Don't worry Rocky, she just wants to show ISTp-ENTj supervision. :wink:Originally Posted by Rocky
Don't worry Rocky, she just wants to show ISTp-ENTj supervision. :wink:
EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
E3 (probably 3w4)
Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!
Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/
Shazam.Don't worry Rocky, she just wants to show ISTp-ENTj supervision. :wink:
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Yes, that's what she believes...Don't worry Rocky, she just wants to show ISTp-ENTj supervision. :wink:
Is that a bad thing? I don't mind criticism. I think we get along just fine. (:
This is how I usually did highschool. Unfortunately, this does not work in college.I also didn't believe in homework or studying but always did well on tests. I did all of my work during class when the teacher was "teaching" or before class when I felt like it. Up until I was in high school my mother would tell me to sit down and do my homework before i could have any fun. I figured later on to just not bring any homework home and that led to more fun time and time I could play basketball, soccer, or video games... Even when I went to tech school I just got to school a bit early and did all the work i was supposed to do for homework. Homework at home = shit. :wink:
college is different because you CHOOSE to go there
it's like working a job. your only bosses are the owners. everyone else is an employee, just like you are. if their job is to manage, and yours is not, then respect the owners enough to allow their employees, the managers, to effictively do their jobs. if accepting the position you were hired into, you CHOSE to do this. if you feel your co-workers, the managers, are not doing their jobs appropraitely, then do what you believe is right out of loyalty to the owners.
anyways...
Uhm... I said you cant do all your homework in class in college.
College as a choice is also debatable. It is a choice but it is most often a choice due to constricted options. What is required of one in college is also of constricted choice. There is some room to choose classes. And then there is the juggernaut of total liberal bullshit that EVERYONE (in America) has to do whether they like it or not. I love contrasting requirements between now and 30+ years ago.
sorry...
I was trying to say that it's not morally wrong for them to give you work to do outside of class in college
Oh. I think you jumped the gun. I was contrasting reality between the differences.
yeah... I know... I added my spiteful take on the matter of highschool as it compares to college
I don't think we should be legally forced to attend highschool
Eh, I kinda glad we are. I just wish the exterior options were more universally viable. When I have a kid, it will most likely be in either a private, non-religious school or a K-12 program with extra curricular things for social support.
I just see all of the bullshit that the teacher goes through in class as unnecessary.... I guess that's what it comes down to (at least as far as the original topic is concerned)
One of the things I have noted is that many educators seem to be oblivious to learning styles. Either that or they simply do not care...
it's more than they're paid to deal with
I usually find it interesting. More info = better.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Lazyyyyyy.
That's exactly why you'reI usually find it interesting. More info = better.and Joy is not...
I like Rocky's reasoning, I'd have to agree with him. The posts that Joy had done seem Ne or irrational based.That's exactly why you'reI usually find it interesting. More info = better.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
I've known at least two ENFps that liked classes in order to learn. This said, I agree with your assesment.I like Rocky's reasoning, I'd have to agree with him. The posts that Joy had done seem Ne or irrational based.That's exactly why you'reI usually find it interesting. More info = better.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yeah, I do like classes for the same reason because I love learning interesting material. In fact one of my courses has sparked an interest in astronomy, which I plan to learn further. However, I tend to be dissatisfied with the process and the manner in which teacher's relay the information. Though, being a teacher myself, I have learned why this route is taken by many. There are a few easy steps that can be done in order to make learning easier, but unfortunately learning has been transformed into a strenous process rather than the enjoyable experience it should be.I've known at least two ENFps that liked classes in order to learn. This said, I agree with your assesment.I like Rocky's reasoning, I'd have to agree with him. The posts that Joy had done seem Ne or irrational based.That's exactly why you'reI usually find it interesting. More info = better.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
I agree. I am lucky that here in Italy the majority of high school teachers is...NT! Therefore, I as an NT am usually favoured in the learning process as opposed to what happens in the U.S.. The same applies to unversity courses: I have been told numerous times that Italy is much more oriented towards a theorethical understanding, again as opposed to the mostly practical apporach of U.S. universities.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yeah, that's true and Canadian universities tend to have a very practical approach as well. It basically revolves around retaining and relaying facts and denounces speculations. I am personally frustrated of the belief that by writing notes makes you retain the information better, which is a load of bollocks. Reading it thoroughly achieves the same results in far less time. I believe that in high school where the problem is greater, it would be best to alleviate note taking completely, which is the biggest lie and deterrent to learning. It should be replaced with photo-copied material that is read frequently and teachers should clarify information rather distort it. However, I'm aware that I'm being highly idealistic even though these changes can be implemented rather easily.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
I would tend to say that it is a matter of personal attitude. I find easiest to learn by auditory means: I have an incredibly good memory for everything that I have heard; however, it is not as good when it comes to reading, mainly because I am used to read very, very fast. The understanding gets better when I have to verbalize what I have read. There's probably a connection to my strong preference for extraversion.
Anyway, from what I have gathered by looking at U.S. unversity web-sites and lecture notes, Italian undergrad's theorethical level is appriximately equal to U.S. 1st year grad-school. Every exam, here, contains at least one section which is not based on book/notes, but that must be solved only by deductive/intuitive thinking.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
When I'm solving a problem, I visualize the elements of the problem. I simplify as much as I can to avoid being deceived by the details. And then I start making up examples, "if this happens, then ..." "but if this was like this then that would happen". It's fun. I like being faced with problems I can visualize. I dislike problems that need words to solve them. I was very good at math, but I liked graphs more than tables.
EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
E3 (probably 3w4)
Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/
Interesting that you bring that up, when I had a more of an young adolescent attitude, I would tend to blame my problems on the system or the manner in which the information was taught. I have learned that the majority of it depends on your motivation and attitude towards the subject itself and the teacher. I recognized that my grades in high school were higher in the classes that I liked the teacher. This made me realize that I could achieve high grades in any course if I have that same enthusiasm with the less satisfying teachers and topics.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
OK, I've posted a reply in your other topic as it seemed more relevant http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...=4276&start=15I threw out an idea along these lines awhile ago; http://oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=4...er=asc&start=0Jung's concept of thinking is probably important as well (be it Ti or Te) as, there seems to be a overlap between feeling/thinking and temporal lobe/parietal activity:Yeah, that's what I was saying.
Temporal lobes are involved in language and emotional responses and are more developed in women than men.
Parietal lobes (as mentioned) are important for spatial vision and are more developed in men than women and are largely subconscious.
Supposedly, there is around a 3:1 preference of feeling over thinking in women, whereas in men this ratio is around 1:1.
To me at least this seems to be an interesting co-incidence......
For this kind of thinking facts are of secondary importance; what, apparently, is of absolutely paramount importance is the development and presentation of the subjective idea, that primordial symbolical image standing more or less darkly before the inner vision.
How is it irrational to dislike people wasting my time?I like Rocky's reasoning, I'd have to agree with him. The posts that Joy had done seem Ne or irrational based.That's exactly why you'reI usually find it interesting. More info = better.
Learning is never a waste of time!How is it irrational to dislike people wasting my time?I like Rocky's reasoning, I'd have to agree with him. The posts that Joy had done seem Ne or irrational based.That's exactly why you'reI usually find it interesting. More info = better.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I like new knowledge, but I really dislike memorizing dry data. Some classes have been pointless, even if the subject itself was interesting. I suspect most NTs would agree with me on this, so I don't agree with you 100%.This is one of many reasons why I say she isn't ENTj, or even ENTp for that matter. Any NT would thrive on the procurement of knowledge by any means necessary.Learning is never a waste of time!How is it irrational to dislike people wasting my time?I like Rocky's reasoning, I'd have to agree with him. The posts that Joy had done seem Ne or irrational based.That's exactly why you'reI usually find it interesting. More info = better.
EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
E3 (probably 3w4)
Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/
... you know, we haven't heard from any ExTPs yet... what's with you guys?
Perhaps you liked the teachers because their teaching styles matched your learning style. This spring I had an ESTp (or possibly ISTj) professor in a course I was very interested in, but I couldn't get started with the tasks because in an annoying way I didn't know what to do. The instructions were thourough, but I later realized that they didn't mention the purpose of the exercises so it meant nothing to me. That being said I agree that in higher education the responsability is mainly on the students.Interesting that you bring that up, when I had a more of an young adolescent attitude, I would tend to blame my problems on the system or the manner in which the information was taught. I have learned that the majority of it depends on your motivation and attitude towards the subject itself and the teacher. I recognized that my grades in high school were higher in the classes that I liked the teacher. This made me realize that I could achieve high grades in any course if I have that same enthusiasm with the less satisfying teachers and topics.
About note taking, that's just a distraction. When I take notes I get lost in details aout the disposition and silly details like how hard I press the pen on certain words. Erase, rewrite, repeat, like if I had OCD.
The same goes for the dreadful mind maps.Again the disposition takes over in my mind. And I need to limit my associations, not poke around and mess with them.
I guess the problem begins when teachers make the method of learning part of the examination, since nothing will suit everyone.
INFj
exactly. when the subject was interesting and there was class discussion, I enjoyed it. When the subject was interesting and the teacher was giving notes, I generally enjoyed my own studies of the material presented.I like new knowledge, but I really dislike memorizing dry data. Some classes have been pointless, even if the subject itself was interesting. I suspect most NTs would agree with me on this, so I don't agree with you 100%.This is one of many reasons why I say she isn't ENTj, or even ENTp for that matter. Any NT would thrive on the procurement of knowledge by any means necessary.Learning is never a waste of time!How is it irrational to dislike people wasting my time?I like Rocky's reasoning, I'd have to agree with him. The posts that Joy had done seem Ne or irrational based.That's exactly why you'reI usually find it interesting. More info = better.
I've stated in the past that the only thing I enjoyed about highschool was when we learned about something interesting.
For the most part though, I resent being MADE to go. That's what my bitching is all about.
Bullshit.
grrr. I like learning. I dislike having my education dictated.
Joy, I think most people are just calling you bluff, basically (with the "not wanting to go to school because people made you", and the "I like learning but I don't like education", stuff).
JFC, Joy. Quit posting. Im on vacation and havent even made a dent relative to your post count ~!@!#@~@~!!!
lol jadae
and I do like education, as long as it's self-directed
What does this mean? The teacher talks. You can catch what the teacher says, and from this point of weiv education is always self-directed; there is another possible meaning for your sentence, which is: the only education I like is from the self, to the self. It is incorrect if you meant "from the teacher's self to "my"self, since it would still be outer-directed, not self-directed.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I just mean that I get to decide what I will study and when. I'm a correspondence kind of girl. College was okay, when I liked the classes I took. I still didn't like having to show up at a certain time and do a certain thing by a certain time. Plus it's hard to pay attention in class. I prefer "okay, I feel up to concentrating right now" and doing a week's worth of learning in an afternoon.
I liked most of the classes for one reason or another. The problem was that some of the teachers were targeting the information to verbal thinkers, or teachers put too much stress on non-educational details.
I didn't have considerable problems with, "why do they teach me such things?!". I had more problems with fitting some of the things in my world view. I had weird questions like, "have atoms and molecules even been proven? Or are we just studying some theory that was made up by some guy with an over-active imagination?"The teachers just said that there is proof, but I wasn't so sure that I believed them. It took years before I actually believed atoms exist.
EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
E3 (probably 3w4)
Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/
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