How am I not irrational?Originally Posted by Ryan
Fenryrr!!! is!! a! merry!!! typeeeee!!!!!
Fenryrr is a serious type.
How am I not irrational?
And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.
I didn't say you weren't.
Besides, I'd avoid looking into rational/irrational and extraverted/introverted as a basis for a type for one simple reason:
There are less definite ways to test if you're rational/irrational or extraverted/introverted, unlike the other two dichotomies, and none of them are easy. The Statics / Dynamics dichotomy is actually the only way to test whether you're rational/irrational.Two of Jung's dichotomies -- rational/irrational and extraverted/introverted -- are uniform across all types. In other words, an IEE is just as extraverted (in the Jungian sense!) as an SLE. The other two dichotomies -- sensing/intuitive and ethical/logical -- are non-uniform. In other words, an ESE is not sensing in the same way that an SEE is, and an ILI is "more" intuitive than an LIE.
That is why I said, regardless if you were rational/irrational you can't relate to both IP and EP or IJ and EJ (or EJ and EP or IJ and IP). It's one of the weakest arguemnts for your type. You might as well ask "How am I not Extroverted?". So if you're going to base your type on such a risky argument then do it right and go all the way. You're either Static or Dynamic, the question is, which is it?
But like others said, there is an even easier way to know your type. Look at the other two dichotomies (sensing/intuitive and ethical/logical). You're obviously Ethical. There is little to discuss here. So I'd recommend looking at your sensing/intuitive functions.
You're welcome.Thanks, this is really helpful trav. Would being Fi-subtype put more emphasis on the demonstrative function? I guess I can never forget that night where we said the same thing at the tame time like 3-4 times.Makes me wonderrrr..
Yes it would,
sub means stronger
and
sub means stronger
. That night can't be a coincidence, it could be because we're the same Socionics type or simply being the same enneatype because there's a good chance I'm a 9w1.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Both of these statements are incredibly false.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Why?
Does that mean I'm Ni ego?From what I can tell,
+1 Haha, was just going to say the same basically. Ashton is full of BS.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
He didn't say Ni egos were the only ones who didn't have trouble with that. He was comparing to Ne egos.
I have no personal idea of how indecisive Ni egos are, but I know I am terribly indecisive. Enough that I feel confident that even if indecisiveness is also a trait of Ni ego folks, it can't be used to show someone is Ni ego over Ne ego. "I'm indecisive therefore I'm not a Delta NF" doesn't make any sense.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
It is settled, decided and confimed then. I'm not Beta NF nor Delta NF. Thanks, Slacker
LOL. I'd agree with that.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Right. Ni parents, and you have no idea.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
My parents aren't particularly indecisive.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
That's because they are decisive.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
LOL.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
i think i'm decisive generally, but inert when it comes to acting on beliefs. i'm also firmly decided that i don't want to cast judgment on a lot of issues (i.e. decided indecision).
If Ni egos don't have a problem, it doesn't logically follow that Si egos do have a problem...
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Seriously? Compared to what?
And most people who haved settled on their type do not discuss their rationality or irrationality either, or comment on how much they identify with it - you'd think that's all they would talk about, but they don't. Like I said, no one takes that argument seriously.Pretty much every other Jungian dichotomy?
e.g. Most people here unsettled on their type are XLE or XSI or whatever, none AFAIK are only unsure of their rationality. It makes sense in terms of the temperament clockfaces as well as intertype relations. When people quadra flip on their own or otherwise, they often don't change rationality, e.g. jessica (SLX), Maritsa (EIX), WA (IEX).
I don't know what you wrote.
Anyhow, fenryrr settled on IEI and that's enough for me. She now needs to convince Parkster that he is beta and everything is going to be fine. Socionics achieved, as I say.
Last edited by Absurd; 05-27-2012 at 05:14 PM.
Indecisiveness is a factor that is only loosely correlated with IE's, and is essentially NTR. Using that as a base for typing is going in the wrong direction - there are a variety of factors (such as self esteem issues, depression, etc) that can cause indecisiveness in any number of types. I've noticed that there is a tendency for people to type themselves as IEI when they are depressed (which IMO, ATM, TBH is the same mistake I made) because on a surface level a lot of what constitutes being Ni leading can translate into a depressive trait of some kind. Low levels of energy, trouble with assertiveness, and other things that sound like stereotypical traits of Ni leading can lead someone to mistype as that. That being said, the way you go about typing leads me to think you are making one of these errors. I don't see it as very plausible that you are IEI anymore. One notable reason is that you react very badly to Se. Here's what I mean by that: To me, Se has to do with exerting a kind of pressure on someone, it has to do with force, and so what happens is this can evolve into a kind of 'pressure' game between two people where each one ups the ante so to speak. To people who aren't Se valuing this kind of atmosphere can look hostile and unpleasant - its hostile to a certain degree but its not 'bad' hostility, Its a 'fun game' to those who value Se whenever these kinds of atmospheres are created. Fen seems to either shy away from it or attempt to dissipate the tension, and grows increasingly intolerant to it the more it is prolonged. Furthermore, Fen's reactions to this kind of environment are sort of alien to me and shows an 'out of sync-ness' as she has mistaken certain 'joking' in this fashion for genuine hostility. There is a low tolerance for this that almost definitively points away from being Se valuing, and especially away from anyone in the beta quadra. You also also haven't done or said anything to lead me to believe you are Ni ego, the reasons I see people attributing to this seem to be by large and wholly NTR. The two options I'm looking at for you are SEI and IEE, with SEI looking as an increasingly good option. It also correlates quite nicely with your enneagram typing, but it could go either way at this point AFAIK.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" isand not
The fact that you are torn between two very different types that have very few similarities makes me hesitant pipi.
I do not think I value Te. My dad just walked in and suggested to me that washing my clothes while sitting around on the computer is an efficient use of my time. I softly smiled and brushed the statement off. I'll do my laundry when I feel like it...which is not now.
The more time I spend with Ti types, the more I realize how much I appreciate Ti>Te. I much prefer receiving information from someone who has internalized and synthesized information..and knows what works and what doesn't..and can relay that to me. I feel like Te information makes me just kinda shrug and think, "..and?"
The difference between Si and Ne ego is huge, pi.
I'd be interested to hear your argument for SEI.
As far as me devaluing Se, my first real boyfriend was SXE...and I appreciated how he sort of got me activated.
Lane, if you care to VI him.
I don't mind play-fighting. I do that all the time; but yeah, sometimes it can be too over the top and I will try to temper that if I can..if I foresee someone's feelings potentially getting hurt.
And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.
They have more similarities than the two you're torn between.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
The problem lies in that I don't seek Ne. If I were Si-ego, I would. And I'm proficient with Ne..so I don't need that from a dual.
I think the notion that pi is torn between me being SEI and IEE is silly....I don't think it'd be easy to confuse someone for their semi-dual.
And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.
How helpful.
And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.
My mom just walked in and said this shirt looks very bad on me. I don't think I value Si.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
You guys can stop now. It isn't funny.
Look, the fact that the people who have actually met me type me as IEI (Aerorobyn, glam, hkkmr, and Ben) carries a significant amount of weight in my opinion...and shouldn't be discounted.
If anyone has something constructive to add, please do.
And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.
Edit
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
By no means... and I was actually questioning my own type lately. Guess I'll have to wait until we meet so you can tell me what you think.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Like I said, people sometimes type people what they want them to be, and that is particularly true for attractive young women. You could very well be IEI, and I would definitely give it strong consideration based on people meeting you and thinking that, but maybe you should relax for a bit and not worry about what type you are. There's no emergency.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Slacker is like the voice of reason around here. That's the level of maturity you'll achieve Fen when you grow into an awesome IEE mother of my (or some other SLI's) kids.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
ROFL
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Did I say something funny? Wow, I'm flourishing around my duals.
Last edited by Park; 05-27-2012 at 11:39 PM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Fen, I understand that the people meeting you in person holds more weight. It makes sense that would be the case - however, why do they think you are IEI? The reasoning I have heard for your typing is mostly NTR/surface impression based. It is possible that the people who meet you IRL may have a wider range of experiences to draw from, but that doesn't mean that their opinion is necessarily more accurate.
Typing people is about getting a handle of their consistent and most natural cognitive focus, not about typing based on behavioral impressions or about cherry picking isolated incidents. I could easily assign a type to you using either of that criteria, but it would be flat-out wrong. I believe you are falling into this trap, and it's going to make the process trickier than it has to be. Cognitively speaking, IEE and SEI share a quadra value while IEI is completely oppositional. You can draw on more similarities between the IEE and IEI behaviorally, but as I just said, typing that way is inaccurate. The main reason why I am undecided as to your type is because I don't know very much about you. I haven't had a personal enough conversation with you, or have enough observational experience to where I would feel comfortable narrowing it down. Alas, the limitations of the internet. My hesitancy has more to do with what I haven't observed than confusion over what I have. As an aside, semi dual confusion isn't that uncommon - there are a couple of examples of that on this board. When you don't use the right criteria in order to type someone, any kind of confusion is viable. The one thing that does stick out to me though, is the Se devaluing. Admittedly, my only argument for SEI is that I can't eliminate it for some reason. You fit some of the description for Fe creative, as well as seem plausibly (and adamantly) IP. I still need more information to conclude.The fact that you are torn between two very different types that have very few similarities makes me hesitant pipi.
I do not think I value Te. My dad just walked in and suggested to me that washing my clothes while sitting around on the computer is an efficient use of my time. I softly smiled and brushed the statement off. I'll do my laundry when I feel like it...which is not now.
The more time I spend with Ti types, the more I realize how much I appreciate Ti>Te. I much prefer receiving information from someone who has internalized and synthesized information..and knows what works and what doesn't..and can relay that to me. I feel like Te information makes me just kinda shrug and think, "..and?"
The difference between Si and Ne ego is huge, pi.
I'd be interested to hear your argument for SEI.
As far as me devaluing Se, my first real boyfriend was SXE...and I appreciated how he sort of got me activated.
Lane, if you care to VI him.
I don't mind play-fighting. I do that all the time; but yeah, sometimes it can be too over the top and I will try to temper that if I can..if I foresee someone's feelings potentially getting hurt.
I might be wrong about this, but to me it's starting to seem like you are getting attached to an IEI typing, and if that's what you want to type as, so be it. It personally doesn't matter to me what type you are. However, if you want to get to an accurate conclusion I would suggest you refrain from making statements like these - or if you do, flesh it out like you did earlier with the Te example. What do you think Ne is, and why do you not think you seek it out? What do you think Ne is, and why are you proficient at it? Otherwise, there's nothing one can do with that kind of information. Not only that, but I do feel like you don't have a good grasp of all the functions yet and so talking like this is going to paint a misleading picture of you. Anyway that's my 2 cents. There's always Slacker's advice too.
Last edited by thePirate; 05-28-2012 at 12:52 AM.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
Yeah, run away. You don't even know what you're arguing for. How can you test someone for rationality/irrationality? Answer that. Once you have ther answer, go back to my posts and start reading them carefully. Maybe then you will understand why I haven't been taking your arguments seriously. Here let me explain in a simple way you can understand.
What Fen did:
rationality/irrationality -> other type shenanigans
What I proposed:
rationality/irrationality -> static/dynamic -> type
Pretty simple process. Does she know if she is Static or Dynamic? Doesn't seem like it. Can she get that right? I don't know. I don't care. But it would be a good thing to explore either way. It's much solid than saying you're irrational and running with it, which is not enough anyway (your arguments are in conflict with this, btw). If there is any inconsistencies in the rational/irrational dichotomy, this step will flesh them out.
I wasn't being "logical" in that whole post, it's called sarcasm. And slow down with the personal attacks, if I wanted to destroy you verbally I'd have already. You have yet to offer something besides your subjective samples, and yet I rolled with it.
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