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Thread: Super-Ego: most well rounded couple?

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    Hmm I think they have a lot of potential. Maybe a good super-ego would be less exciting than a good dual, but I think the love could have a similar feeling of purity and affection. I think they both have something the other doesn’t. I imagine it would be easy to fall for a super-ego that wasn’t truly right for you..they might be more exciting as a first love than a husband/wife. I think if a super-ego pair are a truly good fit, they might not argue too much or have too many problems.

    For some reason I think a dual might inspire me to be more ambitious than a super-ego..

    Thinking out loud..If I had a job the perfect job already, maybe a dual wouldn’t have the edge over a super-ego so much.

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    Kind of fast effective actions sort of thing.

    You'll get annoyed of each other if you share stuff.
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    These relationships seem to be underrated by Socionics but are one of the easier ones to start. They work well together; they can relate well to aspects of each other's behaviour; and they complement one another. For these relationships to succeed, Ejs would probably have to share the spotlight more than usual; Ips would need to be more open to one another and less defensive than they normally are; Eps would have set aside significant time for joint endeavours and face-to-face interaction; and Ijs would need to minimize their disconnection times and make more effort to actually communicate when they're together. However, duals aren't slam-dunk relationships either.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I'm bettin' OP was sweet on their Super-ego relation when he/she posted the question

    If you've correctly typed your Super-ego & hook up, you'll be inflicting mental self abuse on yourself.

    If you know yourself cognitively, you'll choose a person with similar values, not hindering values

    I'd say do it, man. If you dig being neurotic, mentally miserable & emotionally maladjusted then Super-ego is def for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
    These relationships seem to be underrated by Socionics but are one of the easier ones to start. They work well together; they can relate well to aspects of each other's behaviour; and they complement one another. For these relationships to succeed, Ejs would probably have to share the spotlight more than usual; Ips would need to be more open to one another and less defensive than they normally are; Eps would have set aside significant time for joint endeavours and face-to-face interaction; and Ijs would need to minimize their disconnection times and make more effort to actually communicate when they're together. However, duals aren't slam-dunk relationships either.

    a.k.a. I/O
    It seems to me that you choose to ignore the misunderstandings between Fe/Ti and Fi/Te as well as the value clashes of Se/Ni and Ne/Si. I agree about super-ego being easy to start, behavior being similar and strengths complementary. However, this is in my experience overshadowed by the conflicts and misunderstandings.

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    Having spent too much trying to fit into opposing quadra, no way.
    Maybe if the two have reached nirvana, but that kind of kills the ego so it doesn't really count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    It seems to me that you choose to ignore the misunderstandings between Fe/Ti and Fi/Te as well as the value clashes of Se/Ni and Ne/Si......
    You may have noticed that I ignore a lot of things. Misunderstandings will exist even amongst duals because of processing differences but I don't see them causing as many rifts as would divergent priorities - the I/O (p/j) divide; and, I've seen the greatest divide between mirrors; one would think that they'd have more understanding of each other but the divide seems exacerbated by familiarity. There's an old adage that may apply: "familiarity breeds contempt".

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    You may have noticed that I ignore a lot of things. Misunderstandings will exist even amongst duals because of processing differences but I don't see them causing as many rifts as would divergent priorities - the I/O (p/j) divide; and, I've seen the greatest divide between mirrors; one would think that they'd have more understanding of each other but the divide seems exacerbated by familiarity. There's an old adage that may apply: "familiarity breeds contempt".

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yeah, I don't disagree that the p/j divide is great. However, I don't believe it's accurate to ignore the differences in which brand of ethics or sensing one values. Duals may very well have misunderstandings but they resolve easily because the efforts of each partner is automatically well received by the other. This isn't the case in super-ego where further elaborating will only lead into deeper conflict. The super-ego relation works best as long as psychological distance is kept long. There is admiration from a distance, but closeness creates a repulsive force which isn't the case with duals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, I don't disagree that the p/j divide is great. However, I don't believe it's accurate to ignore the differences in which brand of ethics or sensing one values. Duals may very well have misunderstandings but they resolve easily because the efforts of each partner is automatically well received by the other. This isn't the case in super-ego where further elaborating will only lead into deeper conflict. The super-ego relation works best as long as psychological distance is kept long. There is admiration from a distance, but closeness creates a repulsive force which isn't the case with duals.
    Which relation other duality do you favor? Rationals aren't for me. I dig mirage, but probably not co-habitate cause Se objectivity clashes with Si comfort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Which relation other duality do you favor? Rationals aren't for me. I dig mirage, but probably not co-habitate cause Se objectivity clashes with Si comfort.
    Mirage was good but ultimately dissatisfying and I ended it. Semi-duality was satisfying but I ended it because I couldn't forget a dual and Te was just boring compared to playfulness of creative Fe. Activity was intense and interesting but not really long-term relationship material.
    Beneficiary (ESE) was also a bad idea which I wouldn't repeat. I prefer Ni leads above everything else, I guess. I find gamma SF kinda sexy but probably too volatile and aggressive for anything else than one night fun. Same with delta NF but maybe 2 hours of fun instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Yeah, I don't disagree that the p/j divide is great. However, I don't believe it's accurate to ignore the differences in which brand of ethics or sensing one values. Duals may very well have misunderstandings but they resolve easily because the efforts of each partner is automatically well received by the other. This isn't the case in super-ego where further elaborating will only lead into deeper conflict. The super-ego relation works best as long as psychological distance is kept long. There is admiration from a distance, but closeness creates a repulsive force which isn't the case with duals.
    People who firmly believe in right-to-life will never resolve the misunderstandings that they have with people who believe in right-to-choose, even when they're duals. Much of a brand of values is learned and not innate to information processing. Conflict deepens when one or both parties close down, stop communicating and or insist that they're right. I had implied in my previous statement that closeness can create repulsive forces but I wouldn't limit that observation to semi-duals.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Mirage was good but ultimately dissatisfying and I ended it. Semi-duality was satisfying but I ended it because I couldn't forget a dual and Te was just boring compared to playfulness of creative Fe. Activity was intense and interesting but not really long-term relationship material.
    Beneficiary (ESE) was also a bad idea which I wouldn't repeat. I prefer Ni leads above everything else, I guess. I find gamma SF kinda sexy but probably too volatile and aggressive for anything else than one night fun. Same with delta NF but maybe 2 hours of fun instead.
    Mirages are decent for my Fi polr. I work on my Ni DS to the point I'm don't fuck up & do unwise shit. I'm guessing Fi-demonstrative (with that cheery Fe creative) fascinates me cognitively

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    People who firmly believe in right-to-life will never resolve the misunderstandings that they have with people who believe in right-to-choose, even when they're duals. Much of a brand of values is learned and not innate to information processing. Conflict deepens when one or both parties close down, stop communicating and or insist that they're right. I had implied in my previous statement that closeness can create repulsive forces but I wouldn't limit that observation to semi-duals.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I was referring to the socionic term 'values' implying Se/Ni vs. Si/Ne and Ti/Fe vs. Te/Fi. The learned values are indeed a different story, but even if those are different, the different viewpoints are easier to reconcile if you value all the same information elements. The closing down and insisting on being right happens when you talk past each other due to processing and coloring information using the opposite set of lenses. Duals are opposites but share the same set of lenses, super-ego are identical in processing configuration but have exactly opposite lenses. I find this to be important in practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    ......... the different viewpoints are easier to reconcile if you value all the same information elements. The closing down and insisting on being right happens when you talk past each other due to processing and coloring information using the opposite set of lenses.......
    If what you say is the rule then I should be able to easily work and reconcile problems with ILEs but I haven't found that to be true - and there were many. I also find SEIs somewhat difficult and they find me difficult. Perhaps you have had more success with LSIs; have they found you easy to work with?

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
    If what you say is the rule then I should be able to easily work and reconcile problems with ILEs but I haven't found that to be true - and there were many. I also find SEIs somewhat difficult and they find me difficult. Perhaps you have had more success with LSIs; have they found you easy to work with?

    a.k.a. I/O
    Well, no, not when it comes to work. I do have LSI friends and we get well along (though ILI are easily even better). But in my opinion there’s an important distinction between work relationships and friendships or especially romantic relationships. LSI are process rationals and that clashes with result irrational. Work relations with LIE are better, but having fun is more natural in-quadra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Which relation other duality do you favor? Rationals aren't for me. I dig mirage, but probably not co-habitate cause Se objectivity clashes with Si comfort.
    I’m curious; what do you find so incompatible about rational types?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I’m curious; what do you find so incompatible about rational types?
    Rationals prefer to be decisive, to speak with certainty about what "should" be or happen. Their lead function operates in such a way that a sense of decisive rigidity is optimal for them. This isn't to say rationals are wrong, just that isn't compatible with me at a close psychological distance

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    Superego has been the type to push me closest to the point of violence as an Se PoLR - so in light of what is beneficial to society, I'm going to have to go with a no on that one mate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    ......there’s an important distinction between work relationships and friendships or especially romantic relationships........
    I agree that when a couple has no commitments or common projects, they can be best buds and or very intimate. However, for example, should the pair have a child together then the relationship turns into a working one. I'm more interested in that dynamic and what happens to the friendship and intimacy when types have to depend on and trust one another.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
    I agree that when a couple has no commitments or common projects, they can be best buds and or very intimate. However, for example, should the pair have a child together then the relationship turns into a working one. I'm more interested in that dynamic and what happens to the friendship and intimacy when types have to depend on and trust one another.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Maybe, but in my case I’m happy with the fact that most beta NF don’t even want children. It’s something that fits Si valuers better tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Maybe, but in my case I’m happy with the fact that most beta NF don’t even want children. It’s something that fits Si valuers better tbh.
    Disparaging of tradition, and Ni being able anticipate how it can be too much work, and how it can result if child is born
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    Soz I've only skimmed over the comments. To me it seems like temperament is key to understanding the types and their needs. Maybe there isn't even that much difference in the strengths of the different ITR after all. Non type-related stuff is much more important. But the ones with complimentary/same temperament seem to fit together better. It's like they are different versions of each other/ their brains more in sync with each other. However, I think non-type related aspects of personality are important too and a good match might mimic the effect of compatible temperaments.

    Perhaps finding a good super-ego partner is hard in the same way finding a good dual is. I might have some stuff in common with SLIs (have met a few out clubbing) but I haven't met any at work really. Just because some people have some really bad experiences with super-ego partners doesn't mean they all have to be bad, it might just mean that it's not so obvious how to spot a good one, compared with a dual perhaps. Also, when I first got into socionics and was focusing too much on the quadras I remember thinking..SLI is the coolest Delta haha. Maybe your super-ego partner is the one from the opposite quadra whose values you share the most.

    Also, surely there has to be a pattern connecting all the types in terms of information processing compatibility? If duals are compatible with each other, why isn't there an order of best to worst compatibility? If not by temperament, what is an alternative way to measure it? The quadras? But then why does everyone complain about mirrors lol.

    From the bits I've read, socionics is really cool! But it's messy. Someone needs to tidy it up. That way the most useful ideas will emerge. I suppose if it is growing in popularity in the West that might be good because it could mean more researchers become interested in it. There are useful ideas on this forum of course
    Last edited by Bethany; 07-26-2021 at 07:40 PM.

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    The main SLI guy I know... my cousin's IEE husband: communication was awkward/cringe-y with him. We always hated talking one on one with each other and would look for another extrovert to save us lol. I mean yeah I'm kind of a shy loser so I have issues talking with people sometimes even we get along perfectly lol, but I remember him being especially awkward. SLI women also seem awkward with me, the few I've known. They were way too aloof and standoffish with my Fe. My creative function was their PoLR - so anything interesting I thought seemed to overwhelm them and vice-versa.

    They also would tend to get weirdly critical and suspicious of me. SLIs have had this attitude of disgust with me before like 'Ugh what is he doing here' I felt it was assholeish and annoying. I never treated them this way- I never had that level of disgust for them that they had for me but I can't say that I liked them either or anything lol. When my ESE mom supervised the hell out of them tbh I bitchily encouraged it lol.

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    Okay there is some faulty information out there. There is this intertype relationship chart that has ESFj & ISTp as semi-dual partners. Oh it's because it's shitty mbti nevermind.

    LoL it has INFp-ESTj as duals and INFp-ESTp as conflictors.

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    Hm I don't talk to too many SLIs. When I do I wouldn't say the main feeling off them I feel is disgust, I think I just feel a bit impatient with them. Maybe occasionally a bit uncomfortable but then I get that with SEIs sometimes too. But I had a really good SLI friend and school who I never felt like this with. We became friendly in class and had some friends in common. Stayed in touch after school and occasionally hung out just us. Sadly she was close with an IEE I fell out with so haven't spoken to her since then. I don't want to feel pressured to be friends with the IEE again, I think a lot of heart break could occur if I went back in that direction. I have also had a few platonic dates with SLI guys and had a good time and didn't find them boring/ weird. My Dad is SLI and although we don't speak much I don't feel stressed by my relationship with him. I've always had an underlying admiration for him even though he's very different to me and we hardly communicate. He just works a lot, does what my mum tells him and helps other people out too..and relaxes when he can. I don't see this as that different to myself. I certainly don't work as hard, but I want the same easy life with a simple routine and no drama lol. (of course, the drama can be hard to avoid lol)

    I think I would rather be with an SLI than a semi-dual..maybeee. I've been thinking of the types in contrary pairs recently..SEE and SEI and ILI and ILE..not enough trust for them?..SLI and SLE...you can build a lot of real trust I think. Of course, you can build trust with anyone but I think it might feel more real with SLI than SEE or ILE. I'm only imagining this though haha
    Last edited by Bethany; 08-01-2021 at 12:04 PM.

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    From what I’ve heard, the sex in this relation is trash as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    From what I’ve heard, the sex in this relation is trash as well.
    To the extent that attraction isn’t physical, I’m not attracted to ESIs. I’ve said somewhere else that they seem to register as something like animals or a mountain to me — can be interesting to look at or spend time with, or even care for, but as you’d care for an animal. In the way you could expect one’s cat or a not particularly energetic/enthusiastic dog to talk if they could it feels their conversation is — it can be good, and interesting in a way, but there’s always a barrier to complete understanding or relation.

    To take the animal analogy further, I think what I like in Fe people is also a certain sense of “animalism,” but more in the way of a normal/enthusiastic dog. Despite the differences, there’s more of a sense that they’ve thrown in their lot with you/are with you all the way, and that the differences between you aren’t important. “If you can’t fully relate, that’s OK! It doesn’t matter! We’re part of the same group/family so you can say and do whatever you like and I’ll stay with you” is the feeling.

    With Fi people I don’t get a sense that they’re “with” anyone besides themselves. As if they didn’t like something their friend or partner said or did they’d just leave immediately. So it’s difficult to be open with such people. This might be part of the reason it’s difficult for me to relate with them or feel attracted to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    To the extent that attraction isn’t physical, I’m not attracted to ESIs. I’ve said somewhere else that they seem to register as something like animals or a mountain to me — can be interesting to look at or spend time with, or even care for, but as you’d care for an animal. In the way you could expect one’s cat or a not particularly energetic/enthusiastic dog to talk if they could it feels their conversation is — it can be good, and interesting in a way, but there’s always a barrier to complete understanding or relation..
    I see what you mean. The most typical SEE makes me just.. think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    SLI women also seem awkward with me, the few I've known. They were way too aloof and standoffish with my Fe. My creative function was their PoLR - so anything interesting I thought seemed to overwhelm them and vice-versa.

    They also would tend to get weirdly critical and suspicious of me. SLIs have had this attitude of disgust with me before like 'Ugh what is he doing here' I felt it was assholeish and annoying. I never treated them this way- I never had that level of disgust for them that they had for me but I can't say that I liked them either or anything lol. When my ESE mom supervised the hell out of them tbh I bitchily encouraged it lol.
    SLI women are awkward with everyone i think. I had that SLI colleague at work that would look at me with this semi-disgusted semi-defensive wince when I'd express my emotions too vividly. I tried to find a picture; I call it the delta "cringe at Se/Fe":



    Crazy thing is, she would always invite me to her parties and to her house, and at her farewell party she was shaking when she talked to me and she wanted to hug me.... but I refused because of the covid restrictions... Mb she was into me... but honestly Fe-Polr have the most incoherent facial expressions... it's like what's outside is the opposite of what's inside or smth... I'm glad I don't value Fe so i don't get offended but it's still

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    I would never date a SLE woman though I'm not particularly a fan of being steamrolled & too much drama
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    SLI women are awkward with everyone i think. I had that SLI colleague at work that would look at me with this semi-disgusted semi-defensive wince when I'd express my emotions too vividly. I tried to find a picture; I call it the delta "cringe at Se/Fe":



    Crazy thing is, she would always invite me to her parties and to her house, and at her farewell party she was shaking when she talked to me and she wanted to hug me.... but I refused because of the covid restrictions... Mb she was into me... but honestly Fe-Polr have the most incoherent facial expressions... it's like what's outside is the opposite of what's inside or smth... I'm glad I don't value Fe so i don't get offended but it's still
    lol, yeah. You can't understand Fe PoLR by expression or body language, it makes no freaking sense. People rarely ask why I do things, or just if it means something, so they misunderstand and so do I. Everyone goes
    You can try asking if you want to know, might turn out awkward, lol. Might not even be aware of what they look like nor why, could help bring them awareness tho. Or don't bother.

  32. #72
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    I seem to irritate INTjs when I don't get whatever concept or idea they expound. Whenever I state the whatever they say back to them, (to make sure I understand), they'll be like "no, that's wrong" or just don't want to talk about it any further.

    If we have a common interest (say video games), then sure, conversation is easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    To the extent that attraction isn’t physical, I’m not attracted to ESIs. I’ve said somewhere else that they seem to register as something like animals or a mountain to me — can be interesting to look at or spend time with, or even care for, but as you’d care for an animal. In the way you could expect one’s cat or a not particularly energetic/enthusiastic dog to talk if they could it feels their conversation is — it can be good, and interesting in a way, but there’s always a barrier to complete understanding or relation.

    To take the animal analogy further, I think what I like in Fe people is also a certain sense of “animalism,” but more in the way of a normal/enthusiastic dog. Despite the differences, there’s more of a sense that they’ve thrown in their lot with you/are with you all the way, and that the differences between you aren’t important. “If you can’t fully relate, that’s OK! It doesn’t matter! We’re part of the same group/family so you can say and do whatever you like and I’ll stay with you” is the feeling.

    With Fi people I don’t get a sense that they’re “with” anyone besides themselves. As if they didn’t like something their friend or partner said or did they’d just leave immediately. So it’s difficult to be open with such people. This might be part of the reason it’s difficult for me to relate with them or feel attracted to them.
    I think I get what you’re saying although of course for me my semi-dual is SEE so we don’t share fe valuing. Guessing you were referring to your semi-dual EIE.. But SEE are also open-minded and not as ‘set’ in their views as SLI. So in that way I may feel a bit more free or safe with them. But I think I could have a more close relationship with SLI. (Let’s say we’re both mentally healthy). I think once you get to know each other you could accept and be comfortable with your different attitudes and outlooks. The fact you will be able to help each other with core weaknesses would bring you closer together. Also, the shared IPness could feel quite twin-like, like they are a different version of you, which could be appealing. There is a bit in Gulenko’s book where he comments on duality saying something like duals may not stick together because people may feel the need for a more deep sense of social acknowledgement, I’ll try to get the proper quote later. So yes, maybe semi-duals/illusionary do bring something that super-ego doesn’t..and maybe super-ego relations have this kind of instinctive close feeling but might not be the most inspiring person to make you feel loved for who you are..soz if this doesn’t make sense..

    Edit: I realised you meant you like fe leads/people with fe. I think I usually find si people a bit ‘hotter’ than se people. I think it’s taken me til now to even really think of SEE as hot..they’d be the type that grew on me and became really cool seeming and hot as I got to know them. lol at your pet comparisons
    Last edited by Bethany; 08-02-2021 at 09:09 PM.

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    Lol I had a dream last night that I was on a date with an SLI I once knew..and we had a really nice time! Funny..

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    This is one of the things Gulenko says about duality: ‘Nevertheless, the importance of dual relationships should not be overestimated. This is the norm of this relationship for routine, everyday life. Having acquired duality, one of the partners may want more, namely the social importance of his personality and some struggle or deviation from the norm.’ (In the previous paragraph he talks about how normal, secure, calm duality is.

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    Is this some sort of conspiracy, pairing people up with their superego rather than their activity or dual? I've seen this relation in fiction, and sometimes it isn't that bad (recently; The show 'Devs', Jin Ha and Mizuno ).

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    Ok so I was reading another thread about si and it got me thinking. I think what I might prefer about other types compared to SLI and SEI is that their use of si is unconscious. Don’t know what I mean by this yet, but it might be something which makes their si seem more meaningful and deep to me. (On some level..)

    However, I still feel that if I was able to choose a life partner, I would go for an IP or EP. I think life just feels a bit more transcendent when I am around these types (I’m not sure about IEE honestly for a LIFE partner, maybe as close friend is better). As well as ‘transcendent’ I think these ITR have the potential to feel comfortable, natural and easy. Feeling comfortable in myself sounds like something really special to me, allowing me to really explore my own instincts and what it means to be me and how I fit with the world I am part of.
    Last edited by Bethany; 08-05-2021 at 12:57 PM.

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    I have to say that this would not work for me. I don't want to say that it is impossible for it to work with anyone but I don't see the value in this.

    I feel like an LSE would be fine I could see myself with one. But I don't think they would appreciate me very much.

    I talk about Ni things too much and the LSE wouldn't really care about any of this.

    Plus I would be giving them Fe while they want Fi. Which I don't really care too much about.

    I feel like I could be friends with an LSE ok, but being in a romantic relationship would be a little difficult.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
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    Years back I tried to start up something with an LSI-Se guy I liked and he misinterpreted every. single. freaking. action I took toward him. Complete disaster and immensely psychologically frustrating.

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