I feel ambivalent

[ambivalent existence]

Going by that wall of text, whoever is going to type you me quadra is completely bonkers.

sorry, what do you mean exactly?

[Absurd]

yeah, ok.

Try gamma or alpha and no, I don't mean this a possibility. Don't know you and couldn't read past third(?) paragraph. Works.

sorry, what do you mean exactly?

Not me or I'm in the wrong quadra.

[Park]

sorry, what do you mean exactly?

He wants to imply that Deltas are less verbally expressive, but rather short and to the point in their manner of speech. Therefore, whoever types you a Delta type (SLI, EII, IEE, or LSE) is wrong/ignorant.

[ambivalent existence]

Try gamma or alpha and no, I don't mean this a possibility. Don't know you and couldn't read past third(?) paragraph. Works.

gamma: The Reinin traits that distinguish Gamma from other quadras are "decisive," "serious," and "democratic." --- democratic, ya. sometimes serious, sometimes decisive.

alpha: Reinin characterizes this quadra as Judicious, Merry, and Democratic. --- democratic again. sometimes merry, sometimes judicious.

more gamma:

Gammas tend to perceive Alpha types as creative, generally well-meaning, and friendly and pleasant people, especially as a group, as a first impression. Later, Gammas tend to see Alphas as lacking ambition in the longer term, overly concerned with sensorial pleasure and comfort, and overly demanding of, and sensitive to, external emotional expression without making much effort to focus on deeper feelings involved.

---> yup, especially about overly concerned with sensory pleasure and no focus on deeper feelings.

Alphas tend to regard Gamma types warily, as stand-offish and emotionally cold or even hostile, especially in work situations, as well as inclined to play favorites with those they know better, or are attracted to (for whatever reason, be it sexually or for power and gain.) Alphas tend to see Gamma types as too harsh in their words and unimaginative, lacking future perspective, and even disingenuous, as well as having a mean streak of unforgivingness and vindictiveness.

---> yup, especially about the seeming cold and mean streak.


ok, this also makes me ILE, because: my negative feelings/reaction to the latter are stronger. the first one, it's just kind of indifferent, except for the no focus on deeper feelings.

also, when I say Si is indifferent, a low stress environment actually is preferable for me, so that would be seen as Si valuing. beyond that, not much, but then, my life usually doesn't involve a lot of stress.

[ambivalent existence]

He wants to imply that Deltas are less verbally expressive, but rather short and to the point in their manner of speech. Therefore, whoever types you a Delta type (SLI, EII, IEE, or LSE) is wrong/ignorant.

alright, my native language isn't english, and got stuck on the "me" part. :S

yeah, I don't think/recall anyone here typed me delta, only alpha and gamma, so that's ok

[Absurd]

gamma: The Reinin traits that distinguish Gamma from other quadras are "decisive," "serious," and "democratic." --- democratic, ya. sometimes serious, sometimes decisive[...]

Thanks Aleksei, Ashton, labcoat, Trevor, FDG, and Saberstorm.

[Jarno]

haha... would you read a shorter version, questionnaire, or you posted that out of boredom? pics are not an option, I don't trust VI.


edit: ...For those with short attention spans:


1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

Can't decide what function is strong enough to be leading function.

everybody has a problem noticing what their strong function is, since it's to ordinary.

If you try to type yourself by looking which strong function you have, you'll usually don't succeed.

[ambivalent existence]

everybody has a problem noticing what their strong function is, since it's to ordinary.

If you try to type yourself by looking which strong function you have, you'll usually don't succeed.

yeah, I get what you mean.. but in my case it's also something about how none of the 8 are "totally" leading function, i.e. I will often prefer something else over the function. that is, Ti: too "rigid", Ne: too scattered, Te: too practical, and the rest are definitely not strong enough to be leading

anyway I'm ok with my typing.

I prefer direct expression as well, but usually once someone's affinities (or antipathies) towards me are explicitly communicated and established, then from that point I'll tend to operate on the assumption that these are constant and true unless I sense potential reason to suspect otherwise—analogous to something like a negative feedback loop.

I'm not like you, not enough if it's communicated once via direct emotional expression. I know that we are supposed to be in a relationship but the direct expression has to be kept up for me to really "know". that actually makes me way too suspicious of close relationships by default :/

Nothing really jumped out to me as Te in your posts, which is another part of why I figured you as a probable ILE. The cadence in your writing and some of the wording choice didn't come across as Te or Dynamic.

good to know. somewhere else once I was typed LIE because of how "Te" style my post seemed to be. humm.. (I do know my writing style can change at times, but whatever.)

IMO you're Ti-ILE, in which case Ne would feature less saliently in your typical mode of interaction.

yeah, I read the ILE subtype descriptions and Ti-ILE really jumped out at me as a quite close-ish description of me. I read about other types and subtypes too, but only Ti-ILE had this impression on me. so yeah, your guess is probably right.

Same here. Also because I hate repetition. And if I have to be "productive", I'd rather leverage the task so I can do it with minimal possible effort. Or at least stimulate myself on the side thinking up creative ways to do it better.

I guess this is one thing we share then. though, I don't really spend time thinking up ways how to do it better, I'll just start doing it and during the activity I may devise better ways, not really via direct thinking, just somehow the idea of how to do it better comes to me at times. I can actually tolerate repetition for a long time, if I really want to achieve something.

E7s will have some E5-ish qualities on account of a shared (dis)integration path.

yep, that makes sense, though the one funny thing is that I was always like this from early childhood.

[Absurd]

Got a bit smacked yesterday, so no offence to any one who got offended. A guy I know got a new member in his family and I was there to celebrate it.

[ambivalent existence]

Got a bit smacked yesterday, so no offence to any one who got offended. A guy I know got a new member in his family and I was there to celebrate it.

heh, I'm not sure what your last post was about, I didn't manage to interpret it, so no worries =P

[Absurd]

heh, I'm not sure what your last post was about, I didn't manage to interpret it, so no worries =P

Ah yes, that's why I don't read mine when I'm under the influence after. Don't know what they mean as well.

[redbaron]

Hey, I just wanna say that, *for me*, in this case, VI was a big help in thinking about what type ambivalent might be. It doesn't always help, even with people I know in person or whatever but sometimes it can be a piece of the puzzle.

[ambivalent existence]

Hey, I just wanna say that, *for me*, in this case, VI was a big help in thinking about what type ambivalent might be. It doesn't always help, even with people I know in person or whatever but sometimes it can be a piece of the puzzle.

mm, interesting would you be able to describe what about my face is so ILE? (especially as others guessed SEI from it LOL)

[redbaron]

mm, interesting would you be able to describe what about my face is so ILE? (especially as others guessed SEI from it LOL)

Only that the look on your face, your mouth, eyes, and even your facial structure itself, distinctly reminded me of two other ILEs I know. That, combined with what you were saying, helped me. You do clearly value Si, and that sense of valuing a function can be confused with being strong in it. For example, I know an SLE who can be *very* over the top with his emotional expressions. He likes that sort of thing and has learned to create it himself. For a second, I considered EIE for him because of this. But then meeting him in person, the Se stood out so much more and everything fell into place for SLE.

[mu4]

edit: Probably need more observation

[JWC3]

Could you post a video about how awesome you are and why you think that?

That would help me, and no I'm not making a sarcastic comment about your personality.

[ambivalent existence]

Only that the look on your face, your mouth, eyes, and even your facial structure itself, distinctly reminded me of two other ILEs I know. That, combined with what you were saying, helped me. You do clearly value Si, and that sense of valuing a function can be confused with being strong in it. For example, I know an SLE who can be *very* over the top with his emotional expressions. He likes that sort of thing and has learned to create it himself. For a second, I considered EIE for him because of this. But then meeting him in person, the Se stood out so much more and everything fell into place for SLE.

thanks. hum. my Si attitude is pretty ambivalent. I don't give much of a hoot about Si pleasures in general, but negative body states can affect me very much (and thus I will take care of the issue immediately) unless I'm working hard on something. when I said I needed help with Si, that's basically 1) sort the stupid little tasks like cooking food, because that's too tiring for me 2) I can be unsure about how to deal with an object, and stuff like that, I'm terribly clumsy and absent minded about the world at times.

how did Se stand out over Fe when you met this person? some example perhaps?

[ambivalent existence]

ILE(probably) or IEE(maybe)

I am not sure what sub type you are.

You seem to have a hard time getting to the point, this is something I see in IEE's, but maybe it's just a female/subtype thing.

Just saw pics, you got a kinda of a slight crooked smile I see in quite a few ILEs/IEEs.

yeah, I have a hard time describing stuff concisely because I tend to go off on many tangents while writing. then I realize that and try to drop the details and just get to the point but I don't manage that very well, eh. my thinking is rather like that in general, except that when thinking, I have enough time to finally get to a really concise conclusion. I just enjoy the road until there I guess... anyway, with these posts I don't have enough time for that.

crooked smile? hahaha. I didn't notice until I uploaded the photos. btw my partner (see my other thread on him) has an even more crooked smile

[ambivalent existence]

Could you post a video about how awesome you are and why you think that?

That would help me, and no I'm not making a sarcastic comment about your personality.

OK, maybe tomorrow I can organize that, um. how long would it have to be?

[Shazaam]

Just live your life. What is really important to you will snap you out of your ambivalency. All the sickness and disease and heartbreak of the world will have a purifying effect on you, and you will know whether you want to stand on the side of good or evil. How can you choose your own personal morals and values when you are not yet acquainted with the nuances of the world?

[ambivalent existence]

Just live your life. What is really important to you will snap you out of your ambivalency. All the sickness and disease and heartbreak of the world will have a purifying effect on you, and you will know whether you want to stand on the side of good or evil. How can you choose your own personal morals and values when you are not yet acquainted with the nuances of the world?

er what's this?

I don't really care about good or evil.

but yeah thanks for the advice, I'm ok with living my life

[JWC3]

OK, maybe tomorrow I can organize that, um. how long would it have to be?

Well, as long as you want it to be is fine. The why would idealy be more detailed but videos just make it easy to kinda 'ballpark' someones type.

[silke]

thanks for detailing.

I checked the link, and thought more about the temperaments, I feel like I could sometimes *appear* like IP, but I enjoy EP stuff as well.

My movements are not like IP for sure (I'll quote myself): they are always hurried, I'm impatient, like this, I start doing something I want, then if I have to wait a bit for it before I can go on with it, I will stay energized and MUST start doing something else, while waiting. If I can't switch to something else to fill in the time, I will be very restless and fidgeting. All that shows in my movements I think. Only thing that fits in IP for me is I can go with the flow. ...well at least at times when I'm just waiting for possibilities to grab.

If you had this in your description already then forgive my attention span - it doesn't last more than a few paragraphs. From your replies your tone reminds me a lot of a member here FoxOnStilts who self-types as Ne-ILE 7 to my knowledge. I would say that Ne subtype is a better fit from the way you quickly move from one topic to another as if you're trying to encompass everything, which indicates heavy Ne focus. It sounds like you're not ambivalent but rather undecided because there is just a lot of stuff coming into your perception all at once.

Can't decide what function is strong enough to be leading function.

Leading function can be difficult to pin down. There is this theory that assigns dimensionality to functions as leading-4, creative-3, mobilizing-2, suggestive-1 while it sets the dimensionality of consciousness to 3. Under this model, creative function would be the most consciously realized one, while leading function would be supraconscious - exceeding the conscious experience. From what I've seen this holds some truth to it and people typing themselves often have trouble discerning the identity of their dominant function.

[Shazaam]

Right, ambivalency stems from a lack of education and experience. It doesn't mean you are stupid though, as highly intelligent people fall victim to this horrid condition all the time.

I don't care about good or evil...

Er, what I meant was, what gets under your skin and motivates you? What rabbles you and what do you find important and meaningful? I'm sure there are things you aren't so ambivalent about.

[Beautiful sky]

Okay first, one of the reasons I suggested logical extrovert is because you talked about your energy and ease at initiating conversation, making acquaintances, etc, but that you didn't know how to close the distance and create the kind of relationships you'd like to have. Your thought process comes across as well-organized and emotional language is completely absent. The paragraph that began "in an existing community" I thought pointed towards Fe valuing/seeking. I very much identify with what you said there, which is usually a crappy way of typing, lol, so I'm not putting much weight on it.

squark, you could be awesome at this; reread your comments and think of some possibilities

[ambivalent existence]

If you had this in your description already then forgive my attention span - it doesn't last more than a few paragraphs. From your replies your tone reminds me a lot of a member here FoxOnStilts who self-types as Ne-ILE 7 to my knowledge. I would say that Ne subtype is a better fit from the way you quickly move from one topic to another as if you're trying to encompass everything, which indicates heavy Ne focus. It sounds like you're not ambivalent but rather undecided because there is just a lot of stuff coming into your perception all at once.


Leading function can be difficult to pin down. There is this theory that assigns dimensionality to functions as leading-4, creative-3, mobilizing-2, suggestive-1 while it sets the dimensionality of consciousness to 3. Under this model, creative function would be the most consciously realized one, while leading function would be supraconscious - exceeding the conscious experience. From what I've seen this holds some truth to it and people typing themselves often have trouble discerning the identity of their dominant function.

thanks for your input.

right, some things from Ne-ILE subtype do fit me well, but Ti-ILE kind of fits me more in actual behaviour and expectations. but ya, when I'm in the mood I probably look childish like Ne-ILE (or at least according to my understanding so far).

but you described very well my thinking style. the "ambivalent" thing in my nick doesn't really refer to my thinking btw, I just like that concept/idea hehe.

why I think it's more Ti though, is that I will limit the focus easily to one thing to explore it better, while analysing it from a Ti viewpoint as well. I'm just not as scattered, I totally can't tolerate it when I have 1000 ideas, because I will want to follow all of them through, so I just stop after it goes past a manageable intensity of Ne scatteredness. some extreme Ne leading types can even bother me at times when they get very scattered because I want to follow all of it in a thorough way, hate losing my focus.

and heh I like talking to FoxOnStilts, easy to talk to her (well I didn't talk to her much yet but so far cool =) ).

btw, yes, the Ti is most conscious to me and yes I'm very sure Ti is creative for me. I read about the supraconscious thing before and it feels like that to me exactly. but I was also ambivalent because of my definitely less wide focus than what is generally attributed to Ne leading types.

e.g. in some thread they described Ne and Se this way: Se looks in one window on an imaginary PC screen and stays there, enjoys being in the here and now, and Ne instead goes through all kinds of windows because otherwise it would get terribly bored right away. well I'm not like this.. I don't get bored. I'm more like this: I see all the windows from a distance at once, I can NOT stop myself from seeing all the windows at once, BUT I don't see them clearly at all because I'm only looking from a distance. When I move closer to explore, I will get stuck in one window for a while before moving on, but I will eventually move on and want to encompass all windows into a big picture. I thoroughly enjoy this process even though it requires a lot of intense focus but I can keep it up even when a bit tired of it. I'm almost compulsively keeping focus. =P
edit: oh and while I'm in that only one window, I'm still aware that there are other windows around that I will look at, perhaps for short periods when needed to connect things better.


oh and one more question: have you got a good link to more details on that consciousness theory?

[ambivalent existence]

Right, ambivalency stems from a lack of education and experience. It doesn't mean you are stupid though, as highly intelligent people fall victim to this horrid condition all the time.



Er, what I meant was, what gets under your skin and motivates you? What rabbles you and what do you find important and meaningful? I'm sure there are things you aren't so ambivalent about.

mm, reading your first two sentences; I don't know what you interpret as "ambivalency". maybe we mean two different things here, care to explain more?

my first post answers your questions, but if you have that short attention span too , then here's a quick sum-up:

I can't handle seemingly "overdone" morality, such as the good-bad stuff in your previous post (doesn't mean it's so in reality, I just feel that way );
I also hate it when people ignore me purposefully (I will not leave them alone then);
also if someone isn't open to sharing their thoughts.

most important to me: make things go forward in life, stay active, do things, also close relationships are very meaningful to me.

[squark]

squark, you could be awesome at this; reread your comments and think of some possibilities

what?

[Beautiful sky]

what?

What does this at the start of a post say this about this person...

"mm..."

[ashlesha]

lol

[The Ineffable]

People saying "no" to me without reasoning why not; if there is a reason given then fine I respect that. Also, people ignoring me in certain cases, that just annoys me like nothing.

Yeah, that drives me nuts as well, and in my experience the Ti-Creative individuals. It's just crazy when people do that, but I learned to get over it and be understanding. Related, I remember one instance when I put several questions to an ESI, and she did not answer them, neither she said why she didn't answer. So I got impatient and I felt almost like bulying her into telling me at least what the hell is the matter - she was not upset or something, was just talking to me friendly as those questions were never asked. But I managed to hold myself and later - making much sense after I typed her - I realized that she likely found them either embarrassing (in my shoes), inappropriate, or potentially disturbing (to me, again), and she was doing that "for my sake". This is something I can not accept inside, I normally want to know the truth no matter what, but the knowledge I currently have about different personalities makes me tolerate this behavior.

I am interested in a future discussion about rituals, ceremonies, solemnities, conventions, etiquette - subterfuges that some use to avoid inquiry ("magicians", church, dictatorships, etc). It is a different matter than the above, just I'm curious if you find interest in it as well. For the ILE, the former pertains to Ti-Creative, the latter to Ne-Base, IMO.

And that is because I think you are ILE. Don't ask me about Ne or Ti subtype, I think hypothesizing them is a misunderstanding of Model A - and of cognition even using a different model based on the IAs in Socionics. There are contradictions and inconsistencies that I diescussed before and I don't feel like going through them again (I don't even have much free time).

[ambivalent existence]

Yeah, that drives me nuts as well, and in my experience the Ti-Creative individuals. It's just crazy when people do that, but I learned to get over it and be understanding. Related, I remember one instance when I put several questions to an ESI, and she did not answer them, neither she said why she didn't answer. So I got impatient and I felt almost like bulying her into telling me at least what the hell is the matter - she was not upset or something, was just talking to me friendly as those questions were never asked. But I managed to hold myself and later - making much sense after I typed her - I realized that she likely found them either embarrassing (in my shoes), inappropriate, or potentially disturbing (to me, again), and she was doing that "for my sake". This is something I can not accept inside, I normally want to know the truth no matter what, but the knowledge I currently have about different personalities makes me tolerate this behavior.

I am interested in a future discussion about rituals, ceremonies, solemnities, conventions, etiquette - subterfuges that some use to avoid inquiry ("magicians", church, dictatorships, etc). It is a different matter than the above, just I'm curious if you find interest in it as well. For the ILE, the former pertains to Ti-Creative, the latter to Ne-Base, IMO.

And that is because I think you are ILE. Don't ask me about Ne or Ti subtype, I think hypothesizing them is a misunderstanding of Model A - and of cognition even using a different model based on the IAs in Socionics. There are contradictions and inconsistencies that I diescussed before and I don't feel like going through them again (I don't even have much free time).

thanks for your opinion. I suppose, internally I feel different than what I appear externally, so hum.

as for ESI's, my mother is probably ESI-Se, and we get along very well but we never talk about more than everyday matters. we have a great relationship

I wish you'd have more time to explain why it's a bad idea to do subtypes. btw, ILE-Ti is pretty close to how I appear. sometimes I can appear ILE-Ne though.