Who on this form is INTp, INTj, and various variants
It would be nice I think if we could get a discussion going among those people here who might be INTp or INTj. The difference between these types has been a matter of ongoing debate, but I think one may learn more in the interaction between people than in merely arguing the semantics.
Who do people think are the best examples of these types here...and if you think you're one or the other, how do you see yourself, the other type, and the people on this forum who might be INTp or INTj?
I'm an INTp, But it's only recently that I realized I wasnt an INTj and was an INTp.
What made you decide that you're now INTp, was it the VI thread you posted?Originally Posted by Zeia
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
No, it was after I realized that there was no way that I was having contrary relations with ENTj's. I also conflict heavily with my ESFj mother.. and so on, it's something that I've known intuitivley for some time, but just now decided to figure out why. The description of a "critic" is much more applicable in the way I argue. (The sifting through what people say and finding hole's of logic is heavily what I do).What made you decide that you're now INTp, was it the VI thread you posted?
Looking further into it, INTp just fit a lot more than INTj did. I rarely plan everything out before hand, usually just winging presentations and projects with what I come up with at that time. Although I feel like I have a "structured" logic, it's very apparent I'm an irrational type.
I suppose you are then. Some of the reasons you listed as not being INTj re-enforced my opinion that I am.
I could never imagine winging it for presentation
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
YeahI suppose you are then. Some of the reasons you listed as not being INTj re-enforced my opinion that I am.
I could never imagine winging it for presentationI usually just list what I need to talk about.. and make sure I know what I need to say... like 5 min planning
I'm always curious about it when people talk about conflicts with ESFj types. I don't think I've ever gotten to know any ESFj types that well, so that may be why I've never conflicted with them. But if the people I think of as ESFj are ESFj, I can't imagine how one would conflict with them.I also conflict heavily with my ESFj mother.. and so on, it's something that I've known intuitivley for some time, but just now decided to figure out why.
Of course most people probably conflict with their parents when growing up. Also, it seems that in some ways parents may always seem a little ESFj whether they really are...After all, as parents they have to be focused on the practical (S), they need to initiate the interaction with their kids (E), their demands may seem illogical to their children (F), and they usually show discipline and organization compared to their children (j).
Anyhow, I'm curious on your insights...how do you see conflict with an ESFj?
[quote="Jonathan"]This statement is incredibly biased, and as I see it, wrong.Of course most people probably conflict with their parents when growing up. Also, it seems that in some ways parents may always seem a little ESFj whether they really are...After all, as parents they have to be focused on the practical (S), they need to initiate the interaction with their kids (E), their demands may seem illogical to their children (F), and they usually show discipline and organization compared to their children (j).
Of course as a teenager I'm going to conflict with my mother, but it's on a whole different level. It's as if I'm on a seperate form of logic than her, when I try to reason things out, it seems wrong to her. And when I make a point, it ends up hurting her feelings that I disagree with her. This heavily puts me over the edge because I want to finish debating but I'm cut off prematurely.
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you with the statement. It was just a possibility...something to consider...and not meant to imply that I have any idea about the type of someone I've never met and know nothing about.This statement is incredibly biased, and as I see it, wrong.
I mentioned it for the record only because I've seen a lot of posts now where people have said their parents are ESFj and that they conflict with them, and I know from my own experience that as I was growing up, my parents seemed very "S," and it was only years later when I saw their intuitive side and also learned that it was much easier to be on their wavelength than I ever thought possible.
So, anyhow, sorry if I offended you. It wasn't meant to be taken that way.
Oh, I wasnt offended, I just thought it was wrong. She tested herself that way, I didnt type her that way.
They call me an INTj and that seems to fit.
Here are some possible things to consider:
- I get along very well with ESFjs
- I do not like ESFps at all
- I prefer to have things planned, and enjoy proper execution of a plan
(However, I have learned to be spontanous about some things, as I grew up with a p type parent and it worked out okay)- In general, I don't like unexpected things as I am usually (subconsciously even) planning my day out in terms of what is to be done
- I am very future orienated, and could not stand a being a philosophy professor concerning old religions, or fact checking against what there is.
- I believe I use
in that order a lot
- I do not like certain aspects of
situations, like a martial arts class that I am involve in. I am okay with practicing forms alone, but certain situations where there is lots of contact at close range are very uncomfortable.
- I prefer a warm / friendly / exciting environ, as opposed to one of great challenge or dangerousness. (thinking of something form the "INTj or INTp article)
- INTj intuitive subtype sounds about right for me, though ENTp (as some of you may recall), is usually the second type when it comes to type lists. I have also gotten ENTj and INTp at times, but I am sure I am much more
- I have wonderful conversations with other INTjs, likely intuitives, such as appolonian and tcaulding - I like tcau's psychorelativity website.
- When I first joined personality forums, I had major conflicts with INTps using
- I'm rather pure: anti-drug, etc
- Possibly aspirations for revolution / thinking that the majority of people are 'wrong' in what or how they do things.
That's all for off the top of my head. I'm tired and need to go to bed...
Oh yeah, a few more:
*Sometimes I forget to eat meals
*Sometimes I think in such a way that I am rather detached from my body
*I can have "no blood left in face" look when I am in deep thought.
PS: Last but not least...
I am rather "weird" and unique.
most of what UDP described does seem to fit me.
Umm, I'm INTp and I think everyone that has posted in this thread thus far needs to get out a little.
Wow, you guys take this shit seriously.
I have written about this in another thread. My mother is without doubt an ESFj. I can't recall ever having any major conflict with her - but I still believe that we are conflictors. What finally convinced me was Rick's description of conflicting relations on his site, which captures pretty well the feeling I have when I meet ESFjs. It's like a kind of wall between us in conversations, an often uncomfortable feeling of not being able to get through to their way of thinking. We definitely live in "different worlds". Often we both become silent, because neither one of us seem to know what to say. I have experienced more than once that the ESFjs might become much less extraverted in my company, and if I sometimes try to brake the ice the conversation soon dies out. I get much more stimulation from ESFps.I'm always curious about it when people talk about conflicts with ESFj types. I don't think I've ever gotten to know any ESFj types that well, so that may be why I've never conflicted with them. But if the people I think of as ESFj are ESFj, I can't imagine how one would conflict with them.
I think that Zeia's description
is good, especially the last sentence.It's as if I'm on a seperate form of logic than her, when I try to reason things out, it seems wrong to her. And when I make a point, it ends up hurting her feelings that I disagree with her. This heavily puts me over the edge because I want to finish debating but I'm cut off prematurely.
Everything UDP described sounded like me as well, some things more so then others. The only thing that might differ for me is:
I am very future orienated, and could not stand a being a philosophy professor concerning old religions, or fact checking against what there is
I enjoy history; studying old religions and comparing the various stories to one another is one of my hobbies.
I also think UDP wrote somewhere that he hates fiction and I enjoy reading any genre just so long that its interesting.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
I'm curious how you perceive the conflict with ESFps. How do you see them? Don't you at least sometimes think that they're exciting and fun at least in certain situations?UDP:...
I do not like ESFps at all
...
I do not like certain aspects of situations, like a martial arts class that I am involve in. I am okay with practicing forms alone, but certain situations where there is lots of contact at close range are very uncomfortable.
I prefer a warm / friendly / exciting environ, as opposed to one of great challenge or dangerousness. (thinking of something form the "INTj or INTp article)
...
I'm rather pure: anti-drug, etc
Possibly aspirations for revolution / thinking that the majority of people are 'wrong' in what or how they do things.
...
*Sometimes I forget to eat meals
*Sometimes I think in such a way that I am rather detached from my body
...
I am rather "weird" and unique.
As to the other things you mention...I wonder if other people here see them as not compatible with INTp also, because I certainly identify with all the things I left in the quote, even though I like to wing things and not have to follow a plan. In particular, I think I may have read that article about INTps and dangerousness (was it on www.socionics.com)?
I wonder if the INTps here actually like dangerous environments, close-contact sports, etc. My observation is that none of the four IN types are very much into to such things (compared to E or S types), at least when it comes to real-life participation (as opposed to fantasy).
For the INTps here....What do you think of these things? Can you see yourself identifying with some of the things UDP lists?
In all reality I think that what I wrote was much more INT- than INTj or INTp, because I could see INTps and INTjs going through both. SO pwehPA the list isn't necessaily conclusive in terms of the 'division' between INTj and INTp, but perhaps it could point out some reasons for similarity. I don't know
Also, even though I identify a lot more with INTj, I wouldn't be surprised if one day I ended up resulting as an INTp
What I don't like about ESFps is, well, that they often come across as whore-ish in my eyes. Sure, they are great entertainers, and can be very sexy - good performers at what they do --- I've no problem with that. But I really just don't know about them when it comes to relationships with me. They often come across as extravertedly self indulgent. In my own experience, there are times when I would try to say or do something to satisfy them or make something better, but really what they needed was criticism. I suppose that is an indicator of the INTj-ESFj / INTp-ESFp dynamic. An ESFj would not react well to criticism at all, but would appreciate INTjs attempts, where as an ESFp would much more appreciate an INTps criticisms and warnings, etc.
There was always a whole lof of uncertainty when it came to ESFps... but that was before I knew aboutsocionics, so I imagine it wouldn't be so 'strange' for me nowadays, now that I understand them better, somewhat.I never felt comfortable around ESFps, because I could never really connect with them on a level. Everything they spoke of seemed like the opposite view in terms of what I was thinking, which it likely was in fact. It is hard to build a relationship or friendship that way.
There is one ESFp from HS that I knew fairly well, and was attracted to. But the more I learned about her as time went by, the less and less. She had a nice ass, but her character was really strange, and eventually it declined. I even thought, being a very very young person, that maybe I was supposed to 'take care of her', because I could actually talk to her - she didn't have many real true close friends, but tons of aquaintences. So as you can imagine my thoughts were 'noble', but lead nowhere. Can you imagine an INTj trying to take care of an ESFp? Please stop now, I don't want you to sue this forum. And for the record, this one experience is not the one defining reason in my life that I don't like ESFps - just because I had a bad experience with one individual. I am aware enough to know that it would be really fitting to say that one person that I don't really like is my conflictor, but 'tis more than that, honestly. What I gave is one of the better examples, though.
I was going to ask her out on a date, but I was never sure about her relationship status - if she was still with her boyfriend or not. j/p. I could have had her if I wanted to, and we always flirted, but there was really nothing there, likely for either of us. We were just sort of both good looking :/. Needless to say.... I am very glad that I stuck to my guns, and my intuition -and my logic and values, because for what it is worth (without saying anything about her current status), I just am glad that she is not someone who is a big part of my daily life.
I don't mind ESFps in general, so long as they keep there distance. But close interpersonal relatoinships are just not really something I am inclined to share with them.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Yes, I think so. And I think that most INTjs and most INTps can do that. But there might be some differences too. Maybe it depends to a certain extent on how you interpret these things.For the INTps here....What do you think of these things? Can you see yourself identifying with some of the things UDP lists?
I think that I get along better with ESFps but as I said in my last post I haven't had any particular trouble with ESFjs except from those I mentioned.
In comparison with ENTps I am much more for planning things, and I am not particularly spontaneous, but I am not good at following up on plans, I am rather undisciplined, I don't like to have obligations, and even though I have thought that I probably would benefit from having my life more scheduled I am not good at giving it a structure.
I am clearly future oriented, and I have realized that I am not that fond of an academy life.
Which functions I believe that I use most is dependent on which type I believe that I am.
I don't know if I like or dislike certain aspects of
Whether I prefer a warm/friendly/exciting environment is also not that easy to determine for sure.
I don't know about major conflicts, but it seems that it can be a slight tension in the discussions between people who are supposedly INTjs and INTps. The problem is of course to determine which group is which.
I am not anti-drug.
I think that both INTjs and INTps can believe that the majority of people are wrong in their thinking and/or doing things.
Sometimes I forget to eat meals, sometimes I am rather detached from my body, and in general I am much more pale than average, even when I am not in deep thought.
I am clearly rather "weird" and unique. Exactly how weird I don't know, though.
And while I make fun of ESFjs sometimes for their overemotionality, I've never been compelled to criticize them. ANd as per INTj profiles, the way an ESFj is described as making unneccessary movements to spring the INTj into action, as opposed to direct orders, works very well for me.
For instance, now in my situation, an ESFj won't necessarily ask me to do something, but if she mentions something that needs to be done, I will do it. So it is very indirect, and it works out so much better than other, more oder-like commands. When an ESFp asked me to do something it was usually , well... never mind. But it was always odd-feeling, and, other than there being some sexual alluring-ness, enticement... there was nothing there. We didn't really connect on anything, ever.
Maybe there are some other ESFps out there that I will react differently to someday. But thus far... conflictor it is.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I can relate to many things that UDP says about ESFps, and I think that it in many ways pretty well captures what I feel in relation to ESFjs.
So ESFjs have trouble with constructive criticism then? That makes me remember something...An ESFj would not react well to criticism at all, but would appreciate INTjs attempts
The one possible ESFj conflict situation I was in was when a person who might have been ESFj (clearly had Fe, had a sympathetic appearance and was good at making phone calls and working with customers, etc.) had a short story published. I was very interested and asked her if I could read it. She let me borrow it. I told her that I thought it was very good, but I had a few suggestions.
She absolutely chewed me out, saying that it was totally inappropriate for me to critique her story if she didn't ask for a critique.
Is that possibly typical of how an ESFj might react? And how would an INTj handle it differently? Would an INTj be more aware that you're not supposed to offer suggestions unless asked?
So...curious...what sort of INTj attempts are you talking about? What, as an INTj, do you know to do or say to make things better when dealing with an ESFj?
The ESFj I know would probably go along with it if I was convincing. Just like with all people, I prefer to be blunt and back my statements with sound reasoning.Is that possibly typical of how an ESFj might react? And how would an INTj handle it differently? Would an INTj be more aware that you're not supposed to offer suggestions unless asked?
So...curious...what sort of INTj attempts are you talking about? What, as an INTj, do you know to do or say to make things better when dealing with an ESFj?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Hmm, I don't really know...
In this situation it was likely that she was just expecting a sort of "wow, that was nice", more of a common courtesy ethical thing. You may have just been out of line in (to her) with your response, either by not delivering the amount of appreciation she was hoping for, or by criticizing something that she was really proud of.The one possible ESFj conflict situation I was in was when a person who might have been ESFj (clearly had Fe, had a sympathetic appearance and was good at making phone calls and working with customers, etc.) had a short story published. I was very interested and asked her if I could read it. She let me borrow it. I told her that I thought it was very good, but I had a few suggestions.
I am not necessarily sure how I would handle the situation better because I don't know the context of what the story meant to her or the nature of your "suggestions". Considering that it was already published and 'accepted' in some way, it could be that she thought any criticisms of it were uncalled for. That's just a guess, though.
What i would do would probably just say something very small, like "that's nice", etc. (As per INTj-ness). BUt I have learned more social skills over the years, so really what I would do would be to find out how she thinks about it, ask leading questions, etc. If she is an ESFj she'd probably enjoy telling you everything you need to know about the story and how she came to it, etc, so I would probably just let her, but make it seem like I was interested. And I may actually be interested, because there could be things in the story I could use for future reference in regard to this person. Etc etc.
As an INTj... well, I guess I just let the ESFj decide more where the conversation is to go, unless there is something I feel important, etc. I don't really know, though, how an INTj specifically would do anything. I imagine INTjs are someone that ESFjs can trust based on personality and reputation - they feel more comfrotable with INTjs than INTps, perhaps. BUt I don't really know of anything super INTj specific that would have anything to do with it.What, as an INTj, do you know to do or say to make things better when dealing with an ESFj?
Taking the time for small talk, asking how they are doing, and keeping a (small, even) tab on their family and the people close to them generally help things. You can always ask about them, so long as they are in a talkative mood. A lot of it is just general interpersonal communication stuff, really, now that I think back to COMN 103
There is also the sheer factore that talking to women is different than talking to men, and sometimes you just don't connect with women, so don't confuse that with having problems with ESFjs. But I don't know what to say about that, because I don't "dislike" talking to women too much, as some other males do. (no, not in a flirty flirt way, but in a regular way). Even some SFs, Sps, complain about such gender differences. And I can see how for an INT especially it could be difficult. Just a thought, though.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
You can have bricks, water, honey, diamonds, popsicles or brownies... but if she is wants cream, she will be dissapointed with everything else that isn't cream. Meaning that if she wants to hear "wow that was nice", anything less (or more, perhaps -- especially in regard to criticism), will probably not go over too well. But that is my experiential ethical logic that has been developed over time. You should probably as an F type, or even more so, an ESFj (or even her, if you can), how you should have reacted. Actually, if you ask her what went wrong, sincerely, then she may at least respect your effort to try to better the relation.
(by the by, that was major adaptation of a (shakespearean?) situation)
((All I remember is Wishbone playing the guy who had the ugly face and long nose, but wrote poety very well for this guy who was in love with a beatuy but had no game when it came to words. Eventually, no game guy was blown up by a cannon, and the girl finds out that the poetry was made by the ugly guy (WIshbone the dog's character), and then they got together, I think))
((("You give me water but I ask for cream" - something like that, she said.
So there you have it
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrano_...rac_%28play%29
uh, sort of a link.... but here is the real quote:
word."Speak to me...be eloquent, be brilliant for me.
Improvise, Rhapsodize...
I ask for cream and you give me milk and water...
Please gather your dreams together into words."
PS: Just so you don't think I was being false --
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I have found that it is possible to be blunt and tactful. That whole "wow that was nice" does in fact go a long way even if it is just dropped at the beginning of a statement. And sometimes you can soften criticism by putting it in the form of a question.Meaning that if she wants to hear "wow that was nice", anything less (or more, perhaps -- especially in regard to criticism), will probably not go over too well.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
@ Jonathan
I have similar experiences with ESFjs. It is very natural for me to act in exactly the way you acted. To some degree I have learnt to formulate criticisms in a way that is more "socially acceptable" than the way I prefer, but that means that I have to force myself to act in a slightly unnatural way. One ESFp that I know is much more open to my advice and don't take it negatively in the way most ESFjs do.She absolutely chewed me out, saying that it was totally inappropriate for me to critique her story if she didn't ask for a critique.
I also think of what UDP said about the indirect communication he had with ESFjs:
I can certainly relate to that as I have worked with an ESFj for about six months. I could sense that she wanted me to act the way UDP does, but that is not very natural for me. I prefer direct information in such situations, and I can sometimes feel that the ESFjs don't like that and get slightly irritated becuase I am not sure every time what they want me to do. There are often slight misunderstandings which sometimes lead to mistakes from both of us.For instance, now in my situation, an ESFj won't necessarily ask me to do something, but if she mentions something that needs to be done, I will do it. So it is very indirect, and it works out so much better than other, more oder-like commands.
Yeah, I resonate with a lot of things UDP said...I actually do try to be tactful and not too direct if I don't think people can handle over-directness (based on learning from experience).
But what caught me offguard in this particular case was the ferocity of this person's attack, the fact that she didn't even let me back-peddle, and the implication that with such a mild-mannered comment I had broken some important social rule that I knew nothing about.
I generally try to be sensitive to people's feelings, but if someone implies that there's some sort of "rule" that I'm supposed to know and that I'm terrible for breaking, it tends to make feel baffled like "how was I supposed to know?" I've gotten better though, I think....
Anyhow, I've always felt that INTJs (if not INTjs...) are much better at knowing all these rules one's supposed to know.
PS...One thing I think is nice about ESFps, if the people I think are ESFps really are, is that in situations where other people might have rules that would cause me to feel excluded, ESFps are more inclusive and better at accepting people "the way they are."
Not me. Whenever I'm with more than one person I feel lost about unspoken (or even well known) social rules. That's what makes those experiences frightening for me. I'll replay conversations in my head and analyze them checking to see if an unexpected reaction from the other person might have been because of some rule I didn't know. People that I'm close to and know that I have this problem will sometimes bring to light incidences where this occurred in a somewhat futile attempt to help me.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
This does not sound like any FeSi I've ever known. Most FeSi's that I've ran into love constructive criticism toward what their doing in an effort to make it better... This back attack sounds much like what an Se type would do if offended by something. Probably you're mixing FeSi's up with SeFi's
Wrong. Just simply wrong. INTj's are horrible at picking any social rule that I know of. Their just oblivious to other people's notions until afterwards.Anyhow, I've always felt that INTJs (if not INTjs...) are much better at knowing all these rules one's supposed to know.
That could be.Probably you're mixing FeSi's up with SeFi's
Generally that is how I am, unless it is a situation that I've got lots of experience. But most of the time I am at a loss --- so that has to do with some of my defensiveness and distance I believe, because I know that is a vulnerable area. Or at least that is what I aim for at times.Wrong. Just simply wrong. INTj's are horrible at picking any social rule that I know of. Their just oblivious to other people's notions until afterwards.
When I posted about the psychological distance of formality, it had to do with that also -- because it is a somewhat standardized method of interaction.
ah, I've got to go. More later.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
why would an ESFp be offended by this? what UDP had said made sense on a lot of levels.
Please reread my and the rest of the posts, I dont think you understand what I was referencing
why would an ESFp be offended by this? what UDP had said made sense on a lot of levels.
This is my big vulnerable area too. I think that's why I was diagnosed with social anxiety.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
you didn't make any other posts in this thread relevant to this issue. if you were not responding directly to UDP's suggestion that the ESFj requires compliments whereas the ESFp requires critique, then what on earth were you talking about?
i don't understand why you appeared to disagree with UDP's suggestion; it made a lot sense from the perspectives of intertype relations (most specifically duality) and from the functions (why would Fe and Si need criticism? that doesn't make sense)
so, explain why you think ESFps and ESFjs don't react this way.
I believe Zeia was refering to that - though I don't know - we'll find out from him. To clarify, I was agreeing with Zeia when he said that it sounds like, possibly, Johnathan was getting ESFjs mixed up with ESFps.That could be.
(Seperately, this also somewhat sounds like an INTp / INTj conflict, based the last two posts by Zeia (INTp) and niffweed17 (INTj?). Looks familiar to some of the ones I've experience in the past.)
Tentative guess, though.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
oh, that was jonathan. that's probably a source of ambiguity. i thought UDP posted that thing about how it's possible that ESFps require criticism and ESFjs require praise.
my mistake.
anyway, zeia definitely believed that it was incorrect. the question is, why?
Hmm, I may have written what you are refering to, but I'm not sure...
I guess it doesn't matter who it is. I don't care if I am wrong or not, but I am interested in others opinoins about this thread regardless.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Yes, I think so. It is definitely my experience with ESFps so far that they are more accepting than ESFjs.ESFps are more inclusive and better at accepting people "the way they are."
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