.
Haha, no frigging way, your mum sounds like the mum of some guy I know. I got to know him through a friend of mine, we used to drink at his place, she did the same and still does I think. Once she stormed in and drank his booze and I heard "mum, stop that", it was 7 years ago, but I still laugh out loud when I recall that, plus she would ask that guy "what are you watching, what are you watching?" all the time.Originally Posted by Agarina
Funny thing is, it's the same guy after a few shots started arguing with my friend there is oxygen on the Moon and telling my chipped tooth is growing back, weird family. He has a younger brother whom I first saw and thought it is a monkey, it was even more hilarious when I learned friends call him monkey.
Lock your door.Does anyone have any advice on how I could deal with these issues more effectively?
Well, you're going to have to lock it somehow for the time you're busy in some way/don't want intrusions. Tried telling her beforehand you're busy and do not want to be disturbed for some time?
Your mum may be overprotective.
Wedge a shoe under the door to impede anyone trying to enter. It's an impermanent obstacle that can be excused as mere accident. When encountered it will create enough of a delay that you'll be prepared to receive a parental intruder.
Wrong dichotomy.
You're not very good with relations Agarina, especially if you have to ask about this here.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Neither are you. You have already proven your advice are terrific. Remember how you changed my typing, from gamma to alpha - even though you had CONFIRMED it and all, several times even. What a catastrophe if would've been if I had followed your relationship advice back then; I would've ended up with my superego or conflictor. I'm afraid I'd probably have killed myself by now, or worse, ended up an alcoholic single mom with no future. That's the kind of humanist you really are, Mariza. Think about it. Just think.
I'm a little doubtful you're delta as well, to be honest with you. I leave the possibility open, since we haven't interacted all that much so i dont know you too well. But with some doubt, especially in context with your intertype relations.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
LOL how about a new method of FINAL ISFp LOL
anyway fix your problems
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
There is almost always tension when a person lives with her parents after childhood, the territory, intrusions etc. Your problem is a global one. Parents are still getting used to the fact that their child has grown up and has her own personality and boundaries. Some parents never understand that. It's annoying but very human.
I think Aqua seems ILE, but don't generalize his behaviour over the whole type or Fe/Ti valuers. I know many ILEs who are very polite, ask permission and respect boundaries. In his videos Aqua seems like the Se-creative subtype, that might also have something to do with it.
I'm not saying that you're totally wrong though. The most intrusive type is EIE imo. It could be a personal thing though
Yeah, well, I'm not saying every Fe/Ti acts like that or that any Fi&Te couldn't. I'm also not saying that sort of behaviour is bad or good per se, it's all a matter of how people feel about it. I can totally understand why someone like Aqua could think having to ask for a permission to borrow something relatively unimportant, for example, would be a waste of time/a sign of mistrust/nitpicking/whatever. This is not meant to be an attack towards non-Fi-valuers. It's merely a personal observation on how people from different quadras seem to often act/feel differently about boundaries and how this can cause misunderstandings and conflicts. I'm not generalizing anyone's behaviour over all Fe/Ti-people, I used Aqua&my mom as examples of something I've seen in a lot of people. This includes folks that aren't ILE or EIE. I'm sorry if I sounded overtly aggressive or something. I clearly need to put more effort into shaping my posts.
I created this thread to get to hear other's experiences and ideas (- be they similar or contrary to mine) and thoughts/experiences on how these things can be dealt with. In the end I really don't care if the dichotomy we're talking about is merry vs serious or something else. It was just an assumption that made a lot of sense to me. In any case I'd rather not have this thread turn into a pointless Fe vs Fi rant.
Oh, you didn't sound aggressive at allI am always sceptical towards generalizations, weak
I haven't noticed anything of the kind tbh so I'm with the NTR crowd. A couple of suggestions concerning this problem: parents are generally poor at observing boundaries of their children; Aqua may have less regard for personal boundaries being sx/so, sx/sp's seems to erect more boundaries and have a greater need for privacy (is your mom so/sx by any chance?); you're not communicating the extent of your boundaries in a way that Fe/Ti-valuers can easily pick up on and your requests are getting lost in translation.Yeah, well, I'm not saying every Fe/Ti acts like that or that any Fi&Te couldn't. I'm also not saying that sort of behaviour is bad or good per se, it's all a matter of how people feel about it. I can totally understand why someone like Aqua could think having to ask for a permission to borrow something relatively unimportant, for example, would be a waste of time/a sign of mistrust/nitpicking/whatever. This is not meant to be an attack towards non-Fi-valuers. It's merely a personal observation on how people from different quadras seem to often act/feel differently about boundaries and how this can cause misunderstandings and conflicts. I'm not generalizing anyone's behaviour over all Fe/Ti-people, I used Aqua&my mom as examples of something I've seen in a lot of people. This includes folks that aren't ILE or EIE. I'm sorry if I sounded overtly aggressive or something. I clearly need to put more effort into shaping my posts.
I created this thread to get to hear other's experiences and ideas (- be they similar or contrary to mine) and thoughts/experiences on how these things can be dealt with. In the end I really don't care if the dichotomy we're talking about is merry vs serious or something else. It was just an assumption that made a lot of sense to me. In any case I'd rather not have this thread turn into a pointless Fe vs Fi rant.
now that i sort of have time, i want to kind of expand on my comments earlier...
your mom is not enfj.
http://socionics.us/theory/be.shtml
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...averted_ethics
everything you were describing is what an Fe base would NOT do. they know what to say and how to say it to get the result they want. your mom is really socially awkward, she has no idea how she is coming across to others like an EIE would be. Fe bases, especially the enneagram 3s, are very image focused. they fear rejection, and therefore are VERY careful to act in a way that others will respond positively to. she seems way more likely to be Fe PoLR than anything. that whole post = complaining about an Fe PoLR. the alcohol thing strongly suggested weak Ni and Fe, strong Si.
as an example of this extremely awkward behavior, a couple nights ago peter (discojoe on here, don't know if you know him....?) and i were talking when his SLI dad came in and asked if either of us had a pair of binoculars. we both said no. then he said "oh, well it looks like the neighbors are walking around their house naked." Then peter told him that the normal thing to do would be to just turn a blind eye, not to go looking for a pair of binoculars to spy on them. about 20 minutes later he came back, saying he found the binoculars and "upon further inspection, it appears to be a man with a long ponytail, not wearing a shirt." i died laughing, while peter yelled at him, shaking his head, saying "wow. you ACTUALLY followed up on that, even though i just told you how creepy it is. wow."
as for your mom as a person.. she seems like she wants your approval for whatever reason. like maybe she has issues with her parents or you remind her of her mom or something, i have no idea. joining in on your conversations with others/watching movies are just situations where she's trying to bond with you without thinking about how weird it seems to you
i agree with him completely on the former. if someone is laid back and you know that they won't care, it doesn't and shouldn't matter if you borrow their stuff without permission. not that you should with everyone, because obviously not everyone will be laid back like that. the latter probably has more to do with rational/irrational (but loosely)... it seems like you want there to be some clear rules about your property and he, being irrational, just doesn't care about those things so much. and while you may not agree with the first part of my post about your mom, there's a very big difference between overstepping boundaries like aqua was doing and just being awkward like your mom. it's common for an XLE to accidentally offend someone, but the way your mom was acting was just straight up awkward.
Eh? You're say my mom can't be EIE because Fe types don't overstep boundaries in a way I described, and then you're saying it's related to being or not being laid back? Are you suggesting Fe egos can't be laid back because laid back people don't care so much about boundaries and they do?
I'm don't know if I should even bother to answer tho the first part of your post. My mom is basically a textbook example of an EIE. Her psychological problems may account to why her Fe manifests in such neurotic ways sometimes, but dude, you're basing your typing of her as SLI (the total opposite of EIE) on one post, that is written by one person and focuses on a very small area of her personality. I don't see how E3:s fearing rejection is related to my mom at all. Strong Si because she drinks someone else's wine? Eh, no? She's more Beta NF than NBS ever, and Si polr as fuck. Her ability to relax and chill out is virtually non-existent, and if is she happens to be hungry/tired she yells at other people and makes a huge drama about how being a human sucks because your body forces you to eat and sleep all the time and then you have to stress about it. I'd like to see a Fe polr that is so extremely extroverted and people/atmosphere focused.
You're both more or less right.
There are huge difference between EJ temperament and IP temperament.
EJ temperament have Bold
Also EJ's have Producing
EJ and IP temperament are conflicting temperament, and as such the basic mode of life is different.
Also due to the
Her mom knows very well that she is crossing boundaries, but there is a compulsion to do it, because she wants that to be notices, she wants to be noticed.
My mom is EIE as well, and thru my life I've learned how to deal with her, and it's not about being nice. What I have to do is this. I have to tell her what she's saying is stupid/wrong, I'm right and she needs to listen to me and do what I advise. You would think this is abusive, but it's amazingly functional in dealing with her. I love her, but this is the only way I've learned how to deal with her, by imposing my will on her thru aggression and making very clear what my opinion is to her and how everything works. This is what her dual(LSI) would do. Luckily, as the benefactor, these are two of my mental functions as well as contact functions. I don't like to do this, but I can readily do it in order to emulate the behavior of her dual.
Maybe there is some tendency but I don't think it's very strong. It sounds like this is more an issue you have with your mom and not so much socionics related.
Since you value Te/Fi yourself it could be that you naturally percieve their behaviour as less intruding. Or maybe as an Se polr you are very sensitive to intrusions generally. Just some speculations.
Yep. When I lived with my parents, they used to enter in my room all the time without knocking, even when I was concentrating on homework or w/e. Usually the reason being "it's my house, I do what I want". Even though they are both Te-Fi.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Same here, although, doing homework is/has been an obligation. Don't think private stuff is and as it's called, it's private, that is, one doesn't want the other person to know for some time(?)
There is a difference, but it's just me and I can be wrong...
I mean, this way, you're signaling you're going to do the same to your kids, okay, but there are bounds.
yeah, Agarina, i am with @FDG on this... i really dont think what you are describing is type-related.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Why so pessimistic? The tone that you assume is very negativist; Fi is meant to adjust relations not open up threads and complain about what you see as inadequate when it comes to other human beings and especially to relationships.
" since my mom is one of the worst and affects me the most "
Fix it.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
This is the voice of nature impelling you to find your own roost.
Everything is type-related.
Positivism & negativism aren't synonymes for optimism & pessimism in Socionics. As far as I'm concerned they're tendencies to see what is present vs. what is absent. A positivist can well be pessimistic and a negativist can be optimistic. I don't know how they work in Maritsionics, and, frankly, I don't care.
Yeah, I'm working on it. The accommodation situation for students happens to be pretty bad so the wait is probably going to take a while.
a HUGE misconception about socionics. Could be why your typings are wacky. To understand socionics, first you need to get a better understanding of what socionics addresses. It's not something that is easily understood or explained.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
...except with parents.
Honestly, I have never had this problem, except with parents. In most cases, they will always see you as their kid and never listen to you. I could bet that even if I were to become the most recognized expert in the world in subject X, my mother and father would still think my advice is nonsensical. What can you do! Makes life more varied...
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Ouch.
Mine put a hell of a lot trust in my judgement and thinking. They're both masters of economic sciences with years of work experience & my dad has a company of his own, but they treat my economic opinions as equal to theirs. We can easily have conversations about politics, economics, philosophy, science, technology, you name it, that last for hours. It's only with practical everyday issues like knocking before entering a room that we crash instantly.
This sounds more like introverted/extroverted problem to me (provided that it is type related). I would have exactly the same problems with her if she was my mother. I even see some parallels to the behavior of my IEI brother. But that's the point, we don't often annoy each other that much, because wer're both introverted. It's the same with my mother and father.
You don't even know what she already tried. Maybe it's not her fault, did you ever think of this? No, because your only goal is to refute her self-typing.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
I called you both pessimist and negativist. Two separate ones.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That behavior goes against every description of Fe that I have encountered, as well as enneagram 3, most common type for EIEs.
Soooo much subjectivism going on in this thread.
Either this is not
related or is related to something else..
Because this is my problem with a lot of folks as well. The only people to properly respect this stuff is a few LII's and ESE I've met. Otherwise people are just impolite assholes. I can be impolite due to my weak ethics, but I've learned not to be as intrusive. The most intrusive individual I've known is a ILI guy and a SEE girl who I don't know that well.
Some of this is learned as well, people don't naturally become polite overnight, but as people get older these patterns become more set. It could also be
I agree that it's probably Se related.
On another note, I think there is the possibility that Agarina is LII not EII.
Don't hate me!!!
I'm with your mom you asshole. It's a long topic but I'd just say that you don't understand the concept of public space. Everyone today knows that there is a document called Constitution ("Magna Carta") but very few know that there used to be a parallel document called "Charter of the Forest". It existed with the very specific purpose of limiting the extension of what is considered private property.
Egoistical people don't seem to understand the concept that something doesn't belong to anyone in particular, so it's free for anyone to take it as they please. This is exactly what happens with the contents of the fridge when you live in a family. It's absurd that you expect people to wonder whom's that piece of cake or that soda. If it's in the fridge you can take it unless you've been told to keep something for a special purpose. They have no right to reproach you for taking it if they don't.
But most important thing of all is that you buy stuff to share it with your people and leave it in the fridge for them to take. It's not normal that you put stuff in the fridge only when it's four yourself. This parents understand well.
Learn to live in a group or live alone in a cave.
[
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
Yeah but not so much with your parents, or at the very least it's really hard to enforce. If it's with flatmates, then sure.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
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