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Last edited by Zenoa; 06-05-2013 at 02:35 AM. Reason: too many things socionically incorrect in this thread
The SLE has, effectively, set you up to fail by giving you an impossible task. If a similar situation occurs, it might help to get a new prospective by talking to coworkers about it rather than increasing your effort. Work shouldn't be about over-exertion at all.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It doesn't take a particularly intelligent person to study and to make sense of observations.
I agree. FTR though, micromanaging isn't my thing because I somehow enjoy it. It's simply because I'm quick to notice (and to be concerned) that certain things need to be in place before particular goals can be accomplished.
My boss is LSI and the manager is SLE, in that dynamics it's much worse because the LSI just is intense; be lucky you have SLE managing you because you're given the freedom to be as detailed as you like and structure things however you like; all SLE wants is that the work is done and that you tell them it is. They may track your activities sometimes, like recording your conversations, but as long as you're honest, that's all they care about; unbridled honesty. Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
How does this play out in the long run? What must the LSI do in order to stay under the SLE's radar? Assuming that the boss is SLE and the subordinate LSI.
I've been thinking about this, and apologizing in a laughing tone won't work- it's hard enough to get a laugh out of me on a typical day. Apologizing to the SLE has to be done very carefully too - no chinks in the armor (minor, one-off ones are still acceptable) or else.Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."
As I am for your pitiable Fi PoLR. I hope it didn't ruin too many of your relationships.Originally Posted by Phthalate
Hi Maritsa. I have no idea whatever it was the intention of the SLE to set the OP to fail and I did not want to make that assertion at all. It's just not a good practice to give someone an impossible task. It could be very damaging to someone with an internal locus of control.
Generally the way to deal with superego is to plan ahead. Don't improvise if you can avoid it. Plan ahead and consider possible scenarios and how you would deal with it. Don't wait until you actually are in that situation. If you succeed in this you can go on using strong functions and superego will not bother you too much. Superego can and should be used but it is not for creative work or improvising on the fly.
My thoughts - take with grain of salt, and may not apply to you. Ne polr isn't about any lack of resourcefulness - Se creative can actually lead to a great deal of resourcefulness and one article I read said Se-creatives can create money out of thin air etc. as an exaggeration on this attribute. I think instead it has more to do with getting locked-in to a decision and developing tunnel-vision. As in, I will see an option - the option seems like it will solve all the problems, so I decide to take it and every other option disappears.
As an example (sorry has to remain vague,) recently I was faced with a decision to make, and wasn't sure which way to approach it. A good friend told me to absolutely not take a certain option, and gave me other suggestions. I agreed, and was determined to follow this advice UNTIL an opportunity arose that I didn't think I should miss, and taking that opportunity led to a series of events where I felt like I had no choice BUT the option I had agreed not to take. It wasn't actually my only choice, but it seemed the easiest and most practical way out of the situation in the moment, and I locked into it. To me it was the only choice. And I took it. The desire to make a decision and finish something can override everything else at times.
BTW, in your example - how were you able to create a plan without knowing the problem could be solved? Plan = steps to take to reach goal, yes? If you had no achievable goal - what did that consist of? Was your plan just to try a bunch of stuff and see if any of it got you any closer? In the future, to avoid this, as soon as you see that something is dependent on factors outside of your control, list those factors and bring them to the attention of whoever has assigned you the task. Perhaps those things are not outside of their control - or perhaps they are, but you need to bring them up and show exactly what obstacles are stopping you. Get other heads in on the matter if possible for a second look as well, to see if you might just be missing something. But if you don't see a way to a solution, beating your head against everything in a vain attempt to chance upon a solution doesn't usually work very well.
It just seems you were too invested in the work. Unless you are working entirely for yourself, it's always best to be a bit detached and don't give 100%, lest being exploited.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
wow, you know how to type? HOW? Where? Why?
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1rlFtCDrw This guy nailed some good points
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Who's winning?
yes it is because you're taking one immature or not-yet-grown or unblessed with experience person's view and applying it to all ESTJs. that's unfair and untrue. and even the one who said he isn't as connected to knowing about what a relationship feels like doesn't necessarily NOT WANT one!
Why you so stubborn, M?
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
sounds like you are claiming to have received an Ne-POLR hit from your boss, whom you are typing SLE.
One of the two is wrong. Either it wasn't an Ne-POLR hit, or your boss isn't SLE. SLEs dont value Ne and wouldn't be hitting an Ne-POLR with Ne. Maybe your boss is ILE? That said, i'm not sure that "training style" is a manifestation of Ne. I guess it could be (in the sense of giving you freedom to be as creative as you want to be), in a non-Te-driven way. I like to have a balance of Te-based guidance, though, with autonomy/flexibility given to me.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I think lots of people end up using socionics as a metaphor to describe things they suck at or just got wrong, to then try to improve them.
I mean, if socionics was really true, I don't think I can explain or sometimes see what functions are like as a base, maybe that would be even harder to do and observe as a PoLR.
Never in my life did I think I would visit the 16types and read a thread about Maritsa and LSEs.
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Last edited by Zenoa; 05-10-2013 at 01:17 AM.
Don't stress over it and take it with a gain of salt. Focus only what you have control of, and don't blow up under any circumstances.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
-- Mark Twain
"Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
-- Confucius
I would say Ne PoLR would involve directly speaking to your boss about this rather than leaving things undecided and with ambiguity.
Then thinking Sh*t maybe shouldn't have done that.
Or just leaving it till it's too late to do it.
Maybe get some advice from someone you work with who has Ni that you can reasonably confide in, see what their advice is.
Speaking of that; my LSE friend, who has cheated on his wife several times, said one day "I feel like you can love more than one person." I asked if he ever fell in love with all these girls he's cheated with and he said "probably not." But he still says "I still love my wife." I asked if he was with her out of love or something else, he stopped for a minute and reflected, then he said, it was because of familiarity, he was with her because she was already apart of this circle he created and it was better to have something old and comfortable and familiar than something new.
So much for knowing what LOVE really is, huh? Right. They don't know, honestly; they just want a dog that will never respond; that's their idea of love. People come in OBJECTS OF AFFECTION to an LSE. Sadly, there are so many objects out there and Affections are not static for them they are transient or changing.
Surprise!!! I don't come in DOG. I come in human.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Actually, there is truth to Maritsa's observations. While I am aware of the need to show more sensitivity to the LSE sociokind, her observation on this matter is consistent with my own (I am NOT generalising btw).
p.s. She was merely expressing her disappointment regarding her past experiences with LSEs, not so much insulting the entire race. Relax...
I understand she was grieving and afraid, but she was projecting her untrue fear that all LSEs want an inhuman, non-complex dog instead of a living, breathing EII for a mate as the truth, and it is simply not true. There is no need for me to calm down. I am calm. Yes, she was generalizing, and when I see someone I care about not only experiencing an irrational fear that any and EVERY dual of hers will be immature but also proposing it publicly, I'm going to call the crap, crap. That's what is great about having me as a friend.
As a general trend, thus far, it's true. Trends are dependent on how many ass holes you observe given all the ass holes you observe.
Even the crazy LSE who come here; their vision of the perfect EII is the woman who can't do anything for herself, who is helpless and needs them so much to do things for her. I say it ALL THE TIME THAT AN EII JUST CAN'T ARRANGE THE ACTIVITIES IN THEIR LIVES BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY TO CHOOSE FROM THAT THEY GET SCATTERED IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS, MENTALLY; THAT'S ALL, ARRANGE THE DAMEN ACTIVITIES AND AN AN EII WILL FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THESE THINGS DONE.
Just because you love me and want to see me happy, it's not going to make a sane and normal LSE love me. Get that. You have to understand that.
Let me tell you the latest and greatest LSE thing that I've been told thus far "I want an open relationship, where you come, fuck me, and leave." I was like *um, do you know who you're asking this from? Just in case you missed it I'm a conservative, traditional person.* I have a very obvious "I go to church and help out the homeless in my community" persona that I wear when I date and I get this? How does this happen? HOW? I feel like every single LSE I meet is dishonest about their intentions, horny, and hung over some vision that isn't real.
What are they looking for?
a. Their own personal idea of physical attraction that has nothing to do with reality. The closer to the way they look like an SEE the better, big soft baby like faces and eyes.
b. Their own contrived standards of compatibility that is somewhat unreasonable to me and my type
c. That I'm probably wealthy
d. someone to just have sex with them as a convenient prostitute
You can mix and match the above in any number of ways.
I almost feel like Feeler types are much more sensitive and flexible in their choice of mates. Take you, I'll name all the ESFp and every one of them that's single, strait and available would want to date you and have a try at a normal relationship with you.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-07-2013 at 03:14 PM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html