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Thread: I love this chart

  1. #41
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    You're grasping at straws Maritsa, Abbie did a pretty good job demonstrating her leading several times.
    No she did not.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
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    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  2. #42
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miso Soup View Post
    I see! I can definitely think of a couple instances where XIIs I know have done that exact thing. In fact, it's a behavior I associate so strongly with them, I can even realize my mistakes by having imaginary conversations with them in my head.
    Really? I've never tried that; I should, maybe imagination is the key to unlocking the subconscious stream. Interesting idea.

    maybe it will work well
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    No she did not.
    That's because any answer she gives will not satisfy you as her being dominant because your dead set on her being SEE.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    That's because any answer she gives will not satisfy you as her being dominant because your dead set on her being SEE.
    Ahhh....I would love to go through this from the beginning and I'm only giving one explanation and will cease from that. Whether you will use that to help you see the general picture or not is your problem and not my own.

    Abbie looks at the chart, compares her life rhythm to the chart and based on an immediate sensory reaction without due consideration for what it may be considered for Te, which is HOW THE CHART MAY BE APPLIED EXTERNALLY, she makes a hard and fast rule, using her weak Ti, "it's wrong, if it's wrong it's bad." Things within a diagram can be changed to work well, or better in application of external dynamics of things, but the concept (the or the idea) of the chart may remain quite in tact as a valid universal idea; she values Se because she stops at Se, immediate sense perception "it works well for me so it's good; doesn't work well for me so it's bad." We already know that Carl Jung, having typed himself as LII made up universal concepts such as the collective subconscious and that Ti is involved in thought of these concepts in general fashions rather than hard and fast rules.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  5. #45
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Maritsa, if you think that chart has potential, change it yourself and get back to me. As it is, it doesn't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  6. #46
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Maritsa, if you think that chart has potential, change it yourself and get back to me. As it is, it doesn't work.
    Whether it does or not is not the real concern. The real concern isn't the exact reality of it's performance but of how one can use it to show the external activity of things; like a guide.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  7. #47
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    it's performance
    I'm sorry, but I just can't pay attention to sentences that do that to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Ahhh....I would love to go through this from the beginning and I'm only giving one explanation and will cease from that. Whether you will use that to help you see the general picture or not is your problem and not my own.

    Abbie looks at the chart, compares her life rhythm to the chart and based on an immediate sensory reaction without due consideration for what it may be considered for Te, which is HOW THE CHART MAY BE APPLIED EXTERNALLY, she makes a hard and fast rule, using her weak Ti, "it's wrong, if it's wrong it's bad." Things within a diagram can be changed to work well, or better in application of external dynamics of things, but the concept (the or the idea) of the chart may remain quite in tact as a valid universal idea; she values Se because she stops at Se, immediate sense perception "it works well for me so it's good; doesn't work well for me so it's bad." We already know that Carl Jung, having typed himself as LII made up universal concepts such as the collective subconscious and that Ti is involved in thought of these concepts in general fashions rather than hard and fast rules.
    I don't doubt that you gave this a lot of thought Maritsa because I'm sure you have, but I think what you just said here is an excellent example of confirmation bias: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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  9. #49
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I'm sorry, but I just can't pay attention to sentences that do that to me.
    I wouldn't expect you to, because after all I'm only using rational thought in trying to explain you something which I hope then you will use to come to an understanding of something, but instead, you get upset because I will not yield to your will or how you want things to go, being very controlling you are and not pay attention to me.

    Good luck and I'm sorry to have made you upset and not bent to your will. I can only follow logic.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  10. #50
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    This is an excellent example of confirmation bias: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
    So I prefer information that confirms my beliefs? Humm...not what do you suppose an introverted feeling and thinking do, I wonder?

    They seek out information which confirm their beliefs because they need those things. You've stumbled on something very socionically correct. Congratulations.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    So I prefer information that confirms my beliefs? Humm...not what do you suppose an introverted feeling and thinking do, I wonder?

    They seek out information which confirm their beliefs because they need those things. You've stumbled on something very socionically correct. Congratulations.
    Thanks, lol.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Good luck and I'm sorry to have made you upset and not bent to your will. I can only follow logic.
    Maritsa, I'm obsessed with apostrophes! It makes it very difficult to pay attention to anything with a misplaced apostrophe. It's nothing personal.
    I'm a very visual person. In 9th grade, I had to scribble on my math test with colored pencils so I could read it. Otherwise I might as well have been staring at a zebra. It was just black and white markings.
    I'm usually a very good reader. Sometimes it just shuts off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Maritsa, I'm obsessed with apostrophes! It makes it very difficult to pay attention to anything with a misplaced apostrophe. It's nothing personal.
    I'm a very visual person. In 9th grade, I had to scribble on my math test with colored pencils so I could read it. Otherwise I might as well have been staring at a zebra. It was just black and white markings.
    I'm usually a very good reader. Sometimes it just shuts off.

    You don't say!
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You don't say!
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  15. #55
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    I like this chart as well.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Primarily because people sleep at different times. It doesn't fit.
    1's lol. It's just a chart. It never claims to be exacting. It only represents patterns of relativity to each part, unless, of course, youre adhering to unrealistic expectations.

  17. #57
    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    But this is one way in which you devalue and value ; you're looking at something specific that doesn't fit into that chart, while the chart explains things in a general or "rough" explanation, hence those who value are likely to find it interesting; they can take a chart like this and apply it to a general not specific cases.
    you will be pleased to note that I look for exceptions to the "rule" all the fucking time

    actually, I'm sure you won't note it

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You like the object because of how well it performs?
    I'm not going down that path. I'll be on another trail.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    People sleeping at different times doesn't mean those things arent happening in the background. People also exercise at different times, not necessarily when muscle strength and efficiency are peak. Times that people do these things do depend heavily on artificially institute constraints based on work times, etc. It's entirely possible that people are injuring themselves and becoming unhealthy by forcing their bodies to do certain things that the circadian biological clock isn't totally supportive of. Like working night shifts, for example.
    Ok now that i've had a full nights sleep... I do want to add that i'm sure there is some degree of individual variation to the chart. I think the chart is meant as sort of an example.

    I still stand by what i said above, though.. i do think it's scary the way society often forces us to work against these natural patterns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    So I prefer information that confirms my beliefs? Humm...not what do you suppose an introverted feeling and thinking do, I wonder?

    They seek out information which confirm their beliefs because they need those things. You've stumbled on something very socionically correct. Congratulations.
    Just because someone is EII doesn't mean they're going to endlessly subject things to confirmation bias. My boss is EII... he's a research scientist... if he constantly does work containing confirmation bias, he wouldn't be allowed to do this kind of work. On the contrary, he's an excellent scientist and has a flourishing career.

    Confirmation bias is the sort of thing anyone can mistakenly do... and it's a sort of thing one learns to be careful not to do. Not socionic at all, much less type related.
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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Ok now that i've had a full nights sleep... I do want to add that i'm sure there is some degree of individual variation to the chart. I think the chart is meant as sort of an example.

    I still stand by what i said above, though.. i do think it's scary the way society often forces us to work against these natural patterns.
    I seriously hate daylight savings. It doesnt fit our society anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I still stand by what i said above, though.. i do think it's scary the way society often forces us to work against these natural patterns.
    yeah I agree. Though I'm sure it's far from natural to wake up before the noon. Night shifts would be ideal for me if I had a job.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
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    The only thing I have to add to this thread is that the chart from the original poster needs a Chicken Curry exception... where the bowel movement suppression at 22:30 does not occur.

    That is all.

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    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    9:00am - hardest boner
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Yup, seems accurate.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I tested this out on myself and yes I do poop at 8:30;
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Maritsa you actually manage to crack me up sometimes. It's amazing.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  29. #69
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    I've run into this chart off and on. I'm not particularly a fan of it.
    For starters, I'm most definitely a morning person. I naturally wake up with the sun (which of course changes according to season). I've got the most physical energy in the morning, and prefer to do the vast majority of my physical activites early.

    By the time I'm about ready to call it a day (regarding physical activites), then it's around 10:30am-1pm..and time for brunch. Then I'll relax for a bit, veg out some.

    Around 1-2pm I feel pleasantly physically tired, but my mental faculties kick in...(except for the hottest part of summer...where the mental activity kicks in as things start cooling down some). At this time I'll do my studies or other mental work.

    In longer days, I will eat a light meal before 6ish. In shorter days (winter) I only eat the one meal that was earlier.

    When the weather has cooled significantly...usually as sun is setting, then I will either do some minor physical labor, or go for an extended walk. (if my back is hurting, then I'm stuck on forums/books ).

    If we leave the lights off, the melatonin will start kicking in, and sleep will come sooner. If lights are on or I'm on computer, then melatonin doesn,t have a chance to kick in...dry eyes is what will finally prompt me to call it a night. Unfortunately, that might not happen until 1am. And since I still naturally wake up with the sun, i'm shot for that next day.


    According to this chart, it's got people doing physical labor at the hottest time of the day. The time when local vegetation has already been eaten by local herbivores, and the time when predator animals are chillaxin. It places people at risk of heat stroke if they following its physical activity timing. It ignores how light (sun) influences melatonin production and burnout, and how that light timing changes throughout the year. (Though, I HAVE read where one can adjust the timings...expanding them to suit longer days and shortening them to suit winter times. So if this expansion/contraction if time is being included, then my last concern there is null.)


    I am willing to acknowledge that I might be missing something regarding this chart.
    And I recognize that it includes a disclaimer:
    Overview of biological circadian clock in humans.
    Biological clock affects the daily rhythm of many physiological processes. This diagram depicts the circadian patterns typical of someone who rises early in morning, eats lunch around noon, and sleeps at night (10 p.m.). Although circadian rhythms tend to be synchronized with cycles of light and dark, other factors - such as ambient temperature, meal times, napping schedule and duration, stress and exercise - can influence the timing as well.
    Perhaps @DirectorAbbie might find her concerns in the disclaimer.


    I'm not particularly keen on it being supposedly applicable to all humans. Imo, different cultures from different locales might have differing timings for physical and mental activity than this chart gives. The schedule for a tropical islander is likely to differ significantly than the schedule for an icelander. Both are likely to differ from a desert dweller, and from a nomad.


    But if it helps you, Jadae...if you find it useful, then yay!! Go for it.
    i won't be following it, myself. (If I don't get the physical work done in the morning...I won't feel energetic enough to do it later in the day...which means it won't get done.)
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  30. #70
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Maritsa you actually manage to crack me up sometimes. It's amazing.
    You gotta test things sometimes, you know. You can't remain a mechanical bot of someone else. "Sit"...."Why?"..."Cuz I said so"...."You don't provide an explanation and one which I can logically apply, I'm not going for it"...."but you love me, don't you?"...."how much did the ring cost?"...."I got it for plenty"...."of what?"..."yuan/quai"..."pfff"
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  31. #71
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    I totally get what you're saying...



    not. Things are back to normal.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Sorry, my dear; you're not my dual

    You're right, she's not; though, an LIE may very well work for you.

  33. #73
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerorobyn View Post

    You're right, she's not; though, an LIE may very well work for you.
    Now that I think of it, ESI would make sense for her.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Now that I think of it, ESI would make sense for her.
    She does a decent job with her Ti Role. Her inability to acknowledge that she could possibly be wrong about some peoples' types, amongst other things, is a likely indication of Se > Ne.

  35. #75
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerorobyn View Post
    She does a decent job with her Ti Role. Her inability to acknowledge that she could possibly be wrong about some peoples' types, amongst other things, is a likely indication of Se > Ne.
    But would an ESI be that careless at spelling and math?

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  36. #76
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    But would an ESI be that careless at spelling and math?
    Then, she is obviously an ESE.

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