A few things I am going to say that need to be said

[Angel von Himmel]

A few things I have to say that may need to be said here:

First, alot of what I do on this forum is theoretical and experiemental. I see approaches, variables, items, methods, etc. that coincide and I like to put them together and see what they do.Some of it may be way off, some of it may be way on ... its is hard to tell unless you actually try to do something with it. You know, when you theorize a list of variables and definitions and they can all apply, then how are you going to know whether you do anything with it? Has it ever occured to anyone that I experiement alot on this forum? Has it ever occured to anyone that I can not aim for complete accuracy, because it is impossible? It might do some of you good to lower your standards just a little, simply because people just can't pan out things you'd agree with all the time. It is obsurd to shove anyone into a neat little box like that and actually have anything good come from it.

Second, a few of you have absolutly nothing good to say and just come off as flamming bigoted jackasses to everyone virtually all the time. Actually, alot of people in this forum are like that. It isn't very conducive to any actual discussion of issues. It seems every time I try to strike up some sort of controversy over such a such a thing, I either obviously get a bunch of people who arn't sure whether they agree or not, yet can add something positive or constructive; or I get the degrading trolls who come in and say absolutly nothing viable probably to feel better about themselves. I prefer the former people.

And third, I have absolutly no problem challenging the established 'norm,' which means that I have no problem challenging people who think they are such and such a type. However, I never intend to do so with the intent to degrade a person or to totally run over them, which I have seen people do. I have absolutly no problem with 'conflict,' and I have absolutly no problem with other people 'disagreeing.' Even further, I have absolutly no problem with people concluding that they can doubt my abilities 'meerly because I disagree with a matter of commonly accepted terminology.' You are certainly welcome to do all of that, but the least people can do if anything at all is to keep an open mind. No just for my sake, but because it is what learned people do. I can not do this for you.

Make any conclusion you want out of this, I just hope some of you will see now what it is you are actually doing and hopefully quit, or keep it up if you are doing something positive for everyone.

[olduser]

issue one: Don't take any conclusions from your experiments seriously. The sample on this messageboard is very informed, and too small to be considered a substansial indicator of anything. It is a good way to discuss personal theories, but to make generalizations and predictions from anything concluded by members on this forum is bad idea, and unscientific.

issue two: The best way to sidetrack an audience is to make them think of their favorite subject: Themselves. The best method to get people to eventually reflect on themselves, what after all the fighting yelling and retailiation, is to insult them.

issue three: It's not worth it to disagree, because you will probably never have the chance to prove your ideas to a community bigger than 20 people. Take an approach that's simple. I understand Socionics is a big part of your life, but it's a very unrealistic part as well. Suppose it's winter. Socionics is a big ball of snow you roll down hills for the entire winter. The sun rises, and that sun is called the outside world and the rest of your life.

oh well.

Don't talk down to your twenty member audience is all I have to say.

[Angel von Himmel]

Don't talk down to your twenty member audience is all I have to say.

Maybe a few of the twenty deserve it, as indicated by the way they conduct himselves; to everyone else it may not apply.

[Kristiina]

Has it ever occured to anyone that I experiement alot on this forum?

I feel so violated!

ok, actually I'm joking. I always wanted to be a part of a test that I didn't know of... How would I react if I didn't know I was being tested.

I think MS is still intuitive :wink: , but I'd like to hear some other results you've gotten. And I'd like someone to argue with the theories in this forum... It actually had developed a new socionics branch here. I wish there was someone who actively reads other forums and publications and brings us back on earth.

[discojoe]

Am I a jackass?

[Angel von Himmel]

Well, the good thing about controversy is that it does get people to think, which is good considering that people need to think. That is actually why I do it. I mean, how boring would it be if everyone just agreed with each other all the time? Probably very ...

And as far as Mysticsonic being intuitive, I am still not so sure. There are some things he has done that I have always associated people who are more sensory, and over a long period of time not from just one instance.
I suppose that is probably one of the reasons why there was so much resistance from everyone concerning the issue, I couldn't really produce sufficent evidence using details I have personally perceived from over months and months, even though I think it may be sufficently evident. I noticed most people just blew what I said off by determining that MS was just being lazy or something, probably because I didn't list every incidence where I saw an equivalence in his behaviour towards certain issues, which is about what it would take.

[Angel von Himmel]

Am I a jackass?

Not always, mostly just obnoxious ...

[Kristiina]

The reason I said that MS was just lazy is because I have the same problem. I will explain the "important" part of the solution, but people assume that I meant something completely different. But if I explain more, people will miss the point completely (they'll ask about the logic behind the solution). If I would explain the whole thing, it makes the post HUGE. And then people might not even read it. So people assumed that I was a Sensing type.

I think I have generally gotten better at expressing my views, so this forum has been helpful for me.

[Capitalist Pig]

WORDS

tl;dr

[MysticSonic]

Yes, I've written very large posts myself, in which I thoroughly explained what I was talking about; no one reads those posts.

[diamond]

Yes, I've written very large posts myself, in which I thoroughly explained what I was talking about; no one reads those posts.

that's hilarious

[Creepy-bg]

A few things I have to say that may need to be said here:

...

Second, a few of you have absolutly nothing good to say and just come off as flamming bigoted jackasses to everyone virtually all the time. Actually, alot of people in this forum are like that. It isn't very conducive to any actual discussion of issues. It seems every time I try to strike up some sort of controversy over such a such a thing, I either obviously get a bunch of people who arn't sure whether they agree or not, yet can add something positive or constructive; or I get the degrading trolls who come in and say absolutly nothing viable probably to feel better about themselves. I prefer the former people.

...

Make any conclusion you want out of this, I just hope some of you will see now what it is you are actually doing and hopefully quit, or keep it up if you are doing something positive for everyone.

I hope you don't include me in this catagory Mcnew. I have noticed that much of the time when I interract with you it tends to come off a bit advesarial. Honestly there is no malice intended though.

[discourse]

McNew, you are so ENTp with that posting! That's why I like them.

[consentingadult]

@rmcnew: Aren't you basically saying that you want everyone to behave ENFp-style??

BTW: since when did you change over to Delta NF (I assume ENFp)? Does your new avatar signal your acceptance of your high anima?? Not uncommon for a male ENTp to find out he's ENFp after all... :wink:

[Olga]

Rmcnew,
don't be upset if people do not treat you the way you deserve. People realy do. My husband is always saying to me that whatever I do people will not appreciate it. So, do not have high expetctations for people but serve the God or the higher purpose. You feel you have to do it - so do it. There must be the reason behind your wish to do it. The more critics you will get the stronger you will be - exercise for your brains and nerves.

Are ther many people on the forum who creates new tests, models or new theories? I don't think so. Those who go on are prettly special. And i do agree with you, by creating something new like a new view or concept you have to figt your way through old perceptions/perspectives. But I believe whiule we all discussing and arguing at this forum - the magic or new discovery can happen at any time by anyone of us because we have got the right athmosphere of free critical thinking. And you do have to believe that what you are doing is important otherwise there is no drive to do it in a first place. You will be rewarded depending on the strengh of your belief.

[diamond]

Good thoughts from Olga. I agree.

[Joy]

bleh I haven't read this thread, but I've been think lately of newcomers. If they read some of these threads, many could be afraid to post. Sure, many of the regulars know who can handle criticism and who can't, but newcomers will just see threads where someone jumps down someone else's throat over seemingly nothing.

[Olga]

That was funny, .

I hope it is not that bad on the forum? Or it may be like in the army - you have to get a taste of critics. We have got lots of survivors though. One of them was Hugo who suddenly disappeared. It is amazing how many times he was criticised and he could handle it pretty well and was very persistent with his tests no matter what.

[diamond]

I thought Hugo is gaypog.

[Olga]

I am very retarded in this sense. I find it hard to guess the gender of the forum members by thier nick names, for example.

Why is he changing his names? You see I am pretty naive - I can't grasp things like that? Anyway I am pleased for him - half russian - half Hugo's - does not matter as long as it works. It will be his sinn to take others ideas and to say as if it is his own.
On the other hand if he has managed to create a new approach to just traslated info - it can be considered as his own. I am gald he is still around.

[Joy]

bleh I haven't read this thread, but I've been think lately of newcomers. If they read some of these threads, many could be afraid to post. Sure, many of the regulars know who can handle criticism and who can't, but newcomers will just see threads where someone jumps down someone else's throat over seemingly nothing.

I thought Hugo is gaypog.

Can people seriously be that retarded to not immediately recognize that gaypog is Hugo?

[Olga]

I think people already know that I love critics because it opens my eyes wider. So I really need others especially those who has got a sharper eye for what happens around me as I am too focused most of the time.
From time to time I got a kick from reality so that I will not forget what's it all about. I am always thankful for teachings: they are as hard as I deserve them to be.

But I take the Joy's post and put it in the place it really belongs now.

[Expat]

Why is he changing his names? You see I am pretty naive - I can't grasp things like that? Anyway I am pleased for him - half russian - half Hugo's - does not matter as long as it works. It will be his sinn to take others ideas and to say as if it is his own.On the other hand if he has managed to create a new approach to just traslated info - it can be considered as his own. I am gald he is still around.

If there is another test in Russian that works just like Hugo's, I think it's just coincidence (or maybe an indication that that is the best way to go). He did not come up with that test out of nowhere - it has been a long trial-and-error process.

[Olga]

Nobody wants to take the fame from Hugo/gaypog. Quite on the opposite, we are proud to have on this forum our own creative people who can furhter consolidate the power of the internet community.

But we need to state as often as we possibly can where the original idea comes from because we do not want plagiat - do we? For example, it is nice when people say: this whas the basis which... I picked up there and there - please, pay respect to those and those people. And this what I have done to it and therefore it is different and mine. It is nice to know where the building blocks come from.

[Angel von Himmel]

Nobody wants to take the fame from Hugo/gaypog. Quite on the opposite, we are proud to have on this forum our own creative people who can furhter consolidate the power of the internet community.

But we need to state as often as we possibly can where the original idea comes from because we do not want plagiat - do we? For example, it is nice when people say: this whas the basis which... I picked up there and there - please, pay respect to those and those people. And this what I have done to it and therefore it is different and mine. It is nice to know where the building blocks come from.

I probably should note that when I create a test, I never by my own intention do it in the same way that Hugo does it. If I just copied him all the time in his own approaches, it would look really lame. I actually prefer to go the complex fancy route anyways, because while the simple route may seem like it is more accurate, the reality is that simple can also mean more risks at a test taker being manipulatable. If a test taker can not predict what sort of answers he or she will get, it could actually add to the validity if the results arn't too sporatic. That is what I am trying to do ...