View Poll Results: The more honorable one is..

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  • Policeman

    6 40.00%
  • Prostitute

    9 60.00%
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Thread: Which occupation do you consider more honorable?

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    Default Which occupation do you consider more honorable?

    A prostitute or a policeman?

    Both are doing what their job description says. The police of this example doesn't take bribes and the prostitute isn't going to rob you.
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    I don't attach honour to professions, so I can't pick one.

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    Narc's post was going to be my reply, word for word

    In a way this question is also: which would you prefer to be. I'd consider both then go for the third option.

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    Motive is a better indicator of honor vs. the profession itself.

    For example, someone might become a police officer because they are willing to put their life on the line to make a positive impact on their community, reduce crime and improve safety for their friends and neighbors. Others may become a police officer because they want to exert authority, bully people, carry a weapon and wear camo fatigues.

    On the flip side, a woman may become a prostitute because she is a single mom and has a hard time providing for her children. Another woman may become a prostitute because she's too lazy to wake up everyday before noon, does a crap load of drugs for recreation and is trying to win the heart of Tyrone when no matter how much cash she hands him, he just slaps her and drops her back off at the curb.

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    police officer, at least it's a profession people choose, not something shitty circumstances or criminals force them into. Okay, that's generalizing, but i imagine prostitution is not a rewarding profession and therefore not one people do willingly. Policing can be. Police constantly deal with the darkest side of human nature(and are sometimes cut from the same cloth as those they police), and sometimes prostitutes as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Both are doing what their job description says.
    Wrong.

    The police of this example doesn't take bribes and the prostitute isn't going to rob you.
    Wrong.

    A prostitute or a policeman?
    Cabbage or cabbage?

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    They're the same. No one profession is more 'honorable' or 'better' than another. This includes military which is a profession.

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    Whores often lovingly sex up men who otherwise probable would never be able to have sexual experiences. I inched watched a documentary about disabled men who seek out love from prostitutes. Sometimes they don't even want sex. They just want physical affection, and while it is kind of sad that they have to *pay* for it -- it is obviously therapeutic for them.

    No profession is itself honorable, but I think every profession can be carried out honorably.

    It upsets me that more value is assigned to someone doing their *job* with the police or military though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    It upsets me that more value is assigned to someone doing their *job* with the police or military though.
    Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    Why?
    Because their lives are not more valuable than a trash collector's life, or a novel's life, or a lawyer's life.

    When they sign up for their jobs they are completely aware of the risks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    Because their lives are not more valuable than a trash collector's life, or a novel's life, or a lawyer's life.

    When they sign up for their jobs they are completely aware of the risks.
    More valuable? They are the one's that die so the trash collector, novelist, and lawyer can live their lives...I'd say they are seen/treated as less valuable... what do you mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    Because their lives are not more valuable than a trash collector's life, or a novel's life, or a lawyer's life.

    When they sign up for their jobs they are completely aware of the risks.
    I completely agree, and its befuddling how often my co-workers disagree with me.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Are you kidding me? No they're not. If someone shoots a cop, even if its just a scared, stupid, kid it's pretty much an instant death penalty (in states with capital punishment). You can rape and murder a child with less recourse.

    It's lovely that they "protect" and "serve," but they also frequently abuse their power. And as I said: the become a cop with the knowledge that their job is potentially dangerous. People don't weep and moan every time someone dies on an oil rig because that is dangerous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    Are you kidding me? No they're not. If someone shoots a cop, even if its just a scared, stupid, kid it's pretty much an instant death penalty (in states with capital punishment). You can rape and murder a child with less recourse.
    I think the gist is that if they weren't tougher on people who shot cops, they might be unable to do their jobs. Power is a very political thing, I guess.

    It's lovely that they "protect" and "serve," but they also frequently abuse their power. And as I said: the become a cop with the knowledge that their job is potentially dangerous. People don't weep and moan every time someone dies on an oil rig because that is dangerous.
    Right, but people aren't perfect and we all make mistakes and abuse power at times. And just because someone accepts a job that is dangerous doesn't mean they don't deserve to be missed, if something happens to them. I'm guessing people who work on oil rigs don't have a community of people that feel a loss when someone they have come to appreciate is shot and killed one day. Some people also find the idea of a police force being decimated by criminals disheartening in itself as well because it means the structure of society is falling apart; to them it's more important than someone in an oil rig dying from an accident.

    So I'm not really sure what you mean by more valuable. They are valued for what they represent, I suppose. Do you then think they shouldn't represent such value? Can a society function on good faith between individuals and groups, without a populace that respects the power structure enough to allow it to keep things in some kind of harmonic check?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vois View Post
    I think in a way police are treated as icons for the country itself. So, the same way people overreact to terrorist attacks, people overreact to the death of a cop. It becomes personal for a misguidedly patriotic person, because he feels a part of himself is being attacked.

    I say "misguidedly" because if one is to feel patriotism, it should be for the "common citizens" of the country who actually symbolize the culture and national identity, not the state.

    Maybe cops would have a better reputation and stop being such dicks if they were treated as if they held "just another job," but they aren't and don't, the same way movie stars and famous politicians don't.

    (most of this is not really directed towards you, Scape. But your comment is what inspired the thought, so that's why I quoted it.)
    Contrary to popular opinion, everything doesn't always stem from narcissism. Well, maybe sometimes it does for the stupid people; but there's more to it then that. That's a rather shallow way to look at the value a police force represents for society, as well as a military.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vois View Post
    I didn't use narcissism as a basis for judging their value. I used narcissism to explain their publicly perceived image and propensity for being giant cocks about asserting their exaggerated sense of dignity and honor. I didn't even so much as infer an interest in "value" (in the sense of what good they contribute to society) in that post.
    Value includes how something is perceived (or image), which can be good or bad (according to you, I focused on good). And that's partly what I talked about in my argument. So you did infer value, as I referenced it. And more specifically, you judged their "value" in doing so, by reducing it to patriotic narcissism. And masking such a judgment under the guise of "perception" doesn't somehow make it okay...
    Last edited by strangeling; 04-22-2013 at 07:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    butts
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    I never get these type of questions, it's like typology always one or the other.

    I'd say that it's neither of them per se, it's more so what the person does with the job that makes it honourable, eg a policeperson harrassing vulnerable people who are mostly minding their own business to another one going out and catching da rapist, one method is honourable the other is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I never get these type of questions, it's like typology always one or the other.

    I'd say that it's neither of them per se, it's more so what the person does with the job that makes it honourable, eg a policeperson harrassing vulnerable people who are mostly minding their own business to another one going out and catching da rapist, one method is honourable the other is not.
    i liked what a lot of people had to say in this thread but this is pretty much where i'm at with the question too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I never get these type of questions, it's like typology always one or the other.

    I'd say that it's neither of them per se, it's more so what the person does with the job that makes it honourable, eg a policeperson harrassing vulnerable people who are mostly minding their own business to another one going out and catching da rapist, one method is honourable the other is not.
    Policemen don't really make a lot of choices about what cases and patrols they get as far as I'm concerned. They might make choices about not harassing a hippie who is passing by but they are assigned.
    Do you consider that the officer in charge of rape investigation is more honorable than the one assigned to bust a home party or what did you mean?
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    Yea I really like Narc's answer as well.

    In general I find it kind of cringe worthy having people honor me because I wear a badge and act like the protector of society or because I get them off and make them feel good. I find more personal honor at least in just having personal integrity.

    The prostitute I guess provides pleasure to society while the cop tries to constrain society -- its like the id versus the superego and having to choose one or the other feels like some diabolical choice... I'd rather exist in some zone where there is no honor and badges and people are people and there is a balance between feeling safe, protected and gratified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikimaru View Post
    I'd rather exist in some zone where there is no honor and badges and people are people and there is a balance between feeling safe, protected and gratified.
    Yeah, me too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Policemen don't really make a lot of choices about what cases and patrols they get as far as I'm concerned.
    I see

    Do you consider that the officer in charge of rape investigation is more honorable than the one assigned to bust a home party or what did you mean?
    Well if there is someone being raped in close vicinity but the copper doesn't do anything because a) can't be arsed b) finishes shift soon c) is afraid then what do you think I think?
    Last edited by Words; 04-23-2013 at 09:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Prostitutes are giving up part of their sexual intimacy so that other people would have a chance of actualizing their own.
    Actually they do that to get paid for the service they offer and not to deliver enlightenment to the buyer.
    Last edited by Absurd; 04-22-2013 at 10:05 AM.

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    I find it hard to respect policemen because they have made a choice to become policemen. I have no trouble respecting someone who's a prostitute, but the occupation alone wouldn't be big enough a reason to make me honour him/her.

    If I had to choose, I'd still become a policeman myself. I'd be damn corrupt though - I'd refuse to act against my own sense of morality, which unfortunately happens to conflict with the law more often than not.
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    Honor: honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions: a man of honor. "intentions"
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    Policemen have the ability to cause far more damage to society than prostitutes, the police need honor as a form of ethical self-regulation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    Policemen have the ability to cause far more damage to society than prostitutes, the police need honor as a form of ethical self-regulation.
    Yes, because they are a group. So of course they collectively wield more power. People in this thread seem to be talking about prostitutes as self-employed, empowered women. For me this doesn't even get close to the reality of prostitution which is more about human trafficking gangs, which of course are harmful - yes even in countries where prostitution is legalised - more so according to studies actually. Globalisation is a twat in many respects. It's not honorable to be human trafficked.

    So then we're talking about a minority of prostitutes being "good prostitutes" vs. the minority of police being "bad police". Maybe ideally you'd prefer global anarchy? How achievable does that seem? It's really easy to diss them to feel oh so cool and liberal and I've almost certainly done it Maybe I'm just in a bad mood because I'm hungry but I feel most of this thread in no way reflects reality and grrrr... HIV anyone???

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    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    Yes, because they are a group. So of course they collectively wield more power. People in this thread seem to be talking about prostitutes as self-employed, empowered women. For me this doesn't even get close to the reality of prostitution which is more about human trafficking gangs, which of course are harmful - yes even in countries where prostitution is legalised - more so according to studies actually. Globalisation is a twat in many respects. It's not honorable to be human trafficked.

    So then we're talking about a minority of prostitutes being "good prostitutes" vs. the minority of police being "bad police". Maybe ideally you'd prefer global anarchy? How achievable does that seem? It's really easy to diss them to feel oh so cool and liberal and I've almost certainly done it Maybe I'm just in a bad mood because I'm hungry but I feel most of this thread in no way reflects reality and grrrr... HIV anyone???
    You've had a lot of experience with prostitutes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    Yes, because they are a group. So of course they collectively wield more power. People in this thread seem to be talking about prostitutes as self-employed, empowered women. For me this doesn't even get close to the reality of prostitution which is more about human trafficking gangs, which of course are harmful - yes even in countries where prostitution is legalised - more so according to studies actually. Globalisation is a twat in many respects. It's not honorable to be human trafficked.
    This is true. I could have added that the prostitute in question is not forced, just like I added that she/he isn't going to rob you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    Yes, because they are a group.
    Also because they've been handed powers by the government (or some other powerful entity) to keep order. Corrupt or incompetent police can very easily fuck up a society in more ways and far quicker than morally corrupt prostitution (most prostitution is highly morally corrupt because of reasons you've stated). I'm not saying that prostitutes are good and policemen are bad, but that policemen can cause a fuck-load of damage when they are bad and prostitutes cause far less damage when they are bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    Yes, because they are a group. So of course they collectively wield more power. People in this thread seem to be talking about prostitutes as self-employed, empowered women. For me this doesn't even get close to the reality of prostitution which is more about human trafficking gangs, which of course are harmful - yes even in countries where prostitution is legalised - more so according to studies actually. Globalisation is a twat in many respects. It's not honorable to be human trafficked.

    So then we're talking about a minority of prostitutes being "good prostitutes" vs. the minority of police being "bad police". Maybe ideally you'd prefer global anarchy? How achievable does that seem? It's really easy to diss them to feel oh so cool and liberal and I've almost certainly done it Maybe I'm just in a bad mood because I'm hungry but I feel most of this thread in no way reflects reality and grrrr... HIV anyone???
    Several posters dont seem to escape their idealizations of either prostitutes or police. Don't expect this group to be at all worldly.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath View Post
    Several posters dont seem to escape their idealizations of either prostitutes or police. Don't expect this group to be at all worldly.
    Actually it seems to me they're men of the world and they know what sad shape the world is in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    Yes, because they are a group. So of course they collectively wield more power. People in this thread seem to be talking about prostitutes as self-employed, empowered women. For me this doesn't even get close to the reality of prostitution which is more about human trafficking gangs, which of course are harmful - yes even in countries where prostitution is legalised - more so according to studies actually. Globalisation is a twat in many respects. It's not honorable to be human trafficked.

    So then we're talking about a minority of prostitutes being "good prostitutes" vs. the minority of police being "bad police". Maybe ideally you'd prefer global anarchy? How achievable does that seem? It's really easy to diss them to feel oh so cool and liberal and I've almost certainly done it Maybe I'm just in a bad mood because I'm hungry but I feel most of this thread in no way reflects reality and grrrr... HIV anyone???
    Prostitutes aren't empowered in that sense it's easier to deal with a prostitute as they can do very little to you. As a service provider they can be viewed the same way as a maid or a hairdresser in the economic side of things. Their pimp is another matter.

    The police wield power so just about everything you do can be used against you, so there will be a level of apprehension in that interaction.

    The problem of prostitution isn't prostitutes it's the demand for them is greater than the supply of women who are willing to work as prostitutes. That supply and demand gap for cheap prostitutes is being fulfilled by human trafficking. Prostitution isn't a victim-less crime in my opinion so it should be punished, but not the victims, who are generally the prostitutes themselves. The johns/customers are the one that need to be punished for "possibly" victimizing the prostitutes, the pimps should be punished for human trafficking. Generally the only "innocent" victims in this industry are the prostitutes. A pimp and a john are people who engage in the practice entirely of their volition and thus they cannot be viewed as victims.

    This won't end the problem, but it would punish the right people and not the victims. There will be semi-legal escort services that skirt the law regardless of the legality of prostitution itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    Policemen have the ability to cause far more damage to society than prostitutes, the police need honor as a form of ethical self-regulation.
    Prostitute police people can cause 'damage' as well, by giving you AIDS instead of a gun.

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    More than you may assume. But my point is more that legalized prostitution is bad for human trafficking victims. Now excuse me, I am off to eat a sandwich.

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    Police bad, prostitutes un-bad. Check. I take it you call prostitutes when your place got robbed, lecky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Police bad, prostitutes un-bad. Check.
    Police more 'bad' in terms of possible damage impact to society than prostitutes. I have in no way implied that prostitutes are un-bad.
    ἀταραξία

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    Police more 'bad' in terms of possible damage impact to society than prostitutes. I have in no way implied that prostitutes are un-bad.
    Well, that's still somewhat subjective valuation process(?)

    Someone could deter from calling the pOlice seeing they're 'bad' and can do more damage than a prostitute, and call a prostitute to investigate the crime scene instead.

    Kafka revisited.

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