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INTjs and the MBTI (Myers-Briggs)
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Last edited by soggy-flakes; 08-08-2009 at 09:32 AM.
I could be either INTP or INTJ, but I like INTJ better, and I more often score as INTJ.
INTJ just has a little more of that whoopass feel to it, I don't know. The aspect of confidence is what drew it to me at first, because I wasn't reseved out of fear anymore, as in my youth. I may not be socially inclined anyways, but it is not because I am "afraid" of socializing, or am underconfident.
But the way INTP profiles talk about things in terms of thinking, and changing the world, and people and things being raw materials (a kiersey profile, I believe), that fits well with me.
I suppose the difference for me is that I'd rather apply what I learn, as opposed to just learning facts. I am someone who would rather use science and technology to do something, as opposed to just study mathmatical formulas.
They don't use the same functions, at least in my opinion. MBTI "Ti" isn't the same as SocionicsHowever, if you go by functions, I definitely fit Myers-Briggs INTP more because they are TiNe., in my opinion. That is how it feels to me. A lot of people try to correlate INTP to INTj because of this, but I just don't see it. wym123, who I respected a lot, tried to do the same thing, but I think he might have been an ISTj as opposed to INTj or INTp. But he spent a lot of time trying to 'prove' that INTP was, literally, INTj. (If am wrong correct me, because I paid only a little attention to those threads. So I might be completely false). Whatever the case, there has never been the same quest for INTJ-->INTp, so it seems kind of foolish to try to correlate the types like that.
eh, there's more, but this is enough for now
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I actually scored as an INTJ in the Myers-Briggs test. I took the test in the 10th grade in high school and got an INTJ. I never really thought much of it beyond the title - the Mastermind - which suited my ego just fine. I retook the test once I entered college to see if I had changed; I didn't. I then heard about Socionics. At first it seemed that MBTI and Socionics were interchangeable, but once I read more on Socionics, I decided to retest myself once more. I turned out as an INTj. Getting the "same" result didn't do much to convince me that they were different until I began reading the different approaches and roles of the functions. Although there are numerous ambiguities as to the different functions, it still made more sense to me than the MBTI.
However, there are many aspects of the MBTI description that still applies to me, such as the INTJ criteria to everything: "Does it work?" I am uncertain, however, if that criteria is still part of the Socionics' INTj or if it belongs to the ENTj or INTp.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
MBTI INTJ = Socionics INTp Te subtype.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I score INTJ on MBTI every time I've ever taken it and I've score INTj on socionics too.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
INTP in MBTI, INTj in Socionics.
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
No, I disagree with this. Not necessarily.Originally Posted by FDG
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Just curious, why do you always say that you can't be a J in MBTI?
Question for you too: is that you in your avatar?
"Just curious, why do you always say that you can't be a J in MBTI?"
Because I don't have the stereotypically Jish traits(which are what make one as such.)
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
Oh, and I'm also a total INTP.
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
No, the girl in my avatar is actually a famous fashion model named Gemma Ward. She has some pretty interesting/unusual facial features, kind of looks like an alien or doll. Just look her upQuestion for you too: is that you in your avatar?yeah she creeped me out at first.
Umm... that's obvious, but I meant more specifically... for example, even in MBTI, INTJs are described as not entirely controlling, or even that organized. The "I" and the "N" are said to weaken those qualities.
Plus, you were outright appaled by the MBTI Ti description I sent you that time. What if some other MBTI INTPs relate to that and you don't? Or do you think it's total bullshit and neither a socionic INTP or INTJ would relate it (as in, what Thompson was describing was specifically
@ Soggyflakes
I am glad that someone brought this up. I am also very curious about what people think about this.Okay, I know this has probably been discussed to death but I'm curious what you socionics INTjs score on the Myers-Briggs. Are you a Myers-Briggs INTJ as well? Or a Myers-Briggs INTP? Or do you flip-flop back and forth alot?
Me too. In the tests I always get an almost 50/50 result between J and P (but now there is no point in taking those tests for me anymore, since I know how every answer to every question will affect my test result).As for myself, I often flip flop back and forth between INTJ and INTP on the Myers-Briggs.
But you are wrong about this, as UDP points out. A Myers-Briggs INTP is not a TiNe. It is called a TiNe, but that is rather irrelevant. If you by "TiNe" want to refer to the same way of thinking as the expression "However, if you go by functions, I definitely fit Myers-Briggs INTP more because they are TiNe." denotes, then it is the Myers-Briggs INTJ who is a TiNe and a Myers-Briggs INTP who is a NiTe. That's my current understanding of this, anyway.
@ UDP
That little detail in Keirsey's INTP profile has always irritated me, because it is misleading and almost contradicts some other things he says about INTPs. Also, on his website he has a passage from Ayn Rand's book The Fountainhead describing the attitude of the character Howard Roark. That passage is put in the INTP profile, but Howard Roark is probably an INTj not an INTp. I am not 100 % sure about that, but it is my impression after having read the novel, and Ayn Rand was herself not an INTP/INTp but probably an INTJ/INTj. Her main characters are much more like "the other type" than they are like me, which means that if I am an INTp they are INTjs. At least we can agree that they are more like MBTI INTJs than MBTI INTPs.But the way INTP profiles talk about things in terms of thinking, and changing the world, and people and things being raw materials (a kiersey profile, I believe), that fits well with me.
It is clear that both Keirsey and MBTI consider the INTJs to be the ones who want to do the things you mention here:
The INTPs are more interested in just understanding the world, to know as much as possible about it. They are less interested in applying what they learn. That is also clear from Keirsey's and MBTI's descriptions of INTPs.I suppose the difference for me is that I'd rather apply what I learn, as opposed to just learning facts. I am someone who would rather use science and technology to do something, as opposed to just study mathmatical formulas.
@ Logos
I have always felt that that aspect of the MBTI descriptions does not apply to me very well. But I can see that it probably applies to INTJs. And since I believe that I am an INTp I don't think that it should be a part of the socionic descriptions of INTps. It should be more relevant in the ENTj and INTj descriptions.However, there are many aspects of the MBTI description that still applies to me, such as the INTJ criteria to everything: "Does it work?" I am uncertain, however, if that criteria is still part of the Socionics' INTj or if it belongs to the ENTj or INTp.
Slightly off topic, but please tell me that there are other INTjs that hate Ayn Rand and her characters as much as I do out there.Also, on his website he has a passage from Ayn Rand's book The Fountainhead describing the attitude of the character Howard Roark. That passage is put in the INTP profile, but Howard Roark is probably an INTj not an INTp. I am not 100 % sure about that, but it is my impression after having read the novel, and Ayn Rand was herself not an INTP/INTp but probably an INTJ/INTj. Her main characters are much more like "the other type" than they are like me, which means that if I am an INTp they are INTjs. At least we can agree that they are more like MBTI INTJs than MBTI INTPs.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
*Timidly raises hand*
Am I the only INTj that not only dislikes math but is horrible at it too?
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
1) Abhoring learning facts is not type related, apparently.
2) Ayn Rand was probably ISTJ.
3) "Does it work" is probablly a Sensing quality.
4) It can't be denied that often times the functions are described VASTLY different between socionics-MBTI (which is why I brought up the Thompson thing).
5) MBTI types mostly are put together through a sort of buffet-style typing.
Yes, I believe so, because I try use that INTJ criterion a lot. In fact, when I forget about it that is when I am more dissapointed...
Could be. I forget about it.... so perhaps I try to remember it and employ it because it is an S type tecnhique that can balance out things. I don't really know, though, whether it is S or N. It probably isn't3) "Does it work" is probablly a Sensing quality.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I don't think so. Looking back, my Economics teacher was probably an INTJ. He stayed away from math for some reason. My physics teacher was without a doubt ISTJ, and he wasn't good with math either.*Timidly raises hand*
Am I the only INTj that not only dislikes math but is horrible at it too?
Oyburger!*Timidly raises hand*
Am I the only INTj that not only dislikes math but is horrible at it too?
I was never really drawn to math, save for recently, which I might be able to 'use it' for my purposes.
I never read Ayn Rand, as I really don't like reading fictional books -- I'd rather read books that I can use. I play fictional videogames now and then - fantasy and what not, and like star trek and things like that. But reading fictional books in general just doesn't work with me.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I think I have a fear of math.
Starting in first grade I would freeze up when learning math and I've spent my whole life avoiding it. I really hate this because avoiding math closed off a lot of avenues for me in school. I panic when I'm confronted with math, which makes me feel stupid, which makes me frustrated, which makes me angry.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
oyburger, this makes me curious; what does the INTJI think I have a fear of math
Starting in first grade I would freeze up when learning math and I've spent my whole life avoiding it. I really hate this because avoiding math closed off a lot of avenues for me in school. I panic when I'm confronted with math, which makes me feel stupid, which makes me frustrated, which makes me angry.
I've always wondered why *supposive* IxTJs have mathaphobia. I even mentioned that a long time ago in the Carl Jung thread when I mentioned that he got anxiety from math as a kid as well (arguing that he wasn't INTP).
I'm not sure, that's why I've never been able to fix this problemoyburger, this makes me curious; what does the INTJI think I have a fear of math
Starting in first grade I would freeze up when learning math and I've spent my whole life avoiding it. I really hate this because avoiding math closed off a lot of avenues for me in school. I panic when I'm confronted with math, which makes me feel stupid, which makes me frustrated, which makes me angry.
I've always wondered why *supposive* IxTJs have mathaphobia. I even mentioned that a long time ago in the Carl Jung thread when I mentioned that he got anxiety from math as a kid as well (arguing that he wasn't INTP).
I think at this point its all about failure and looking stupid.
When I was a child and this whole thing started I don't know what the problem was. It frustrates me though because when it came to school, I felt like I could do anything, except when math was involved.
I know math is supposed to be an abstract concept (at least that's what my husband says) and I understand the theories just fine, its the computation itself, it feels too concrete to me.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
LOL... funny thing is, one ISTJ said that math was too abstract for her, and you're saying that math is too concrete for you.
I think that it may not have much to do with abstract/concrete differences.
INTjs have mathphobia?
I actually *love* math. I showed strong aptitude at a very young age, but started to do worse at it in college. I still find it interesting though.
Thats what I was asking, if I was the only INTj that did have mathphobia? The theories I have no problem with though
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
I hate at times doing the "me too" thing common in discussing Socionics, but I think it's appropriate in this instance. While I can do maths, I do have something of a mathphobia. I much prefer the theories and abstract over the actual usages of maths. I think there is, however, an appeal in maths in that it is dominated by logic and there is a end result correct answer. I think perhaps that an INTj pursues mathematics as a means to an end, and not for its own sake. It is the results and conclusions based upon the problem that is important to an INTj.Thats what I was asking, if I was the only INTj that did have mathphobia? The theories I have no problem with though
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
"me too"
~ as in, that is how I feel.
Yep, I agreeI could be either INTP or INTJ, but I like INTJ better, and I more often score as INTJ.
INTJ just has a little more of that whoopass feel to it, I don't know. The aspect of confidence is what drew it to me at first, because I wasn't reseved out of fear anymore, as in my youth. I may not be socially inclined anyways, but it is not because I am "afraid" of socializing, or am underconfident.
But the way INTP profiles talk about things in terms of thinking, and changing the world, and people and things being raw materials (a kiersey profile, I believe), that fits well with me.
I suppose the difference for me is that I'd rather apply what I learn, as opposed to just learning facts. I am someone who would rather use science and technology to do something, as opposed to just study mathmatical formulas.
They don't use the same functions, at least in my opinion. MBTI "Ti" isn't the same as SocionicsHowever, if you go by functions, I definitely fit Myers-Briggs INTP more because they are TiNe.
eh, there's more, but this is enough for now
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