At least not perfectly...or even near perfectly really. I'm an IEI but I don't 100% relate to Fe-IEI or Ni-IEI...I see aspects of myself in both...Is there a reason for this? Or am I just a weirdo?
Neither subtype fits me...
At least not perfectly...or even near perfectly really. I'm an IEI but I don't 100% relate to Fe-IEI or Ni-IEI...I see aspects of myself in both...Is there a reason for this? Or am I just a weirdo?
Which parts of the descriptions do you relate to, and which don't you relate to?
Quaero Veritas.
for fe-iei this:
Loves to be in the centre of attention and dramatize proceedings, possesses a sense of humour.
If they see negative emotions in the people around them, they will try to arrange things so that people will calm down.
They easily manipulate by intonation and voice
dress with taste.
for ni-iei this:
they seem calm, dreamy, and contemplative
Their line of behaviour is frequently passive.
They live in the world of illusions, and they attempt to avoid negative emotions.
I'm probably fe-subtype...even though there are parts in the description of it that don't fit for me...like "talent towards persuasion: states requests in such a manner that it is difficult to refuse them" or "Are coquettish, enticing, etc"...
the IEI subtypes are pretty easy to see.
Ni subtype is a hippy with deep thoughts, stare at you directly and keep staring, are very immobile. talk slow.
Fe subtype is clown and funny, but good at being funny, the Ni subtypes tries but fails in that perspective. Fe subtype is more mobile, more hardworking.
and then ofcourse you have the usual definition of subtype, Ni talks to themselve and let others listen along, Fe makes more deliberate contact, more intrusive.
It will take time. The descriptions are just a first step. You have to meet a lot of people in real life and interact with them with subtypes in mind, then you see with your own eyes what the descriptions are talking about. Try comparing yourself with other IEIs and see where you fit in.Originally Posted by sar
At least not perfectly...or even near perfectly really. I'm an IEI but I don't 100% relate to Fe-IEI or Ni-IEI...I see aspects of myself in both...Is there a reason for this? Or am I just a weirdo?
Well saidIn short, yes.I don't relate to any of this, except perhaps the common tendency toward avoidance. I do avoid or put off what I find unpleasant. As well, when I was younger, I was considerably more withdrawn, but never really a "joiner". If a group of friends were doing something I didn't want to do, I'd generally beg off. In fact, I'd never really experienced peer pressure in any significant amounts. Therefore, I never drank before college, never took up smoking, and never engaged in any illegal drug use.
....
I've always tended toward dramatic (some would call it melodrama). I can be very volatile and willful, but also very clearly consider myself predominantly an introvert, first and foremost, as my primary tendency is strongly internal self-reference. I'm much more social than I ever used to be, but I still guard my private time very zealously. Solitude often feels like my "natural" state.
Does it seem that the -subtype might be more noticeably closed off, generally quieter, more compliant and have more of a tendency toward "spaciness" than the -
subtype...?
The Ni subtype essentially corresponds to a more introverted IEI personality. As such both of its introverted functions will be stronger, Ni and Ti. Ti is an introverted judging functions that helps you formulate your inner judgements aka it helps you determine where you stand. It is your inner "I" voice. Thus the Ni subtype of IEI tends to be more individualistic, more opinionated, and less likely to go along with everybody else just to preserve friendly relations. It will also have less issues saying "no" and entering conflict if needed. Since Ti is mobilizing function may sometimes even seek out conflict to the point of acting as if a crusader for truth or some system.
This subtype will also have weaker Se and be less adaptable in conversation, more physically clumsy, more fearful and prone to anxiety and insomnia, lack in initiative more compared to Fe subtype. It will get tired faster from interacting with the physical world.
Intuitive subtype will have very keen intuition though. Being more introverted subtype, this IEI will have to develop very good intuition no way around it, because it doesn't intake data from the outside world very often. So its intuition is constantly has to work off very little input.
It may be overly-sensitive and prone to avoidance. Might feel like reality is too much and be very strongly affected by things that don't really have any effect on other people.
This subtype may come off as more selfish to others because it guards its time (Ni) and knowledge (Ti) very fiercely and with right amount of experience and keen intuition it will put up barriers quickly. Less frequently starts conversations or inquires about others and is less emotionally reactive than Fe subtype. But is also less rigid and more flexible and tolerant of disorder and lack of punctuality, less demanding of others, less imposing, less moralistic. It may act more like a perceiving type and less like judging due to strong Ni and weaker Fe.
yes but you would have had to experience both dual subtypes to know the difference.
I relate to a lot of this. [Anyway, I'd say that's me in the real world. I don't know about the Internet. How I'm perceived on the Internet is probably different, since I probably sometimes misuse/abuse it as if it were a 'journal' or something, since I don't really keep one. Sometimes I go on the Internet when I feel at my worst, which is not really representative of how I usually am (especially in public and with friends, etc.)]
Last edited by HERO; 01-12-2012 at 10:24 PM.
To the OP, I'm almost certain you are an Fe-IEI (Like me!). Ni-IEIs are considerably more withdrawn (I have a couple as friends). They also tend to speak in a bit of a monotone from what I've noticed...or rather, more of a lack of emotion in their voice that the Fe-IEI is more prone to have. Fe-IEIs are a tiny bit more feisty and not necessarily more independent, but might come across as more simply because they generally "show" their personality more than Ni-IEIs do.
Ni-IEI:
Fe-IEI:
I was just thinking about subtypes today! For most of my life, I feel I've been a Ni-IEI but I think that's changed over the past 4 or 5 years. I now consider myself either balanced, or a Fe-sub. This has also been confirmed by knowing two SLEs, one a Se sub and the other a Ti sub and feeling like I fit much better with the Ti subtype. My friendship with the Se-sub was much easier to get started but I didn't feel the same sense of calm and peace that I did with the Ti sub. Duality with the Ti-sub was much more obvious once our friendship was established. The Se-sub wasn't as smooth. That may have to do with other things too. I think we shouldn't underestimate how much instinctual subtypes (from the enneagram: sexual, social and self preservation) play a part in relationships and the "tone" various types take on. In my above example, the Se-sub was sexual-first and the Ti-sub was self press-first. Since I'm self-pres first as well, that could be a big factor in why I felt more comfortable.
(initial response, must read more than the OP later) These are so awesome... Feels like someone's in my head for the first time.
Thats more like it..I fail to see how I walk with an "elegant gait" or "full of grace and poise."
I only walk gracefully when I'm dressed for it, out of divine necessity. otherwise it's just a languid, halfway sleazy glide to the next smoke shop.
4w3-5w6-8w7
....The walk is a "languid glide", but still comes across as elegant, feminine, and sexy (at least to me). That's usually when they're in no rush though, the way they walk normally, from what i've seen of the few INFps (girls only) I remember...
Yeah I go for long walks in the city almost everyday, so there are cars driving past and lots of people I pass, I walk so fast sometimes I catch myself stomping, it's the city atmosphere. In quieter places I do walk with a kind of smooth relaxed movement. I used to drag my feet sometimes tripping, but nowadays I make a conscious effort to lift my feet up a bit higher when taking steps...like horse or deer steps. I can see how that may look sexy/ elegant. I catch people watching my walk, they must like it lol
First off, I just want to say thanks for posting this. I've been a little stressed out with work + life lately (dealing with people and social interaction, agh), and when this happens I start doubting everything, including my type. I start thinking that maybe I'm actually EII or something, and that's why I keep misjudging my relations with others.
The Ni with bad Se description fits me so well I started laughing out loud and woke up my bf. So I'm IEI-Ni after all, whoopee! That feeling of lethargy and lack of energy used to content me, or at least I didn't have a problem with it. I'd pace furiously around the room, angrily discuss this and that with myself, maybe cry a little, and then collapse in a heap feeling like I accomplished something, just because I expended energy. (Even though I didn't actually accomplish anything).
Nowadays, though, maybe because I'm older and have a job and responsibilities, I get angry when I go through that useless routine. I find I would rather engage my "bad" Se in my external relations - in my head this is like "be ready to fight." And this makes me feel good, like bring it world, I've got some tricks up my sleeve too.
This is wayy better than what usually goes on in my head - "omg confrontation, RUN!!" feelings: extreme anxiety, wanting to escape.
In particular, I've used my bad Se to deal with colleagues in the form of attacking emails - this is a good medium to use Se in, because IEIs are good and thorough writers, and when writing there is more time to throw some Ti in there as well. So I'll totally ambush someone who is bothering me, and cc fucking EVERYONE who is higher up in the work hierarchy. This has led to some stunning victories, I got someone demoted
Do I still cross your mind?
Your face still distorts the time
As for walking, I agree it's not elegant but the Filatova(?) description fits pretty well - I walk with a lot purpose and haugtiness but I don't know where I'm going; in fact I'm usually going the wrong way and when I realize this will suddenly turn around and walk the opposite way with the same amount of purpose.
Do I still cross your mind?
Your face still distorts the time
I like to imagine myself walking to this song:
But really I walk like this:
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
I like to walk listening to Juno Reactor and pretend that I am being swept along by a wormhole to the end of the world
This probably results in me looking like a spaced out creep, but do I care?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
The Ni subtype is always the one with the dreadlocks.
Fe subtypes are warm
Ni subtypes are lukewarm
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
How to tell apart IEI-Ni and IEI-Fe?
I have just started to read into subtypes and I wonder, is there any good way of telling apart IEI-Ni and IEI-Fe?
I can relate to both, however I know I become more like a IEI-Fe when healthy and move towards IEI-Ni when unhealthy. Are these just general characteristics of an IEI or am I just picking up on some sort of connection between subtypes and enneagram? I am either a E9 or a E2w1 so it would make sense if I am a Fe subtype, because Ni appears to be more E4 (but could also be E9) to me.
Any thoughts?
Last edited by lunarpine; 01-24-2013 at 12:32 PM.
Regard in terms of evanescence vs. effervescence. Then forget I said anything.
that's actually a good way of putting it.
I get what you mean. So, as an Ni, would you say that IEI-Ni are a lot more serious than IEI-Fe?
Everyone here will tell you there are two subtypes; logically, there's an infinite amount, but three subtypes is reasonable and more accurate than two:
IEI: Fe and Ni are balanced.
IEI: Ni is stronger than Fe (Model A).
IEI: Ni is completely dominant over Fe.
Can you explain how these would manifest?
I can't provide descriptions as I don't believe in subtypes exist to begin with. Subtypes only serve to reify existing type descriptions to the point where the dynamism behind them is lost:
Function strength cannot be measured linearly. Functions can be stronger, more nuanced or less nuanced depending entirely on the context or type of input.
I personally believe the inert/contact subtype theory
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Meged-Ovcharov
I've definitely noticed that IEI-Fe subtypes seem to display more suggestive Se and role Si
(They usually put more time in their appearance, appear more sensual)
While for me, for example, I'm IEI-Ni and I feel a strong HA Ti
and am not completely helpless with Te... even though it definitely gets on my nerves...
.. But especially the Ti. I can be pretty analytical...
I also think this is true, although I don't know how important it is in the grand scheme of things. I have an IEI-Ni friend and I feel she's much stronger in Ni and Ti, while I'm much stronger in Fe an Si (and even Se I guess). I'm completely helpless with Te (like retard level helpless) and she not so much (although also higly impractical).I personally believe the inert/contact subtype theory
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Meged-Ovcharov
I've definitely noticed that IEI-Fe subtypes seem to display more suggestive Se and role Si
(They usually put more time in their appearance, appear more sensual)
While for me, for example, I'm IEI-Ni and I feel a strong HA Ti
and am not completely helpless with Te... even though it definitely gets on my nerves...
.. But especially the Ti. I can be pretty analytical...
I'm 4w3 and she's 4w5 and you would never believe we were the same type by looking at us or superficially talking to us. Completely different vibe. But our test results are eerilly similar. And it was actually a total (though pleasant) surprise when we started (intimately) talking for the first time when we discovered how similar we actually are. If we wouldn't have mutual friends, I dont think we would ever come together.
Well I liked her since I first met her, although I was also kinda intimidated by her (she looked kinda sullen and rude). She told me that at first she thought she would not have anything to talk about with me and she was also intimidated by me
This made me wonder a little bit about how people decide if someone is introverted or extroverted. From an IEI-Ni perspective, an IEI-Fe looks extroverted, even though an IEI is supposed to be an introvert; and I know that from Jung's psychological types, an IEI-Fe might very well not be considered an extrovert or introvert, since the extreme introversion/extroversion, which was what the 8 cognitive functions were supposed to represent, would not be there.
But from a socionics perspective, it seems from Model A that the type relationships then use types that are creative subtypes, since they would not be extreme in introversion or extroversion. Otherwise, as with darya's described relationship with an IEI-Ni, an IEI-Fe and an IEI-Ni probably match more with Mirror relations, just as an example, leaving identical relations as more of a pre-defined mathematical pairing.
But then again, it also means an IEI-Fe could be balanced on Ni and Fe, making them also an EIE-Ni, which further complicates things.
It just seems like this should be considered in the relations.
I dont know if i agree with the last one. IEI-Fe is acts similarly to SEI and EIE-Ni acts similarly to LIE, SEI - LIE are conflictors. I dont think IEI-Fe is really equatable to EIE-Ni in any way except maybe a strength of elements.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
That's right. From my experience, IEI-Fe looks more outgoing than EIE-Ni (the latter being more planned/controlled in making the desired impression). The only sure way of distinguishing IEI-Fe from EIE-Ni is the PoLR.
I think I get what you're saying because you're using the role function to accentuate differences in types; and this is the standard for Model A, but it's not strictly that simple in reality. For example, for an EIE to come off similar to an LIE, they'd have to subdue their Fe, which could be made easier by using Ni because it would also allow them to tap into Ti, giving a psychological base for using Te in place of Fe. But this still requires a conscious effort to do something that they are not naturally inclined to, e.g. by having to subdue Fe, and would actually make them much more introverted and more like an ILI than an LIE. But it's semantics then if you are saying that an EIE-Ni that is matured with their superego is going to appear more like an LIE-Ni that is also matured with their superego; because they would be considered psychologically well-adjusted people and would not present the extremes of their ego functions. An EIE-Ni then is quite different than an LIE-Te.
But the following illustrates what I was getting at, if you didn't know what I meant or wanted to understand what I was saying:
Let's say you want to type someone and you can agree that they are Ni and Fe, but you can't decide whether extrovert or introvert fits them. If they're an extrovert, you could make the argument that they like to put a little thought into what's going on before actively doing anything, which is somewhat contrary to the extreme of extroversion. If they're an introvert, you could also make the argument that they don't like to sit back and think about what's going on for too long, preferring to get actively involved, which also is somewhat contrary to the extreme of introversion.
That said, so maybe this someone fits IEI-Fe and EIE-Ni, though neither one seems to fit perfectly, as both types seem to represent aspects that this person has and choosing one ignores the aspects of the other. So let's call this person Introtim-Extrotim. Then from the perspective of an IEI-Ni, whom sees both the Ni and the Fe in Introtim-Extrotim, it may be and is (in this case) concluded that Introtim-Extrotim is an extrovert because IEI-Ni is much more introverted than they are. So IEI-Ni says Introtim-Extrotim is EIE. And then from the perspective of an EIE-Fe, whom also sees both the Ni and Fe in Introtim-Extrotim, it may be and is (in this case) concluded that Introtim-Extrotim is an introvert because EIE-Fe is much more extroverted than they are. Now we have two different subtypes of the same type (IEI) reaching a different conclusion about whether Introtim-Extrotim is an extrovert or an introvert.
And so from Introtim-Extrotim's perspective, the EIE-Fe is like an extroverted form of them-self and the IEI-Ni is also like an introverted form of them-self. Then from the perspective of Introtim-Extrotim, the IEI-Ni and EIE-Fe are not exactly identicals, but maybe a more subtle Mirror relationship of different extremes. And Introtim-Extrotim then finds that EIE-Ni and IEI-Fe match better with the identical relationship because their extroversion and introversion are much more in line with Introtim-Extrotim's, even if arguably nuanced in different ways.
So now one could answer the question - Is Introtim-Extrotim an extrovert or an introvert?
When you say that they look more outgoing, are yous aying taht EIE's are really more outgoing?
I don't think that an extroverted function as base has to make someone extroverted.
The problem is in the definitions of "outgoing" and "extroversion". The two words don't necessarily mean the same thing.
I think EIEs are more extroverted in the sense that their motivations are geared more towards the study of people and the creation of emotional impact. With Ni-creating, however, EIEs choose their moments for maximal effect. They are far more planned than IEIs, and aren't as good at "going with the flow".
Rationality/irrationality also plays a part. IEIs are (or look, depending on your definition) more outgoing because they base their activities from wants and desires rather than shoulds. An EIE may decline to go to a party if they think it isn't useful to them. Making the best use of time is so important to an EIE, so if they feel they can use that time more effectively, they will; unless they feel obliged to go somewhere.
I see it as like this,Examples of celebrities,
anectodes,
anything's welcome
When an IEI is in a new environment then they use their input function Ni more to gather information, and they appear quieter, IEI-Ni
When an IEI is comfortable that they've learned their environment they can switch to their extraverted function IEI-Fe and appear more "EIE" ish.
Most people are a balance of the two and make slight adjustments when required, if someone is just a mega IEI-Fe then essentially they appear showing off but little new information is absorbed about the changing environment.
Basically taking in lost of new info Ni subtype, comfortable they can get buy and familiar enough can express more Fe.
I imagine that Fe would be much more subtle and muted in the Ni subtype and would be more inclined to brooding over their own thoughts and feelings, with a tendency toward intellectualizing. Also, I think they would be more likely to appear more T than F upon first impressions than the Fe subtype.
yeah basically.
Ni subtype can look more logical at first however when we get talking and they laugh at my stupid jokes I realize we are like the same.
on the other hand Ni subtype has maybe slightly more of a tendency to get lost in Ni ideas where their philosophies are more removed from reality and while they are smart some of the things they say just don't empirically hold up. more of a tendency to create closed systems via Ti-seeking that only work internally, not connected anymore to what they are describing.
that's my impression
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