Functions of Kristiina

[Kristiina]

You can see my dilemma between ENFj and ENTj. I had a thread about the effects of behavioral type on Reinin dichotomies.
oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=4451

Yes, it seems like I am an ENFj, but I feel more comfortable when I use Te, even when I don't win the argument. And I feel quite inexperienced at Fe. Me growing up in a Fe-family makes ENFj somewhat illogical.

My face freezes into a serious fazed out look. But I get a lot of expression even when I join the chat discussion, not only when I talk to people who are in the same room. My INFp sister confirms all this and adds that when I'm in the chat or the forum, I make funny faces and sound, and if that wasn't enough, I also do emotional remarks, like "ahaaa!, Eh??, Mhhhh..., that bitch."

[Ms. Kensington]

ok. Kristiina, did you think about your bf at all in your new type considerations?

[Kristiina]

ok. Kristiina, did you think about your bf at all in your new type considerations?

I did think about him and all the other people I have typed.
It wouldn't change much. If I'm ENTj, I'm my sisters supervisor, but I guess I'm holding back.
If I'm ENFj, I'm my boyfriend's supervisor, but I guess I'm holding bock, because we don't fight.

I agree with Erkki more often than with Anneli (the sister). I tend to think that it's more likely that I'm in the same quadra with Erkki.

Me and Anneli used to fight really bad before and during our teenage. We shared a room so we had misunderstandings all the time. In the middle of teenage we stopped fighting and even started hanging out with the same group of people.

[Ms. Kensington]

what beautiful names you all have!

[Kristiina]

what beautiful names you all have!

haha. Thanks.

[Kristiina]

Which option is the most likely:

1) I'm ENFj so Fe is in my ego block
2) I'm ENTj so Te is in my ego block
3) I'm some other type.

[Gilly]

1, as I've always said

[Expat]

My face freezes into a serious fazed out look. But I get a lot of expression even when I join the chat discussion, not only when I talk to people who are in the same room. My INFp sister confirms all this and adds that when I'm in the chat or the forum, I make funny faces and sound, and if that wasn't enough, I also do emotional remarks, like "ahaaa!, Eh??, Mhhhh..., that bitch."

It's a bit of a personal criterion but I have observed that ENTjs and other -ego types tend to show little to no facial expression when working by themselves, even if interacting online with others, and even in interviews, when they are paying attention to questions. If they do show clear facial expressions, it looks forced and not natural as in the case of ESFjs for instance.

I had noticed that in a video of a one-hour long interview with Ann Coulter (ENTj IMO), how she becomes expressionless when she's not talking herself, and the same in the case of Yulia Tymoshenko (in long, more intensive interviews, not in speeches). If you can find videos of them, perhaps it's useful. The Ann Coulter one is no longer available.

I'm not claiming, however, that only ENTjs are like that, and I'm comparing them with the obviously expressive ESFjs - - not sure that ENFjs are as expressive, although one that I observe closely does tend to be.

[Kristiina]

Expat,
Have you observed female ENTjs when they are in the chat/forum/messenger?

I discovered that your examples Ann Coulter and Yulia Tymoshenko are not the best possible female ENTjs. There seems to be a discussion whether A.Coulter might actually be a man. :wink: . I am sure that the typical female thinker does not provoke discussion about her real sex. Y.Tymoshenko is a politician. I downloaded interviews and watched them. She definitely has that politician face which is considerably different from a persons real personality.

In between the questions, Yulia Tymoshenko's face didn't freeze. She was just listening (no reason to make faces), she was nodding a lot and blinking noticeably. She did her best to show the other person, "yes, I am listening." She also seemed to be saying "mhmh, mhmh, mhmh". My sister pointed out that her face is a bit to the side when she's watching straight forward (she could move her head a bit more to the right but she just looks from the side although the object is right in front of her). This is something I do, but I doubt it's relevant.

Other than that, I saw nothing particularly significant when I looked at her. Looks like a business-woman. Maybe she's Te-subtype. I also noticed that she has more facial expression than I would have expected. (Yulia Tymoshenko in the Kyiv subway, 12 March 2006,link)

Side note: When you meet someone who might be ENTj but has ENFj'ish tendencies, you will probably type her as an ENFj and it would confirm that ENFjs do indeed have these traits (over-reactive Si, active Fe, etc). You would never know that this was an ENTj who was mistyped as an ENFj.

PS! In socionics, there aren't certain ways functions will work for all people of a certain type. This is why it is so difficult to type people. (This forum thinks that there is one possible expression of a function for each certain type. This is not true. I learned this from someone very experienced who doesn't participate in this forum).

[Expat]

Expat,
Have you observed female ENTjs when they are in the chat/forum/messenger?

I am not aware of having ever met an ENTj woman. If by that you mean that my little point was flawed - - it was just a suggestion.

I discovered that your examples Ann Coulter and Yulia Tymoshenko are not the best possible female ENTjs. There seems to be a discussion whether A.Coulter might actually be a man.

That is probably because she's a very controversial figure and many people hate her.

Side note: When you meet someone who might be ENTj but has ENFj'ish tendencies, you will probably type her as an ENFj and it would confirm that ENFjs do indeed have these traits (over-reactive Si, active Fe, etc). You would never know that this was an ENTj who was mistyped as an ENFj.

*shrugs* Mistyping is always possible. Personally I use such visual impressions of a type only after observing them on people I had already typed through other means.

My boss is ENFj IMO. Could he be an ENTj mistyped as ENFj? Of course he could be. But then I'd have to start questioning the validity of even talking about types, since he clearly focuses on all the time, is disturbed, bored and exhausted by and does have all the other ENFj characteristics.

A former (male) colleague of mine is ENTj, and he does have "ENFj tendencies" since he tries to put up a facade of . However, when talking to him about anything on a deeper level, what you get is not . So the question is eventually solved.

I will grant that an extreme intuitive subtype of ENFj would start to resemble an ENTj, but would still show Beta characteristics which is what, personally, I try to focus on -- the thing about facial expressions is just a detail.

[discourse]

The most beautiful Estonian name is Edgar!

Kristiina is ISTp, I think. And she acts like one only in here, I haven't met her in real life. She shows , but it is not accepting, it is producing.

Kristiina is ISTP , yeah, yeah yeah! . Let's all laugh together from joy. We are all happy and like to express it!

[Creepy-pokeball]

Expat,
Have you observed female ENTjs when they are in the chat/forum/messenger?

One of my favorite people on one of the horticultural forums is a female ENTj. She was one of the few willing to test. She has great ideas, is very patient, has an awesome volume of knowledge (but is sometimes disturbed by my memorization of material on the US Patent site LOL!) and is very positive. She is in her mid-30's I believe.


edit- I screwed up on the quote. sue me =p

[Kristiina]

Expat, I trust your typing skills. I was just pointing out that some "type traits" might not be exclusive to only that type. There are stereotypes about all the functions. It starts out as a discussion that a type usually has certain kind of behavior and it ends up with statements "you can't be that type, they always ...". The problem is when people start using those extra things to type people. I understand that you had previously typed those people and you later started noticing similarities between them.

PS! I think I know one ENFj male. He is obsessed with Fe... All the type descriptions talk about friendly teacher type, so I haven't given him the link to any type descriptions.
1) Si - It's not cold here. And why wear a jacket if it's only snowing a little bit. It's not like the jacket will change the weather. (stereotypically ENTj)
2) Se - I am going to be rich in the future. If nothing else works out, I'm going to marry a rich old widow. I could spend my time doing nothing.(ENTj, because he wants to be rich because of money, not position.)

I get along better with gamma than beta. I can't keep up with the beta energy on the forum, and in real life, the relationships with beta stand more on mutual respect than similarity. In socionics, if there are many conflicting things (values, behavior and relations point to different quadras), people should use relations to figure out the type.

jsb'07, ISTp? I have considered it, but it's only 5% possible. I used to date an ISTp and I think I know 2 more... You would never think it's possible to fight that often... Me and the ISTp had many similar thoughts and ideas, but we just couldn't get along. I'm 100% sure that it's related to socionics theory. ISTp supervisor makes sense.

[Kristiina]

Expat,
Have you observed female ENTjs when they are in the chat/forum/messenger?

One of my favorite people on one of the horticultural forums is a female ENTj. She was one of the few willing to test. She has great ideas, is very patient, has an awesome volume of knowledge (but is sometimes disturbed by my memorization of material on the US Patent site LOL!) and is very positive. She is in her mid-30's I believe.


edit- I screwed up on the quote. sue me =p

cool! Can you say more about her? I'm very curious to find out more.

[discourse]

How do you know he was ISTp?

[implied]

agh. not ISTp, i don't think. why ISTp, jsb?

[Creepy-pokeball]

Expat,
Have you observed female ENTjs when they are in the chat/forum/messenger?

One of my favorite people on one of the horticultural forums is a female ENTj. She was one of the few willing to test. She has great ideas, is very patient, has an awesome volume of knowledge (but is sometimes disturbed by my memorization of material on the US Patent site LOL!) and is very positive. She is in her mid-30's I believe.


edit- I screwed up on the quote. sue me =p

cool! Can you say more about her? I'm very curious to find out more.

Uhm, she is a biologist. She is co-host of the forum. Her and another member bought it from the business owner when he failed. She is very goal-oriented. Uhmmm...what else? She isnt as dull or argumentitive as most ENTj's Ive encounted. Ive noticed that I really like a lot of xNTJ females for the best of both worlds (not that a male couldnt but it is less common due to whatever factors).

[Kristiina]

How do you know he was ISTp?

Because he is very stereotypical. And there is another person, who is also similar to him and I have asked him many questions... I have little doubt that the other person is ISTp. Relations with those guys are very similar. And besides that, I got him VI-ed.

[discourse]

By this far, you haven't explained very well why he was ISTp.

[Kristiina]

By this far, you haven't explained very well why he was ISTp.

I have analyzed him in every way. ISTp fits like like a glove. I don't doubt his type. This is the kind of person who hates cheerful people, never opens the curtains (sits in the dark, listens to metal). He is very judgemental about people. He doesn't talk that much, but has very good ideas if I succeed in pulling him into a discussion. When I ask him questions, he gives me two-sided or meaningless answers. Maybe ENFps would like that, but I want real answers so I won't have to assume. I can't quote someone who answers, "maybe". I can't say to myself, "he thinks that ...".

[Joy]

none of those things sounds type related, especially the stuff about him being depressed and apathetic

[Kristiina]

none of those things sounds type related, especially the stuff about him being depressed and apathetic

I know. But he is ISTp nevertheless.

[Creepy-pokeball]

pffft, I went through the trouble of that and you didnt even reply

/fired

[FDG]

none of those things sounds type related, especially the stuff about him being depressed and apathetic

Please. You can't type yourself, and you want to type other people's boyfriends?

[Joy]

I know my type... but that's irrelevant. I did not say that I want to type her boyfriend. I said that the things she mentioned are not type related.

so uhhhh... I'm sorry you're miserable?

[Kristiina]

Update: I think I can recognize ESTps now. I have to double- and triple-check some things, but inter-type relations knowledge might be greater now.

If they are ESTp, then I agree with what ENTjs have said about ESTps. I sense them in a very similar way, my opinion is similar.

I'll be going out of town for a little while. (1 night ). I'll write when I get back.

[Joy]

what have the ENTjs said about ESTps?

[discourse]

That what you sayed about this ISTp guy, isn't related to a type indeed. It rather showed he had problems with he's mental health and such things might be the reasons why he was dressed in dark and avoided people.

[Kristiina]

That what you sayed about this ISTp guy, isn't related to a type indeed. It rather showed he had problems with he's mental health and such things might be the reasons why he was dressed in dark and avoided people.

ISTps are dressed in dark and avoidant of people to a greater or lesser extent. They like to alienate from general society and when they do, they seem rather proud of it. They are the stereotypical mean goth people. Not all ISTps are like that, but this kind of lifestyle is more common among ISTps than other types. It's the same as saying that INTps read a lot and they like to show others how knowledgable they are. Maybe it's important to say that I don't know any ISTps who are older than 30 years old. Maybe they are different when they are older.

PS! I never said that ISTps would always be mean or goth.
I never said that all goth people are ISTps.

We dated for over a year, but 4 years has gone by. If I started to describe his ISTp-ness, I would probably change some of the memories for them to fit the A model. I know another ISTp and he reacts to things very similarly. I can't say that they look similar (although they are similarly built), but they act very similarly and interactions are practically the same (despite the age difference and their role in my life).

[Joy]

*tries to picture an emo ISTp*

[Kristiina]

*tries to picture an emo ISTp*

ISTps actually seem emo to me. I think I have that effect on them. I only blame myself here. I often find myself thinking, "how can anyone spend even an hour talking to them and not get annoyed?! I don't get it."