New to the forum- typing by VI

**The Exception** · 06-12-2005, 06:54 AM

zzzzzzzzzzz

**stefana** · 06-12-2005, 07:43 AM

//

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-12-2005, 08:55 AM

If you have a good idea what you look like you can go to my website and do some comparisons to other people of the same type if you are a little unsure.

found here ...
http://socionics.hopto.org/

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-12-2005, 09:01 AM

My two guesses are either ESTP or ENTP ... I highly suspect you are actually ESTP taking the way that the jawline is shaped and eyes beam. But ENTP is my second guess, though you don't quite look like an ENTP.

I could be wrong, though ...

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-12-2005, 09:38 AM

Laura ...

ESTPs ...

**CuriousSoul** · 06-12-2005, 09:56 AM

An ESTP librarian just strikes me as a bit unlikely. According to socionics.com conflicting types can look similar:

A secondary feeling one could get from the picture is that John has a slight ISTj look about him. Often, such similarity in appearance happens between conflicting types. In this case ISTj and ENFP are the types, which share conflicting relations.
http://www.socionics.com/advan/sbs.htm

Sometimes this really appears to be the case, so how about INFJ then, that would fit with the lurking too. :wink:

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-12-2005, 10:07 AM

Actually, INFJs have slightly different features that do look very similar, but not totally. There are more documented ESTPs with jaw lines shaped like Laura's than INFJs ...

However, she could very well be an INFJ ...

INFJ pictures ...

**rainbow** · 06-12-2005, 11:16 AM

Without knowing what other people thought, I had a look, and I looked on the type of smile you had. The eyes don´t look as glad as the smile itself. And considering the way you presented yourself.

>>rmcnew... the ESTP ladies you brought in have another smiles that look more profound. Look at their eyes. Not the same as Laura´s.

I say with doubt of course.. who can be sure only through a photo...
that you may be an IxTP. Possibly INTP. And the smile that I´m not sure of wether it´s more of an ISTP-artificial smile or a sorrow INTP-smile.
Well... it´s most likely to be wrong but I feel pretty "sure" you are
IxTx.

**indigoroom** · 06-12-2005, 11:36 AM

mmm, ENTP as first thought..

**XcaliburGirl** · 06-12-2005, 01:08 PM

INFj was my first reaction. She doesn't look ESTp at all, imo.

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-12-2005, 03:21 PM

She could be either ESTP or INFJ, you really can't type someone effiently going off of V.I. without atleast observing how someone interacts for a period of time.

Even then you could confuse someone with their duel ... I might have done that with some of the people on my website I am typing mistakeningly for all I know; sort of why I wanted feedback from people on what type they looked like with a description.

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-12-2005, 03:45 PM

......

**indigoroom** · 06-12-2005, 04:54 PM

you really can't type someone effiently going off of V.I. without atleast observing how someone interacts for a period of time.

Every type with whom I've had a long time friendship is sometimes pretty easy for me to V.I. It's not 100% accurate but I have success even at typing at first sight.

I have never read anything about V.I. I just remember their facial patterns and charm.

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-12-2005, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by krae

you really can't type someone effiently going off of V.I. without atleast observing how someone interacts for a period of time.

Every type with whom I've had a long time friendship is sometimes pretty easy for me to V.I.

Yeah, but you have to get a feel for how the behave first ... if you just go off of V.I. then there is close to a 50/50 chance you will get them right if you are really good. That is part of the reason I have to retype some of the people on my website occasionally because I find out people who I think are one type based on looks are really their duel type once I get a good feel or indication of their personality. If I discover something about a person's personality I did not realize before that coinsides more with another type, I can simply retype them and I learn how to do better V.I. in the process; it is win-win for everyone because it gets more accurate over a period of time and I am able to produce more accurate listings with practice.

That is one of the main reasons that I have the "PROJECTED TYPE V.I. PICS" section on my website. I am typing people I know, which gives me an advantage over people who just type by looks alone because I interact with these people; they are also very very good quality pics, and it is very rare to find a good listing of pics of people who have various types or arn't black and white.

**metaiwan** · 06-12-2005, 05:18 PM

Laura,
I'm no good at VI but you seem similar to either ENTps or INFjs I know

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-12-2005, 05:34 PM

I just retyped some ESTPs as INFJs after considering who is most extraverted or introverted among them.

http://socionics.hopto.org/PROJECTED...ICS/index.html

**rainbow** · 06-12-2005, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by rmcnew

And no, I don't want to hear any crap from J types about the website being perfect or totally scientifically undeniable before doing anything with it. I am a type P and if I tried to act like J I would never get this website up at all. If I am wrong, I corrrect myself and go with it.

I´m not a only J.

I use to meditate (don´t like that word really) but not in a certain manner. It also may happen by itself when I get tired.
Very well, it has been quite rare among those different "impressions" I get, that I "hear" someone say something. And when it happens it´s obvious that some word(s) are different compared to "normal" language and thus reflecting and pointing at an unconscious meaning.

But so, suddenly late last night while resting I suddenly "hear" a sentence,
all clear. But then I forgot some words because I was very tired.

It was:
"Hmm.. about that xxxxxxx analysis, I´ll give it a word."

I´m not sure of the light colored words but at least something close to. Normally people may say "I´ll give it a thought and that was the meaning of the sentence above too, except for having the word instead, as a verb.
So I wonder, why was it word instead of thought?

Who "said" this? Well.. it is very strange to tell, it was Mr rmcnew.
It was regarding the principals behind his V.I.-page of his.
That comes as a feeling with the sentence.

Earlier yesterday I was confused because I couldn´t grab rmcnew´s
entire point in his way of emphasizing at looking at someone without
getting to really know which type.

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-12-2005, 06:25 PM

Basically what I was saying was that the purpose of having a website up about Visual Indentification was so that I could learn V.I. and other people can have something that would eventually be reliable enough to gauge a persons photograph accurately if possible. I think it is hard for J types to understand that Ps do not gauge and learn informations like Js, they like to do experimental bendable analysis whereas a J would like something that has indefinate reliability and can not be questioned.

**rainbow** · 06-12-2005, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by rainbow

I´m not a only J.

And some people may be only P.

**The Exception** · 06-13-2005, 12:58 AM

Thanks for your guesses. I actually test as an INTj, and a pretty strong one at that. The first three letters have always been strong, with the last one being less so. I took both the Socionics Type Assistant and the long 300 question test. On the 300 question test, I had a 92% probability of being INTj and a 8% probability of being INTp. My third highest type was INFj but not above the threshold of reliability. ENTp, another common guess, was 6th or 7th down the list.

I identify strongly with the INTj description, down to the parts about the point of least resistance and all that. My

is weak, ruling out ESTp as a possibility.

I don't think one can solely go on VI alone to identify type, although I do know some people whom I'm certain of their type and they look uncannily similar to the people in the photos of that same type. There are a couple of types I can sometimes detect by VI but for the most part I don't have this ability.

Since ENTp and INFj were the most popular guesses, I'm curious to know more about what made you guess that. I do identify with some aspects of these type descriptions but not as much as INTj.

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-13-2005, 02:49 AM

Are you sure you are INTJ and not INFJ?

Sometimes the type that people consistently test for is not really their type ... just because you test as INTJ does not mean you are INTJ.

For example, I tested INTJ even

I'll even let you look at the test
http://www.socionics.com/sta/sta-1-r.html?3:mpSR{kBitKwUb@VvlsD-oVZS1ktlHYd/W-JXxSEp:VOsZw1U2tToeQw1-!1mvlO1TNvguuhkrsUlauZQ:

But after reading all the descriptions, the only one that fit me 100% was ENTp , and other INTJs on the board were always telling me I did not seem to think like an INTJ. I've actually discovered that my thinking method is closer to a P, and I am really an extravert who feels compelled to be alone somestimes out of acting expedient and pissing off other extraverts to avoid conflict, and I take hugh risks, and I have driven dangerously and liked it. Do I types do that at all?

Would an INTP ot INTJ look like this and do these sort of things?
http://meetme.hotornot.com/r/?mb=GMHLSZB&key=BVT

What an INTP or INTJ be a player and good at it? Probably not, but maybe.

Even odder is this stange behavioural pattern that I have noted that other ENTps have that seem errily familar, like we are twins in behaviour. It seemed rerally spooky when I first started to realize the similarities.

So yeah, I would not base your type on an on-line test alone. Talk with other people of various types and do some comparisons first. You'll probably find another type fits you better if this one doesn't.

**The Exception** · 06-13-2005, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by rmcnew

Are you sure you are INTJ and not INFJ?

-->Pretty sure I'm an INTj although I suppose its possible I'm INFj. Its just that when I compare function orders and type descriptions side by side, INTj fits better. I really don't think

is my 1st function, having it in 3rd place suits me better.

Sometimes the type that people consistently test for is not really their type ... just because you test as INTJ does not mean you are INTJ.

For example, I tested INTJ even

I'll even let you look at the test
http://www.socionics.com/sta/sta-1-r.html?3:mpSR{kBitKwUb@VvlsD-oVZS1ktlHYd/W-JXxSEp:VOsZw1U2tToeQw1-!1mvlO1TNvguuhkrsUlauZQ:

--> I also got INTj on that test although the test said I may also want to consider INTp, which fit somewhat, but not as well as INTj

But after reading all the descriptions, the only one that fit me 100% was ENTp , and other INTJs on the board were always telling me I did not seem to think like an INTJ. I've actually discovered that my thinking method is closer to a P, and I am really an extravert who feels compelled to be alone somestimes out of acting expedient and pissing off other extraverts to avoid conflict, and I take hugh risks, and I have driven dangerously and liked it. Do I types do that at all?

-->I identify with some of the ENTp stuff, but certainly not 100%. Actually, there are no types I identify with 100%. For me its a matter of finding the one that seems to be the closest fit.
I'm not entirely closed off to the idea of me being a P instead of a J. My P/J scores have typically been fuzzy on type tests. For a long time, I struggled between deciding if I was INTJ or INTP but what clinched it for me was doing functional analysis. My

and

are stronger than

and

pointing to INTj (INTP Myers-Briggs) rather than INTp (INTJ Myers-Briggs). The Myers-Brggs test scores me as INTP. If I was a P, perhaps I'd be an ENTp rather than an INTp because I would still have stronger

and

. However, ENTp just doesn't seem quite right as my type.

-->In another post, I'll paste the INTj, INFj, and ENTp descriptions and point out what fits and doesn't fit me.

--->I'm not that much of a risk taker. I'm the type who takes the careful route. I will take calculated risks, but only after I've analyzed the situation thoroughly. The risks I take are usually pretty minor, like trying exotic new foods. The worst could happen is that I don't like it. On the other hand, I don't smoke, get drunk, do drugs, or that type of stuff. I exercise regularly and eat healthy. In particular, I don't like taking health related risks. This is one reason why I thought I might be an INTj because its hidden agenda is to be healthy, which I definitely relate to. I don't gamble. I don't take risks with money except investing some money in stocks so that I'll have adequate money saved for retirement. But I also make sure to invest some in more secure bonds. I don't engage in extreme sports. I do have a tendency to drive over the speed limit though, and have gotten a couple of tickets. However, I'm careful about where and when I'll speed. On a wide open freeway, yes. On a city street with lots of pedestrians or under really icy or rainy conditions, no.

Would an INTP ot INTJ look like this and do these sort of things?
http://meetme.hotornot.com/r/?mb=GMHLSZB&key=BVT

What an INTP or INTJ be a player and good at it? Probably not, but maybe.

--> I'm certaintly not the type to post a photo at hot or not.com. I'm not concerned about being "hot" or being a player. If I tried to be a player, I'd be lousy at it. I have been told by some that I'm attractive but I think that's different than being "hot". I don't dress in a sexually revealing way, I usually dress inconspicously, and don't want that kind of attention. I'm pretty oblivious to what's fashionable and what's not.
I would think most INTPs and INTJs would think the same. I think the types of people who do these things likely have dominant

Even odder is this stange behavioural pattern that I have noted that other ENTps have that seem errily familar, like we are twins in behaviour. It seemed rerally spooky when I first started to realize the similarities.

--> Please tell me what you've noticed.

So yeah, I would not base your type on an on-line test alone. Talk with other people of various types and do some comparisons first. You'll probably find another type fits you better if this one doesn't.

**Waddlesworth** · 06-13-2005, 06:17 AM

well, from the general consensue we know you are either an extraverted perceiver or an introverted judger so its a start.

Im thinking you should give us a nice long description as well as your own opinion. the socionics.com test is pretty accurate so long as you're honest(although i do know an istp that tested as an enfj). I really don't thin VI is reliable enough. I mean, it works for me 80% of the time, but it requires animation. animate that cute lil' face of yours(with words) and we'll be able to give you a better opinion.

**The Exception** · 06-13-2005, 07:45 AM

Since there is a possibility of me not being INTj, I am going to cross compare the descriptions of these three types, indicating what fits and what doesnt.

First, the INTj:

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.” -
Thomas Jefferson.

--> Well I have often questioned the existence of a god. I'm an agnostic right now but I don't think this is very indicative of type.

Maximilian Robespierre - the leader of the Great French Revolution (1789 - 1794).

1. "I think therefore I am". He is a man of developed logical faculty, a strong capability for analysis. He knows how to dig to the essence of things, to reveal their internal structure. "Providence has created myself for quiet study work, to which it dedicated all the rapture of my soul", – said Thomas Jefferson, during whose presidency the territory of the US has grown nearly double. He considers all situations of life from the logical viewpoint.

--> Very descriptive of me. This is what I spend a great deal of time doing.

2. "Justice is my trade". This is a type of a revolutionary or a political conspirator.

--> I don't see myself as a political conspirator or a revolutionary. I may come up with ideas for change but I often keep these to myself and I don't really act on these ideas.

In a conflict situation he usually organizes a committee to punish the offender.

--> I have occassionally contemplated this but I would be unlikely to act on it.

He believes that everything in the world must be logical and consequently just.

--> Yes, yes, yes

He is capable of neglecting his own profit and safety when defending the offended.

--> I suppose I could but I'm almost never in such a situation to necessitate that.

He sets for himself very high requirements.

--> Yes. I have very high standards. I can be very perfectionistic and hard on myself.

Unless somebody else takes care of him, he can easily drive himself to starvation.

--> Not really. There are times where I have put off eating because what I was doing was so interesting I didn't want to stop. But eventually the gnawing hunger pangs get the best of me and I have to eat something. I can't imagine this ever getting to the point of starvation.

Garibaldi, Robespierre, Dzierzhynski, Jefferson are revolutionaries who devoted themselves to an idea.

3. Ascetic. He appears extremely uncompromising, often looks down with a piercing look from under his philosopher’s forehead.

--> Not really. I'm not sure I place a lot of stock in VI stuff but its fun to think about.

He toughens himself, training for the cold, starvation, losses and disapproval of others.

--> I don't see a need to train myself for cold or starvation- I pretty much take for granted that there will be enough food and shelter. Sometimes, though I do anticipate possible losses or disapproval. I make sure to have enough money saved should some emergency happen for instance.

The only aspect where he willingly concedes to his partner is the issue of dressing, taste and routine chores.

--> Chores, yes. I hate doing and thinking about those. I wouldn't want my partner though to tell me what to wear or not to wear or what artwork to hang up on the wall. That would really get on my nerves.

The necessity to be responsible for these things irritates him.

--> Yes. I wish I didn't have to think about chores. Dressing too. To me, its just too much work to always look beautiful and fashionable. My hair is such that all I have to do is wash and brush it. I don't normally use other hair products, not even conditioner. I don't bother with perfume and rarely wear make-up. I couldn't tell you what clothes or currently fashionable.

Usually he even does not notice the quality of his clothing.

--> This was more of a problem when I was younger. I literally had to have people point out what was and wasn't appropriate. I didn't pick up what was fashionable by osmosis like most people could. Today, I'm more attentive but I still go for what's appropriate and looks tasteful rather than what's trendy at the moment. I do care about looking put together, I don't want to look scruffy. Still clothes are not a big priority in my life. There's so many other more interesting things to do and think about. Like socionics. :wink:

He does not tolerate orders.

--> Generally true. Alot of it though depends on the wording. Someone talking in a commanding tone of voice and/or someone who doesn't explain the importance of doing something does not sit well with me. However, I don't mind being told what to do if:
1. The person uses a friendly, noncommanding tone of voice.
2. I clearly understand why its important.

His dual The Bonvivant, as if being aware of that, involves him into work not by direct orders but begins to fuss about, to make a lot of unnecessary movements – then The Analyst gets involved, and the work goes rapidly, logically and soundly. He himself does not show much initiative, is reclusive and silent.

--> I seem to get along well with ESFjs. I haven't thought alot though about how I relate to them work wise.

Its true I'm somewhat lacking in initiative, and I'm reclusive and silent. I don't do well setting long term goals for myself or long range planning. That kind of stuff exhausts me. I think I'm better when someone else devises the plan or structure for me, and I follow it or modify it as needed. I do think of long range possibilities,

at work but I don't enjoy drawing up a detailed implementation plan.

?

?

I am generally a quiet person although I can be quite animated with people I know well and when conversing about topics of great interest to me. Most of the time though, I don't talk much. I'm poor at small talk and my interests are different from most people. I'm oblivious to things that people often want to talk about like sports, politics, pop culture, etc. So when I'm in a group of people talking about such subjects, I tend to stay silent because I really don't have anything to contribute.

Someone had also mentioned that some ENTps will mistakenly think they're introverts, possibly for the reasons above. I still don't think I'm an ENTp but I'm not entirely closed to the possibility.

Unlike ENTps I know, I don't think quickly on my feet in conversation. What I say to people is usually well thought out. If I say something witty, its not on the spot, its something that's been going through my head and I wait for the right time and place to say it.

4. Somewhat tender and capricious.

--> Possibly. I know people who would describe me this way.

His self-sacrifice in defending justice becomes especially mind-boggling, if one knows that he feels irritated by everything that disturbs silence and the measured way of his life.

--> I'm not sure I fully understand what this statment is getting at. I can be rather set in my ways about how I live my life and certainly don't want people interfering with that. I do care alot about justice but I don't think I actually put a whole lot of energy into defending it. I will complain about it possibly, but I'm probably not likely to take it any further than that, including self-sacrifice.

He is very concerned about living healthy.

--> Yes. One of the reasons I identify with the INTj type is due to the hidden agenda to be healthy. Although INFj would also share this and its possible I'm really that type.

Thusly Rene Descartes "considered health as the principal of mortal goods second to the Truth". In his youth he often tends to a cheerful lifestyle with many friends, games of chance, booze.

--> I was more extraverted when I was younger but I never had a huge number of friends. I didn't really participate in games of chance and I never indulged in alcohol.

Later he comes to the conclusion that all those things are something other than what he really needs. He is not very ambitious but he does not tolerate when others get ahead of him in their career, out of the same feeling of justice.

--> I have to admit I'm not overly ambitious. I get exhausted just thinking about all the energy and time one would have to put in to climb the corporate ladder. I do want to be successful in the sense that people perceive me as competent and knowledgeable in my field. I want to know that I'm of some use to society and that I'm contributing in some way. I want fair pay for what I do but I don't care that much about a high salary. I just want to make enough money to live comfortably and be able to pursue my interests. I don't care much about titles either. I don't need to be at the top and don't want all that stress and responsibility anyway. I just want a title that reflects my level of expertise. I don't care about being CEO or top dog but it would also bother me if I really work hard for 20 years at the same company and never moved up, always being at the bottom. As far as others getting ahead in their career, whether or not I envy them depends. If I know they have worder harder or have more experience than I do then I don't envy them. On the other hand I can be very envious if I perceive that I'm putting in more effort then they are, if I think I have more expertise then they do, or if I've been at the company longer than they have, and yet I get passed over that would really sting.

He finds himself in an especially hard situation when having to obey a boss whom he does not respect.

--> Yes, very true. Fortunately this situation has been rare.

5. "He led a happy life who sheltered himself well". He is very secretive, dislikes uninvited visitors.

--> I am hard to get to know. There's a lot that I don't readily share about myself. I think part of it is that I know my thinking is different than most of the mainstream so I wonder if they would really understand. I'm an N in a mostly S world and probably an Introvert (I'm still not convinced I'm an ENTp). I also dislike uninvited visitors as well as people dropping by unexpectedly. Since very few people know where I live, this almost never happens.

He sharply reacts to reprimands, but sometimes hides his irritation under an artificial smile.

--> Yes this is true. I have been told that I smile alot but that my smile has a nervous quality to it. I can be perceived as being happier than I really feel. I'm curious, did you sense any of that in my photo. Also, I have a wide smile in most of my pictures. I think this might make me look more feeling or extraverted than I really am. Just a thought.

Your dual (psychologically complementary type): Hugo, The Bonvivant (ethical-sensory extrovert).

--> Where can I find one? I get along well with this type. Of course if I'm an ENTp, that would be my activity relation, still a decent match.

Now coming to think of it, I don't identify as much with INTj as I initially thought. I would say this description is maybe about 60-70% accurate for me. But there are no socionics descriptions I agree with 100%

I guess I identify with INTj in the sense that their function order matches what I perceive in myself. Strong

and

, weak

and

I think

might very well be my PoLR and

my hidden agenda. If I'm INFj this wouldn't change but if I'm ENTp my PoLR would be

and my hidden agenda would be

- I suppose this is possible but I would have to think more about it. Could you describe more what Fi PoLR and Fe hidden agenda is like?

Also, I think I'm in the alpha quadra. INTj and ENTp are in alpha but INFj would be in delta which doesn't fit me nearly as well.

I'm posting this at 2:30am and I'm exhausted. I'll post my analysis of INFj and ENTp tomorrow. I would be interested in your feedback.

Laura

**rainbow** · 06-13-2005, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by rainbow

.. I feel pretty "sure" you are
IxTx...

When considering tests and self analysis one could either reflect the former personality, the present one or the one that we strive to be like. This can give quite different results.

One thing that also struck me sofar is that INTJ-people are often dark haired. ?

**rainbow** · 06-13-2005, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion

Maybe that is because the average person in America has dark hair?

I live in Sweden, at least until 10-20 years ago, most people are blondes here.

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-13-2005, 05:13 PM

I don't know why I didn't look through the INTJ section on my website before, but I think it is possible from V.I. that Laura is INTJ, because some INTJ females do look similar to Laura. Although, INFJ is rather close to INTJ and I suppose there could always be some people who are borderline T/F to exhibit physical traits typical of both, which could explain the INFJish appearance.

Laura ...

Here are some INTjs

**Waddlesworth** · 06-13-2005, 08:44 PM

Laura, I have noticed from alot of INTj's(only females that im aware of) I have met that they often private have a novel or book that they are writing, and they usually work on this book over a long period of time.

They also like to invent little games or sing to themselves alot, which sometimes annoys me but is always very clever.

Do you have any little creative eccentricities or hobbies that you wouldn't mind divulging?

**Angel von Himmel** · 06-13-2005, 09:05 PM

Do you believe you have a photographic memory or seek world domination?

Sounds stupid, but I knew an INTJ girl that was like that and she couldn't really achieve either. Bright, but not that bright.

Creepy- · 06-13-2005, 11:12 PM

I knew an INTj girl who wanted to create spectacular new things but didn't see the point in reading books or studying a topic thoroughly before making something new. It was pointless trying to point out the flaw in her thinking.

Creepy- · 06-14-2005, 12:14 AM