Help me type myself, Please ;)

[Ben Teskey]

At the moment it seems as though that I don't fit into either of the categories most commonly represented by MBTI INFJs. I believe that I have a rough feel for what's morally right/wrong and what's fair, but I never really end up bringing those kinds of moral convictions far into consciousness. At the same time, however, my personal feelings are always more important to me than that of others. They tend be highly influenced by other people, but it's always very indirect and something that I feel as though I don't have much of a grasp of in regards to my actual ego.

Furthermore, I'm left to some confusion regarding intuition aswell. I've always considered introverted intuition to be a systematic understanding that you take with you and develop on throughout your life. However, When socionics talks about this understanding flowing easily through time, I begin to question as to whether introverted intuition is in my ego block. Overall I tend to be rather unorganized within my own thoughts, yet very organized regarding the overarching goals that I set for myself and the overarching principles that I establish for myself.

I tend to identify much more with introverted thinking in my ego block and a POLR of Se. Considering this, I would then consider myself to be an LII.

Is this agreeable with what I've written though? Also, is there anything that I could do to make this more distinguishable?

[Esaman]

At the moment it seems as though that I don't fit into either of the categories most commonly represented by MBTI INFJs. I believe that I have a rough feel for what's morally right/wrong and what's fair, but I never really end up bringing those kinds of moral convictions far into consciousness. At the same time, however, my personal feelings are always more important to me than that of others. They tend be highly influenced by other people, but it's always very indirect and something that I feel as though I don't have much of a grasp of in regards to my actual ego.

Bringing moral convictions and such far into consciousness is exactly what I personally enjoy doing. I think it applies to INTj in general that they would not like to admit it if they couldn't explain and support their principles logically. Ethical type is lot more likely go "this are my principles because they feel right". So INFj is more likely than INTj, and then there is whole lot of other types.

If you agree that you are F>T, what are your reasons to be j>p?

[Ben Teskey]

Bringing moral convictions and such far into consciousness is exactly what I personally enjoy doing. I think it applies to INTj in general that they would not like to admit it if they couldn't explain and support their principles logically. Ethical type is lot more likely go "this are my principles because they feel right". So INFj is more likely than INTj, and then there is whole lot of other types.

If you agree that you are F>T, what are your reasons to be j>p?

I actually agree to the opposite. I identify more with NT than NF in pretty much any temperament system. In the MBTI system I would focus most of my attention on Ti related areas, yet Fe would still vastly spill over into consciousness.

It might be easier to type you if you state exactly what it is in various descriptions of Se, Ti etc. that you identify with, and offer some real life examples of how you think and act in certain situations, or if you describe yourself/describe how others see you/describe what you like doing and why/post a picture.

It's a bit ambiguous when someone states that they identify with "Ti-base descriptions", because the descriptions vary quite a bit in their accuracy and universality, e.g. that Ni/time thing has always been completely confusing to me, and I'm Ni-base

Okay. To make this easier, I'll quote from the WSwiki and bold the areas that strongly apply to me. Of course, It would be unreasonable to do every possible function for every possible block, so I'll provide an underview below a few likely possibilities for my type.

(LII)
LIIs are adept at organizing their understanding into structured thought. They may organize their cogitations into categories, diagrams, formulaic descriptions, or complex step by step explanations. LIIs may have an uncanny knack for understanding, constructing, and deconstructing the abstract and delicate internal workings of abstract systems like computers, natural phenomena, gadgets, abstract concepts, mathematical equations, and anything that captures their interest. They may be extremely precise in their understanding and can tend strive for highly detailed realizations. They can be skilled at synthesizing new information and incorporating into their established categories. They are often attracted to fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, or other areas of study that deal with highly structured information systems.

LIIs are often highly attuned to the premises of logical consistency and adherence to predefined principles. They may use such unifying principles as a basis off of which to make normative or philosophical judgments and often seek to communicate these ideas to others. LIIs can be difficult for others to understand because they tend to avoid explaining the intermediate steps in their reasoning, seeing only the conclusion as important.

LIIs are, in the colloquial sense, highly rational creatures and may pride themselves on so being. They may live highly structured or regimented lifestyles and can be quite proactive.

The concept of organization and structure doesn't make sense to me here. I'm not sure as to whether I necessarily strive for structure or whether I'm really adept at structuring much of anything. If I am an LII, then I'd definitely be in the intuitive subtype. I know that I often try to establish frameworks where concepts would otherwise be left open-ended. I do pride myself in rationality much more than any form of ethical understanding. I don't really believe I have much of a niche for the latter of the two realms. The part about leaving out many of the steps in my thought process is also very true, and is actually something that others commonly pick up on.

(IEI)

IEIs typically have richly developed mental landscapes. They are highly attuned to trends, patterns, and conceptual connections of past behaviors, experiences, relationships, and their role in the world. They are often highly reflective and imaginative, and the fantastic tendencies of IEIs are often vivid and complex. Many IEIs find an inner calling to express their unique perspectives, and often find ways to make use of a myriad of expressive forms, sometimes including poetry, novels, storytelling, photography, or other media.

IEIs may also demonstrate their phrenic activities by assessing connections, patterns, and implications of events in their experience, often with a human slant. They may seek to understand the dynamics and mechanisms of people, groups, relationships, situations, or experiences. They make judgments and assessments of others based on past trends and behaviors and seek to explain what makes others tick.

IEIs not infrequently may appear to tend to exhibit a mystical and intangible quality to their insights, and may base their ideas on observations that are not readily apparent to others. This causes the ideas of IEIs to be sometimes frustrating and confusing for more practically minded individuals. IEIs sometimes exacerbate this problem by getting lost in their thoughts, and are often prone to having difficulty expressing their inner perceptions to others effectively.

Often IEIs exhibit a dreamy and gentle demeanor. They can come across as fickle, indecisive and vapid, and their fantasies can be often esoteric; they often may seem idealistic and focused on unrealistic or other-worldly utopias. They also can demonstrate a lack of attentiveness to daily affairs, and sometimes a generally withdrawn, inactive deportment. At the same time, they sometimes can be prophetic, prescient, and profound in their visions, and sometimes reflect a far more rebellious, aggressive, or outspoken demeanor.


These traits are very confusing. I can identify with having lead Ni using jung's language, but definitely not with Ne in his explicit terms. Here, It seems as though I could identify with either one. But if I'm an Ne ego block in socionics and a lead function Ni in MBTI, then I'm invariably going to be thrown down a path of confusion.

Ego Block (EII)

With blocked with , EIIs have a strong personal value system and strive to embody their own ideals.
1. Introverted Ethics

EIIs are very attuned to the psychological atmosphere of interaction and to their own feelings towards people and things. They treasure deep feelings of attachment and strive to deepen emotional bonds between people and harmonize relationships. When those people that the EII is close to suffer emotionally, the EII will do everything in her power to raise the emotional condition in the individual, often at the EII's expense.

EIIs are very capable of "sizing people up". They rely heavily on their instincts to understand the inner feelings of an individual. They are very empathetic people and find it very easy to feel with others. This makes them very sensitive to the moods of people, and they treat them the way they want to be treated, that is, with respect.

I'm sure this applies to a fair extent, but certainly doesn't occupy a major chunk of my ego, nor nearly as much as this description describes.
2. Extraverted Intuition

EIIs have a natural understanding of people's inner makeup and see what can be done with that makeup to bring them closer to ideals. EIIs have a very well-developed view of what people and relationships should be like and are able to help others reach those ideals.

EIIs understand people very well. They often give good advice, and have a strong understanding of the inner workings of even the most complicated minds. They have well developed ideas concerning ideal emotional states for individuals, and always have advice as to how an individual can reach that ideal.

One of the largest complaints of EIIs revolve around the idea of "wasted potential." A lot of their neuroses, and "drive," come from fears that they are not achieving the maximum possible ideal in a certain field or area of life. Unlike IEEs, though, EIIs consider "leveraging potential" more in terms of depth - mastery of one or several specific areas - rather than breadth.

I'm not entirely sure as to what it means to have a "good understanding" of people. I mean, I'd like to assume that I'm this mystic who can see people from the inside out; but if that's true, then I'm not seeing much of any hint of it.

Hmm... Let's try this description.

(LII)

LIIs are usually lacking in outward emotional energy. LIIs may typically seem stiff, cold, rational, unresponsive to emotional concerns, and overly formal in social settings. LIIs may feel uneasy and insecure about their adaptability to social situations. They appreciate the interactive efforts of others to make them feel comfortable, at ease, and a part of the group. They tend to liven up in situations of amusement and conviviality. In situations where they feel comfortable and unconditionally accepted, they may drop their tendency towards aloofness and engage in uncharacteristic silliness.

LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions.

LIIs may be quite susceptible to acting in accordance to the mood of others, and may undervalue the importance of avoiding argumentation on their mental well-being.


I'm now pretty much positive that Fe/Fi aren't in my ego block. I may be sensitive to the emotions of others, but it can be pretty dependent on the situation and I tend to be very conservative in these situations. The first sentence, alone, is very true for me.

Oh, and this thread seems to point out the distinctions between the territory that MBTI and Socionics occupy regarding the functions.

Ni	Recognize unfolding processes over time. - : p Visons of past and future - Maybe Mental images - Yeah Hidden relationships between people, processes, and events Maybe Trends beyond the physical - Probably	Ni	Paradoxes and contradictions to new understandings New, unimagined realizations Sureness of the future Uses symbols to represent abstract connections and predictions Systems -> universal realizations
Ne	Ability to recognize possibilities and opportunities - Yes Recognize talent and propensities in others - Yeah Rapidly generate ideas - I doubt it Pick a few options and stick with them - Yep Juxtaposes the seemingly unrelated - Yep	Ne	Many possible interpretations from one idea - No Juggles many ideas considering each as possibly true - mm... No Weaves themes together - I don't even.. No Plays with possible situations and scenarios - Yes Brings concepts in from the “here and now” outside - Maybe

Ti	Logical consistency and correctness - Yeah Classification of systems - Yeah Similarities, differences, and correlations between concepts and objects - beauty, symmetry, etc - Yep Internal consistency of positions - Yep Personal standards of truth rather than those of authority - Very true	Ti	The right word for clear expression of an idea Awareness of the essential underlying qualities of an object “Inherentness” and general principles Classification of systems Take something apart to see how it works Different sides of an issue to find inconsistency Logical inconsistencies between frameworks to evaluate likely accuracy
Te	How, what, when, and where of events - No External activity and its rationale/functionality/usefulness - Possibly Factual accuracy and consistency as demonstrated - Maybe	Te	Planning, scheduling, and organizing No Efficiency and productivity No Reasonable conclusions based on external facts Yeah Urges one to follow someone else’s logic, sequence, order Maybe

Hopefully this provided a bit more insight.

[Ben Teskey]

Well, you seem to have valued and confident Ni and Ti, and devalued Ne (the things you agree with in the Ne descriptions are sometimes what I'd consider Ni > Ne anyway, e.g. sticking to a few options). If you were LII, I would expect you to care a lot more about your creative Ne. Also, you seem a more attuned to F than I'd expect from a Ti base (vastly spill over etc.).

From that I would say IEI is most likely - Ti is hidden agenda, which means you care a lot about it and work on it, sometimes to the point of obsession, but it's still somewhat neurotic, in that if someone picks holes in your logic you start to feel a bit panicky. A lot of IEIs here have strong hidden agendas (e.g. me, siuntal, Pookie). LSI would be Ti base and Ni hidden agenda, which could also work but you seem to have some Fe and no Se. What in the Se PoLR descriptions did you identify with? IEI and LII males often look similar, so those are the two I'd look at for now. Luckily they're also 2 of the most common self typings here, so it shouldn't be too hard to see where you fit :)

What do you feel like you need more in a partner? Someone who has confidence in you and helps you achieve what you think you ought to be capable of by dealing with the practicalities, or someone who is fun and warm, and helps you socialise?

Also these "common social roles" imo give a general feel for distinguishing LIIs and IEIs:

LII

The lone repository of truth — the last stalwart in a crazy world of illogic and delusion.

The self-sacrificing workaholic who works hard, not in order to earn money, but because he doesn't want to give anything less than 100%.

Mr. or Ms. Literal, who says exactly what (s)he means, and trusts that you will too.

The book worm who spends every moment of every day reading.

The smart aleck who never lets authorities tell him what to think and always finds a way to get the last word.

The specialist who devotes every waking moment to excelling in an extremely narrow but highly competitive technical field.

IEI:

The poet who becomes enamored of expressing his idiosyncratic vision of life, taking no interest in the quotidian affairs of man.

The survivor who, by maintaining good relations with all factions simultaneously, always survives political or corporate upheavals.

The good-natured tag-along who likes to be attached to groups and provides constant comic relief.


Maybe also try going to the Alpha and Beta subforums to see which quadra suits better.

Oh, wow. : p I didn't know that about the IEI. I suppose I should do some more research between the two, then things should be pretty clear.

What do you feel like you need more in a partner? Someone who has confidence in you and helps you achieve what you think you ought to be capable of by dealing with the practicalities, or someone who is fun and warm, and helps you socialise?

[QUOTE]
Both are nice characteristics, but the former is much more true.

LII

The lone repository of truth — the last stalwart in a crazy world of illogic and delusion.

The self-sacrificing workaholic who works hard, not in order to earn money, but because he doesn't want to give anything less than 100%.

Mr. or Ms. Literal, who says exactly what (s)he means, and trusts that you will too.

The book worm who spends every moment of every day reading.

The smart aleck who never lets authorities tell him what to think and always finds a way to get the last word.

The specialist who devotes every waking moment to excelling in an extremely narrow but highly competitive technical field.

IEI:

The poet who becomes enamored of expressing his idiosyncratic vision of life, taking no interest in the quotidian affairs of man.

The survivor who, by maintaining good relations with all factions simultaneously, always survives political or corporate upheavals.

The good-natured tag-along who likes to be attached to groups and provides constant comic relief.

IEI definitely fits better in the context of social behavior. I suppose constantly going into analytical loops would provide an illusion of a Ti ego.

Alright, I think I have a good enough grasp to effectively self type. Thanks. :)

[silke]

IEI definitely fits better in the context of social behavior. I suppose constantly going into analytical loops would provide an illusion of a Ti ego.

Alright, I think I have a good enough grasp to effectively self type. Thanks.

if you can feel yourself actively going into an analysis mode it's probably mobilizing Ti rather than leading Ti, as octo said some IEIs tend to focus on their Ti quite a bit especially the intuitive subtype

base function is almost imperceptible in comparison to creative or mobilizing functions, which register more strongly in the conscious experience