types with weak Si

[Joy]

particularly a Si PoLR... do you relate to this?

If someone wants to bother me, really the only way to do it is to look around my house and say "How can you stand to live surrounded by toys in the livingroom and dishes in the sink and clothes on the bedroom floor and papers all over the dining room table?" or criticize the way I care for the eating habits of myself and my family (no, we don't eat healthy foods most of the time, we eat what is easy and inexpensive) or that I'm wearing the same clothes I wore for the last two days (most likely because I haven't had a shower since then) and haven't shaved in two weeks. It bothers me because they're right and there's really nothing I can say to defend myself.

[anndelise]

particularly a Si PoLR... do you relate to this?

If someone wants to bother me, really the only way to do it is to look around my house and say "How can you stand to live surrounded by toys in the livingroom and dishes in the sink and clothes on the bedroom floor and papers all over the dining room table?" or criticize the way I care for the eating habits of myself and my family (no, we don't eat healthy foods most of the time, we eat what is easy and inexpensive) or that I'm wearing the same clothes I wore for the last two days (most likely because I haven't had a shower since then) and haven't shaved in two weeks. It bothers me because they're right and there's really nothing I can say to defend myself.

ISFp boyfriend who takes care of the house cleaning and cooking:
Toys in the living room? got it
Dishes in the sink? got it (in fact I'm the one who has to set the rule that all the dishes have to get done after each meal...and he felt less frustrated when each of us got our own set of dishes and we have to wash our own dishes...he washes mine though cuz he luvs me)
Clothes on the bedroom floor? had it (I got a three bag holder for containing our dirty clothes)
Piles of papers/books? got it
Eating habits? prefers to eat while watching Simpsons or a 30 min show. Food is not necessarily healthy, and if he can get away with buying pizza/take out, he will.
Comes home from work, puts on the same set of shorts (lasts a week) and uses 2 home shirts a week. However, he does shower nightly.
Shaves every other sunday. (and he produces a lot of hair!)

Doesn't feel a need to defend the way he lives. "Accept it or don't" is his attitude.

So, basically, i don't think that that paragraph above applies to weak/polr Si.

[felafel]

particularly a Si PoLR... do you relate to this?

If someone wants to bother me, really the only way to do it is to look around my house and say "How can you stand to live surrounded by toys in the livingroom and dishes in the sink and clothes on the bedroom floor and papers all over the dining room table?" or criticize the way I care for the eating habits of myself and my family (no, we don't eat healthy foods most of the time, we eat what is easy and inexpensive) or that I'm wearing the same clothes I wore for the last two days (most likely because I haven't had a shower since then) and haven't shaved in two weeks. It bothers me because they're right and there's really nothing I can say to defend myself.

gross! it kinda reminds me of my parents...I'd say, it has to do with procrastination if anything...(at least it had/s to in my parents' case, i think).

and procrastinatin'd be linked to what...if function-related at all?

[Joy]

we linked it to Ni in another thread, but that seemed rather questionable.

if that's not weak Si.... what is?

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

particularly a Si PoLR... do you relate to this?

If someone wants to bother me, really the only way to do it is to look around my house and say "How can you stand to live surrounded by toys in the livingroom and dishes in the sink and clothes on the bedroom floor and papers all over the dining room table?" or criticize the way I care for the eating habits of myself and my family (no, we don't eat healthy foods most of the time, we eat what is easy and inexpensive) or that I'm wearing the same clothes I wore for the last two days (most likely because I haven't had a shower since then) and haven't shaved in two weeks. It bothers me because they're right and there's really nothing I can say to defend myself.

do i have weak Si?
i still dont know the order of my functions, or how to find out
but i dont know if i relate to this. if someone said it in a joking manner id be like "whatever lol" if they were more serious sounding, id probably just glare at them and be like, "whatever."

lolz

[felafel]

we linked it to Ni in another thread, but that seemed rather questionable.

if that's not weak Si.... what is?

well, functions can't account for all idiosyncrasies...

[Joy]

I'll add to what I was sayinng about weak Si. there's also more obvious stuff, like frequently going too long without eating, to the point of giving myself a migraine. not knowing that I'm dehydrated until I stop sweating. overeating when I go out to eat to the point of being uncomfortable the rest of the night. not knowing that I had whooping cough or mono and going to work with them. not taking it at all easy after surgeries. blah blah blah. I'm not as sensitive about those things though.

[Expat]

Doesn't feel a need to defend the way he lives. "Accept it or don't" is his attitude.
.

That is the difference. He does not care about criticisms on that. He is confident on , it's not his PoLR.

I relate to the paragraph, with one exception - - my reaction has nothing to do with "defend myself", but it's rather "shit, some people do care about this sort of crap and I probably made a bad impression, which can cause me some problems" which is the PoLR + role function.

[Joy]

I'm a woman. For me to have weak Si is worse (to society) than for a man to have strong Fe.

To expand, if a person walks into a couple's home, and it looks disasterous (I like to call it organized piles), they automatically think "How could she let it get like this?!"

[Rocky]

Are ENFPs not considered feminine?

(BTW, I was going to reply the same way Expat did)

[Raver]

I agree with Anndelise, I don't believe has anything to do with neatness or healthiness. My ISFp brother rarely eats healthy and his room is always in squalor. If anything, I'm the one who attempts to eat healthy and be clean at least compared to him. However, my ESFj mom would probably be linked to that stereotype of of neatness and healthy eating. Maybe, coupled with rationality would behave in that manner. All this proves is that your not an ESFj/ESTj.

[Joy]

you all missed the point except rocky and expat

[Raver]

you all missed the point except rocky and expat

I think anyone will get annoyed if someone told them their house was unsanitary.

[Joy]

it's not unsanitary

I mean, the dishes in the sink are, but it's not like I ate off of them or anything...

dirty clothes are unsanitary... but I don't wear clothes that are dirty. maybe I wear them for more than one day, but if they look or smell dirty, I won't wear them until they're washed...

and the papers and toys are not unsanitary.

I'm actually weird about making sure things are cleaned REALLY well when I do clean them... which is why I don't clean often. It's frustrating to spend 3 hours on one thing to get it perfect and then look up and everything else still needs to be done.

[Raver]

it's not unsanitary

I mean, the dishes in the sink are, but it's not like I ate off of them or anything...

dirty clothes are unsanitary... but I don't wear clothes that are dirty. maybe I wear them for more than one day, but if they look or smell dirty, I won't wear them until they're washed...

and the papers and toys are not unsanitary.

I'm actually weird about making sure things are cleaned REALLY well when I do clean them... which is why I don't clean often. It's frustrating to spend 3 hours on one thing to get it perfect and then look up and everything else still needs to be done.

LOL, DON'T LIE YOU HAVE COCKROACHES AND DISEASES CRAWLING AROUND!



JK, I should of used unclean, unsanitary is too extreme.

[anndelise]

Doesn't feel a need to defend the way he lives. "Accept it or don't" is his attitude.
.

That is the difference. He does not care about criticisms on that. He is confident on , it's not his PoLR.

I relate to the paragraph, with one exception - - my reaction has nothing to do with "defend myself", but it's rather "shit, some people do care about this sort of crap and I probably made a bad impression, which can cause me some problems" which is the PoLR + role function.

I really don't believe that it has to do with "being confident in Si". I think it has to do with caring about what people think of you. And you yourself have implied that your reaction stems from caring about opinions of others. (although, more cuz bad impressions could cause you problems) He could care less what those outside of his circle think of him or the way he lives. They don't matter to him. And those within his circle made it there because they accept him. Those who didn't accept him, didn't make it into the circle. What does caring about people's opinions (or in your case avoiding potential problems) have to do with Si?

[Ms. Kensington]

particularly a Si PoLR... do you relate to this?

If someone wants to bother me, really the only way to do it is to look around my house and say "How can you stand to live surrounded by toys in the livingroom and dishes in the sink and clothes on the bedroom floor and papers all over the dining room table?" or criticize the way I care for the eating habits of myself and my family (no, we don't eat healthy foods most of the time, we eat what is easy and inexpensive) or that I'm wearing the same clothes I wore for the last two days (most likely because I haven't had a shower since then) and haven't shaved in two weeks. It bothers me because they're right and there's really nothing I can say to defend myself.

ISFp boyfriend who takes care of the house cleaning and cooking:
Toys in the living room? got it
Dishes in the sink? got it (in fact I'm the one who has to set the rule that all the dishes have to get done after each meal...and he felt less frustrated when each of us got our own set of dishes and we have to wash our own dishes...he washes mine though cuz he luvs me)
Clothes on the bedroom floor? had it (I got a three bag holder for containing our dirty clothes)
Piles of papers/books? got it
Eating habits? prefers to eat while watching Simpsons or a 30 min show. Food is not necessarily healthy, and if he can get away with buying pizza/take out, he will.
Comes home from work, puts on the same set of shorts (lasts a week) and uses 2 home shirts a week. However, he does shower nightly.
Shaves every other sunday. (and he produces a lot of hair!)

Doesn't feel a need to defend the way he lives. "Accept it or don't" is his attitude.

So, basically, i don't think that that paragraph above applies to weak/polr Si.

lolol hhaha i am Si dominant by the looks of this

actually on a more serious note, family members who are ENTj and ISFp, oddly, both ask me how can i stand having stuff on the floor. Most of the time i step around the stuff.. but yeah occaisionally it will all just hit me and i have attacks when i am disgusted.

[Expat]

Fair enough.

In my own case it goes more like this.

Professionally I deal with clients, which means wearing a business suit and looking "professional". Personally I'd much prefer dealing with a scientist or engineer who dresses like a bum and never shaves but knows what he's talking about technically, rather than a very well-dressed guy who can "walk the walk and talk the talk" but is clueless. Of course there are some people who can more or less do both, but the point is, in technical matters, for me, if you can do the former, the second is irrelevant one way or the other.

But in this + obsessed world, I have to play the game too, so I do my best to look "professional".

And my PoLR is visible in that I'm never sure if I'm being successful or not. Many times I thought I was dressed ok with a good appearance, only for people to remark later on things like my suit actually looked old or worn, my glasses looked dirty, my tie wasn't 100% adjusted -- and the point is, I honestly don't notice this kind of thing, and don't trust my ability to notice them.

Personally I don't care, and I find it embarrassing that so many people do care and regard this kind of nonsense as part of being "professional". But the reality is that many people care, and this may have consequences. And I'm never sure whether I'm being successful or not in that regard.

[Slacker]

my ENTj ex-bf used to call himself ugly all the time. He wasn't ugly at all, so at the time I just assumed he was fishing for compliments.

[FDG]

my ENTj ex-bf used to call himself ugly all the time. He wasn't ugly at all, so at the time I just assumed he was fishing for compliments.

Well, I would guess he wasn't, but it's not something that should be done, or that I would do. I generally tend to not give any opinion on my appearance unless it's on the spot (which I kinda dislike).

[Slacker]

Maybe he thought I was judging his appearance or putting him on the spot? I don't know.

[anndelise]

Fair enough.

In my own case it goes more like this.

Professionally I deal with clients, which means wearing a business suit and looking "professional". Personally I'd much prefer dealing with a scientist or engineer who dresses like a bum and never shaves but knows what he's talking about technically, rather than a very well-dressed guy who can "walk the walk and talk the talk" but is clueless. Of course there are some people who can more or less do both, but the point is, in technical matters, for me, if you can do the former, the second is irrelevant one way or the other.

But in this + obsessed world, I have to play the game too, so I do my best to look "professional".

And my PoLR is visible in that I'm never sure if I'm being successful or not. Many times I thought I was dressed ok with a good appearance, only for people to remark later on things like my suit actually looked old or worn, my glasses looked dirty, my tie wasn't 100% adjusted -- and the point is, I honestly don't notice this kind of thing, and don't trust my ability to notice them.

Personally I don't care, and I find it embarrassing that so many people do care and regard this kind of nonsense as part of being "professional". But the reality is that many people care, and this may have consequences. And I'm never sure whether I'm being successful or not in that regard.

*gets all excited*
I love it when people give me such clear descriptions of their experiences!!! Thank you, Expat.

Now, Regarding Si polr. Yes, I can easily see how having weak Si can account for not quite knowing the aesthetic values of one's appearance and one's environments.
I don't have Si polr, in fact, it's supposedly one of my strong functions. I can get a sense of if something isn't fitting in aesthetically, at least to my own tastes. I even tend to mentally criticize the fit of an outfit on someone else. (Yes, I even criticize my own outfits...I'm never satisfied.) However, when it comes to creating an aesthetically pleasing outfit, or putting colors together, or making sure a line in a drawing is just perfect, etc... I am clueless. I'm capable of rearranging something to be a little more aesthetically pleasing, but i can't actually..plan..it out, I can't bring the items together from scratch. And I seem limited on the actual effects I'm able to produce, always falling short of meeting my own preferences.

Regarding reactions to criticisms:
I know, from experience, that if someone points out a flaw in an item which Richard has crafted, it would bug him immensely that he failed to catch that himself, he'd rerun the process of creation through his head, constantly.

Expat, if your ENTj mentor criticised something about your use of logic in a certain situation, or criticised your approach in achieving a business goal, would it affect you?

Now, if Joy were discussing these types of things, then I'd understand it. She says I missed the point. I say I didn't. The reactions to the criticisms themselves are not based on Si, neither strong Si, weak Si, nor polr Si. The reactions themselves come from not meeting some expectation, whether one's own expectations, or the expectations of those whose opinions one considers important.

[olduser]

that sounds revolting. I once knew a guy who's family didn't take care of anything and he was a bad seed with a load of illegal fireworks. i attempted sleep once on his most-likely pee-soaked pull out coach mattress while watching the movie 'thunderheart.' Actually, i didn't mind him, but I couldn't help but think about our family's differences. My family is clean, holds jobs in positions to help society, and is always trying to move up in the world. His family was absent, or drunk, and they owned a speedboat. I didn't feel sorry for him because he had his own life and never blamed his family for any of his behaviours of ill-repute.

anyway. pigly behavior is disgusting, and can lead to the spread of infections, falls, lost time, your possessions having a shorter lifespan, etc.

oh plus, laziness is ugly and spreads into many aspects of your life whether you know it or not.

Also, i never meant to imply that being clean was about 'looks.' or society's goals. things function better when they are clean. dirty guns backfire. dirty motor engines run crappy and give problems when dirty. anyway, just consider the problem with some sense of logic and stop thinking about what other people think.

wait for the entjs to say, "oh no, not me"

joy to say, "but i do this and that."

everyone else to say, "heath is a jerk, but i bet he knows where his keys are."

[Expat]

heath

You're ESTp.

EDIT: and you just totally missed the point.

The moment that cleanliness affects functionality as in guns backfiring etc, it's not about anymore, but about .

is about sensations, not functionality.

[olduser]

heath

You're ESTp.

EDIT: and you just totally missed the point.

The moment that cleanliness affects functionality as in guns backfiring etc, it's not about anymore, but about .

is about sensations, not functionality.

Wait. I got it. You handle telling people about the useless psuedo-science. I'll handle telling them how not to be lazy fucking slobs. and GO!

[Joy]

Yeah, I suppose the way one is raised accounts for their housekeeping skills to some extent.

My house always looked like a tornado hit it when I was growing up. It was my job (and my brother and sister's which translated to being my job once again) to clean the house. They'd let it go for months and then get all strict and make me do a whole shitload of cleaning. It was quite frustrating. Peter says that I'm messy because I'm rebeling against some invisible person telling me it has to be done.

My mom raised herself and her sister, and my dad was raised by himself and his sisters. Alcoholism's a bitch.

[anndelise]

Peter says that I'm messy because I'm rebeling against some invisible person telling me it has to be done.

For me, it's a combo of rebelling and laziness.

*chuckles*
I'm one of those people who digs their heels in when someone else tells me what I should be doing, or how I should be. Even if it was something I wanted in the first place, the mere act of them "telling me" makes me get all stubborn as a mule.
This makes life quite interesting when I happen to be the one telling myself what to do or what I should be doing.
(especially when it comes to household chores)

[Expat]

Expat, if your ENTj mentor criticised something about your use of logic in a certain situation, or criticised your approach in achieving a business goal, would it affect you?

I never had any mentor, ENTj or not.

-related criticisms would not annoy me in themselves, I would be annoyed at myself if I had really made an obvious mistake.

[Rocky]

Peter says that I'm messy because I'm rebeling against some invisible person telling me it has to be done.

For me, it's a combo of rebelling and laziness.

*chuckles*
I'm one of those people who digs their heels in when someone else tells me what I should be doing, or how I should be. Even if it was something I wanted in the first place, the mere act of them "telling me" makes me get all stubborn as a mule.
This makes life quite interesting when I happen to be the one telling myself what to do or what I should be doing.
(especially when it comes to household chores)

I'm the same way...


Oh, and I don't think looking professional is really - it's probably more .

[Joy]

I do that what I need to in order to look professional, too. I won't go to an inspection with icky hair or whatever. And I pull a clean shirt out of the clean laundry basket and put it in the dryer so there aren't wrinkles.