Sociotypograph - determine your type by selecting 3-4 Reinin traits

[anndelise]

@Absurd
ftr, I wasn't questioning hkkmr's self-typing. I was just trying to point out how the Declaring/Asking dichotomy doesn't really make sense for the NeTi/NeFi types. The supposed Asking type does more monologues and debates than asking questions. While the supposed Declaring type supposedly grasps what's going on in people's minds and relationships, but without bothering to ask them any questions. Neither makes sense to me.

For myself, I see myself doing a mix of both. On the forum though is when I definitely do more declaring than asking. I didn,t start out that way when I first joined. But noone would answer my questions, forcing me into unfamiliar territory. Back then, the only way I could get people to talk about the things I wanted to know about was if I made some kind of assertion...and wait for their responses. Worse, it had to be as clearly written out as I could get it. Argh!

I am much more comfortable asking about and sharing stories of experiences.
Though, I guess I can see that maybe Declaring for "The Psychologist" came from the idea of sharing/expressing insights about what's going on in a person's psyche/relationships. But still...how could they gain insight if they didn't ask the people questions??

Argh...am still not a fan of combining reinin with model a.

Lol, this stuff is going to drive me crazy! I think I will take a break.
Maybe I'll go buy one of your books, Absurd.

[Absurd]

ftr, I wasn't questioning hkkmr's self-typing. I was just trying to point out how the Declaring/Asking dichotomy doesn't really make sense for the NeTi/NeFi types. The supposed Asking type does more monologues and debates than asking questions. While the supposed Declaring type supposedly grasps what's going on in people's minds and relationships, but without bothering to ask them any questions. Neither makes sense to me.

You confused constructivist with emotivist, at least that's what it looks to me. Not, asking/declaring.

Maybe I'll go buy one of your books, Absurd.

They come with a key.

Anyhow, wait for this LII guy to chime in.

[thePirate]

I'm thinking that it's perhaps best to use Reinin's traits as a separate personality theory than as being descriptive of socionics functions/elements. Or as a subtype system.

For example, very few if any people doubt hkkmr's self-typing of NeTi. Yet it's blatantly obvious when watching hkkmr in forum posts and forum chatbox that he is a Declaring type. He rarely, if ever, asks questions unrelated to the functioning of the website, and even then it's usually in the form of a statement of some kind. Instead he goes off on long monologues, often ignoring the input/ideas of others. According to Reinin, this is not an NeTi trait.

Yet, it's also supposed to be the trait of the socion's "Psychologist". The type that's supposed to be aimed at grasping people's problems and interests! The one that likes to delve into people's minds and see things from a variety of viewpoints. How is monologuing and not asking questions supposed to help with that?? I can understand it when it's in say...written form mode, such as forum posts, or in "teacher" mode, but not when actually interacting real time with people.

So yeah, I wouldn't trust Reinin's dichotomies to accurately give a socionics type. I'd see it more as it's own typing system...or as flavoring.

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Declaring

Declaring means that when you ask questions, it will sound more like statements and that you would rather 'say what you have to say' and then let the other person talk (rather than being 'interrupted' by questions). It doesn't mean you are not going to ask questions(what an absurd notion). Ignoring the inputs/ideas of others is NTR, furthermore I don't think this is an all encompassing/fair evaluation of HK. The way you interpret Hk seems to have to do with some weird blending you have done with Constructivist/Emotivist and Asking/Declaring.

@Absurd
ftr, I wasn't questioning hkkmr's self-typing. I was just trying to point out how the Declaring/Asking dichotomy doesn't really make sense for the NeTi/NeFi types. The supposed Asking type does more monologues and debates than asking questions. While the supposed Declaring type supposedly grasps what's going on in people's minds and relationships, but without bothering to ask them any questions. Neither makes sense to me.

For myself, I see myself doing a mix of both. On the forum though is when I definitely do more declaring than asking. I didn,t start out that way when I first joined. But noone would answer my questions, forcing me into unfamiliar territory. Back then, the only way I could get people to talk about the things I wanted to know about was if I made some kind of assertion...and wait for their responses. Worse, it had to be as clearly written out as I could get it. Argh!

I am much more comfortable asking about and sharing stories of experiences.
Though, I guess I can see that maybe Declaring for "The Psychologist" came from the idea of sharing/expressing insights about what's going on in a person's psyche/relationships. But still...how could they gain insight if they didn't ask the people questions??

Argh...am still not a fan of combining reinin with model a.

Lol, this stuff is going to drive me crazy! I think I will take a break.
Maybe I'll go buy one of your books, Absurd.

Declaring is prone to monologues, Asking to dialogue. Before you deem the dichotomies as incompatible with Model A, it might help if you understood them a little better first. Reading the name alone and a short description isn't enough to get a grasp of what they entail, its will mislead you to go about it that way. Also, a better way to look at these dichotomies is 'consistent outlooks overtime' or else isolated scenarios (like the one you just used about your time on the forums) will lead you to an inaccurate conclusion of how they fit with a particular individual. IME Reinin's traits generally fit the type, although some dichotomies are much better and less inherently ambiguous than others