Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
Often it's best to take rumors w a grain of salt....especially if one has high blood pressure.
Indeed. Luckily my BP is low enough that doctors tell me many people would pay good money to have the same.

Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
What I find most interesting is that the 4's 'Idea' is that of Holy origin, that being that our being itself simply is us and that the holy ideas merely obscure the real being that is ourself. I found this most profound when you discussed your food preferences which tended to make you more relaxed and also confident rather than dismissive.
I'm also pretty confident when dismissing people for being stupid and babyish, which are the most frequent triggers for it. Regarding this holy idea:

Four – Holy Origin, the perception and understanding that all appearance is nothing but the manifestation of Being; I am connected to Holy Origin and so is everyone and everything else.


It would be nice to believe this is true and it's something I definitely examine intellectually, but it's not a state of being that I feel except in exceedingly rare flashes that fly away the moment they appear.

[1]Because our ego mind is profoundly cut off from the ground of Being, it needs constant support and reinforcement, otherwise its inherent unreality will be revealed. The Four's ego agenda is to sustain a particular identity, to be an individual, and the ego goes about that impossible task in the best way it knows how. But when the ego activity slows down and rests, we become aware of Being itself as the source and origin of our true identity. This is not a concept or a belief, but a direct experience of our identity as Essence. We do not, and cannot, do anything to be ourselves. The more we try to become a particular image or idea of ourselves, the more we lose the immediate contact with the rich, delightful contact with our true self as Being. [2]We see that we are not separate from anything, that our true nature partakes of the whole of reality: that all parts of the universe are manifesting a tremendous creative intelligence, and that the self is an aspect of that creative flow, and cannot be otherwise. We understand that the source of everything is the core of our true identity—that it is creating and sustaining the self always. The recognition of this brings a feeling of exquisite delight in simply resting in and being one's true identity.


So:

1 - This distinct and even unusual identity is something I cultivated as a kid but eventually found was wasted effort as I naturally stood apart for reasons of interests, values, and attitude. So while I might lack sureness in the direction of certain personal traits, there's never been any doubt as to who I am, which I figured out at a very early age is someone who is just passing through this world, though at the same time being eternally of this world before the transient emergent conglomeration "I" existed and ever onward after.

2 - This is something I'm slowly approaching through eastern species of monism (and with which I find similarities in Spinoza), but again it's a deliberate and slow-going practice. In fact, given a reflexive tendency toward pyrrhonism and a rejection of theism (at least in the crude xian skygod fashion*) and the supernatural I have doubts as to whether it can be achieved in my life.

This "holy origin" isn't really prominent in my daily existence except as a deficiency that I sometimes remember a) exists and b) requires work. All in all, to the extent that this is present it's subservient to the accumulation of knowledge. It's not my origins that concern me but my state at my final destination.

Take stock of your motivated biases and review the evidence again.

* After becoming a militant atheist in the 3rd grade as a result of reading the KJV, these days it's my advice to those who profess to hate god to invent a more personally suitable deity than the one they've been handed by society. If you're going to tangle with imaginary beasts they might as well be friendly ones.