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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Default MBTI Visual Identification - physiognomy.me site

    I was browsing through INTP forums and found this interesting site. I disagree with almost all of their celebrity typings (see: Lady Gaga ESTJ), but their method/theory is intriguing enough.

    Anyways, click the scary faces:

    http://physiognomy.me/vfunctions/
    The end is nigh

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    Very interesting.

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    Banned Jinxi's Avatar
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    They typed me ISFj, lol.

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    The Ne girl moves around and emotes a shit ton like an Ne-ILE girl I know, the Si guy moves around a hell of a lot like Eminem, I got Oprah as Fe-EIE and she looks, in movements, like an Fe-ESE girl I know... Fi girl's doing kinda similar stuff as an Fi-SEE, though the girl in the pic's big time Introtim, likely Fi-EII... I think they're on to something, though I expect them to fuck shit up when they try to apply it themselves...
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    "From your video we believe you use the judging functions: Fe, Ti

    Your voice has a soothing, elegant, and warming quality to it that we observe in most Fe users. There is a constant emission of polite gesturing that is meant to foster mutual understanding. The hand motions you make have the puppeteer quality to them of Ti, with the deadpan/flat face in moments of processing. As a whole your articulation toggles between pausing unemotionally to process, and speaking emotionally to connect with the audience.

    From the video, it's a bit challenging to see what your perceiving functions are. We are currently revising some of our understandings, hence this is only a very soft estimate, but you appear to be using Ne+Si. Tentative, some possible types for you are ISFJ, INTP or ESFJ.

    A celebrity that reminds me of you is:
    Christina Perri:
    We believe she is Fe(Si), which may not necessarily be your type but you do share the same flavor of Fe+Ti."

    Well they're half right, at least. They really gave no reason for their Ne/Si decision, though.

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    The creators are all 21 years old, and one is a Serbian. They are ripping off socionics, darn Slavic capitalist.
     
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    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

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    Default Physiognomy: The Eight Cognitive Functions

    (i apologize if this is in the wrong section. i was looking for a v.i. board but this is as close as i could find.. ^^)

    Hello,

    I am part of a team that is currently developing a physiognomy methodology tied to cognition. The project is presently in a researching - Beta - phase, where we are seeking to identify patterns among people and their facial, body and vocal expressions. We would like to share with you our present finds and obtain your feedback & ideas, considering many of you have experience in visual identification methods and I believe we could learn a lot from each other. This is a small introduction to our work on the Eight Jungian Functions:





    It may be worthwhile to note that this physiognomy model is based on the animations/movements of the face and body, rather than on static or structural facial features. But physioanalysis is but one dimension of our confirmation; all reads are done via both a psychoanalysis and physioanalysis -- and eventually, we aim, a neurological analysis. We are intent on identifying the real connection between psychology and neuroscience, and our project's eventual goal is to develop an empirical link to Jung's work.

    I am happy to be here and most eager to hear your feedback.
    Thank you. ^_^



    As a note: Our model is neither mbti nor socionics but rather a new jung-based elaboration. It was, and is being, built purely from scratch using mountains of observation. Socionics wasn't utilized in any way in its making... and I honestly don't know if they share any similarities, but I wish to discover how it compares to socionics v.i. hence why I bring it here.
    Last edited by Valkyrie; 05-13-2012 at 02:13 PM.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    I'm curious what maritsa would think. Also, there would be some disputes amongst the forum populace on the typings of the people in those gifs.

    On the other hand, I do think I'd fit in the Worldview niche thing.

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    I actually made a thread for your site a month ago.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ight=mbti+site
    The end is nigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I actually made a thread for your site a month ago.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ight=mbti+site
    Brilliant! Arigato, Archon.

    Mm, unfortunately, I wasn't around back then to answer questions...
    I guess it's a little redundant but... can this thread still be kept open? o.o
    I hope that maybe more complex discussion can emerge and the actual signals themselves be compared w/ socionics and what other readers have noticed! :3
    Last edited by Valkyrie; 05-13-2012 at 02:23 PM.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yeah I would disagree with most of those examples.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    What is this "team" you are a part of?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    That's the same approach I take too.
    Withholding verdict until the rhythm of their brain,
    and the way that gives manifestation to their body, becomes visible to you.


    You brought up Chris Langan. That's quite interesting.
    If I'm not mistaken, LSI would translate to TiSe? And would that also be TiSeNiFe?
    I too don't think Langan and Laurie's types are far off (I suspect them to be FeNi and TeNi, respectively) but I find Hugh Laurie more comparable to Robert Downey Jr.





    A cue breakdown of this video:

    0:03 - Searching (possibly Si) Worldview
    0:04 - Se Re-Connect
    0:06 - Searching Ni Worldview
    0:07 - Hands Conducting (articulate function)
    0:09 - Data Synthesis, looking up (both perception functions)
    0:11 - Se Re-Connect, Steady Stare
    0:16 - Ni Drift to the Bottom Left
    0:19 - Se Re-Connect
    0:20 - Eyes toggle (intentional jest. not a cue)
    0:24 - Ni Drift to the Bottom Left
    0:25 - Te Articulation while eyes still in Ni Drift.
    0:30 - Se Re-Connect after having found the words.
    0:33 - Ni Drift to the Bottom Left
    0:36 - Se Re-Connect
    0:38 - Ni Drift to the Bottom Left
    0:39 - Se Re-Connect
    0:42 - Ni Drift to the Bottom Left
    0:45 - Se Re-Connect
    0:49 - Ni Drift to the Bottom Right


    He makes a lot of micro-nods and shakes (which are too subtle to list) as he articulates with a dispassionate voice, indicating Te. In other videos the Te is a lot more prominent, and his whole-face acts as one unit designed to conduct speech and presentation, but done in an emotionless way, even though there is emphasis. A Ti user would have a 'passionate' articulation since the articulate function for them would be Fe, meaning the points of emphasis would be coated with a warming feeling and expression. Hugh's words are flat and blunt, imo..

    I could consider NiTe for him just from this video, due to the strong Ni use.
    TiSe isn't entirely impossible either but a much less likely option, I think.




    A deconstruction of the first minute of this video:

    0:06 - Se Intense Eyes
    0:08 - Ni Drift (towards camera)
    0:09 - Se Connect
    0:11 - Te Face Push
    0:19 - Te Face Push
    0:28 - Te Head Shake
    0:30 - Se Re-Connect
    0:37 - Ni Drift to the Bottom Left
    0:38 - Te Articulation while eyes still in Ni Drift
    0:43 - Ni Drift
    0:48 - Se Re-Connect

    Like Hugh, Robert's articulation is flat and blunt, and the words tumble out of his mouth like rocks. He has a lot more Te use and conducted speech, and less Ni drifting than Hugh from this video, but similar style overall.

    I am curious to know whether you see any resemblance?

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    creepy.

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    Interesting site, but not sure if the typings would be the same in socionics.

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    Well, first of all, leading functions are not divided into specific physio features. As in, you can't say that all Ne look like ENTp or ENFp; that is one mistake your site is doing. Second of all, within each type, like ENTp, there are more than one physiological kind...ones with broader foreheads, ones with skinner eyes, etc.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @Gilly - Also, here is a TiSe example and a deconstruction
    to compare against Hugh Laurie's deconstruction.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8IO9L4b2UM
    At least up to 2:02 (because I'm short on time atm)

    0:30 - Se Perk Up
    0:30 - Articulator Face Push "Tiring"
    0:33 - T-Face. Dispassionate & Stone-Like
    0:39 - Articulator Hands, Rigid Body (Discernment Lead)
    0:43 - Fe Face Push & Articulator Exacting Hands (Discernment Lead)
    0:47 - Whole-Body, Whole-Face Involvement (Discernment Lead)
    0:52 - Ti Momentum Halt
    0:53 - Ti/Fe Stop-Start
    0:54 - Compass Lead, Tense Body, Pushing to "Give Birth" to Articulation
    0:57 - Ti Deadpan Face (eye neglected, blinking)
    1:00 - Se Perk Up
    1:06 - Ti Deadpan (eyes neglected, blinking)
    1:08 - Ti Puppetteer Hands
    1:08 - Fe Articulation "Moving the entire premise, all the way over" carries emotional energy and passion.
    1:11 - Fe Push & Exacting Hands - "To Asia"
    1:13 - Ballistic Se Eyes (between "archiological" and "rich")
    1:15 - Se Eyes Lock-On
    1:22 - Slight Ni Drift
    1:24 - Inferior F Smile
    1:34 - Inferior F Smile
    1:40 - Head Shake & Rigid Body (Discernment Lead)
    1:44 - Fe Nodding & Courtesy Laughter
    1:47 - Ti Meticulous Hands
    1:49 - Ti Meticulous Hands
    1:53 - Fe Articulation "Very Humble" - said with emotion and outward-directed warmth.
    1:55 - Fe Articulation "Very Exact" - said with emotion and outward-directed warmth.
    1:57 - Ti Momentum Halt - ("Um") Body pauses to process.
    1:59 - Ti Deadpan & Monotone Voice "Who plays, um"
    2:02 - Ti Deadpan + Fe Conducting Hand

    His voice overall goes meek and soft when he is in Ti Deadpan, but comes back out in moments of passionate and excited Fe. This duality is seen in all Ti dominants and not seen in Hugh Laurie. Also, when Laurie stops to think he does not go into his compass (Ti/Fi) function but rather into his worldview (in his case Ni), whereas all stops Branden makes are deadpan not Ni Drifts.

    Sorry to bombard you with posts though! I'll stop and let you reply now. ^_^; ....>.>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Well, first of all, leading functions are not divided into specific physio features. As in, you can't say that all Ne look like ENTp or ENFp; that is one mistake your site is doing. Second of all, within each type, like ENTp, there are more than one physiological kind...ones with broader foreheads, ones with skinner eyes, etc.
    We aren't saying that though. We don't base anything off of appearances, but rather on movements. All body types and facial structures (forehead sizes, eye sizes/shapes) are capable of being all types, more or less.

    Though in some cases, a person's face can become "perma-locked" at a certain look due to the way their cognition contracts the muscles of their face. In such cases it may be possible to tell functions apart via still images, but mostly we rely on animations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    We aren't saying that though. We don't base anything off of appearances, but rather on movements. All body types and facial structures (forehead sizes, eye sizes/shapes) are capable of being all types, more or less.

    Though in some cases, a person's face can become "perma-locked" at a certain look due to the way their cognition contracts the muscles of their face. In such cases it may be possible to tell functions apart via still images, but mostly we rely on animations.
    Even then, what may appear on video may be different in person or situational depending how a person feels, and other circumstances.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Even then, what may appear on video may be different in person or situational depending how a person feels, and other circumstances.
    Of course.
    As a fellow reader I'm sure you know this too. :3
    Care must be taken to properly judge the situation and whether a person is being pressured, feeling unnatural, or is in their comfort zone (etc).

    But that itself is irrelevant to the material I posted, isn't it?
    It is more or less a general stab at the concept of visual reading itself, which I'm pretty sure you're not averse to.... *scratches head* o.o

    Maybe this is a test of some sort!

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    Of course.
    As a fellow reader I'm sure you know this too. :3
    Care must be taken to properly judge the situation and whether a person is being pressured, feeling unnatural, or is in their comfort zone (etc).

    But that itself is irrelevant to the material I posted, isn't it?
    It is more or less a general stab at the concept of visual reading itself, which I'm pretty sure you're not averse to.... *scratches head* o.o
    There are too many external behavioral consistencies to find the "typical" attitude of the individual especially when filmed; for instance I type the guy you type as a Ti a TeSi because he presents himself in such a way to come off "likeable" LSE tend to want people to like them so they aren't likely to do something intense especially in something that involves their profession; you already have Richard Gere typed wrong.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Gilly and I generally agree on celebrity typings, including the one's he commented on. Personally, I type Downey Jr. as ESTp, so yes Laurie (Ti leading) and him should come off similarly.

    Although I do not agree with said typings, I found some of the theoretical explanation interesting (The Physiognomy tab and associated links).
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    @ArchonAlarion - Ah, I see. So SeTi and TiSe, that's interesting. I quite respect your deductions, actually. I've been wrong in the past and know it's important to keep an open mind. What is most important is that parallels are being drawn consistently. I think the exact details aren't as important at first as the aim to come to a unified perception.

    I see a lot of untapped potential in the prospect of visual reading, but it is such an anecdotal practice that no strong consensus seems to exist among practitioners. But if people made an effort to work together to come up with a consensual perspective, and mapped out in detail their methodology - one that can also be systematically taught/communicated to others, and be consistent in itself, there would be an avenue for objectifying the theory.

    So with that in mind, I'd be more than willing to try and collaborate with some of you and accommodate to your understandings. Yield, give & take, if the similarities are enough, until there is resonance. More than anything, that would be ideal.

    Um, I'm curious, how is it that you come to the conclusion of SeTi? Like, what do you and Gilly look for in identifying the functions?
    Or do you identify the person not by functions but as a whole appearance?

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    @ArchonAlarion - Ah, I see. So SeTi and TiSe, that's interesting. I quite respect your deductions, actually. I've been wrong in the past and know it's important to keep an open mind. What is most important is that parallels are being drawn consistently. I think the exact details aren't as important at first as the aim to come to a unified perception.

    I see a lot of untapped potential in the prospect of visual reading, but it is such an anecdotal practice that no strong consensus seems to exist among practitioners. But if people made an effort to work together to come up with a consensual perspective, and mapped out in detail their methodology - one that can also be systematically taught/communicated to others, and be consistent in itself, there would be an avenue for objectifying the theory.

    So with that in mind, I'd be more than willing to try and collaborate with some of you and accommodate to your understandings. Yield, give & take, if the similarities are enough, until there is resonance. More than anything, that would be ideal.
    Yes, I could be wrong too and would like to discuss more with you. I might make a point by point commentary on your theory. I'll leave an analysis of the visual portion alone for now because it is quite subjective at the moment.

    Um, I'm curious, how is it that you come to the conclusion of SeTi? Like, what do you and Gilly look for in identifying the functions?
    Or do you identify the person not by functions but as a whole appearance?
    I identify people as a whole as much as possible, including visual information.

    I do see Downey exhibiting the Se "Laser eye" in this video. I see a good deal of the Ti "deadening" too...




    Anyways, those aren't satisfactory behaviors for typing in themselves, but yeah... there is something to VI.

    edit: I slightly misread your above post. You type Downey as ISTj, not ENFj, idk where I got that from. No matter!
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    I type him SLE-Ti.

    Anyway, I like what you're doing. I really like the Oprah thing and the Se eyes, totally true! All the SLEs I know do that locking thing and they do that eyebrow thing that Robert Downey Jr does where they kind of furrow a bit and look all serious.

    I don't know about myself. I feel like I look around a lot when I'm talking. I mean, I know I'm expressive too but I think I look off into the distance too and don't really look at the person I'm talking to until I'm done talking. Then when they're talking, I look right into their eyes the entire time.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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