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    Default a weird question

    ok, so basically I'd like to ask something weird

    If I think back to my childhood (I have very good autobiographical memory), I just can't see as much Ne as Se. I was an uncontrollable child, if I wanted something, I would get it, and I was pretty material; though at the same time somehow the world didn't totally make sense (that may have been Ti wondering though). Anyway, I wasn't looking at implicit possibilities like I do now. I just took things for granted and again, if I wanted something from someone I kept asking, and asking until they managed to stop me, and didn't get very upset about refusal either. Actually my mother could never stop me, she just resigned to doing everything I asked her to do. In games all I would think of was winning, just because, no reason beyond that. I was best in school too... I was very motivated to be best in everything. I even asked myself why it matters so much and I didn't know the answer beyond "because" and no, it wasn't my parents telling me to be good at school, because nobody could tell me anyway what to do. All in all, the first thing people would tell me about how I was: "forceful". (second trait they'd list was "helpful")

    Now, I was like this until age 13. Then I somehow started to realize that maybe I needed to uh, in socionics terms, develop some Fe/Fi and pay more attention to people. I wasn't very successful at that, so I just forced myself to be inactive. Well sometimes I would still create conflicts, but tried hard not to. A few years later I read some really interesting book (from the socionics viewpoint this book was something like Ni), and from then on the next couple of years I started to become very abstracted, theorizing about the world, intangible stuff, and eventually became disconnected from the tangible world. I remember myself being upset about how I could somehow not "access" or handle tangible things anymore. No I wasn't going mad. I guess over a couple more years I got some of that ability back but I just could never be like I used to be anymore. I also noticed that I could not focus on winning stuff as much anymore, I would just get stressed instead, thinking various ways I could fail and that would make me somewhat disinterested, though I still have quite some of this desire to win in things against people...just less confident than I used to be. But overall I'm still very confident in myself.

    So, when I started playing with theories after that book stuff, at the same time I got used to seeing things beyond the surface where I always wanted to look anyway. No longer "as is". I guess I can still do the "as is" stuff in a few areas in life, but most often I'm just very abstract and generalized and I enjoy this. I also got more accepting of how people are or how they could be, not categorizing/looking down on some of them (ok, maybe I sometimes still do but I then try to forget about it...I like the idea of being equal). What I don't enjoy is that I definitely got clumsier and pretty insecure about how to handle physical objects/tasks etc. etc. I actually need external help in these things now. But eh, I can live with that. Oh and another thing I don't enjoy... I still naturally ask people to do this or that, but if I see from their reaction that they didn't like this, I'll get unsure about if I really want it still, then I get uncomfortable and forget about it - could be also better Fe/Fi, maybe.

    Then there is the relationships theory in socionics, I should be "infantile", but I'm not. A lot of the things from "aggressor" and "victim" fit instead. I'm undecided which one is closer to me but probably aggressor because I require devotion and hate it if I don't get it. Yet I can get unsure like victim.

    Eh, so I'm pretty sure I'm ILE, but I just don't see myself as a typical ILE when I was younger. Maybe I'm wrong and ILE's all start out this way? But this almost sounds like to me that my leading and role functions switched over slowly. If I go by the socionics definition of Se, which should be role function for me, it definitely got weaker as I got older... shouldn't the role function go the opposite direction instead, that is, get somewhat stronger, more consistent? What's your opinion about that possibility in terms of the current socionics theory? Actually, maybe it's not the Ne stuff, but Ni suggestive? The theory says, suggestive can't be supplied to yourself on your own, though.

    ps: The only thing for sure is I was always a Ti/Fe valuer, as a child too.

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    its because socionics isnt real. you can make up a theoretical explanation if you want but it won't be any truer than anything anybody else makes up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    its because socionics isnt real. you can make up a theoretical explanation if you want but it won't be any truer than anything anybody else makes up.
    I know that, what I want to know is what the current theory says about this possibility.

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    nothing, "officially," afaik.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    nothing, "officially," afaik.
    and unofficially?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    and unofficially?
    shrug, thats where making stuff up comes in. i'm not interested in doing that. sorry for farting in your thread lol bye

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    its because socionics isnt real. you can make up a theoretical explanation if you want but it won't be any truer than anything anybody else makes up.
    Actually the whole point of making up explanations is to get more precision and accuracy. I would say if someone made a better theoretical explanation for all this, it would be a fairly large advancement.

    Is socionics's model more accurate then MBTI? Most of the socionics people here do believe that in application even if they will say things like "socionics isn't any more true then X". If one uses socionics above MBTI, one presumes that socionics is more accurate vs MBTI, and to say other wise is eithera lie or self-delusion.

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    i kinda prefer the function descriptions found on mbti sites but i can't speak for anyone else.

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    Hello, I'm ILE-Ti too with lots of apparent Se (most people here still type me SeTi) and I've been wondering the same.

    Do you have anyone close to you with strong Se?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Hello, I'm ILE-Ti too with lots of apparent Se (most people here still type me SeTi) and I've been wondering the same.

    Do you have anyone close to you with strong Se?
    I once dated someone who may have been SEE, definitely strong Se-leading and I remember it very well. We were just fine together (until I got bored of him). why do you ask though?

    I saw your posts before btw , what's Se in your behaviour like in real life?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    I once dated someone who may have been SEE, definitely strong Se-leading and I remember it very well. We were just fine together (until I got bored of him). why do you ask though?
    I thought that you might have kinda "learned" it from someone. My mother is ESI-Se and my first girlfriend was ESI-Se too.

    Also, I have an extensive mental disorder history and as most models of explanation such as Socionics are based on "how it normally happens", all kinds of psychological deviations would easily provide visible imperfections in the model. How about your mentality?
    Last edited by Aquagraph; 04-18-2012 at 04:13 PM.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    You seem alpha irrational to me. Perhaps reconsider.
    "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.".

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobVillain View Post
    You seem alpha irrational to me. Perhaps reconsider.
    I'm only talking about younger years here, now I do have some alpha values now, yeah. I consider myself ILE in the system but atypical ILE.

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    i brought smilingeyes up in chat and i'll bring him up again here for @Aquagraph to reference. the relevant threads are in the chat archive but i don't feel like digging them up.

    he was into type change and according to him you could move from SLE to ILE and he has this whole theory built around it. it could probably apply if you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I thought that you might have kinda "learned" it from someone. My mother is ESI-Se and my first girlfriend was ESI-Se too.

    Also, I have an extensive mental disorder history and as most models of explanation such as Socionics are based on "how it normally happens", all kinds of psychological deviations would easily provide visible imperfections in the model. How about your mentality?
    no, I didn't learn it from him haha. Actually I liked the Se stuff in him, it felt very natural to just go and do things without contemplating. edit: one thing though... he displayed very typical aggressor behaviour and I just went with it fine, but probably because I wanted the same things anyway.

    ESI-Se...did they ever feel like conflictors to you? and how about now, do they feel like that to you?

    my mentality was always fine. so no, it's not explained by that.

    I read somewhere about dualization, that book I mentioned definitely inspired me...something like that. until reading that book, I was pretty much just Se by definition.

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    You write a lot, why did you write so much...

    I want pix, also what is your question...

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    ambi: Your problems aren't intellectual they are social. They have nothing to do with you, but everything in how you are interacting with others. People emotionally view you at your core as a person who is too selfish in an annoying, babyish way. Yes, everybody is selfish and it's not really a bad thing, it just hinders your social growth. Which hinders your own personal growth because socialization is the root core of everything. I can see people getting angry and fed up with you and might do something annoying to you as a way for you to get under your skin emotionally because you just may not 'get it.'

    Remember childe, that when you give something up - it doesn't necessarily mean that you lose it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    ambi: Your problems aren't intellectual they are social. They have nothing to do with you, but everything in how you are interacting with others. People emotionally view you at your core as a person who is too selfish in an annoying, babyish way. Yes, everybody is selfish and it's not really a bad thing, it just hinders your social growth. Which hinders your own personal growth because socialization is the root core of everything. I can see people getting angry and fed up with you and might do something annoying to you as a way for you to get under your skin emotionally because you just may not 'get it.'

    Remember childe, that when you give something up - it doesn't necessarily mean that you lose it.
    Thanks for your opinion, though it was a bit surprising offered unsolicited, I hope you weren't annoyed by me personally (I'm not aware of this), but in case you were, sorry for it. I perfectly know that I have social issues. That's further complicated by another issue I have had in my whole life, that I will not mention here, but it is not the cause, it just makes it worse. I've been working on resolving them. It's rather hard though. (In socionics the Fi-PoLR concept is what I really found interesting.) What I find funny though is that people's perception of me highly varies. One person I talk to at times (I'm not sure about his sociotype, EII or IEI) keeps stating that I'm "peace" itself as we never run into a conflict and especially because I try hard to be the mediator for conflicts between other people in our group - I feel responsible because I've been one of the people organizing it and also when adding to other people's debates I often end up with a very neutral and open viewpoint, trying to reconcile others'. Another person in the group keeps getting annoyed at how he temporarily perceives me insensitive, impatient and arrogant even though I have no bad intentions towards anyone at all. He says I keep switching between two states, one very benevolent and helpful and accepting of everyone and the other one the seemingly insensitive state where I will enter conflicts too easily without even thinking, often just because someone said something illogical and I try to correct it. Yet another person in this same group have already got into conflicts with everyone else at least once, except me, we just get on pretty well. And then there's a few people that I just click with in an instant and we talk forever and have loads of fun and no conflicts ever or if there's any then it's easy to resolve. Then there was another person that basically removed me from his group very forcefully without even explaining why. I could go on and on. So um... I wouldn't go by one single opinion for sure. I guess some of this could be partially predicted by the interactions theory in socionics. E.g. I usually don't have conflicts with SLE's, ILE's, some SEE's, and a few other Se, Fe and NF types are pretty good too.

    What you said about not losing, I made a decision a very long time ago, as an adolescent, that due to the original social issues I should just suppress myself to avoid conflicts and thus perhaps find my place in society and that may have made my leading function weaken to the point of me looking like ILE or even LII to many people and even to myself at times (but I'm not ILE/LII). But it still comes out at times and that's when the conflicts happen. And anyway even ILE has Fi-PoLR so that doesn't help much either. In retrospect, the suppression idea wasn't good at all, but I didn't have a better one back then, I was too young.

    Anyway, I don't want to bother anyone here anymore, I originally was all about just having a bit of fun here throwing ideas around but I know that many people just view it as chaos. Plus I managed to turn it all into talking about myself too much. I'm not even used to talking about myself this lot. I usually don't like to talk about myself but it's easier to do this anonymously. Sorry if I offended anyone.

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    ILE

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    So, what's the verdict?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    So, what's the verdict?
    SLE with partially repressed Se.

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    I must add another thing... really not all the blame should be on me... here's one example: I was on an online chat group, chatting to people happily, then some girl (IEE?) and a guy (LII?) like jumped at me as to why the hell I'm using "" smileys. No, really, is that an offensive smiley? Anyway I tried to conform and didn't use this smiley afterwards even though I love using it, but a few days later another SLE girl came on the chat, we happily started talking about various things, it was really enjoyable (we NEVER have any conflicts). We talked in the public, not private chat. About one or two hours later the LII(?) guy suddenly showed up and instantly removed me from the whole group without any explanation beyond that what was going on that evening was just too much talk or something. Well, nevermind, but I really don't think I'm always so much at fault.

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    lol that's exactly what I was saying. Of course it's not just YOU that's at fault. In a social situation it takes two to tango, we're all in this together etc. Both people are doing things wrong and human beings correct and chastise each other. I didn't want you to blame yourself or anything.

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    I don't know how long you've been studying socionics, but take more time learning the theory and stop putting focus on typing yourself at this point. Especially since it comes off that you're basing your understanding from the assumptions you've made in your MBTI stage which is more wasteful than useful. /unsolicited advice

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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie View Post
    I don't know how long you've been studying socionics, but take more time learning the theory and stop putting focus on typing yourself at this point. Especially since it comes off that you're basing your understanding from the assumptions you've made in your MBTI stage which is more wasteful than useful. /unsolicited advice
    I forgot MBTI long ago. I actually have to make sure I don't end up contaminating MBTI concepts with socionics concepts when someone asks me about MBTI.

    I played with MBTI for a month last summer. I've been studying socionics on and off since then.

    why is it so hard to believe that one can be an atypical manifestation of a type due to life circumstances?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambivalent existence View Post
    why is it so hard to believe that one can be an atypical manifestation of a type due to life circumstances?
    Sounds like you don't have control over your life and I bet there are few people who have had worse on this forum not having a bigger problem typing oneself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Sounds like you don't have control over your life and I bet there are few people who have had worse on this forum not having a bigger problem typing oneself.
    my life has all been more hardship than most people's in an objectively measurable way, but that's fine by me. the social thing is where I don't have control. in everything else I'm very successful.

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