Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 114

Thread: Boundaries and Power

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default Boundaries and Power

    In my observation, people who want their boundaries observed just want to be in power and they don't really know how to relate to someone in their space except for on their terms which translates into narcissism....Eliza, I think you were right.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  2. #2
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    286 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ugh. No.

  3. #3
    PlacentaCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    TIM
    ILI 5w6
    Posts
    72
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    That is not a very logical correlation. People who have boundaries, are typically healthy individuals with a strong sense of self. Those with NPD, are completely unaware of their boundaries and other's boundaries because narcissists see other people as extensions of themselves. I have no idea where you are getting your information, but it can't be from any book or article on narcissism.

  4. #4
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PlacentaCake View Post
    That is not a very logical correlation. People who have boundaries, are typically healthy individuals with a strong sense of self. Those with NPD, are completely unaware of their boundaries and other's boundaries because narcissists see other people as extensions of themselves. I have no idea where you are getting your information, but it can't be from any book or article on narcissism.
    Oh yeah... I do think that narcissists see others as extensions of themselves hence they create or strive to create an environment which encloses or shuts out others as they see safe and fitting for them hence returning to the concept that it's about boundaries and power.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-12-2013 at 06:31 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    17,948
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PlacentaCake View Post
    . People who have boundaries, are typically healthy individuals with a strong sense of self.
    Yea.

  6. #6
    chriscorey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    TIM
    ILE-Ni
    Posts
    4,413
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Yea.
    Not exactly. People who have healthy boundaries, can be healthy, since we're trying to state the obvious.
    "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."

  7. #7
    &papu silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,077
    Mentioned
    456 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Oh yeah... I do think that narcissists see others as extensions of themselves hence they create or strive to create an environment which encloses or shuts out others as they see safe and fitting for them hence returning to the concept that it's about boundaries and power.
    Yes, by virtue of not seeing others as separate personalities with a will of their own, they seek to adjoin them resulting in formation of cults of personality where the N is treated like a guru, bestowing his extensive knowledge or insights to his flock. This may be a real cult, but as Sam Vaknin, the author of one of the most well-known books on NPD, has pointed out that with all the proliferation of social networking and online communities these mini-cults now spring up online. (The Cult of the Narcissist.) This 'in-group' preferably gets isolated from the outsides by the N who will use any means possible to depict those who didn't conform to the rule of N's ego in inferior and demeaning light, eject them from the group, distance his followers, play them and set them against people who could have opened their eyes to the truth of what's going on.

    Their followers in the end are misled, lied to, and used as narcissistic supply and fodder to N's ego, and when they finally proverbially get their teeth kicked in by the N and realize that they have been manipulated, they go complaining about it their blogs and forums, how they didn't realize what has been going on and didn't see it coming. Some of them, however, will repeat this if given the chance, because as Vaknin pointed out these sycophantic cohorts get drawn into N's supply circle and continue propping N's ego due to personality issues of their own (weak boundaries, dependent personality, propensity for idealization/idolization, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by PlacentaCake View Post
    That is not a very logical correlation. People who have boundaries, are typically healthy individuals with a strong sense of self. Those with NPD, are completely unaware of their boundaries and other's boundaries because narcissists see other people as extensions of themselves. I have no idea where you are getting your information, but it can't be from any book or article on narcissism.
    She's not doing a very good job of getting her thoughts across, but Ns are usually aware that they cannot extend themselves indefinitely, they eventually run into people who don't agree to play along or who see behind their mask of congeniality, and then Ns often respond by setting up a protective barrier between whoever they managed to attract and 'the outsiders', resulting in creation of personality cult groups (though sometimes it's not a group but only one person that the N separates from their family and friends and locks into himself). That's what Maritsa is trying to get at I think.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    17,948
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    She's not doing a very good job of getting her thoughts across, but Ns are usually aware that they cannot extend themselves indefinitely, they eventually run into people who don't agree to play along or who see behind their mask of congeniality, and then Ns often respond by setting up a protective barrier between whoever they managed to attract and 'the outsiders', resulting in creation of personality cult groups (though sometimes it's not a group but only one person that the N separates from their family and friends and locks into himself). That's what Maritsa is trying to get at I think.
    I'm sure Maritsa is (still) referring to a forum member.

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?
    Read my lips, (in)sane person.

  9. #9
    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    3,226
    Mentioned
    142 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I'm sure Maritsa is (still) referring to a forum member.

    probably. oh yay.
    another thread.







    which mod thinks its a good idea to consoldate her threads into one giant one? hmmmmm? anyone..?

  10. #10
    C-ESI-Se 6w7 sx/sp ashlesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    the center of the universe
    Posts
    15,798
    Mentioned
    909 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    no.

  11. #11
    InvisibleJim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Si vis pacem
    TIM
    para bellum
    Posts
    4,809
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    nope.

  12. #12
    chriscorey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    TIM
    ILE-Ni
    Posts
    4,413
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Maritsa is close, actually. Narcissists can and will use boundaries as a manipulation tactic. It’s just not as cut and dry as she is stating.

    I think you're not doing a very good job of getting your point across @Maritsa
    "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."

  13. #13
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post

    I think you're not doing a very good job of getting your point across @Maritsa
    Se Polr I never am Chris but thank you

    I never can see what things people in general value as the best and proper form of expression that allows them to see what i mean.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  14. #14
    Kim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    TIM
    IEE e7 783 sx so
    Posts
    7,007
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    In my observation, people who want their boundaries observed just want to be in power and they don't really know how to relate to someone in their space except for on their terms which translates into narcissism....Eliza, I think you were right.
    Are you implying that you dont have boundaries? I really doubt that.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  15. #15
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Are you implying that you dont have boundaries? I really doubt that.
    boundaries observed by others in an imposing way.

    I have boundaries...healthy ones.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  16. #16
    Kim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    TIM
    IEE e7 783 sx so
    Posts
    7,007
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    boundaries observed by others in an imposing way.

    I have boundaries...healthy ones.
    Different people need different boundaries.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  17. #17
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Different people need different boundaries.
    really? how long did it take you to reach that conclusion? again: this

    "Narcissists can and will use boundaries as a manipulation tactic. It’s just not as cut and dry as she is stating. "
    Chris
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  18. #18
    Kim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    TIM
    IEE e7 783 sx so
    Posts
    7,007
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    really? how long did it take you to reach that conclusion? again: this

    "Narcissists can and will use boundaries as a manipulation tactic. It’s just not as cut and dry as she is stating. "
    Chris
    Without reference to what these boundaries actually might be, this conversation really is pretty meaningless. When I ask my partner to please not scream in my face I am narcissist? Or is that a healthy boundary? If so, what are unhealthy boundaries?
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  19. #19
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    a
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  20. #20
    PlacentaCake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    TIM
    ILI 5w6
    Posts
    72
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Oh my...

  21. #21
    Reficulris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,028
    Mentioned
    189 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    And despite them being dangerous individuals, the behaviour described in the post above should inspire more sadness than anger.

  22. #22
    InvisibleJim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Si vis pacem
    TIM
    para bellum
    Posts
    4,809
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There are plenty of narcissists on this forum who reject the idea of negotiating solid and sensible boundaries. The mostly yell 'Narcissist!' when challenged.

  23. #23
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    There are plenty of narcissists on this forum who reject the idea of negotiating solid and sensible boundaries. The mostly yell 'Narcissist!' when challenged.
    THANK YOU
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  24. #24
    InvisibleJim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Si vis pacem
    TIM
    para bellum
    Posts
    4,809
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    THANK YOU
    YOU'RE WELCOME

  25. #25
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    YOU'RE WELCOME
    adding to what you said sounds like just an immature person
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  26. #26
    InvisibleJim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Si vis pacem
    TIM
    para bellum
    Posts
    4,809
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    adding to what you said sounds like just an immature person
    I think people know exactly what they are doing. Its just that everyone is the hero in their own story. You need to stop giving people the benefit of the doubt Maritsa.

    People are actually simple but are driven by direct and indirect hopes and fears. They can be remarkably direct when you remove the fluff and magic fairy dust around the edges.

  27. #27
    C-ESI-Se 6w7 sx/sp ashlesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    the center of the universe
    Posts
    15,798
    Mentioned
    909 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    most people know she made this thread about jadae but for some reason people just talk around it and pretend to be oblivious. this is how even though i'm pretty sure she meets the forum definition of harassment per the rules she gets away with it.

  28. #28
    chriscorey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    TIM
    ILE-Ni
    Posts
    4,413
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    most people know she made this thread about jadae but for some reason people just talk around it and pretend to be oblivious. this is how even though i'm pretty sure she meets the forum definition of harassment per the rules she gets away with it.
    That’s not what it looks like to the outside observer. It is rude and a gang mentality that should not be tolerated. If two people have problem with eachother, then it’s personal, and others’ should stay out of it. If one of the people involved is upset by the behavior, then that person alone should take it up with a member of the staff.



    oh dear.
    "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."

  29. #29
    C-ESI-Se 6w7 sx/sp ashlesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    the center of the universe
    Posts
    15,798
    Mentioned
    909 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    i also speak up when i think people are unnecessarily cruel to maritsa sometimes.
    this is how i get burned for having my own opinion about things. whatever "side" you're on, i'm on the opposite, lol.

  30. #30
    chriscorey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    TIM
    ILE-Ni
    Posts
    4,413
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i also speak up when i think people are unnecessarily cruel to maritsa sometimes.
    this is how i get burned for having my own opinion about things. whatever "side" you're on, i'm on the opposite, lol.
    Don't take a side. Scrutinize the behavior.
    "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."

  31. #31
    Esaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    876
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Se Polr I never am Chris but thank you

    I never can see what things people in general value as the best and proper form of expression that allows them to see what i mean.
    Makes no sense that.
    What is usual to Se PoRL is distaste for pomposity and tooting one's own horn, which is all you do.

    Did I just toot my own horn about about not tooting my own horn? Nooooooo....

  32. #32
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Anyway...I have to go back and reread Chris's and Siuntal's posts.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-15-2013 at 04:51 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  33. #33
    retired
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    Se
    Posts
    169
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Interesting.

  34. #34
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    3,527
    Mentioned
    361 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Maritsa, I think @chriscorey is right, you aren't getting your point across very well here. [and chriscorey your article on boundaries is an excellent one. I particularly like the author's point to listen to how you are feeling, and if your discomfort and resentment are heightened, your boundaries are being stepped on].

    Also I agree with some of these things Ann said:
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    But at the same time, being made a mod means being given power/status associated with mods.
    So, wouldn't Wanting to be a mod mean that person Wants the power/status associated with mods?
    An attraction for a Narcissist, for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Personally, I don't care for being labeled as a mod, nor do I want the responsibilities associated with it....
    We are alike in this (or we are look-alike ), because: me, too.


    Maritsa, I think you aren't getting it across well because you have something you really want to say, but you have gotten a lot of feedback from people who don' t like hearing complaints from you about one who may or may not be a forum member here, so you are being very sketchy. But what you write here is too sketchy to understand and doesn't communicate well.

    My suggestion is to give a concrete example, but make it up. A completely fabricated example, something parallel but not identifiable with the actual example in your mind. Then people will have something concrete to respond to, rather than try to figure it out what you are getting at, or imagine its something worse than it is, or misinterpret you and give you an answer to what you are not even asking.

    Maritsa the way I see it is that this has long been a place where you have expressed yourself, its kind of "your" place. As it is to others here. For me, too, in a compartmentalized kind of way. When its long been your go-to place to express important things on your mind, or to seek understanding (or figure outloud) when trying to understand how people in your life think, to have to put that aside with pressing thoughts and questions on your mind seems like too much to ask, especially when you have just experienced loss already. To not talk about the things that you would normally talk about here must seem like being asked not to talk about the elephant in the living room.

    It reminds me of something that happened to me while living with my soon-to-be-ex during the awful divorce and custody battle. This is a side-track from my point so I will color it so it can be skimmed over for those who don't like so many words:

    During this time we were invited to the home of a couple that had been our friends for years, and the guy was a former "accountability buddy" in "Promise Keepers" (men get together in giant stadiums and talk and cheer and sing and exhort each other about keeping their vows and then they are "accountable" to each other back in real life)...

    So Ex had made his boundaries clear: There was to be "NO talk and NO questions about the divorce!" That boundary made clear, we went off, with our young son, as a "couple" who was not a couple at all. It was middle of a long cold winter in a long cold divorce, so a change just to get out. I was in major shell shock at the time about the lies I was dealing with in the custody battle, and these were the people I woudl normally talk to, as they were the defenders of the institute of marriage, but we had to have a polite meal as if there was no elephant in the living room.

    My ESE ex gave plenty of his ""Aren't I wonderful" kind of talks and they all agreed. He is charming and puts others at ease who are more reticent and don't want to carry a dinner conversation. Folks are happy to have a conversation focused on the charming and entertaining Narcisisst (and a hurting shell-shocked person - not so much!). I almost made it through the whole sickeningly polite evening, and we were almost done with dessert, and then the host complimented my ex on how much he had gotten into shape these recent months, and that was it for me. When Ex started to pontificate on his workouts, I butt in. "Yes, he and Mrs.C talked to each other every single day about how their workouts were going! They couldn't wait to show each other their progress on their secret weekend trysts, while their spouses, whom they lied to, stayed home to take care of their families!"

    Well, you know, that stopped everyone in their tracks, and judging annoyance turned on me. Such a pleasant evening, such entertaining conversation, and I had to go and ruin it! They weren't happy about me at all. I was told how impolite and "inappropriate" my comment was. Well, I didn't appreciate their response to me, but I liked it a whole lot better not pretending there was no elephant in the living room.


    But people don't want to know about your problems. They just want to get along with everyone in an easy, comfortable way, and they sure don't want to be in a position to take sides, and they don't want to hear your expressing yours. Surely it must be both your faults so please don't bother them with the details and please don't discomfort them by letting your angst show!

    But in real life, there is angst sometimes. I think people should just accept it from other people.

    What is worse than saying "I don't want to hear your angst" is to make judgement one not is able to, especially a cruel one, like @Vois did ("intrusively insane").

    In my experience, the average person just wants to have nice conversation and to not get too into anyone's real business and so will enjoy the Narcissist the most. Narcissists know how to stay comfortably in the spotlight with the world, because nothing matters more to them than that, and they are practiced at staying there. They have no angst because they have no conscience, since they are actually empty inside (you have to understand Narcissism to understand that statement).


    As to Narcissism, I am glad some people are aware of it here, because a lot of people aren't. @siuntal and @PlacentaCake wrote about it intelligently here. It is a good thing to learn about, Maritsa, because there are a lot of seemingly-normal people out there who are Narcissists and live in a completely different reality, alongside us. It takes a bit of time to learn about though.

    So anyway, Maritsa, Narcissism can definitely be a reason for why you are shell-shocked after a breakup. It explains inconsistencies, like why someone could pledge their love and fidelity and then be opposite in action, or why someone suddenly withdraws affection (with a Narcissist, that woudl be because their affection was never sincere in the first place. It was just a big empty act of playing a role of being in a state of affection. And Narcissists are excellent actors. Their heart was never in it, never mind their words or actions otherwise, and role-playing got boring. Or likely, just impossibly strenuous, if you were sincere and they weren't. The sudden ending would leave you confused, and scrambling to understand what the heck happened. But if your affection was genuine and theirs was role-playing, of course they can and will take off and leave in the "middle" of things, because they were never in a thing, even though it sure seemed like it. Things just weren't what they seemed.

    I bolded that part above in order to clarify: Maritsa did not tell me she experienced any of these things. I know NOTHING, not a single detail, about her relationship with any guy, whether he was on this forum or not. I only know what she has shared on this forum, and not even all that since I have not read all threads here. I was away and/or not reading here for almost 2 months. Besides not knowing a thing about who seems to be the recent breakup person, I have read only a handful of his posts and I make no judgement on him (and I have no info!).

    So I only know that she still has some hurt and confusion over a past breakup, and I have no specific info on that either. But I did PM Maritsa recently, because I see in her a familiar "shell-shock after a breakup" thing, that continual questioning since it didn't make sense, that one has after a break up with a Narcissist, and I asked her if she knew about Narcissism, that it might be something to look up in order to understand if that was a factor. That explains the reference to me in the OP.

    But Narcissism is not a subject one can understand very quickly...
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 10-16-2013 at 07:05 PM.

  35. #35
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    So anyway, Maritsa, Narcissism can definitely be a reason for why you are shell-shocked after a breakup. It explains inconsistencies, like why someone could pledge their love and fidelity and then be opposite in action, or why someone suddenly withdraws affection (with a Narcissist, that woudl be because their affection was never sincere in the first place. It was just a big empty act of playing a role of being in a state of affection. And Narcissists are excellent actors. Their heart was never in it, never mind their words or actions otherwise, and role-playing got boring. Or likely, just impossibly strenuous, if you were sincere and they weren't. The sudden ending would leave you confused, and scrambling to understand what the heck happened. But if your affection was genuine and theirs was role-playing, of course they can and will take off and leave in the "middle" of things, because they were never in a thing, even though it sure seemed like it. Things just weren't what they seemed.
    yeah
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  36. #36
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    3,527
    Mentioned
    361 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    yeah
    And a guy who behaves thus is not necessarily a full-fledged Narcissist (though could very well be). Narcissism is a major psychological disorder, like Bi-Polar, Borderline, for example, and that person lives in completely different reality, right alongside us. Narcissists, unlike those with other major psychological disorders, usually fit in well in society and are successful and often well-liked.

    However, all of us have narcissist traits and to have no narcissist traits puts ones ability to survive in society at stake. We all need a bit of these traits, I understand. And we also live in a society that panders and nurtures narcissists (and we as a society are full of the dysfunction and dis-connections that cause the disorder, so its all sad).

    But anyone who would act out these traits in a relationship (and as I stated in the previous post, I am not referring to any particular person as I have no idea what you have been through), if he is not a Narcissist, but only acting like one, has a serious moral problem, and you don't want anyone like that in your life.

    Another thing I see is that from what you have posted elsewhere, you sound like you had a normal and supportive family, and lots of times when you come from that you expect others have too, and you expect them to think like you, and you are overly sincere and overly trusting that people are who they say they are. In this you become a perfect Narcissist magnet. And until you learn to recognize them, you will continue to draw them to you.

    Narcissists recognize in you one who will trustingly play along with whatever role they want to slip in to to get what they want from you, because you will never suspect them of role-playing, as you don't do that, and neither does anyone in your family. Your ignorance, stemming from a normal and loving background, make you trusting, gullible, and easy to manipulate. Until you get educated.

    So if my NF conjectures and leaps here about what you have experienced are correct, then: Congratulations on your education! Rejoice - you have hit the jackpot! How blessed you are to have learned what you have now, rather than marry one and bear children with one and then learn it! Realize your great fortune!

    God is Merciful. He has plans for your good.

  37. #37
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    And a guy who behaves thus is not necessarily a full-fledged Narcissist (though could very well be). Narcissism is a major psychological disorder, like Bi-Polar, Borderline, for example, and that person lives in completely different reality, right alongside us. Narcissists, unlike those with other major psychological disorders, usually fit in well in society and are successful and often well-liked.

    However, all of us have narcissist traits and to have no narcissist traits puts ones ability to survive in society at stake. We all need a bit of these traits, I understand. And we also live in a society that panders and nurtures narcissists (and we as a society are full of the dysfunction and dis-connections that cause the disorder, so its all sad).

    But anyone who would act out these traits in a relationship (and as I stated in the previous post, I am not referring to any particular person as I have no idea what you have been through), if he is not a Narcissist, but only acting like one, has a serious moral problem, and you don't want anyone like that in your life.

    Another thing I see is that from what you have posted elsewhere, you sound like you had a normal and supportive family, and lots of times when you come from that you expect others have too, and you expect them to think like you, and you are overly sincere and overly trusting that people are who they say they are. In this you become a perfect Narcissist magnet. And until you learn to recognize them, you will continue to draw them to you.

    Narcissists recognize in you one who will trustingly play along with whatever role they want to slip in to to get what they want from you, because you will never suspect them of role-playing, as you don't do that, and neither does anyone in your family. Your ignorance, stemming from a normal and loving background, make you trusting, gullible, and easy to manipulate. Until you get educated.

    So if my NF conjectures and leaps here about what you have experienced are correct, then: Congratulations on your education! Rejoice - you have hit the jackpot! How blessed you are to have learned what you have now, rather than marry one and bear children with one and then learn it! Realize your great fortune!

    God is Merciful. He has plans for your good.


    maybe one day I'll get enough sense and stop helping anyone except my family and just quit this place.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  38. #38
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,161
    Mentioned
    722 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    People should move on, and stop picking at scabs. This thread is closing.

  39. #39
    Kim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    TIM
    IEE e7 783 sx so
    Posts
    7,007
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    So anyway, Maritsa, Narcissism can definitely be a reason for why you are shell-shocked after a breakup. It explains inconsistencies, like why someone could pledge their love and fidelity and then be opposite in action, or why someone suddenly withdraws affection
    Sometimes relationships end because people are not compatible, not because of personality disorders, mental illnesses, horrible character traits, and all the rest of it. Sometimes it just doesn't work out because personalities clash, histories are too different, and people just can't reconcile differing needs. We each have a responsibility to look after ourselves and our own needs, so how can I blame a person for trying to protect themselves from hurt and pain by setting boundaries? Either we can work out a way to be together or we can't and when we can't, it doesn't necessarily make either of us a horrible person with a host of disorders.
    Last edited by Kim; 10-16-2013 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Added relevant quote
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  40. #40
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Sometimes relationships end because people are not compatible, not because of personality disorders, mental illnesses, horrible character traits, and all the rest of it. Sometimes it just doesn't work out because personalities clash, histories are too different, and people just can't reconcile differing needs. We each have a responsibility to look after ourselves and our own needs, so how can I blame a person for trying to protect themselves from hurt and pain by setting boundaries? Either we can work out a way to be together or we can't and when we can't, it doesn't necessarily make either of us a horrible person with a host of disorders.
    If you saw me and you, being a normal human being, observed that I'm frail (can't lift more than 3lbs), that I have chicken arms with no muscles on them and I did something to you and suddenly you claimed me to have hurt you way more than the actual event, exaggerating it and making yourself out to be the victim of this great huge tragedy, wouldn't that be kind of wrong?

    You went around wailing that you were somehow aggressively strangled by me, that excessive v verbal response is that of a narcissist who by the way said once "you're so delicate, I'm afraid I will crush you."

    You know what I don't need to go into this again it's just that people are so mean around here and they can't even keep perspective of the reality and people who know the reality won't be truthful and honest.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •