EII-SEE Supervision In Real Life (INFj and ESFp)

[Kim]

So can someone give me some examples of SeFi supervising the Se of a EII? Like not in a forum argument, but in real life? I have what I think is an example, but I would like to see if I am off base before I post it. For the record, the only active SEEs I can think of on the forum are Woof Woof and JWC3.

@dolphin is also SEE.

[Iris]

@dolphin is also SEE.

Oh my gosh, right! Sorry, Dolphin.

[willekeurig]

I can totally relate to the having so many alternative possibilities in your mind that choosing "the best one" and ignoring the others can be tough. It depends on the matter of course, if I'm familiar with the topic I can usually do that easily and it's something I've consciously worked on a lot, but especially in unfamiliar situations and with new people choosing a course for action when all options seem balanced can be harrrrrrd.

[willekeurig]

The thing is is that Si ppl will appreciate that. Your hesitancy and willingness to consider so many things is like manna from above to an ESTj with a stick up their ass. You are literally their heavenly light.

Yeah, I guess there are two sides to each coin. It's rather comforting, isn't it?

It's really weird though, how something something I consider to be one of my greatest and most painful weaknesses can be appreciated and even needed by someone else. Having lived with critical Betas for so many years this still takes me by surprise every time. LSEs are so cute.

[Absurd]

Having lived with critical Betas for so many years this still takes me by surprise every time. LSEs are so cute.

I'm surprised no one got hurt.

[willekeurig]

I'm surprised no one got hurt.

Oh, we all did. I hope not permanently, but it wasn't very nice for anyone of us, that's for sure.

[Iris]

Ann is right that INFjs have better Ni than ESFps. The interaction works in a sense if the INFj in question is willing to give me the reigns a bit in regards to decision making while still remaining intellectually dominant. (This is the way it would go with an Ni person. They are usually very happy to let me make most of the decisions while still giving me a constant stream of feedback of what would make life easier.)

I've had INFjs go intellectually dominant on me a few times and its like this weird flip of supervision. It is uncomfortable but it reminds me to respect them more.

I have seen this happen with the two I described above. The SEE gets in a hurry when she is talking and uses the wrong words sometimes. Like one time she said prostate instead of prostrate. Some of them have been hilarious and/or embarrassing. The EII always corrects her word errors and the SEE says, oh thanks, and keeps right on talking. It never bothers her. I think she is grateful for the instruction.

However, the FiNe doesn't have to feel "supervised". Someone is offering them advice which they can accept or reject. The SeFi is also providing information to the NiFe which could alter the NiFe's understanding, and help them be better at what they are trying to do. Especially considering that the Si of SeFi is stronger than the Si of FiNe. So there's even more info the FiNe can incorporate.

@anndelise ^ This is exactly right in my opinion. The EII in my example above always has this perpetual big pile of clean laundry that she is trying to perfectly fold and find spots to bleach. The SEE teases her and says oh EII, do you want me to help you fold your laundry? Which we all know the pile would be done in about 5 minutes because the SEE doesn't mess around with stuff like that. The EII can laugh at herself for being so obsessive about it. But she wants to spend the time on it so she does. I think the way they talk to each other make the difference. They are always respectful and even teasing is always gentle. They have been friends for about 20 years. If they had to live together they would probably get on each other's nerves. But they frequently work together on projects and get along fine. They know which roles each fills best and they divide the work and don't bug each other. (I couldn't quite figure out how to quote you with your name after quoting dolphin in this post.)

[Eliza Thomason]

... The EII in my example above always has this perpetual big pile of clean laundry that she is trying to perfectly fold and find spots to bleach. The SEE teases her and says oh EII, do you want me to help you fold your laundry? Which we all know the pile would be done in about 5 minutes because the SEE doesn't mess around with stuff like that. The EII can laugh at herself for being so obsessive about it. But she wants to spend the time on it so she does. I think the way they talk to each other make the difference. They are always respectful and even teasing is always gentle. They have been friends for about 20 years. If they had to live together they would probably get on each other's nerves. But they frequently work together on projects and get along fine. They know which roles each fills best and they divide the work and don't bug each other. (I couldn't quite figure out how to quote you with your name after quoting dolphin in this post.)

Great story, Iris. This thread is very helpful. Nice friendship they have, and what you've shared is encouraging to me - because a friend I have made in the past recent years is my INTJ Supervisor. I admire her a lot. We met because we have our faith in common, but her past and ongoing accomplishments in life are a lot more stellar than mine (or most people's). When I realized she was my Supervisor, I got worried. Wondering if the ball was going to drop some day when she suddenly got completely exasperated by me. Yet we see none of that now. But like you say with the friendship you shared, its not a live-together thing.

In that friendship, is SEE more the leader, EII the helper? Because I have seen my INTJ friendship like that from the very beginning I see her as the leader. In fact, as I had not yet met the man I fell in love with so unexpectedly, and was determined to be open to if the Lord wanted me to stay single, I said to her (whose faith I really admired), who is widowed: "Maybe someday we'll start a religious order, and you can be our Mother Superior!" (This was before I knew of the Supervisor thing. But she knows where she is going in her life, has a plan, so she said probably not to that. And my life has a different direction now). She has many projects, and I want to help her with them. (my past two years have been full, but things should begine to let up). Like, I'd like to be receptionist at events she organizes, fielding phone calls and showing people what to do, or beforehand stuff envelopes for her, etc. I never think of her as helping me with projects. ...So I wonder whose projects this pair works on?

[Iris]

Great story, Iris. This thread is very helpful. Nice friendship they have, and what you've shared is encouraging to me - because a friend I have made in the past recent years is my INTJ Supervisor. I admire her a lot. We met because we have our faith in common, but her past and ongoing accomplishments in life are a lot more stellar than mine (or most people's). When I realized she was my Supervisor, I got worried. Wondering if the ball was going to drop some day when she suddenly got completely exasperated by me. Yet we see none of that now. But like you say with the friendship you shared, its not a live-together thing.

In that friendship, is SEE more the leader, EII the helper? Because I have seen my INTJ friendship like that from the very beginning I see her as the leader. In fact, as I had not yet met the man I fell in love with so unexpectedly, and was determined to be open to if the Lord wanted me to stay single, I said to her (whose faith I really admired), who is widowed: "Maybe someday we'll start a religious order, and you can be our Mother Superior!" (This was before I knew of the Supervisor thing. But she knows where she is going in her life, has a plan, so she said probably not to that. And my life has a different direction now). She has many projects, and I want to help her with them. (my past two years have been full, but things should begine to let up). Like, I'd like to be receptionist at events she organizes, fielding phone calls and showing people what to do, or beforehand stuff envelopes for her, etc. I never think of her as helping me with projects. ...So I wonder whose projects this pair works on?

In that friendship, they are equal in terms of contribution. The EII is the brains and the SEE is the brawn, sort of. The SEE says, let's do something. The EII comes up with several good ideas. The SEE grabs the good ideas and runs with them, dragging the EII along with her. The SEE appreciates the EII pointing out potential obstacles ahead of them. The EII likes the drive and efficiency of the SEE. The SEE likes the EII's intellect - they have very interesting conversations. So together, they accomplish a lot and have fun and have great discussions. Sometimes the SEE will complain to me that the EII wastes too much time on Si stuff. (She usually has enough tact not to say it to the EII.) The EII probably occasionally feels a little rushed by the SEE and perhaps a little miffed when her painstaking Si creations are not fully appreciated by the SEE. But she never complains to me about that because that is not her style. Another reason the SEE has a lot of respect for the EII is that the EII spends a lot of time researching and finding the best of everything (and the SEE loves the best of everything, duh.) So they together they go have the best coffee, see the best movies, etc. Just because Si is the SEE's ignoring function doesn't mean that she can't tell the difference between good coffee and bad coffee. If the SEE needs a doctor, she calls the EII to get some names, because the EII has a long list of carefully chosen favorites. If they lived together, and the SEE was constantly telling the EII how to clean her house faster and not to waste so much time on cooking and other projects, the EII might get a little pissed off. So I think supervision is not always going to be a problem, given the working conditions. In your situation, if you are helping the LII at some event, they you will want to try a little harder to get every detail just the way she wants it. Your natural Fe as your demonstrative function will probably please the LII since that is her dual seeking function. Your dual seeking function and her mobilizing function are both Si so that could be an area where she helps you.