Hi everyone!
I'm new to the forum, and trying discern whether I'm an ENTP or an ENFP. Could someone articulate the basic differences between the two types?
-Justin.
Differences between ENFPs and ENTPs
Hi everyone!
I'm new to the forum, and trying discern whether I'm an ENTP or an ENFP. Could someone articulate the basic differences between the two types?
-Justin.
Justin,
At first I asked the same question for myself. And let me say that even by my questioning the difference and trying to figure it out logically was an indicator in the ENTP direction, maybe it will be for you too, who knows?
I think one thing that differentiates the two is that ENTPs will not be very sentimental. They may for example be more fascinated by how someone resolved a conflict by figuring out some cool loophole or innovated a unique solution, where an ENFP may be more interested if that person overcame the conflict by facing their true inner feelings and triumphing over them and conquering them.
Here's a personal example. When someone comes to me with a problem and is being excessively emotional over it, my first response is not to console them and get all gushy, but instead to figure out a way to help them solve the problem, a solution that will cause them to see the problem in a new light, and not as a problem at all.
It doesn't mean I'm not sensitive to people's feelings, or my own for that matter, but I think the main difference (someone correct me if I'm wrong), is that ENTP's are more interested in how systems, ideas, things, relationships (could be with people) work, and ENFP's are more idealistic, more interested in understanding and enjoying people, and will probably be more dramatic emotionally in their communication.
You may want to describe some of your interests,
Hope this helps
ENFps are more fun.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
One simple test, select one:
1-Likes/(is a) hippies
2-Hunts hippies to test new laser gun
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
the preoccupation with right and wrong (not for all, but for some)
Thank you all!
These posts help to clarify matters.
Steve, I identify with your examples. Like you, (from the sounds of it,) when someone comes to me with a problem, rather than console them, I tend to offer suggestions regarding how to solve it. Also, I identify with Oldham's Inventive type (and the associated personality disorder) moreso than his Vigilant type.
I wonder: do ENTPs actively seek affirmation as well, or is this trait peculiar to ENFPs? Furthermore, do ENTPs enjoy dense, structural minutia (eg of Heiddeger, bioengineering,) or structural theories more generally, (ie the gestalt of Heidegger, bioengineering, and their practical applications?) Do ENTPs have sentimental streaks? For example, might an ENTP enjoy the Elton John song, "Levon?" (I feel somewhat ashamed to admit this. Perhaps understandably.)
Dioklecian, point well taken. I wouldn't classify myself as a hippie.
Regarding my interests, I'm in grad school for screenwriting. I majored in art history as an undergrad, (more for the anthropological/philosophical components than the aesthetics.) I have many interests, and like just about everything, honestly--including people.
Again, thank you for the comments.
-Justin
P.S. If anyone wants to try their hand at VI, my picture's at www.myspace.com/jmarsh2
If you worked for a large corporation and you were told you had to do something boring and potentially time consuming because it was corporate policy, but it seemed like it wasn't really necessary, would it bother you to do what the corporate office wanted, or would it not be a big deal because you'd get paid either way?
How do you feel about ethical issues? If you were going to do something, and someone told you they thought it was unethical, would that really annoy you?
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
ENTP
NeitherOriginally Posted by Rocky
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Herzy, we live near each other? Come over! I'd like to meet someone new.
Nicky, good questions. As to #1--first, I would probably call the corporate HQ and explain why the task was unnecessary. If they disagreed with me, I would ask them "why" they disagreed, and to explain themselves. If they insisted, ultimately, I would do it... Doing it wouldn't bother me (deeplyhowever, I would probably let my close co-workers know how ridiculous I thought it was... And I'd gladly take the paycheck.
As to #2--I would ask the person why they believed my actions were unethical. After they explained why, I would evaluate whether I agreed or disagreed. If I agreed with their opinion, I probably wouldn't do it... If I disagreed, I would disregard their opinion, and 'agree to disagree' with them.
Thanks again for helping me, everyone.
-Justin
careful
Look at these descriptions:
http://the16types.info/function-Ti.php
http://the16types.info/function-Fi.php
One is strong in ENTps and weak/negative in ENFps, and the other is strong in ENFps and weak/negative in ENTps. So hopefully one will feel strong to you and the other will feel weak and stressful/negative in some way.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Either type may question the difference. I have been trying to figure out the differences for about 4 months now.
I get very excited when someone describes to me how they resolved a conflict/problem, especially when it is a conflict I have experienced myself, or have heard others complain about. I especially love the irony of loopholes, and tend to utilize those to my advantage when getting what I want is imperative to me or whoever I'm doing the work for.I think one thing that differentiates the two is that ENTPs will not be very sentimental. They may for example be more fascinated by how someone resolved a conflict by figuring out some cool loophole or innovated a unique solution, where an ENFP may be more interested if that person overcame the conflict by facing their true inner feelings and triumphing over them and conquering them.
"facing their true inner feelings and triumphing over them and conquering them"... ok, i'll give ya this one...though something about how it is worded irks me. Yes, I get excited when someone overcomes or learns to work around a personal block. I don't really see this as being all that much different from finding and utilizing a loophole, though.
My first instinct is not to console them nor get all gushy. I actually have to put effort into that. My daughter would rather I get all gushy or console her. It's just so...fake..to me. I do however, tend to ask a ton of questions trying to figure out as many aspects of the problem are involved. Unfortunately, it seems to mostly just satisfy my own curiosity. If I cannot find a solution that is workable by that specific person, then I will resort to cracking jokes which point out the irony of the situation.Here's a personal example. When someone comes to me with a problem and is being excessively emotional over it, my first response is not to console them and get all gushy, but instead to figure out a way to help them solve the problem, a solution that will cause them to see the problem in a new light, and not as a problem at all.
Perhaps, one thing that differentiates the enfp and entp is that as an enfp, I find it very difficult to initially refuse to at least listen to the person's problem. If it turns out to be a technical problem, then I look for something more interesting to put my mind to.
ENFps are also interested in how systems, ideas, things, relationships work. After all, aren't people themselves complex systems with complex ideas and complex relationships?It doesn't mean I'm not sensitive to people's feelings, or my own for that matter, but I think the main difference (someone correct me if I'm wrong), is that ENTP's are more interested in how systems, ideas, things, relationships (could be with people) work, and ENFP's are more idealistic, more interested in understanding and enjoying people, and will probably be more dramatic emotionally in their communication.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
This might seem strange, Nicky, but I don't identify with either of them thoroughly.
For example, I prefer 'love' (Fi) to 'subordination' (Ti)--who doesn't? But I identify more with 'choice of the best variant' (Ti) than 'pity' (Fi.) (However, if the writer used the word "compassion" instead of "pity," I would identify with it.)
Does anyone else identify with both of these?
-Justin.
Ann does a great description. I find her wonderfulEither type may question the difference. I have been trying to figure out the differences for about 4 months now.
I get very excited when someone describes to me how they resolved a conflict/problem, especially when it is a conflict I have experienced myself, or have heard others complain about. I especially love the irony of loopholes, and tend to utilize those to my advantage when getting what I want is imperative to me or whoever I'm doing the work for.I think one thing that differentiates the two is that ENTPs will not be very sentimental. They may for example be more fascinated by how someone resolved a conflict by figuring out some cool loophole or innovated a unique solution, where an ENFP may be more interested if that person overcame the conflict by facing their true inner feelings and triumphing over them and conquering them.
"facing their true inner feelings and triumphing over them and conquering them"... ok, i'll give ya this one...though something about how it is worded irks me. Yes, I get excited when someone overcomes or learns to work around a personal block. I don't really see this as being all that much different from finding and utilizing a loophole, though.
My first instinct is not to console them nor get all gushy. I actually have to put effort into that. My daughter would rather I get all gushy or console her. It's just so...fake..to me. I do however, tend to ask a ton of questions trying to figure out as many aspects of the problem are involved. Unfortunately, it seems to mostly just satisfy my own curiosity. If I cannot find a solution that is workable by that specific person, then I will resort to cracking jokes which point out the irony of the situation.Here's a personal example. When someone comes to me with a problem and is being excessively emotional over it, my first response is not to console them and get all gushy, but instead to figure out a way to help them solve the problem, a solution that will cause them to see the problem in a new light, and not as a problem at all.
Perhaps, one thing that differentiates the enfp and entp is that as an enfp, I find it very difficult to initially refuse to at least listen to the person's problem. If it turns out to be a technical problem, then I look for something more interesting to put my mind to.
ENFps are also interested in how systems, ideas, things, relationships work. After all, aren't people themselves complex systems with complex ideas and complex relationships?It doesn't mean I'm not sensitive to people's feelings, or my own for that matter, but I think the main difference (someone correct me if I'm wrong), is that ENTP's are more interested in how systems, ideas, things, relationships (could be with people) work, and ENFP's are more idealistic, more interested in understanding and enjoying people, and will probably be more dramatic emotionally in their communication.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
As I said:
Neither
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Do you have a possible solution, Dio?
I do.
However, it has been my experience with some people in this forum that my solutions fall on deaf ears.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Well, Dio, I am new to this forum, so past experiences need not restrain you... Your words might help to clarify matters.
What do you think?
-Justin.
I'd consider it an ENTP thing as well as an ENFP thing, actually some descriptions say the ENTP is the most in need of it. I'd say it's true especially when it comes to affirming an ENTP's ideas and uniqueness.
I'm reading two books on string theory and the fabric of spacetime and with that I am not necessarily concerned about the practical applications of theoretical physics, but I'm not interested in finance theories, because it's impossible to visualize them, and it doesn't leave much room for imagining possibilities like physics does, and is not as deep and much drier in my opinion.
For me one of my best sentimental outlets is through music. I particularly love R&B and Smoother jazz because of its soulful nature, and I love listening to Luther Vandross's love songs as well as Sade. I also love playing that kind of music on my saxophones and piano because of how expressive (non-verbally) I can be with it. I think it's perfectly fine for an ENTP to be able to enjoy any song that really captures what you're feeling.
Yeah me too, I'm interested in so many things, and people tell me I should go into each of the different fields I talk about. It's hard for me to decide on a specific career path. (I'm in business undergraduate and am considering consulting because you can problem solve in many different situations). I'm interested in people in the extent that I like seeing everyone's unique talents shining, but won't be overly sentimental directly with them.
So in one sentence, lol, some of the things you mentioned can go with an ENTP.
The Ti description I find boring, myself. So I never really bother to read the whole thing.
This is all I identify with regarding the Fi description: subjective emotional relationships between objects - attraction vs. repulsion, like vs. dislike, perceived need, antipathy, personal ethics, personal morals, qualitative properties, subjective judgments
Currently, I'm thinking that both the enfp and entp like delving into systems (enfp main system of interest being individual people), and both enjoy finding out the inner content/structures.
The differences, I think, have to do with what information does each look for in determining what constitutes "inner content/structure". For the ENTp, the stuff in the Ti description would apply. For the ENFp, the stuff in the Fi description applies.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Its' a complex and complicating issue, the declaration of your type to the world.
Would you care to describe your philosophy in life? And perhaps a description for your parents please?
These are of some importance, 3 paragraphs in total should be quite fine, and if I am happy with them, I will will tell you your type. No offence, but I have Joy here who for months has been after me because I suggested her type to be the conflicting type of what she thought it was. Since then, she has moved closer to what I found her to be, but still keeps bugging me and I never got even a thank you.
Cheers
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
I think you hit the nail on the head. That's kinda what I was trying to get at but just couldn't articulate it.
Steve, thanks for answering my questions! I identify with what you wrote, particularly your last paragraph. "I'm interested in people in the extent that I like seeing everyone's unique talents shining, but won't be overly sentimental directly with them." This sums up my personal observations well. (It's nice to meet like-minded people! I haven't met many, to be honest.)
Also, Anndelise-would you say that an ENFP's interests lie more in the content/structure of individuals, rather than people as a group?
Dio, regarding my philosophy, very simply: love each other. Search, investigate, discover, and achieve--for everyone's benefit--mine, others, (and others to come.) Strive, but embrace folly--everyone can learn from it. Success (and enjoyment,) to me, entails enabling a large group of people to better appreciate this world, (its wonders,) and prompting them to contribute to it.
As to my parents--they're divorced. My father runs a bank, appreciates punctuality, enjoys mowing the lawn, building things (manually and intellectually,) and reading history. Emotionally, he's somewhat distant, (although he understands 'duty' very well,) and financially, somewhat miserly, but overall, he's a good--genuinely good--person. (He wants the best for everyone--but he has very little idea how to bring that about. hehe.) My Mom is fun to converse with--very funny and smart. However, she takes on other people's emotional stresses as her own, to her psychological detriment... Also, she's more involved with others lives than her own. (For example, she's considered selling her house for five years, but hasn't 'gotten around to it' because 'something's always coming up.') I give her advice, to no effect.
Hopefully, that helps. I doubt we'll have problems similar to those you describe with Joy, Dio. I take into account what you write, and give you honest feedback.
-Justin.
Haha, Herzy!
This sounds great. Do you have a picture with your parents in it? (this is an extra request because they made me curious).
As to your type: ESFJ
Welcome !
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
With an ENFp, it's me, you, him, her, mine, yours, his, hers. Groups, are made up of individuals. It's not "we are one", but more like, "we each are working/playing together, each for differing reasons, and using differing ways".
This is not to say that an ENFp can't view a group as one entity. But when that ENFp starts to delve into that group's content/structure...then that group is generally perceived as made up of individuals with individual desires and experiences.
Also, ENFps seldom have a "it's them vs us" or "if you're not with me, your against me" view. (I don't know how ENTps view the group vs individual thing.)
(edited to add: In order for me to even write about ENFps in general, I have to mentally pull up observations made regarding individual ENFps I've interacted with in person, or seen interactions of online. Take those observations to their most basic aspects, then run those basic aspects back through the individual interactions of ENFps as well as interactions I've had with other types, before I feel comfy saying that it may be an ENFp (group) thing.)
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
I don't know if I speak for other ENTps but we're very similar to ENFPs in that regard - it's not so much an "us vs. them". Although I guess sometimes it could be seen as the conforming masses with tunnel vision against each of us as unique individuals with our own ideas. Is that ever the case with ENFps?
Hehehe, I think members of each type sometimes have that view. I've even heard ESFjs talking about that feeling. But then, what they consider as "against them" is almost laughable to me...and of course, what I consider as "against me" is trivial to them.I don't know if I speak for other ENTps but we're very similar to ENFPs in that regard - it's not so much an "us vs. them". Although I guess sometimes it could be seen as the conforming masses with tunnel vision against each of us as unique individuals with our own ideas. Is that ever the case with ENFps?
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
God, every post steve makes gives me agita...
Ann- thank you.
When I read the Ti description, particularly the "positive" section, I think, "reality, eh; detail, I am definitely not detail oriented; carefulness, I'm not really careful; laws, eh; instructions, I never read instructions; organization, eh."
But when I read the Fi description, particularly the "positive" section, I think, "yes, yes yes yes yes." Though I don't like the word "pity" either. I'd say "empathy" or "compassion." A lot of socionics things are translated from Russian so the words aren't always precise.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Any particular reason?
To put it simply; you come off as completely self-centered, and it seems like you suffer from Grandeur.Any particular reason?
I'm sorry if it comes across that way to you, because those are not my intentions at all. I can just as easily pay a compliment as take one, infact many times I feel more comfortable paying one first!
If you're judging especially by my first post on the forum, I was not trying to brag, I was just trying to lay everything out on the table so that everyone could get the whole picture as to my interests, strengths and weaknesses, and form an opinion as to what type I was by taking in the whole picture, which is what I would ask someone to do if I were typing them (maybe that's just my style).
Usually I tend to be very direct and sometimes abstract when communicating and try to cover a lot of ground at once, so sometimes I'll just for the sake of argument take some ideas to be given, and ignore minor quirks or exceptions, so that we can further the discussion to a higher and deeper level; perhaps that comes across as arrogant to you.
The way I learn concepts and form ideas about things is to understand a rough framework, then notice patterns (for example some basic traits, even if somewhat stereotypical, about different socionics types, so I can at least form some basic framework, so I can learn more about different people and continue to have positive interactions with them, not get frustrated from miscommunication and misunderstanding, and appreciate the richness of the diversity people have to offer.) Maybe you view some of my assumptions as arrogant, but I'm simply making assumptions just to have some foundation to build on.
Btw - I hate getting caught up in some details that prevents me from getting to the bigger picture. It's like trying to drive down a road and encountering potholes every few feet. When I jump over some of the details, it's not that I think I'm better than them, it's that I process things best by grapsing the big picture first and then filling them in, so bear with me. :wink:
They come off as arrogant, because they all revolve around how great you are, and everything you do, with seemingly little attention to anyone else, or their types.
Perhaps at first because until about 2 weeks ago I was trying to solidify what type I was and make some distinction, and draw from some personal experience so that it would make sense to me. That may have come across as self centered but wasn't meant to be.They come off as arrogant, because they all revolve around how great you are, and everything you do, with seemingly little attention to anyone else, or their types.
A lot of ideas I do draw from personal experience, so the words "I" or "me" may appear often, but if you're judging on how I helped Justin in this thread, my goal was to make him feel that there were other people who saw things similarly, similarities he could identify with, which is what I was originally looking for when I first came into this forum, which I don't think was selfish at all.
I like to generally give people as much information as possible and love doing so, and it's easier to speak from my experience then to speculate on what other people may be thinking exactly internally.
I would be more than happy to discuss other people and their types and have tried to do so in this thread, it's just that at first in the forum I needed some attention so I could figure things out.
Thanks to everyone who has responded!
Dio, I identify with many of the ESFJ traits listed on the the16types.info profile section. (Honestly, it's the only type I've seriously considered aside from ENFP and ENTP...) Victor Hugo, the ESFJ's exemplar, is one of my personal heroes. Frankly, I'd love to be an ESFJ!
Though I identify with the profile as a whole, I don't recognize myself in its specific components. For example--as I understand it, an 'S' type does not live mostly in the future, and express strong interest in the new and 'unusual.' (If I'm wrong, please correct me.) Also, a 'J' type isn't always late, inconsistent, (despite efforts to the contrary,) and messy.
Perhaps I'm a "failed" ESFJ, masquerading as an ENTP.
Steve, I appreciate your comments. To me, they did not come across as self-promotional.
Thanks again,
-Justin.
Hi Justin.Thanks to everyone who has responded!
Dio, I identify with many of the ESFJ traits listed on the the16types.info profile section. (Honestly, it's the only type I've seriously considered aside from ENFP and ENTP...) Victor Hugo, the ESFJ's exemplar, is one of my personal heroes. Frankly, I'd love to be an ESFJ!
Though I identify with the profile as a whole, I don't recognize myself in its specific components. For example--as I understand it, an 'S' type does not live mostly in the future, and express strong interest in the new and 'unusual.' (If I'm wrong, please correct me.) Also, a 'J' type isn't always late, inconsistent, (despite efforts to the contrary,) and messy.
Perhaps I'm a "failed" ESFJ, masquerading as an ENTP.
Steve, I appreciate your comments. To me, they did not come across as self-promotional.
Thanks again,
-Justin.
Sorry I just noticed this post.
Upbringing has a lot to do with ones' outer traits. To find your rea type you have to look reallllllly deep within yourself. I took me a year to find my actual type, to this date I still test as INFP.
Your are way too polite to be Ne in my opinion, and ESFJ seems to me quite reasonable, but really you have to find for yourself ultimately.
Do you have any sample writing you have done?
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Ne aren't polite?
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Sorry
Ne aren't polite?
I didn't mean that they impolite, but that most Ne people I know jump from topic to topic and don't answer everything very carefully.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
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