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Thread: Official Book Thread

  1. #121
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    My dad had me read this when I was a teenager. I think I'm going to read it again.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lathe_of_Heaven
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts. -Carl Corey(Corwin)CC

  2. #122
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    ^ weird that you posted that right before I was posting this... the titles could be in the same series


    I'm reading The Forge of God -> Anvil of Stars by Greg Bear again. It's about Berserker Von Neumann machines attacking the solar system and eating Earth (the second book is about the children who escaped earths destruction being sent out to seek retribution, hunt down the creators of the probes in accordance with galactic law).

  3. #123
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    Enders game

    Ender a clear LII?

    Ohohoh, off topic: I found a grafiti somewhere that read "no lie can live forever" that made me laugh

  4. #124
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    Darwin's Radio

    scifi book about a retrovirus that induces rapid speciation hitting humanity. the first part was a bit rough to read, lots of names to confuse and heavy on the genetic jargon, but after the half way point, when it becomes more about describing shit hitting the fan, I'm hooked into it.
    Last edited by bg; 08-29-2014 at 02:50 AM.

  5. #125
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    the books here were borrowed and recommended to me. i just finished hunter s. thompson gonzo papers vol 2 generation of swine. i wasn't familiar with a lot of the politicians and events that he talked about so a lot of the facts started blurring together. i finished reading it because of his funny way of describing things and the stories he had (are they actually true)? i'm curious now to read something else like fear and loathing that i could follow better.

    today i started beatrice sparks go ask alice. i haven't expected to like it from what ive heard about it. and im not any more impressed after starting it because the writing is really bad and its painfully obvious that its a fake teenage diary written by a clueless adult. but as i read more it has sort of a kitschy appeal and i actually find myself wondering what will happen next, like in a soap opera kind of way.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Let the Dead Bury Their Dead by Randall Kenan
    The White Mountains by John Christopher

    Reading "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy... don't really know what's going on yet, but it has this sort of postapocalyptic feel, which is exciting
    Loved The Road. Enjoy!
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Cool Any other end-of-the-world/apocalypse/dystopian suggestions?

    eta @Jimmers

    If you havent already you should read the MaddAddam trilogy by Margaret Atwood.
    I love this series. It is end of the world, dystopian, etc...

    The second novel in the series, The Year of the Flood, is the best imo.

    Also, if you cry when reading books, you will definitely cry when reading this series.



    In other news I am currently reading a book entitled Boy, Snow, Bird. I am on page 121 and so far it is pretty good. The character development is really starting to come along. I love the guarded nature of the main character. In many ways she reminds me of myself.
    Everything interests me but nothing holds me.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    today i started beatrice sparks go ask alice. i haven't expected to like it from what ive heard about it. and im not any more impressed after starting it because the writing is really bad and its painfully obvious that its a fake teenage diary written by a clueless adult. but as i read more it has sort of a kitschy appeal and i actually find myself wondering what will happen next, like in a soap opera kind of way.
    I did not like this book in the least when I read it back in high school. My best friend was -obsessed- with it and insisted I read it as we are, or were, both really big into reading. From the get go I could tell it would leave me unimpressed. I agree entirely with your comments on the writing style. It all seems incredibly forced. I know a bunch of other people who have read the book and like it, a few even call it their favourite. You are the first person I have come across who does not love the book.

    Also, if you like the suspense that is happening in Go Ask Alice you should try reading Swamplandia. I had had the book for years (I have this big problem with buying books...) and finally picked it up and started reading it when I saw the title on my current reading list. I finished it about a week ago. You think that you know how the story is going to go and the plot is going to develop and there is so much suspense and you start doubting whether or not the plot is going to go in that way, etc... etc... the way that the author drew out the suspense was wonderful. The book is not especially dramatic which also impresses me in regards to the author actually being able to build the suspense. Once you start this book and get about half-way through you do not want to put the book down.

    I also really love the message that Swamplandia gives and the perspective that the story is told through. The character development was awesome and I clearly cannot sing enough praise so I am just going to end this recommendation now and stop the gushing and verbosity.

    If you decide to read it, let me know what you think of it!!
    Everything interests me but nothing holds me.

  9. #129
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    finished reading operators and things by barbara obrien last night. it was really excellent. i highly recommend it to pretty much anybody here who is interested in psychology or the unconscious.

    its a memoir by a woman with schizophrenia who experienced a breakdown in which she traveled the country guided by the voices in her head. she later recovered by herself, enough to lucidly describe what she went through. in some ways it reads like a mystery or sci-fi kind of book because of the drama and intrigue created by the "characters" she describes. so its compelling just for that.

    the most interesting thing to me was that her illness seemed to grant her more insight into the workings of the mind than a healthy person could have. because there was a blurring in the line between her conscious and unconscious and she had more direct access to the workings beneath the surface. there was a lot of symbolism in what she heard and saw that could be translated into metaphors about how the brain works. like the voices that talked to her were capable of "removing the latticework" in her head, which was described as a layer underneath the skull containing built-in habit patterns. her conscious mind was a "sandy beach" and the unconscious was "waves crashing on the surface." she was immersed into an awareness of these things and describes them as they actually "existed." i felt like i got a first-hand account of what the mysteries of the mind really contain. in a way that i could never get from only reading theoretical material.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by bg View Post
    Darwin's Radio

    scifi book about a retrovirus that induces rapid speciation hitting humanity. the first part was a bit rough to read, lots of names to confuse and heavy on the genetic jargon, but after the half way point, when it becomes more about describing shit hitting the fan, I'm hooked into it.
    finished the 2nd book of the series, and ehh... it was an engaging read, but it never did get posthuman really, just some kids who communicate with glowing color changing freckles and mind fuck scent glands. i was dissappointed (but still enjoyed it, i guess)
    Last edited by bg; 09-08-2014 at 07:26 AM.

  11. #131
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    starting this...

    City at the End of Time

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    ... finishing this (for the 2nd time after some damn good 10 years) : Kate Chopin, The Awakening.

  13. #133
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    The Manuscript Found in Saragossa...probably in my top three fave publications for 1815 so far

  14. #134
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    i finished bukowksi's ham on rye this morning. i hesitated to read it because ive enjoyed his poetry and the more i learn about his personal life the more i think he's a dick, which ruins it a little. he's still a dick, but one with a little more color and nuance now, lol. he talks about growing up around the great depression and wwii and he had a pretty shitty childhood and was under a tremendous amount of pressure to be strong and macho. i felt for him a lot when he talked about being covered in hideous boils as a teenager. he talks about promoting nazi ideology in college because.... it amused him, even though he didn't agree... ? and i wondered if maybe there was a little whitewashing there but i guess some people get their kicks in odd ways.

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    im in the middle of kurt cobains journals. i saw it on a shelf at a bookstore years ago and it seemed disrespectful to me but for some reason i didnt feel bad about buying it when i came across it again a few weeks ago. maybe because of the time that has passed. some of it is uninteresting to me like the grocery list kind of stuff but other parts suck me in, especially when he's talking about himself or declaring rules about the world. i have been reminded of @rat1 a lot while reading it. he drew some comics that are pretty good. some of the stuff is crossed out and you can still see the words underneath and you wonder why he decided against it.

    i just started sagan's demon haunted world but i'm not far enough in to say anything about it.

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  17. #137
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    downloaded all the hunter s thompson stuff... sick of scifi for a bit, and i've never actually read his writting.
    Last edited by bg; 09-24-2014 at 12:02 AM.

  18. #138
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    finished the demon haunted world but i don't know what to say about it. the biggest thing i took from it was the importance of free thought to democracy and a free life. i'm not really sure why taking an oppositional stance to belief is necessary (but i think sagan wouldnt consider himself oppositional...though his attitude seemed patronizing..."these idiots can be forgiven, they are just human, but if they really knew better they would be skeptics...") he does make a really good case for putting money and efforts into science that isn't directed specifically into developing weapons and technology.

    next on the list is hesse's peter camenzind.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i finished bukowksi's ham on rye this morning. i hesitated to read it because ive enjoyed his poetry and the more i learn about his personal life the more i think he's a dick, which ruins it a little. he's still a dick, but one with a little more color and nuance now, lol. he talks about growing up around the great depression and wwii and he had a pretty shitty childhood and was under a tremendous amount of pressure to be strong and macho. i felt for him a lot when he talked about being covered in hideous boils as a teenager. he talks about promoting nazi ideology in college because.... it amused him, even though he didn't agree... ? and i wondered if maybe there was a little whitewashing there but i guess some people get their kicks in odd ways.
    Bukowski is overrated, I think a part of him is that he makes other folks feel a bit better about being less messed up vs Bukowski. Now that James Franco is making a movie about this book, may the long overdue transmission of his works into hipster obscurity and "So over it" commence.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmers View Post
    I have been slowly reading 1Q84, by Haruki Murakami, and I cannot get through the rest of Book II. It is such a strange book with a strange plot. I would still like to finish it though, but I'm going to start reading another book for now:
    1Q84 is probably Murakami's worst book and best book. It's impossibly pretentious and formulaic yet it is his most sincere and heart-wrought. It is his most romantic book, perhaps most autobiographical and likely most hopeful. It's the simplest of story done well.

    I feel most reviews of this book bugger it up with the typical "trend" and "whore" of literary criticism and literary pretense, yet the story is simple, but clothed in the most colorful of outfits. The story itself is very pretentious, crafted to appeal, yet from my reading of it I felt it was an angry pretense, "This is what you want... This is what you will get... May you choke on it..."

    I think this latent angry pretense drives the story at a pace that otherwise would have been meandering and turgid, it gave it energy and desperation which are emotions that shakes pretense's britches.

    I highly recommend reading this book to the end. It is the simplest possible story.

  21. #141
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    peter camenzind was good. similar sort of themes to other herman hesse books ive read but it didn't have as strong an impact. still impressive.

    as i lay dying had some funny, ironic moments but for the most part was kind of boring and confusing. my favorite character was the young boy. my mom is a fish

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    just finished girl with the dragon tattoo. i liked it. i sort of want to watch the movie now but just looking at the actors i know it won't be the same as it was in my head. it was simple...it didn't make me think about anything except the plot itself. but engrossing. actually, now that i think about it, one thing it got me thinking about was how the protaganists used unethical means to bring down bad people. but it was the only way they could have done it. and somehow it was ok? Fi, i think. i suppose the star was lisbeth salander, but i wasn't all that impressed with her. i really liked blomvkist.

    just started burroughs last words. so far, i go between reading the same lines over and over and not being able to make much of them and being struck by how his way of writing is similar to mine when i don't try to make my thoughts cohesive (not flattering myself; i mean style, not quality). makes me wish i could have met him. so far...drugs and cats. drugs and cats <3

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    Today I'm reading The Inferiority Complex and Paranoia Readdressed: a Study with the Implicit Association Test by Moritz and von Collani (2006). It's about couvert self-esteem vs. explicit self-esteem. I don't really recommend it unless you're after something dry and drastic.

  24. #144
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    Faust Part 1 by Goethe
    ἀταραξία

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    I'm deep in book debt. Soon I'll be having nightmares of all the books I haven't finished, chasing me and trying to incorporate me into their pages. I'm currently reading The Talisman, but still want to finish 1Q84. I also just bought two new books today with a gift card: The Complete Fiction of H.P. Lovecraft and The Greek Myths, by Robin Waterfield.

    i just need a few days of solitude to catch up. The trouble is getting it.
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

  26. #146
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    The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker (finally after all these years of hearing/reading about it)

    Toilet/Light reading material.. A Dictionary of Symbols (so much fun) and Starting Strength (great for technique and Rippetoe is a funny man)
    ἀταραξία

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    Book "What the heart wants"

    In search of true happiness our mind through logic and intellectual reasoning calculates a passage and steers us through the rocky reefs of our existence. The direction it sets however completely disregards and is often at odds with the internal and infallible compass which is our heart.


    Writer: George Czaus


    fb2: https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...l9OVzBuOFpjNkE
    epub: https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...TZ5TUhZWS0yMTQ
    mobi: https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...ThFbTBOTnE3Q1U
    pdf: https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...y0zNWxMTGY5VW8
    doc: https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...0NkQ2lZcmZUcnc

  28. #148
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    Collected works of Yeats.
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  29. #149
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    Vladymir Nabokov

    Despair

  30. #150
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    I just finished 2 A.M. at the Cat's Pajamas by Marie-Helene Bertino.
    It was cute.

    The People Inside by Ray Fawkes - my first graphic novel. I liked it.
    I love the themes that Fawkes went with. I also love the whole concept
    and the stories he chose to share and tell and relate. It vaguely reminds
    me of The Rules of Attraction meets Love Actually in graphic novel format.

    Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World by Murakami. I am a big
    Murakami fan. This is one of my favourite novels by him. If you havent
    read this one yet and you like his work I definitely suggest it. A lot lighter than
    1Q84 but just as fascinating. I just love the concepts and worlds he creates
    oh so much and how he plays on the human condition and how it evolves in his
    novels.
    Everything interests me but nothing holds me.

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    So right now I'm reading City of Thieves by David Benioff ... some sort of rewriting of the classic Bildungsroman in a Russian WW2 context - Leningrad 1941, when there was almost no food to be found and ppl ate pigeons and their pets.
    On the New Year's Eve night onion covered in drops of oil plus bread was a feast. A group of young folks see a German parachutist falling from the sky. He was dead and they are caught looting. And thus Mr. Lev Beniov, the protagonist, ends up in prison for one night, then in a Russian colonel's mansion. The famine was so harsh, that eggs were luxury. So the young dude and a companion are sent on a journey to get the holy Grail for the wedding of the colonel's daughter -- aka to find and steal a dozen eggs. Otherwise the woman would have been damned to have a wedding with no cake.
    So far I love the ironic take on the coming-of-age story and the tragic-comic combo.

  32. #152
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    I was reading Diary of a Mad Old Man, which is about this elderly japanese couple who each keep diaries of their increasingly bizarre sexual adventures with each other, which they each suspect / hope the other to be reading.

    For example, the husband keeps drugging the wife and fucking her in her sleep, which she enjoys a lot, but he is never quite sure if she is actually asleep or just pretending. He also enlists a friend to help take nude photos of her while she is drugged, she's extremely upset when she finds them but you feel from her diary she actually is a little turned on.

    It sounds terrible but it's actually kind of sweet.

    Then I had to return the book to the library and never finished. I should get another copy...

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    recently finished derrida's The Gift of Death and Literature in Secret. both are pretty much existential musts that deal mainly with the transposition of god throughout several schools of thought, and how a dialectic is created that sustains an inner connection to the divine, which is what ultimately renders death both as something inwardly apprehended and given from without, something I found rather resonant. now I'm reading zizek's Less Than Nothing: Hegel and the Shadow of Dialectical Materialism, which is pretty cool... his logic is pretty uniquely divergent for someone who's never tripped acid.
    Last edited by strrrng; 02-11-2015 at 06:34 PM.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Just finished



    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

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    The image is bigger than life, lol.
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

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    A while ago I started reading a book on How to Look Logical Using Lubricants and Penis Extensions

    ​A young writer on his way to maturity (I think he's 34 or so if I recall his short bio correctly) suggests a revolutionary take on Jungian typology. The style is not at all scientific though ...more like a bunch of essays between freethinking and stream-of-consciousness. There's an undercurrent of drama running through it that made my day earlier this week. Only read a few pages (quite long and spasmodic...but they had a weird pulsating quality that made me scan them). Later I got bored...


    "I don't want to post on this forum because this is personal and I'm a very private person, but I would like to share this with you here. I've always had an active, vivid imagination as a boy. I lived in my own world to say the least. I was put in art enrichment classes when I was seven because I showed a talent in art. By the time I was in fourth grade I developed a keen interest in science and by junior high I was taking advanced math, science, and art classes. I also loved putting together models, puzzles, taking things apart and putting them back together. As an adult, I've done mechanical work on my cars, remodeled parts of my house."

    "I'm trying to tell you. I use Fi in a neurotic fashion. This is something that is immediately relevant to our discussion. The more someone says that I am Fi dominant, the more I resist being recognized for Fi being a strength, which is classic Role. It is something I don't want to be recognized for. My ego likes solving problems and being recognized for my ability to do so. The excess personal and emotional demands make me more neurotic. As long as they aren't excessive, I'm alright."

    "I don't really like to talk about my feelings, unlike what I see so many Fi doms doing online, although I certainly have a lot of emotion. Maybe it's because I've gotten well past that adolescent angst. I never talked about my feelings then either, never wanting to burden anyone with them. I didn't have a computer at all until I was in my early twenties and I used to bottle everything inside. I never even liked talking about myself. Now it seems that's all I do. Ever since I've stumbled upon typology. Sometimes, it feels like it's just been a fucking curse."

  37. #157
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    Wow, you really are Fi. Thanks for demonstrating what actually being Fi entails.
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

  38. #158
    Honorary Ballsack
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    For some reason, I thought that Fi dominants would be the most emotionally mature of all(ethical rationality). All I see online is hyperreactivity and emotional volatility.
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

  39. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmers View Post
    For some reason, I thought that Fi dominants would be the most emotionally mature of all(ethical rationality). All I see online is hyperreactivity and emotional volatility.
    "ethical rationality" means being consistent in what you value&like, among other things.

    I find it hard to spot any personal affinity for the style and ideas in the book in question. I don't expect you to have a grasp of my (aesthetic or intellectual) preferences ...you probably need more examples to understand. So here they are. You are free to have your own assessment of the book though, if you get to read the whole thing ...why are you making such a fuss.

    Good, then why are you reading me though the lens of socionics? I've worked on myself long before I stumbled onto MBTI. The strength of socionics is also its weakness. The fact that people can use all IEs makes for a very muddled theory. How can you tell someone else is using a function and has a preference for that function? As far as I can tell so far, it is entirely subjective. There really isn't a standard, and if anything there exists double standards with regards with some types over other types. The only person who knows their preference is the person being typed, so don't tell me what my preferences are. You have no clue. (....)

    My "weak" logic? I don't even know what that means. It sounds denigrating though. I argue with doctors and nurses all of the time if there is something I don't want to do, but mostly if what I don't want to do doesn't make sense. I use subjective logic. (...)

    I went into medical technology so I could have income to pay off my student loans. I didn't really know that I would have to deal with a chaotic schedule for so long and that I would be dealing with difficult people directly when I signed up. I really just wanted to look at cells under a microscope and live a simple life, giving myself lots of free time to pursue my various interests. At first I wanted to be a doctor, but it wasn't something that I was driven to be. My grades sucked too. I loved taking college classes for the sake of learning and not for my GPA. I've always just wanted to learn and know things. Because my grades were low, the options for grad school were limited, and I would've preferred going to research, but the pay was really low, which wouldn't have helped my loan payments any. I was quite interested in stem cell research, but I was also very interested in immunological research.

    In my current job, I am supervisor of the chemistry department, so I oversee calibrations, quality control, inventory, maintenance, correlations, and training. I am also a generalist, so I work in hematology, blood bank, and urinalysis. One of my stressors at work is having to draw blood, which I would rather not do. I would much rather focus on impersonal side of the job. But, sometimes I do like to volunteer to draw blood. I just don't like having to be forced to do it. One of my goals is to get out my current lab and specialize in either cytogenetics or flow cytometry. That way I can focus on mastering a specialty that I find interesting and not have direct patient contact or work odd hours that place great stress on my family and myself. That is a few years down the road though.
    Last edited by Amber; 04-03-2015 at 08:03 PM.

  40. #160
    Honorary Ballsack
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    I received an email that fans were disappointed after they learned their book was edited. One replied by stating that it "was if the words were cherry picked to skew the reader in a biased way." So, by popular request, I released its unedited version as quickly as possible. Be warned, it actually is quite boring.

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
    written by Amber

    last evening you posted a few things that i probably attached the right meaning to.

    kindly stop.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
    written by Jimmers
    I'm really not sure what you are referring to.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____
    written by Amber

    I am sorry. I must have fast-forwarded something automatically.
    a while ago Kim wrote me a PM to NF-inform me that mby I was needlessly harassing a person who was quite affected by some traumatic experiences (Suede). I eventually conceded to treat him as a human being and not only as a total jerk.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____
    written by Jimmers
    oh, lol. I didn't know if I said something offensive or what the hell happened.

    cheers
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
    written by Amber

    i think i'm clicking send for half messages in a hurry or smth.

    u did know u said smth. offensive (as a delta nf), but that was obviously a matter of deep feeling that u are free to indulge in. the point of my message was that you should probably stop ..especially since i don't recall having given u any concrete reasons to hate me or deeply dislike me and inform me of that in a compulsive way. i have already cut u from my "friends" list to let u know i'm fine with ur decision.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____
    written by Jimmers

    Amber, I really don't know what you are talking about here. I looked back at what I posted and I didn't see anything that was referring to you. Perhaps you misinterpreted? I don't know because you haven't told me what has offended you. I posted some songs and discussed Te vulnerable, but beyond that, I'm at a total loss here.

    While I don't think we were ever really friends to begin with, I don't hate or deeply dislike you. I do get bothered by the fact that you don't seem to listen when I give plausible reasons for being other types, but that just seems to only give you more justification for your type of me. I try and keep an open mind, listen to what you have to say, but you don't seem to be interested in having a rational discussion with me at all, especially since I have already asked to discuss it with you in private so that maybe we could come to some understanding.

    I'm not into social drama, so it is unlikely that I would post some passive aggressive statement in an attempt to offend you.

    Your email has unfortunately been helpful to me. Unfortunate in that you were offended, but helpful in that it has helped me come to understand that I am more likely to be merry vs serious.

    You don't have to respond you if don't like, but I would appreciate it if you would.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
    written by Amber

    you vibe mbti INFP. I don't know about socionics ... you don't have the ij strictness and you don't seem to pass much moral judgement to fit the fi parameters. otherwise i also noticed strong ni (as in development of ppl/situations over time, underlying meaning etc.). which in socio-vocabulary indicates the demonstrative function. u could be eii, iee ...mby ili and esi and that's about all. but i think socionics is flawed and cynical and it impoverishes ppl's experience. u seem to have a fascination with exploring types (and yourself) partly as an intellectual exercise.

    but for your record there is nothing that could make me ignore the gut feeling I had about you and change my mind about the real meaning of your words and actions. I'm not sure if it all started with your "dream" about me, but it may have ended there.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____
    written by Jimmers

    Amber,

    I like you. I think we have similar interests. Your avatars are really cool and interesting. You're very intelligent, have great taste in music and art.

    To the best of my recollection, and I honestly mean that, the dream I had of you was the first and last time I was referring to you. I don't like to get wrapped up in unnecessary conflict. I did write that "dream" out of frustration, but that was quite some time ago. In interpreting what I meant there: 1)I honestly didn't know whether to refer to you as male or female. I thought you were a female and then I read a post at some point that stated you were a male. Since then, I've gotten the hint that you are female. 2) I was frustrated by being pigeonholed into a type 3) I was trying make it funny by making it into a scary dream. I'm very sorry that I hurt your feelings in what I wrote.

    Probably the most angry thing I've said lately was wanting to punch Jung in this face. I hope you didn't think I was referring to you. I would never even imply such a thing. I am really just frustrated at typology.

    I can totally see that I vibe like an MBTI INFP, and the more time I spend learning typology, the more I see that as likely. The reason why I argue against it, is that I'm a very logical, analytical person as well as being ethical and artistic. My F and T are very, very close. I can't tell if I'm an ethically inclined logic type, or a logically inclined ethical type. No wonder I'm confused. Some days, it really messes with my mind. The last few days, I've been reading about base vs role and I think this is the most accurate information about me. I really see my internal conflict being Ti vs Fi, yet I have strengths in both areas.

    I don't want to post on this forum because this is personal and I'm a very private person, but I would like to share this with you here. I've always had an active, vivid imagination as a boy. I lived in my own world to say the least. I was put in art enrichment classes when I was seven because I showed a talent in art. By the time I was in fourth grade I developed a keen interest in science and by junior high I was taking advanced math, science, and art classes. I also loved putting together models, puzzles, taking things apart and putting them back together. As an adult, I've done mechanical work on my cars, remodeled parts of my house.

    In college, I was a biology major, almost failed out, switched to art, then switched back to biology and graduated with a B.S. in Biology. It was in my junior year that I became really interested in philosophy after I took mandatory humanities courses. It was like a whole new world opened up to me.

    So there has always been this back and forth between logic and ethics. I'm currently a medical technologist and specialize in chemistry. I'm raising a family and ethical concerns are at the forefront of my life as well, at home and work. I may not vibe like an Ij, but I don't necessarily think I vibe Ip either. Ij with Ne subtype seems reasonable though.

    When I was into MBTI, I typed as INTJ and INTP, but found the types to be too argumentative online and finally settled on INFJ, after reading that many INFJs think they are INTJs and INTPs. I never really thought about INFP because they just came across as emotionally immature, especially the ones online, but that could've been age difference. Personally though, I've always felt more grown up and mature for my age in that I always thought I've had a pretty good understanding of people. I remember when I was 19 and was at a funeral, and a relative was concerned about a four year old standing around staring at the dead person and she said that it seemed a little strange. I said, "I don't think it's strange, he's just curious and try to understand what's going on." she then replied, "wow, I never thought it about it like that before. You know, you're really interesting to talk to."

    I don't really like to talk about my feelings, unlike what I see so many Fi doms doing online, although I certainly have a lot of emotion. Maybe it's because I've gotten well past that adolescent angst. I never talked about my feelings then either, never wanting to burden anyone with them. I didn't have a computer at all until I was in my early twenties and I used to bottle everything inside. I never even liked talking about myself. Now it seems that's all I do. Ever since I've stumbled upon typology. Sometimes, it feels like it's just been a fucking curse.

    So yeah, maybe I am MBTI INFP with a strong Ti role. That would make sense. Having demonstrative Ni does make sense as well, which may be why I kept think I was Ni base. Maybe though, that socionics and mbti is just complete bullshit and we're putting ourselves into boxes we don't need to.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______
    written by Amber:
    for your record, i am mbti infj and we're not one and the same type. not that i give too much credit to what personality profiles say ...but technically we use different IEs to process things. You are attempting to change my perspective/interpretation of what happened (Ne), while i tell you that i already know too much about your motivations and intentions.

    but you seem to want classic argumentation, so here it is: there were a bunch of ppl in your typing thread who were responding to your *own* demands of being typed (see pigeonholing) and all were suggesting kind of similar things. Out of everyone there your mind got stuck on me for some reason. Now you use your feelings of "frustration" to justify the fact that you publicly depicted me in creepily negative and insulting imagery. Check your subconscious a bit please before trying to change my mind.

    i don't totally dislike chatting with you, but it seems you underestimate me.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
    written by Jimmers:
    Check my subconscious? What a bunch of psychobabbling bullshit. The difference between you and I are likely due to your preference for making things personal, where I am trying to do the opposite. I am trying to be reasonable. I expect people to listen to reason. This is classic LII. I am also slightly more limbic than calm, according to SLOAN.

    My apologies, my email forwarded before I was done.

    I often condemn typology because it is unscientific and I am very skeptical of VI. I see it all of the time, where people get typed from very little information. While it may be a useful tool, it should only be used in context with the big personality picture.

    You often seem very personal and unreasonable in that you don't go by anything other than vibes, which is something I never go by. I also don't think that socionics or MBTI is true to begin with. They have severe theoretical limitations in what it can describe about people. To begin with, can everyone really be placed into 16 personality types? What about the fact that most people type somewhere in the middle of dichotomies? This is extremely important. That means that most of the people that are typed quickly, based on an easily recognizable preference for own trait over another, is much less common than one that sits somewhere in the middle. This implies that most people cannot be placed into 16 types. There is nothing in the scientific community that suggests that there is such a thing as a base function.

    Some of it can be applied to me. I mean, after all I do have preferences, but I don't accept that typing someone is easy, and most certainly cannot be done of a photograph or ten minute video. Jung himself stated that typing oneself is likely to take years. It really takes knowing your own thought processes, how they work in different situations. This is no easy task. So when I see people, like you, claiming to know the inner motivations of someone else, all I see is the bastardization of psychology. This is when I call bullshit.

    I am on this site to see if any of the claims socionics makes is true, and if they are, what are its limitations, while learning a bit about myself and maybe make a few friends. I am not at all interesting in finding some amorphic inner self.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____
    written by Amber:
    Jimmers,


    1.how old are you and how many kids did you say you have? what was your training btw? how come my taste in art appears more sophisticated and refined than yours, although I'm only into literature professionally? why have we NEVER actually talked about art? i've never seen you posting about art... you started talking about "the sublime", posted some stuff that had nothing to do with this aesthetic category (in Kant's terms or otherwise) and soon it all degenerated for some reasons. how strange.

    2. when was the last time you had oral sex with your wife? now really.

    3. you are FiNe and unless you stop lying you won't have a decent "reasonable" conversation with me. I'm nauseated by whatever is far from the truth. you are trying to use "Amber" as some narcissistic support to feel a bit more "T" or "Se" or whatever .... that's disgusting. write back when you're free from any competitive mindset and you can accept who you are. you are trying to use multiple typology to compensate for your weak logic. all your message was about how your Logic is actually super-strong. I would have liked to chat about your job or art instead.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______
    written by Jimmers
    I'm trying to tell you. I use Fi in a neurotic fashion. This is something that is immediately relevant to our discussion. The more someone says that I am Fi dominant, the more I resist being recognized for Fi being a strength, which is classic Role. It is something I don't want to be recognized for. My ego likes solving problems and being recognized for my ability to do so. The excess personal and emotional demands make me more neurotic. As long as they aren't excessive, I'm alright.

    My "weak" logic? I don't even know what that means. It sounds denigrating though. I argue with doctors and nurses all of the time if there is something I don't want to do, but mostly if what I don't want to do doesn't make sense. I use subjective logic.

    This is why typology is largely bullshit. Ti is subjective logic, right? Like the Fi user, it is often not visible because it is an introverted function. I have very little patience writing out all the little inconsistencies and contradictions I notice with socionics, or having to explain why it is unscientific, especially since criticizing socionics on this site is something that is futile.

    Talk about hidden agendas. Why are you so hung up on me personally? Why are you so committed with me being FiNe? It sounds like you're more concerned with being right. I rarely see you retract anything you state. Will you not stop until I lay down like a dog and submit to your typings?

    In response to your other questions:

    1) I am 34, have two girls, 8 and 4 years old. What do you want to know about my training? My idea of sublime is more along the lines of Edmund Burke, who stated “Whatever is fitted in any sort to excite the ideas of pain, and danger, that is to say, whatever is in any sort terrible, or is conversant about terrible objects, or operates in a manner analogous to terror, is a source of the sublime; that is, it is productive of the strongest emotion which the mind is capable of feeling .... When danger or pain press too nearly, they are incapable of giving any delight, and [yet] with certain modifications, they may be, and they are delightful, as we every day experience.”
    Edmund Burke, A Philosophical Enquiry into the Origin of our Ideas of the Sublime and Beautiful
    I didn't stop posting for any particular reason other than it has escaped my attention. I don't post my art because the only thing I draw anymore are portraits, which are too personal. I tend to not discuss art because I am more scientific and often don't understand the point of abstract art. I like what I find to be aesthetically pleasing art and I'm into classical realism, Renaissance and Classic Greek art. This is where I can say I'm influenced by Plato's forms, which he himself became skeptical of later in life. I love art that is transcendental and soulful in nature. When I draw people, I try to draw their soul, even though I'm not sure if souls even exist.

    2) I went down on her 2-3 months ago and would do so everyday if I had the chance. We are tired parents.

    3)That's odd, because I often think that most people on this site aren't interested in truth.

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
    written by Amber

    I guess I exaggerated in my "Negativism" when replying to your long message.

    The point was that I don't see how you could be LII or have a strong Ti role. You would have to be far more boring and sterile. I've never heard any LII talk about colorful personalized experiences like you do.

    I was actually curious about the reasons why you chose Science instead of Art on the long run and what you like about analyzing bodily tissues or fluids as a medical technologist, but I guess I had to get some things out of my system first. It doesn't change what happened on the forum, of course, but that is my idea of authentic communication.

    You also assess people via vibes and you wouldn't have written to me if you didn't like the vibe. Can you talk about what is really important to you instead of using typology as a form of intellectual masturbation. I'm not very interested in socionics dichotomies and I don't read ppl using typology in real life.


    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
    written by Jimmers

    Good, then why are you reading me though the lens of socionics? I've worked on myself long before I stumbled onto MBTI. The strength of socionics is also its weakness. The fact that people can use all IEs makes for a very muddled theory. How can you tell someone else is using a function and has a preference for that function? As far as I can tell so far, it is entirely subjective. There really isn't a standard, and if anything there exists double standards with regards with some types over other types. The only person who knows their preference is the person being typed, so don't tell me what my preferences are. You have no clue.


    For instance, in order to be accepted as an LII, you have to be a stereotypical LII. First, you are expected to display your logic, which is subjective logic to begin with. It's not there is ever really one right way to state something. That is why debates are often endless. The ones with the best displays can self type as Ti dom, anyone that they outwit is not. What is even remotely logical about that? Being more intelligent, having better reasoning skills than someone else on the forum does not mean that those with the lesser skills are not the same type. Many LII perpetuate their own stereotype, to such an extent that any one who dare think they are LII and demonstrates anything but strict logic cannot be LII. Once you show any emotion, forget about it. Even though LIIs will tell you themselves that emotions and ethic don't necessarily go hand-in-hand. Logic is learned through education, which is why it is taught in school. Those who have studied, actually studied formal logic, will be the most logical. Just because I haven't studied it doesn't mean I'm not interested in learning how to better at it, or that I don't use subjective logic as a base.

    Now what does it take to be labelled EII? Well, not very much. Do you like people? Do you feel emotion? Do you like art? Are you nice to people? Do you doubt your type? Do you change your type? The range is so wide that anyone that doesn't fit into any of the other categories can easily be worded to fit into FiNe. This is a double standard. One the one hand, with LIIs you have one requirement: Display pretentious formal logic abilities. On the other hand is EIIs, which doesn't require much of anything to be typed as one, since everyone knows that EII can never figure out their type anyways.

    My identity revolves around being a freethinker. I don't view myself as any particular type. Because I'm a freethinker, I'm not going to dismiss socionics in its entirety because there is some truth to it. But, I'm not going to accept it as truth either. In actuality, I'm not arguing for being LII as much as I am for arguing against EII because I am interested in Truth, whatever that may be.

    But socionics aside, art is more a tie to my past than something that presently captures my interest. I'm disappointed in myself for not sticking with it like I thought I would, but I've become way more interested in abstract theories. I would like to get back into it some day, but only time will tell.

    I went into medical technology so I could have income to pay off my student loans. I didn't really know that I would have to deal with a chaotic schedule for so long and that I would be dealing with difficult people directly when I signed up. I really just wanted to look at cells under a microscope and live a simple life, giving myself lots of free time to pursue my various interests. At first I wanted to be a doctor, but it wasn't something that I was driven to be. My grades sucked too. I loved taking college classes for the sake of learning and not for my GPA. I've always just wanted to learn and know things. Because my grades were low, the options for grad school were limited, and I would've preferred going to research, but the pay was really low, which wouldn't have helped my loan payments any. I was quite interested in stem cell research, but I was also very interested in immunological research.

    In my current job, I am supervisor of the chemistry department, so I oversee calibrations, quality control, inventory, maintenance, correlations, and training. I am also a generalist, so I work in hematology, blood bank, and urinalysis. One of my stressors at work is having to draw blood, which I would rather not do. I would much rather focus on impersonal side of the job. But, sometimes I do like to volunteer to draw blood. I just don't like having to be forced to do it. One of my goals is to get out my current lab and specialize in either cytogenetics or flow cytometry. That way I can focus on mastering a specialty that I find interesting and not have direct patient contact or work odd hours that place great stress on my family and myself. That is a few years down the road though.

    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

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