Doubt my ILE-ness? Well come on in

[mu4]

emo stuff

I did back it up... I mean I linked a article, my commentary on that article.... I mean just because my comments aren't in some text book somewhere... lol

[mu4]

Since now I don't think @hkkmr to be capable of giving an accurate typing, I'm too lazy to yield to his requests about "displaying " (wtf?). Sorry!

I will respond to a couple of things though:

Nope. That's why I didn't bring it up in what I said in that video, and why I relied on explaining how it's not consistent from what has already been said. I mentioned the individuals as a source for @lungs to check the triviality of where it originated, but I've already made my case on why they are contradictory.

I hold credibility over people who make sense. As I said, I've yet to hear anybody make a reasonable argument about the tritypes, yourself included.

Credibility, oh hohohohoho..

You are talking about what I said about school systems? I said that I actually disliked how important those groups and cliques seem to be to the American culture. Again, what I said went over your head, apparently.

I'm beginning to think that this is just becoming personal with you, and you are just arguing against me as an emotional response to you not liking me... y/y?

EDIT: WAIT... asking for information is now v. seeking? hahahahaha. So then, I guess EVERYBODY in academia must be some sort of ethical type.

hkkmr, you need to create your own system. Your distortions are logically inconsistent, and do not agree with what has been said.

It's your job to prove your type to me if you think something about it, not for me to prove my doubt of your self-typing. I gave you my why for my personal opinion, and here you are trying to take this into the realm of objective science.

Remember, this is only a test...

You know how I prove things in my job, I don't talk about it, I don't give information...

I do it, I create it, I materialize it somehow. Plain and simple. This is how science proves things, by doing, by creating, by smashing atoms, by making devices, not by talking, that's just the foreplay.

[Esaman]

I was giving him .

I just checked all your post that precede his rant I quoted.
You haven't presented a single argument. All you gave him is your unsupported opinion and loads of bullshit not addressing the his questions. So no, you haven't given him any Ti. Creative function isn't always on and apparent..

[ashlesha]

oh my god hkkmr. he's asking for your reasoning to consider, not asking for a pissing contest. you're being an ass.

"remember this is only a test" wtf? you can't just talk to him like a normal person because its too risky for your ego?

[Phthalate]

I just checked all your post that precede his rant I quoted.
You haven't presented a single argument. All you gave him is your unsupported opinion and loads of bullshit not addressing the his questions. So no, you haven't given him any Ti. Creative function isn't always on and apparent..

Thank you! For a second there, I thought I was the only one who could see this!

oh my god hkkmr. he's asking for your reasoning to consider, not asking for a pissing contest. you're being an ass.

"remember this is only a test" wtf? you can't just talk to him like a normal person because its too risky for your ego?

Me thinks his ego is too fragile at the moment, and is now acting like a chihuahua backed into a corner. I don't think he has any way to validate his reasoning, so he is just biting back any way he can

Credibility, oh hohohohoho..



It's your job to prove your type to me if you think something about it, not for me to prove my doubt of your self-typing. I gave you my why for my personal opinion, and here you are trying to take this into the realm of objective science.

Remember, this is only a test...

You know how I prove things in my job, I don't talk about it, I don't give information...

I do it, I create it, I materialize it somehow. Plain and simple. This is how science proves things, by doing, by creating, by smashing atoms, by making devices, not by talking, that's just the foreplay.

.

[Absurd]

Bare in mind hkkmr self-types ILE E5 as well, so that means he really is IEE.

[mu4]

I just checked all your post that precede his rant I quoted.
You haven't presented a single argument. All you gave him is your unsupported opinion and loads of bullshit not addressing the his questions. So no, you haven't given him any Ti. Creative function isn't always on and apparent..

He's had 6 months...



In Model A, it's simple. base + not creative = IEE.

That's

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post885643

I did give him supporting evidence...

Of course, I only did this once I was certain he did not think I had any credibility...

[mu4]

oh my god hkkmr. he's asking for your reasoning to consider, not asking for a pissing contest. you're being an ass.

"remember this is only a test" wtf? you can't just talk to him like a normal person because its too risky for your ego?

I'm sorry kassie, I'm a bad boy and not a normal person.

[fen]

It keeps being mentioned that Phthalate is exhibiting > ...but if he were IEE, he would have less proficiency with than an ILE would. Sooo..I'm not even sure that's a sound reason to type him IEE, as an IEE has less proficiency in than an ILE would. So ILE kinda makes more sense in that regard.

I have no clear opinion on Phthalate's type other than base and sub...
I'm not very helpful.

[FoxOnStilts]

You're Ne base, and your creative function isn't very obvious, so you must be IEE.


???????????

[ashlesha]

I'm sorry kassie, I'm a bad boy and not a normal person.

okay. just keep not actually addressing anything. cute. even esaman said you were full of bullshit in this thread so its not just me being esi or whatever.

[ashlesha]

It keeps being mentioned that Phthalate is exhibiting > ...but if he were IEE, he would have less proficiency with than an ILE would. Sooo..I'm not even sure that's a sound reason to type him IEE, as an IEE has less proficiency in than an ILE would. So ILE kinda makes more sense in that regard.

I have no clear opinion on Phthalate's type other than base and sub...
I'm not very helpful.

its not about proficiency, its about focus and value. but i think at this point hkkmr has turned this into too much of an ego thing for this thread to bear any fruit anyway.

[Phthalate]

You're Ne base, and your creative function isn't very obvious, so you must be IEE.


???????????

Crazy logic dude. 1 apple + 1 apple are 2 apples, even if one of the apples is actually a dog and the counter doesn't know better.

[mu4]

1. Thinking

When describing extraverted thinking, I gave a brief characterization of introverted thinking, to which at this stage I must make further reference. Introverted thinking is primarily orientated by the subjective factor. At the least, this subjective factor is represented by a subjective feeling of direction, which, in the last resort, determines judgment. Occasionally, it is a more or less finished image, which to some extent, serves as a standard. This thinking may be conceived either with concrete or with abstract factors, but always at the decisive points it is orientated by subjective data. Hence, it does not lead from concrete experience back again into objective things, but always to the subjective content, External facts are not the aim and origin of this thinking, although the introvert would often like to make it so appear. It begins in the subject, and returns to the subject, although it may [p. 481] undertake the widest flights into the territory of the real and the actual. Hence, in the statement of new facts, its chief value is indirect, because new views rather than the perception of new facts are its main concern. It formulates questions and creates theories; it opens up prospects and yields insight, but in the presence of facts it exhibits a reserved demeanour. As illustrative examples they have their value, but they must not prevail. Facts are collected as evidence or examples for a theory, but never for their own sake. Should this latter ever occur, it is done only as a compliment to the extraverted style. For this kind of thinking facts are of secondary importance; what, apparently, is of absolutely paramount importance is the development and presentation of the subjective idea, that primordial symbolical image standing more or less darkly before the inner vision. Its aim, therefore, is never concerned with an intellectual reconstruction of concrete actuality, but with the shaping of that dim image into a resplendent idea. Its desire is to reach reality; its goal is to see how external facts fit into, and fulfil, the framework of the idea; its actual creative power is proved by the fact that this thinking can also create that idea which, though not present in the external facts, is yet the most suitable, abstract expression of them. Its task is accomplished when the idea it has fashioned seems to emerge so inevitably from the external facts that they actually prove its validity.

I just have a idea, and it's I'm just trying to marshal the facts into place, not provide any facts of my own. I'll let Phthalate provide the evidence, it's his typing that we're examining.

[Radio]

^ lol @ that "I AM A TI TYPE THEREFORE ALL MY LOGIC IS CIRCULAR"

[fen]

its not about proficiency, its about focus and value. but i think at this point hkkmr has turned this into too much of an ego thing for this thread to bear any fruit anyway.

If dichotomies are taken seriously, which I know they are kinda shunned by some and embraced by others..
I find Phthalate is likely declaring > asking. For what it's worthhh.

[Phthalate]

Facts are collected as evidence or examples for a theory, but never for their own sake. Should this latter ever occur, it is done only as a compliment to the extraverted style. For this kind of thinking facts are of secondary importance; what, apparently, is of absolutely paramount importance is the development and presentation of the subjective idea,

I'm glad to see you have finally brought SOMETHING to the table. Bravo sir.

Watch my first video. I addressed that. I addressed that with my shitty beer example that didn't come across aas right. That just because something is told to you, it doesn't hold truth. That you have to analyze what it truly means.

If they tell you that a person who drinks 3-4 beers every day has a bigger chance of contracting cancer than someone who drinks 6 or more, it doesn't mean that high levels of alcohol are better for you, or that 6 beers a day DECREASES the chances of cancer. It might mean something else. It might mean that people develop SOMETHING else before they are even able to develop cancer, etc.

Additionally...

what, apparently, is of absolutely paramount importance is the development and presentation of the subjective idea,

HAVENT I BEEN ASKING THIS IN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY POSTS IN THIS MOTHER FUCKING THREAD?! including THE MOTHER FUCKING ORIGINAL POST?

I suggest putting your idea and emotions about me to the side, and reread every single one of my posts in this thread. If you can't see how what YOU posted about Ti relates to what I'm seeing, then you might want to re-enroll in grade school out of fear of you skipping on reading comprehension skills.

[mu4]

You're Ne base, and your creative function isn't very obvious, so you must be IEE.

???????????

Actually I said he didn't show (Not ). I didn't say he didn't show . But I'm not certain.

[mu4]

I'm glad to see you have finally brought SOMETHING to the table. Bravo sir.

Watch my first video. I addressed that. I addressed that with my shitty beer example that didn't come across aas right. That just because something is told to you, it doesn't hold truth. That you have to analyze what it truly means.

If they tell you that a person who drinks 3-4 beers every day has a bigger chance of contracting cancer than someone who drinks 6 or more, it doesn't mean that high levels of alcohol are better for you, or that 6 beers a day DECREASES the chances of cancer. It might mean something else. It might mean that people develop SOMETHING else before they are even able to develop cancer, etc.

Additionally...

HAVENT I BEEN ASKING THIS IN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY POSTS IN THIS MOTHER FUCKING THREAD?! including THE MOTHER FUCKING ORIGINAL POST?

I suggest putting your idea and emotions about me to the side, and reread every single one of my posts in this thread. If you can't see how what YOU posted about Ti relates to what I'm seeing, then you might want to re-enroll in grade school out of fear of you skipping on reading comprehension skills.

Dude, you're the one getting emotional. I just wanted to see how you would behave. Why don't you re-read my posts eh?

I do not care about this like you obviously do. I have a opinion, which I'm trying to gather evidence for, so I'm having this dialogue with you. That's it. I'm not trying to persuade anyone, or be formal or tell you what your type is. If you self-type ILE, go ahead, will it change my opinion, probably not. What's the point of fighting me about my opinion?

Is there some sort of magical power you will get if you prove me wrong? Can you prove me wrong?

I'm sorry dude, but I can't really give you info about yourself without subjecting it to my interpretation. I can maybe interpret a few things you have said and done, but ultimately you can choose to dismiss those interpretations which you have. Fine.

IMO, give it up, there's nothing to prove or disprove at this time. People's opinions are just that and mine is based on the whole of my observation of you and my understanding of the topic at hand. You can persuade people with your video or what not but ultimately, that act of persuasion is mere rhetoric and not definitive.

I doubt I can persuade you of your type and I wouldn't try to either, since I don't think it's appropriate to convince you of something I'm uncertain of. I see in you, but I don't see the and that's about all there is to it.

People are taking this way too seriously, why does it even matter what I think. All I have is a couple of ideas looking for some evidence, am I supposed to give them up for no reason at all.

[Phthalate]

Kk. Hkkmr is wrong. Moving on.

[Roro]

I'm a ILE-Fi, or IEE-Ti

You be those two, I'll be ExE-Te or LxE-Fe who needs some stereotypical Fi love in her life. Wooo!

FWIW, based on interactions alone, since I have met you, as well as a supposed IEE and ILE from this forum in person, you would fall closer to IEE.

BUT WHAT THE FUCK DO I KNOW!



Socionics.

[mu4]

Me thinks his ego is too fragile at the moment, and is now acting like a chihuahua backed into a corner. I don't think he has any way to validate his reasoning, so he is just biting back any way he can.

Way to dismiss subjective logic here and make a jibe at me.

You didn't back me into a corner, since I was just observing from my corner to begin with. I haven't barked in this entire thread, you're the one barking. Saying, "Why won't you do what I tell you", while I've basically just said.

"No", "Give it up", "I'm not going to persuade you", "I don't have anything conclusive", "I still think you're IEE", etc etc etc....

I've been very honest in my discussion with you although it has been my intent to reject whatever it is you want me to do for you.

Have I for even a moment expected you to believe me. No.

A. Is there any way to persuade you?
B. If answer is no, why should I bother?
C. If I'm uncertain, why should I bother?
D. If I don't give you what you want enough you'll eventually reveal your personality, why shouldn't I do that?

I've given you my reasoning, albet it's subjective and based on ONLY MY PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS. Yet you keep wanting more? More what?

I told you that you need to figure it out yourself, and you're still complaining I haven't given you anything.

So here goes again, "Figure it out yourself..." My opinion will be based on what I observe from you, not what you tell me.

[mu4]

Kk. Hkkmr is wrong. Moving on.

Haha, very funny. I've been right AND wrong plenty of times in my life. Maybe one day we will know who's right or wrong and there'll be an "I told you so" somewhere verbalized.

[Creepy-Snaps]

I'll add my 2cents to the thread.

Phthalate, I also think you're IEE, as I suggested on tinycam, before I realized others suspected that of you also (no bias).

1) From watching you, you have a very laid-back, non-expressive demeanor in general, very typical of Fi Deltas, and I find it hard that you would be a Merry Alpha. I get the impression that you react indifferently towards Fe. When Jadae or someone says 'wtf' very expressively, you barely notice/react. I have a hard time seeing Fe being your mobilizing (6th) function.

2) Most of your arguments or 'logic' is very subjective-based, impression-oriented, and reminds me eerily of Maritsa:

Kk. Hkkmr is wrong. Moving on.

This defiance sounds like a Delta NF scorn. But, you create this thread asking for people's opinions, and then hkkmr expresses his opinion, and you get upset because it's different from your own? It doesn't look like you're being open-minded, as much as you're just looking for 'ILE confirmation'.

Overall, I get the impression that you're an IEE trying to be logical. (I know from experience about trying to be something you're not ) Let me ask, why do you identify with ILE? What makes you want to be an ILE as opposed to IEE? IEE's are great people too.

[Esaman]

From watching you, you have a very laid-back, non-expressive demeanor

Really? The first thing I noticed in the first video was Fe, which was also a bit awkward.

[Absurd]

Overall, I get the impression that you're an IEE trying to be logical. (I know from experience about trying to be something you're not )

That means you're ESI trying to be logical, doesn't it?

[ashlesha]

i think he's fairly expressive. but the amount and style of his expressiveness doesn't really tell me anything either way. if he's fe HA then its not of the corny and overdone variety but that doesn't mean its completely ruled out. I'm fine with fe demonstrative but its not his level of expressiveness in particular that tells me anything. he just seems ep.

[Esaman]

for example on the 33rd second. That definitely was corny and overdone.

Phthalate, sorry for bringing attention to this.
We all have alternative embarrassing behaviors.

[FoxOnStilts]

What makes you want to be an ILE as opposed to IEE? IEE's are great people too.

Oh, he has no problem with IEEs.

[mu4]

I'm glad to see you have finally brought SOMETHING to the table. Bravo sir.

I missed this but I was talking about myself and how I was using in a exploratory fashion to determine if my idea of you had any validity. Althrough I am a valuer, I'm fundamentally a type which changes the expression of my a bit.

As far as figuring out your own type, why don't you figure it out yourself as I am trying to figure it out. Since you have all the relevant facts and figures at your fingertip, I don't really see a need for you to get info from others or seek persuasion from others.

[xerx]

Your ENT-pness is sexy.

[Esaman]

I was talking about myself.....

That is all you did in this tread, even though the subject is Phthalate's type. This is your 3rd post after Phthalate said he moved on. Leave it. Haven't you received enough Fi schooling for today?

[mu4]

That is all you did in this tread, even though the subject is Phthalate's type. This is your 3rd post after Phthalate said he moved on. Leave it. Haven't you received enough Fi schooling for today?

No? Why would I do that? I talked about far more than myself, I talked about how tritype might be explained which involves some fairly heavy philosophy concepts concerning binary and trinary system, I talked about a few other things as well such as QM.

He might have moved on from me, but maybe there will be other individuals and audience members in the thread which will enjoy or not enjoy my comments. I don't write for Phthalate alone.

Also I edit my posts a lot so it's changed now.

I'm not the only person to type him IEE either... but maybe just one to tilt this windmill a bit.

[glam]

You're Ne base, and your creative function isn't very obvious, so you must be IEE.


???????????

it's more like

A "talk to me about my type, people"
B "you're Ne-base & i don't see Ti, so IEE is a good possibility"
A "tell me why you think i'm IEE"
B "i already did"
A "i don't like your explanation, so you're wrong"

[Phthalate]

This one is long :\. 27 minutes... sorry. I go more into detail here.

People I adressed here:
@fenryrr @hkkmr @Aerorobyn @Esaman @Snaps @lungs

Additionally, this is not a 'help me figure out my type'. This is a 'you don't think I'm an ILE? Why? Tell me!"... this is a thread where people give me their opinion and we can have a debate about it. This is not a call for help.

[Phthalate]

it's more like

A "talk to me about my type, people"
B "you're Ne-base & i don't see Ti, so IEE is a good possibility"
A "tell me why you think i'm IEE"
B "I'm withdrawing that information, and no matter how many times you ask me, I'm not gonna give it to you"
A "Ok cool later"

Fixed

[Creepy-Snaps]

This one is long :\. 27 minutes... sorry. I go more into detail here.

"This video has been removed because it is too long."

I think videos on Youtube must be under 15 minutes, until your account becomes eligible for longer ones.

[Phthalate]

"This video has been removed because it is too long."

I think videos on Youtube must be under 15 minutes, until your account becomes eligible for longer ones.

Fucking seriously?!

Ugh, alright. Thanks... I'll work on this in a bit.

[glam]

Fixed

sorry, that's not really what i see. but please carry on ...

[Creepy-male]

You realize the enneagram is basically a modern derivative of a system developed by Sufi Muslims, which is a muslim derivative of whirling dervishes, which are basically arabic shamans which would whirl around in a circle as part of a mystical dance to reach an entranced state which would allow them to be "enlightened".

The concept of transitions and cycles about a circle makes perfect sense in this context imo. I think the dynamics of the enneagram are very interesting and useful.

Also let me say, I don't think dynamics are the same thing as lacking a "core type" or "identity". They are just a way of understanding the ebbs and flows of that core identity.