View Poll Results: agape

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  • ILE (ENTp)

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  • SEI (ISFp)

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  • ESE (ESFj)

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  • LII (INTj)

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  • EIE (ENFj)

    1 20.00%
  • LSI (ISTj)

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  • SLE (ESTp)

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  • IEI (INFp)

    2 40.00%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    1 20.00%
  • ILI (INTp)

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  • LIE (ENTj)

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  • ESI (ISFj)

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  • LSE (ESTj)

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  • EII (INFj)

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Thread: agape

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  1. #1
    WE'RE ALL GOING HOME HERO's Avatar
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    Default agape

    genetically edited for straightness
    Last edited by HERO; 01-27-2021 at 12:12 PM.

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    ☁ ☁ ☁ ☁ ☁ Birdie's Avatar
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    It's really hard for me to type someone from their right arm
    and their singing voice. Perhaps I'm an amateur.

  3. #3
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    I didn't really post that video for typing purposes, per se. I should probably try making another video of me talking like I did in the past. Yet like I said, I didn't really intend for this thread to centre on videos or anything--it's just incidental.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agape View Post
    I didn't really post that video for typing purposes, per se. I should probably try making another video of me talking like I did in the past. Yet like I said, I didn't really intend for this thread to centre on videos or anything--it's just incidental.
    Oh. I must have missed where you said that.
    I don't see it in the thread.

  5. #5
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    Anyway, I have to go back to sleep. I didn't really sleep enough.

    I thought I should add that I considered k0rpsey to be one of the smartest people here, if not the smartest, along with The Ineffable . . .

    I'm trying to remember if there was anything in Virginia Woolf's The Waves that used the words/phrase "the 'ineffable'" or something...

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    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agape View Post
    I thought I should add that I considered k0rpsey to be one of the smartest people here, if not the smartest, along with The Ineffable . . .
    Thanks but I'm actually a pretentious moron. Don't be fooled, bro. Also:

    - my Aunt: "Romantic love is a trap. It doesn't function and it brings only heart break.
    I believe only in love as agape, as friendship between two kindred minds and souls.
    Two human beings who share similar interests, can communicate and are stable and strong separately to be able to sustain the times together in a balanced way.
    But most relationships are far from that, hence so much suffering, resentment..."
    Based on the various sayings attributed to your aunt that you've placed in your signature, if she is in fact a living human female then I would like to fornicate with this delightfully cynical being.

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    “The Jungian doctrine of the shadow, and the notion that evil is the reverse of good, are aimed at denying

    the reality of evil. But evil is real. It is not innate but acquired, and it is never the reverse of good but rather its

    destroyer….It is not true that evil, destructiveness, and perversion inevitably form part of human existence, no

    matter how often this is maintained. But it is true that evil is always engaged in producing more evil and, with

    it, an ocean of suffering for millions that is similarly avoidable. When one day the ignorance arising from

    childhood repression is eliminated and humanity has awakened, an end can be put to this production of evil.”

    --Alice Miller

    from Banished Knowledge
    Last edited by HERO; 04-21-2013 at 09:56 AM.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Are you Yury?

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Agape, have you considered SEI? Why or why not?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Agape, have you considered SEI? Why or why not?
    SEI (ISFp) or SEE (ESFp), because I think the poll shows that you voted for SEE (ESFp), which could be kind of cool if it were true.

  11. #11
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    http://innerself.com/content/self-he...younghans.html

    'AS ONE OF the transpersonal planets, Uranus is the ruler of higher consciousness and the Unified Field where all information is stored. When Uranus' energy is strong, our intuitive faculties may be heightened, and we find ourselves knowing something without knowing how we know it.

    On the other hand, with the field of electrical/intellectual energy especially strong, we can also feel less stable mentally. As the field of higher consciousness draws closer, our human brains must learn how to navigate in unfamiliar territory.

    With this part of the Uranus effect in mind, it's interesting to read the Sabian symbol for the 9th degree of Aries, where Uranus stations this week:

    "A crystal gazer: The development of an inner realization of organic wholeness."

    THIS IMAGE tells us that throughout Uranus' five-month retrograde phase (ending December 13), we will collectively be working to expand our abilities to tap into that Unified Field of Consciousness. As this occurs, telepathic experiences will no doubt increase, and extra-sensory abilities of many descriptions will be enhanced.

    For those who are comfortable with these concepts, this can be a very exciting time! And, those who are fearful may need support and reassurance that they are not losing their sanity.'

    "WHEN PLANETS are retrograde, they are asking us to go inward, to rely less on externals and to build new levels of inner skill in some area. Since Mercury represents our conscious, reasoning mind and external communication abilities, when Mercury is retrograde, we are being asked to remember what it means to live more intuitively and less logically."

    "THERE IS ALSO a certain element of Coyote energy about a Mercury retrograde period. The Trickster can be problematic if we're too set in our ways, if we're not flexible and cannot laugh at ourselves.

    Try to remember this aspect of Mercury retrograde if you experience some frustrations in the next few weeks. See if you can step back from the situation and get a glimpse of the humor, even if it's just to laugh at how human we can all be at times. A lighter attitude can go a long way toward easing the bumps in the road."

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    *puts head on your chest and sighs*

  13. #13
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    - from Forbidden Colors by Yukio Mishima; pp. 317-319 (26—Sobering Summer): When the three men finished eating, twilight had enshrouded the lawn tables. The patrons were suddenly gone; the loudspeaker was silent. All that remained was the sound of waves. Kawada left his seat. Between the old man and Yuichi there fell a silence that had become habitual now.
    After a time Shunsuke spoke.
    “You’ve changed.”
    “Is that so?”
    “You certainly have. It frightens me. I had a hunch it would happen. I had a hunch that sometime the day must come that the person you were would disappear. Because you are radium. You are a radioactive substance. Now that I think about it, I have feared it for a long time. Still, to a certain extent, you are the person you were before. So now, I think, we should part company.”
    The word “part” made the youth laugh. “ ‘Part,’ you say? You make it seem as if there was something between us up to now, sir.”
    “Surely there has been something. Do you doubt it?”
    “I only understand you in the vulgar sense.”
    “There! That expression wouldn’t have been used by the old you.”
    “In that case, I’d better keep quiet.”
    Yuichi was not aware of the long-standing perplexity and the deep deliberation that these casual words of the author expressed. Shunsuke exhaled deeply in the darkness.
    There was indeed in Shunsuke Hinoki a profound perplexity about his own creation. This perplexity had its abysses, and it had its vistas. If he were a young man, he would soon have recovered from his perplexity. To him at his age, however, the value of that awakening was doubtful. Is not awakening an even deeper delusion? Where are we going? Why do we wish to wake up? Since humanity is an illusion, is not the supremely wise awakening the erection of well-disciplined, logical, artificial illusions in the midst of this greater, highly complicated, uncontrollable illusion? The will not to awaken, the will not to recover, now maintained Shunsuke’s health.
    His love for Yuichi was part of that perplexity. He worried; he suffered. The well-known irony of the formal beauty of his work, the spiritual pain and confusion expended in disciplining his emotions, and yet the irony that only through the disciplining would a final, real confession of the pain and the confusion be attained—all these struggled in him now. By holding fast to the course he had planned at the beginning, he maintained the right and the initiative of confession. If love went so far as to take away his right of confession as the artist saw it, the love he had not confessed would not exist.
    Yuichi’s transformation, in Shunsuke’s sharp eyes, had sketched out this dangerous possibility.
    “It hurts, but at any rate . . .” Shunsuke’s voice, hoarse with age, came from the darkness, “even though it hurts me more than I can express, Yuchan, I think for the time being we’d better not see each other. Up till now you were the one to cavil about whether you would see me. You were the one who would not meet me. Now it is I saying we should not meet. If ever the necessity arises, however, if for some reason it becomes necessary to see me, then I will meet you gladly. Now, I suppose you don’t think that necessity will arise . . .”
    “No.”
    “That’s what you think, but . . .”
    Shunsuke’s hand touched Yuichi’s as it lay on the armrest. Though it was midsummer, Shunsuke’s hand was extremely cold.
    “At any rate, we won’t meet again until then.”
    “All right—if that’s what you wish, sir.”
    Fishing torches flickered in the offing. Conscious that they would probably not have the opportunity again for a time, they fell into their familiar, uncomfortable silence.



    The Stricken Children

    The Wishing Well was a spring
    bubbling clear and soundless into a shallow pool
    less than three feet across, a hood of rocks
    protecting it, smallest of grottoes, from falling leaves,
    the pebbles of past wishes peacefully under-water, old desires
    forgotten or fulfilled. No one threw money in, one had to search
    for the right small stone.

    This was the place from which
    year after year in childhood I demanded my departure,
    my journeying forth into the world of magical
    cities, mountains, otherness—the place which gave
    what I asked, and more; to which
    still wandering, I returned this year, as if
    to gaze once more at the face
    of an ancient grandmother.
    And I found the well
    filled to the shallow brim
    with debris of a culture’s sickness—
    with bottles, tins, paper, plastic—
    the soiled bandages
    of its aching unconsciousness.

    Does the clogged spring still moisten
    the underlayer of waste?
    Was it children threw in the rubbish?
    Children who don’t dream, or dismiss
    their own desires and
    toss them down, discarded packaging?
    I move away, walking fast, the impetus
    of so many journeys, pushes me on,
    but where are the stricken children of this time, this place,
    to travel to, in Time if not in Place,
    the grandmother wellspring choked, and themselves not aware
    of all they are doing-without?

    Denise Levertov

  14. #14
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    http://innerself.com/content/self-he...younghans.html

    Pam Younghans: 'WEDNESDAY appears to be a turning-point day for the week of August 13. On that day, Venus interacts with energy of the Pluto-Uranus square, Mars aligns with Saturn in Libra, and Chiron trines Venus. Any one of these influences acting by itself could affect the course of our relationships. Having them all occur on the same day is even more significant.

    We'll start to feel the energy shift on Tuesday the 14th, as the Sun steps into place to work with Uranus and Pluto. This interaction should fire up our need to express our individuality, while also making it apparent where current structures seem to be interfering with our personal fulfillment.

    THE THREE VENUS ASPECTS on Wednesday are an energetic mouthful, so it may be easiest to take them one bite at a time:

    The Venus-Pluto opposition intensifies our awareness of trust issues. We feel more sensitive than usual, and are more likely to react defensively to perceived threats. The positive effect of this aspect is to bring issues into our awareness that have been brushed under the carpet. This will enable us to bring greater honesty into our relationships, but we will need to be careful of using truth as an excuse to be hurtful.

    The Venus-Uranus square pushes our "I need to be me" buttons, which isn't usually conducive to the patience and moderation needed to keep relationships on an even keel. If we've been denying something important about our needs, this aspect will exaggerate those needs so that we can no longer ignore them. This is a good time to allow everyone a bit of latitude, since all of us will likely be more focused on ourselves and less worried about accommodating the needs of others.

    The Venus-Chiron trine provides the energy of healing and brings compassion into our interactions -- which it sounds like will be very helpful, given the intensity of the Pluto and Uranus aspects. This trine should help us move into a higher perspective with regards to our relationships. The key will be to letting go of the need to be right and releasing our grip on power struggles that may arise. If we can move into the energy of the high heart, we will be much happier with the outcomes.

    THE SATURN-MARS alignment -- also on Wednesday the 15th! -- marks an important shift point, an ending and a beginning. Saturn represents the themes of discipline and self-reliance, while Mars inspires us to take action and to find the courage needed to embark on new paths.'

    'THE NEW MOON on Friday, August 17, is in Leo, inspiring us to have the Lion's courage as we begin anew. Leo is a fire sign, and when operating at its highest vibration is inspired and creative, fully engaged in life's adventure and enjoying the present moment.

    The Sabian symbol for the location of the Sun and Moon at the time of the lunation is very encouraging:

    "After a heavy storm, a rainbow: Linking above and below, the Convenant with one's divine nature, the promise of immortality."

    Dane Rudhyar's interpretation of this symbol in his book An Astrological Mandala takes us further into the hopeful metaphor of the rainbow:

    "As we come to this level, we find we have been able to weather the cathartic storm; because we have been victorious, a link has been established with our divine Soul-being. Both the human and the divine partners should remain thus linked.

    "The symbol of the rainbow shows us the need to maintain a state of open communication between the Sky and the Earth within our total being -- not for the sake of finding the ever-elusive 'pot of gold' at the end of the rainbow, but in order to face the totality of our individual selfhood as it is projected in the many-hued dome of our sky-flung consciousness. After every successfully-met crisis, the Revelation of Worth comes to us."

    IT APPEARS that there is great potential in the second half of August. We see the possibility of a new beginning, and that the planetary alignments will support us in having the courage and insight needed to begin to manifest the new life we have envisioned.

    With the next Pluto-Uranus square coming up in mid-September, we realize that the themes of clearing, renovation and change will continue -- but it's good to know we also have rainbows we can count on.'


    http://www.iraresoul.com/sex_essays.html#4

    'Being in Love is a Disturbed Ideal [by Daniel Mackler]

    Although society and most people – and of course popular music – hold being “in love” as the ideal state of human existence, they are all deluding themselves, literally. Being in love is little more than the state of transferring onto some new person – your “love object” – all your repressed childhood hopes that your parents will finally come to rescue you. This hope, which is the root of all addictions, is so intense that if you actually believe that it can be fulfilled it sends you into the deepest emotional orbit, more intense even than heroin. No wonder most people desperately strive for it.

    You might ask, though, what about the eighty year old married couples who are still “in love” after fifty-five years of marriage? My reply: What about mild addicts – functional alcoholics, let’s say – who manage to stay pickled on their four daily martinis up through ninety years old – and even credit their booze with keeping them alive for so long? (And they’re probably right – the booze probably did prolong their “life,” if you could call that a life.)

    My second reply: Do those couples really love each other so much, or are they more just attracted to a fantasy of whom their partners are? From what I’ve observed, when you scratch below the surface of such couples you find that they really DON’T know each other that well, and are just interacting – and being “in love” – with a fraction of their personalities. And they want it that way! If they knew each other too well it would shatter their illusion. No surprise that as the increase in expectation of marriage partners being “best friends” – that is, more emotionally intimate – has gone hand-in-hand with the skyrocketing of the divorce rate.

    As I close, let me differentiate between being “in love” and actually loving someone. In many ways the two are polar opposites, even if sometimes people who are “in love” can behave lovingly toward one another. Allow me to make a list:

    1) Being in love is projecting that someone will rescue you; loving someone is nurturing and caring for the best in them

    2) Being in love comes from the false self, that still damaged side of us, and wants a false image of another to rescue us; loving someone comes from the true self, and nurtures the true self of another

    3) Being in love is generally full of disrespect, both of one’s own and another’s self. It doesn’t honor the true boundaries of another’s truth. The extreme of this happens when really troubled people fall in love with complete strangers and go so far as to believe these strangers have returned this “love.” Loving someone, on the other hand, is inherently respectful. It respects the boundaries of who they really are.

    4) Really loving someone truly grows over time. Being in love gets weaker over time – and when it grows it tends to be a sign that the “in love” person has a penchant for more extreme forms of delusion.

    5) Being in love brings only a limited sense of fulfillment, and often leaves people feeling crushed and rejected. Really loving someone brings deep fulfillment – to both involved.

    6) Being in love gets all mixed up with romance (and often sex). Loving someone deflates romance – and opens the door to something so much more rewarding.'

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  16. #16
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    http://innerself.com/content/self-he...younghans.html

    Pam Younghans: 'AS I PONDER the list of planetary aspects for the coming week, a quote from Shakespeare comes to mind: "Now is the winter of our discontent." Whether we are in the final weeks of summer in the Northern Hemisphere, or the last month of winter in the Southern Hemisphere, this quote is appropriate in its description of how we may be feeling as we begin the month of September.'

    "ALTHOUGH most of us may be familiar with those first seven words of the opening scene of Shakespeare's Richard III, we may not realize that the longer passage is one of hope, not of despair. Here are a few more of the opening lines from the play:


    Now is the winter of our discontent
    Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
    And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
    In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.
    Now are our brows bound with victorious wreaths;
    Our bruised arms hung up for monuments;
    Our stern alarums changed to merry meetings,
    Our dreadful marches to delightful measures.
    "

    "THE PUSH from Pluto and Uranus is building now, as we are just a short two weeks away from their second square (exact on September 18). These powerful planets are pushing us into the future, acting as catalysts for the changes that we need to make, both internally and externally, if we are to build lives that are more enlivening, empowering, on purpose and satisfying.

    En route, we are uprooting and overcoming the vestiges of old patterns that have kept us disempowered (Pluto in Capricorn). We are also growing more restless with any restrictions and any fears that seem to keep us from creating the fulfilling lives we instinctively know are possible (Uranus in Aries)."

    'ALSO OF INTEREST is that the asteroid Pallas Athene steps into alignment with Uranus this week. This makes Pallas, our goddess of wisdom and war, the banner-carrier for the influence of the Pluto-Uranus square.

    Pallas will conjoin Uranus in Aries on Tuesday, inspiring and encouraging us to act on the directives from our higher wisdom. Our revolutionary spirit is enhanced, and we are less constrained by fear of what may lie ahead. Our humanitarian tendencies are also engaged, and we care deeply about the condition of all who share our planet.

    Author Anne Frank personified this energy, with Pallas conjunct Uranus in Aries in her birth chart, and both planets conjunct her Midheaven. Her courageous and optimistic diary, written at a very dark time in our history, continues to inspire us today through quotes like these:

    "Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart."

    "The best remedy for those who are afraid, lonely or unhappy is to go outside, somewhere where they can be quiet, alone with the heavens, nature and God. Because only then does one feel that all is as it should be."

    FRESHLY ENERGIZED by Uranus, Pallas then confronts Pluto on Friday. This is when our higher wisdom is both challenged and needed, for Pluto may show us where internal (unconscious) and external blocks to our ideal world still remain.

    Astrologer Demetra George, author of the book Asteroid Goddesses, writes that the solution to this type of challenge:

    "...lies in releasing the negative aspects of our mental expression and replacing them with faith, hope, and optimism. As an ancient spiritual proverb puts it, 'Be ye transformed through the renewing of your mind.'"

    It is synchronistic that this was exactly how Anne Frank was able to thrive creatively under dire physical and emotional circumstances. She is our shining example of the power of the human spirit to create a positive from a negative -- through her ability to see the good in people, yes, but even more through her knowing that the answer to her challenges -- many of which were outside of her ability to control -- was to find peace and inspiration within her own being, enhanced by her connection with Nature and with Source.'
    Last edited by HERO; 01-27-2021 at 12:00 PM.

  17. #17
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    http://innerself.com/content/self-he...younghans.html



    http://spaceweather.com/submissions/...1346734483.jpg

    - Pam Younghans: "IN BRIEF, the yod is showing us where old relationship patterns no longer work. Pluto in Capricorn wants Venus in Leo to be willing to commit to a new level of honesty and intimacy, and make adjustments to relationships that have become superficial or based only on satisfying the needs of ego. Chiron in Pisces reminds Venus that lasting relationships require both an understanding of other and compassion for self -- a willingness to let go of issues that don't really matter, while also knowing when we take that too far and drift into self-sacrifice or victimhood.

    Enter Uranus in Aries -- the champion of change, with the courage to blaze new trails. Through a trine to Venus, Uranus provides the inspiration and insights that will help us to be flexible, to make the changes that are needed, and also to let go of relationships that are irretrievably wounding or disempowering."

    'THE DIRECTIVE to remain as pure as possible in our thoughts and words is repeated in the Sabian symbol for the 24th degree of Virgo, the location of the New Moon:

    "Mary and her little lamb: The need to keep a vibrant and pure simplicity at the core of one's being as one meets the many tests of existence."

    The interpretation of this symbol helps clarify further:

    "Although great, spectacular and resolute efforts are needed in order to achieve one's higher goals of destiny, still the essential quality as one journeys on 'the Path' is a pure, spontaneous, fresh and nonviolent approach to all encounters. Without such a deep, heartfelt simplicity, the seeker after spiritual experience or Initiation is bound to be glamorized by successes and to see the ego feeding on the drama of struggle and victory." (from An Astrological Mandala by Dane Rudhyar)'


    http://www.iraresoul.com/parent_essays.html#1

    "Family: The Prototypical Cult

    Cults are manifestations of the worst of the family system. They adhere to the same underlying dynamics of families but replace familial depression with an alluring, grandiose face, which is why so many underdeveloped souls seeking love swim in and get ensnared in their tentacles. And uncomfortable as it is to get swallowed by the beast, it’s an old and familiar tale – an adult recreation of the child’s dilemma of needing to fit into his family at all costs in order to survive.

    In the family, parents are the cult leaders. To the child their word is law, their perceptions reality, and their definition of truth, however twisted, absolute. Parents have a power relatively greater than any the child will ever come to meet in the rest of his life. Their behavior sketches his basic template of God, and he bows before it with the passion of the devoted. And if he doesn’t bow, he gets forced to bow, and learns to accept his bondage as normal. To satisfy his needs he must bend the zeal of his personality to their limitations – that or face their rejection, which causes him a fear so basic and crippling and annihilating he cannot dare risk it. He is at their mercy, and ultimately the mercy of their maturity. If they are relatively mature he is fortunate; if not he is in serious trouble. Either way, beyond the borders of their maturity he is trapped, and they, like Jim Jones, can put whatever they want in his Kool-Aid.

    He is theirs to manipulate, and they must to the degree that their unconscious needs demand. He is born lacking a respect for their buried trauma and their desperation to heal it, and every time his honest expression of life force unknowingly triggers it he threatens them terribly. In protection of their false selves they make it their mission to break his spirit of its desire to roam free. They train him on where he is forbidden to go and they use methods employing a degree of force tailored to the extent of their denial and the extent of his passion for remaining true to his instincts. The most emotionally damaged parents manipulate and traumatize him the most, often completely brainwashing him into an emotional numbness that paves the way for extreme future exploitation.

    Unlike organized cults that have to instill some degree of psychological dependence in their followers through cruel and clever tactics, parents have it far easier, because their children are born psychologically dependent. They’re more malleable than the most needy and troubled of adults. Jim Jones, whose charisma and savvy won him heavy support from major California politicians – quite a feat! – at least had to be brilliant, persuasive, and creative to lead his followers astray. Any old fool can become a parent and manipulate his kid to kingdom come. The kid may rebel later on, but for a few good years he’s hooked through the gills.

    As the saying goes, power corrupts. Everyone not fully enlightened (myself included) is bound to act out some degree of cult leader dynamics with those over whom he wields power. This becomes especially dangerous in relationships where a greater dependency is inherent. This goes for many therapists, who cull bevies of blind devotees who progressively lose their autonomy, as well as for teachers, religious leaders, partners, bosses, 12-step sponsors, writers, and even friends. The not-fully-reflective simply cannot resist the temptation to act out when offered the chance.

    But the reflective have no choice but to resist. As their inner light leads them out of the maze of their traumas they access a long-buried spiritual kernel for a new interactive blueprint, one in which manipulating others disgusts their ethical sense. That kernel holds the essence of their honest self, a complete genetic code for a new species and new world. As they make headway toward autonomy they find themselves increasingly vaccinated against falling prey to cult leaders, because the only leader they need is the one living in their own breast. Emotional autonomy is the basic consequence of individuation from the family. Once that cult is rejected, all others are sure to follow."
    Last edited by HERO; 04-21-2013 at 11:36 AM.

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    http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_a...hp?name=Pixies

    'Bossanova [4AD/Elektra, 1990]
    Though the words are less willful, they're still mostly indecipherable without the crib sheet and still mostly incomprehensible with it--leisure-class kiddies grasping at straws (or women: Black Francis has gone through three girlfriends by cut five) as the solar system bangs and whimpers to a halt. But these collegians are obscurantists no longer. Announcing their newfound religious faith with a surf-metal instrumental ("Cecilia Ann," who's not a girlfriend though Francis loves her best of all), they march out tunes so simple and confident and power riffs so grandly declamatory that you learn to understand the choruses by singing them. The beats are lively. The three-minute songs don't bash you over the head with their punk/pop brevity. Neither do the two-minute songs. If they weren't still a little gothic-surrealist they might even be too easy--but they ain't. A'

    Eb Major (Leo)






    G# minor (Leo)

    http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_a...hp?name=The+xx

    "The xx [XL/Young Turks, 2009]
    Their minimalism is so contained that as you warm against your better judgement to the well-spaced notes, subtle depth charges, and ostinato hooks with which they couch their gentle cool, you figure that the matched female-and-male drawls the music sets off will prove unworthy of further commitment. But soon you learn that these two Southwest London 20-year-olds--to leave out their ancillary and now departed guitarist and crucial but probably not generative young producer-drummer--aren't being minimal to prove they're any shade of cool. It's more like they're being minimal because they're shy. Rather than resorting to an obscurantism they're too decent for or feigning a sophistication few achieve, they trade ideas about intimacy as contemporaries, comrades, prospects, lovers, ex-lovers, and friends. It's hard to imagine their music getting much better. But it's not hard to imagine their lives getting much better. Which may be all their music needs. A"

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    http://innerself.com/content/self-he...ious-week.html

    'THE FOUR PLANETS -- the Moon, the Sun, Mars and Venus -- are also aligned with the dwarf planet Eris, the farthest-known planet in our solar system. I've read some about this planet since its discovery in 2005, but have not explored its meaning in depth. It moves so very slowly (taking 560 years to move through all 12 zodiac signs) that it seems to be more descriptive of an era than of an individual or even of a generation.

    Still, given the focus on Eris in this New Moon chart, it will be helpful to understand a bit more about its meaning.

    ERIS has been in the sign of Aries since February 1926. This means that everyone currently living and younger than 87 years old has Eris in Aries in their birth charts.

    In Greek mythology, Eris was the goddess of strife, discord, contention and rivalry. This gives us a sense that her impact astrologically can be a bit pushy, to say the least, especially in her current location in Aries.

    I FEEL it's important to look beyond the obvious manifestations we might associate with the goddess of discord. It may be true that this week we will see some aggressions amplified -- but what does it mean for us individually, and how can we best work with this energy?

    Astrologer Lynn Koiner has been tracking Eris in her own life and in the lives of clients for a while now. Here's a bit of what she says about the effects of the planet:
    "Eris acts as a benefic if you are willing to grow and learn and integrate the lessons acquired. These new experiences become integrated into our consciousness and we are no longer the same -- some component of our personality becomes morphed over a period of time.'

    http://innerself.com/content/self-he...younghans.html

    'The Sun-Mars alignment can also manifest as irritations, impatience, recklessness and selfishness.

    The good news is that there's plenty of energy to utilize in productive ways -- it's up to each of us to find the best outlet, and to make sure we're not stepping on anyone else's toes as we're rushing out the door. The compassion represented by the Venus-Neptune sextile (exact on Thursday) should be helpful in that regard.

    I ALSO LIKE the Sabian symbol for the 29th degree of Aries, where the Sun and Mars are located at the time of their conjunction:
    "The music of the spheres: Attunement to the cosmic order."
    It is nice to consider that the projects we begin as the Sun and Mars align are not only highly energized, but also in tune with the cosmos. Here's a bit more about that symbol, from astrologer Dane Rudhyar's book "An Astrological Mandala":
    "The individual who has entered into a new realm of possibilities should learn the harmonic principles operating in this realm. The music of the spheres is the celestial embodiment of principles of polyphonic interplay. Seek to understand and realize your place in the vast scheme of human evolution, in the immense Chord of the harmony of the universe. The message is to listen to your inner voice, to listen without personalizing this Voice in a glamor-producing manner."
    No doubt if we keep this last line in mind -- "to listen without personalizing in a glamor-producing manner" -- we will be more able to sidestep some of the more selfishly-oriented possibilities of this alignment.

    NEXT WEEKEND is the time for insights, changes of mind, accessing higher consciousness, and thinking "outside of the box," even if (or especially if) those ideas go against traditional or widely-held opinions and beliefs.

    Uranus aligns with Mercury on Saturday, representing a strong collaboration between conscious mind and Higher Mind. Keep your pen and paper handy to jot down any "aha" moments. With Uranus, insights and solutions may appear suddenly, but then disappear just as quickly if not anchored in some way.

    On Sunday, when Mercury moves on to square Pluto, we may become aware that our new ideas are already pushing buttons and setting up some resistance for us to deal with. This is not meant to discourage us -- instead, it is to help empower us, as we more fully understand our own attitudes and beliefs, and how they are reflected in the world around us.'





    " . . . I'd cry a river of tears for them/The bodies floating there/Christ-like and bare/Tell me, is that fair? / And there are some things I can't forgive . . ."


    Last edited by HERO; 01-27-2021 at 12:02 PM.

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    Last edited by HERO; 01-27-2021 at 12:02 PM.

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    What do you do with your spare time agape, when you're not working as a 16types poster?

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    Well let's see... I do need to start spending more time on looking for a job... just applying for 5 jobs isn't going to cut it. My Mom's going to help me figure out how to use the Internet to look for work more... and then there's going to college or University to get the info on how I'm going to finish all the other high school courses I need to complete, and since I've already completed English 30-1 in 2012 with about 94%, that just leaves Math 10, 20, 30... I guess.

    Besides what I have to start working on, there's watching TV (The Good Wife, Revenge, The Mentalist, etc.); rocking (swaying side to side) to music while lying down, reading, composing music; trying do to paradoxical relaxation [I find it really difficult to clear my mind, relax, focus on the tension, etc.]; going to the public library, etc.

    Now for an interesting anecdote... It was early 2012, at my English 20-1 class in college [they call it academic upgrading although I never did complete English 20-1 or English 30-1 before 2012]. So somehow the subject of Barack Obama was brought up... (because of a discussion on history, American presidents?)... Anyway, an African man in his 40's? (he was originally from some country in Africa I think [I don't remember exactly], was black, had an accent) said something like Obama is very dangerous or Obama is one of the most dangerous people in the world, or something to that effect. At least two white Canadians defended Obama [the ILE teacher and the SLE-Ti masculine-identified and straight-identified guy]...

    It turns out that the African man was probably the smartest person I knew at that school. I did talk to him a few times... As it turns out, he definitely knew what he was talking about. And I was clueless. [I never actually learned the truth until recently.] Of course, Obama isn't worse than George W. Bush, yet he's only somewhat better. I guess Lloyd deMause's characterization of Obama in the past as the 'least war-like President since Eisenhower' was premature. And while George W. Bush has/had charisma and charm and comical qualities, Obama is boring... Or John McCain is superficially convincing, Obama can be superficially deceptive. None of them are really bad people. They have their ideals and their truths, but at the same time there's a lot of denial, projection, repression, dissociation, etc.

    My Aunt once said that she despises Barack Obama and that he's another face of evil. Yet later on she also wrote this:

    "To me president Obama seems another one in a long line of puppets manipulated by the dragons of capitalism: the weapons manufacturers, oil tycoons, pharmaceutical giants, junk food ogres, etc etc
    The only difference is that he is black.

    Here in Europe we hardly ever turn our attention to America, we have our own politicians who fill the stage and problems galore."


    http://innerself.com/content/self-he...younghans.html

    'Horoscope: May 6 to 12, 2013


    Thursday: Venus enters Gemini, Mercury conjunct South Node, Solar Eclipse/New Moon 5:28pm PDT
    Friday: Sun conjunct Pallas Athene
    Saturday: Mercury conjunct Pallas Athene, Sun conjunct Mercury
    Sunday: Mars conjunct South Node

    WE HAVE the second of our three eclipses this week -- a Solar Eclipse/New Moon on Thursday at 5:28pm PDT. This is an annular eclipse, which means a small rim of the Sun will be seen around the perimeter of the Moon's shadow. The eclipse will be visible in parts of Australia and from nearby islands.

    This is an important eclipse for our evolutionary growth. It carries strong energies for releasing the past and making a new start. This theme is emphasized by the proximity of several planets to the South Node -- at the time of the eclipse, Mars, Mercury, the Moon, the Sun, and Pallas Athene are all within three degrees of that karmic point.

    If you review the "highlighted aspects" list for the week, you'll see the actual alignments scattered over several days -- the Sun conjoins the South Node on Monday, Mercury steps in on Thursday, and Mars finishes up the week with its alignment on Sunday. This means we can count on the push to release old patterns and counter-productive attitudes to be strong throughout the week.

    THE NORTH AND SOUTH NODES are not planetary beings -- they are energetic points in space defined by where the Moon's orbit around the Earth intersects with the Earth's path around the Sun. Astrologer Jan Spiller has written a marvelous book about the nodes and their meanings, called Astrology for the Soul. Here's what she writes about the meaning of the South Node:

    "The South Node depicts an aspect in our character that has been overemphasized in past lives, and thus tends to take over the personality in this lifetime and throw us off balance. When we are acting without awareness, we tend to 'act out' the South Node in response to our environment because we have been accustomed to that approach working to our advantage. However, in this lifetime, our experiences show us that approaching a situation from the stance of the South Node is no longer working."

    ALTHOUGH EACH OF US may have the nodes in any of the 12 signs of the zodiac in our natal charts, the current sign location of the nodes indicates where, collectively, we all are being asked to evolve out of old patterns and attitudes. Right now, the North Node is in Scorpio and the South Node is in Taurus. We need to look at that Taurus South Node in more depth to understand a bit more about what's being asked of us with this week's eclipse.

    Again quoting from Ms. Spiller's book, here is her list of "tendencies to leave behind" when the South Node is in Taurus:

    Attachment to comfort and the status quo
    Possessiveness
    Overconcern with accumulation and ownership
    Questioning past decisions
    Stubbornness
    Getting bogged down in sensual appetites
    Repeatedly doing things one way (the hard way) even though another way is easier
    Resistance to change and others' input

    And, here is her list of "attributes to develop":

    Self-discipline
    Choosing constructive change
    Releasing whatever causes stagnation and low energy
    Eliminating nonuseful possessions
    Enjoying things without having to own them
    Accepting support from others (ideas, money, opportunities)
    Enjoying high-risk situations that make one feel alive
    Awareness of others' psychology (their desires, wants, needs, motives)
    Openness to partnering, supporting, and merging power with others

    It will be very helpful this week to observe our own tendencies in these areas. We can work with the energies of this eclipse by being willing to let go of where we hold on to the old ways, either out of fear of change or just out of sheer habit.

    AS WE RELEASE the old ways, we are more able to take advantage of the fact that a Solar Eclipse is like a mega New Moon, providing the opportunity to take powerful steps in new directions.

    This eclipse occurs in the same location as a Solar Eclipse 19 years ago, on May 10, 1994. We may gain important insights from remembering what new beginnings and changes we embraced during the first half of that year. We are now completing the cycle that began at that time, and are about to start a new 19-year cycle. The area of life where we are completing and initiating is defined at least in part by the house location of 20 degrees of Taurus in our natal charts.

    THE SABIAN SYMBOL for the eclipse location gives us hope in the positive future we are creating:

    "Wisps of winglike clouds streaming across the sky: The awareness of spiritual forces at work."

    In my experience, it is helpful whenever we can be aware of spiritual forces at work! That awareness is both calming and invigorating, in the very best of ways.

    Here's what astrologer Dane Rudhyar writes about the meaning of this symbol in his book An Astrological Mandala:

    "Any emergence of life potentialities from the depth of the vast Unconscious is answered by the spiritual activity of superconscious forces in a cosmic kind of antiphony. The individual who has taken a new step in evolution should look for the "Signature" of divine Powers confirming that progress. It may reveal the meaning of what is to come next. The 'winglike clouds' may also symbolize the presence of celestial beings, blessing and subtly revealing the direction to take, the direction of 'the wind' of destiny."

    This symbol encourages us to be especially aware of the signs and synchronicities in our everyday environment this week -- the random events, the appearance of animals and other natural phenomena, the sudden awareness of a shift in our perspective -- as direct guidance or offering insights into our best path going forward.

    WE CAN ALSO EXPECT, with the South Node strongly energized this week, to run into people or situations from our past. These can be from our past within this life, or from the longer ago "past" of other lifetimes.

    If we do meet up with our past in some respect, we can be fairly confident that it ties into the completion of the current cycle -- and may offer additional insights about where we have been resisting change and are now ready to make a breakthrough.'


    http://www.psychohistory.com/origins...hildAbuse.html

    http://www.democracynow.org/2013/4/2...ng_yemeni_says

    http://www.democracynow.org/2013/4/2...t_story_behind




    "There is no way out, the only way out is to give in/When there's was no way out, the only way out is to give in . . . How I love to give in/Here no one sleeps, one lays up while the other lies down/Where no one sleeps, one lays up while the other lies down/Ask the line on your face what the line on your hand meant/We couldn't see what was coming . . . I'm so glad that I'm an island now . . . Sickness was fixing me some/Coughed out my heart in the last stall/Now that the damage is done/I never miss it at all"



    "Monster hospital, can you please release me?/You hold my hands down, I've been bad/You hold my arms down, I've been bad/I've been bad, I've been bad/I fought the cold . . . but the war won . . . I fought the war, but the cold won't stop for the love of God . . . I fought the war, but the war won . . . I fought the war, but the war won't stop for the love of God . . . I fought the cold, but the war won"






    http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/eln03_terrorism.html

    http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/eln05_psychogenic.html

    'Upheaval Phase

    The leader begins the upheaval phase pictured as a wimp, overwhelmed by poisonous forces, impotent to ward off disaster, which is often depicted as a dangerous water-beast (poisonous placenta) along with images of floods, whirlpools and devouring mouths--media imagery similar to medieval depictions of Hell as a Devouring Demon. Anti-children crusades multiply, attacking people's projected inner child for being spoiled, sinful, greedy and out of control. When the growth panic is at a peak, "poison alerts" are declared and fears of maternal abandonment and wishes for maternal engulfment and rebirth proliferate . . . Rational national progress seems to be unimportant, group-delusions and group-trance projects are at a peak, and action becomes irresistible as the nation searches for some magical restoration of potency . . .

    (1) Regicidal Solution: If the leader fails to find an appropriate enemy, he himself can be designated as the enemy of the nation, and a ritual slaying is enacted, either by actual regicide or by throwing him out of office. Should he be re-elected at the end of his first term, a symbolic death and rebirth ritual is enacted, and the leader has more time to find a solution to the growth panic.

    (2) Martial Solution--If an external enemy can be found who will co-operate by humiliating the nation as they felt humiliated by their parents during childhood, this enemy can now be seen as the source of all their fears, and military action can be taken by the now-heroic leader in order to clear out the pollution and produce a rebirth of national strength and purpose. Wars are often preceded by apocalyptic growth panic movements, "Great Awakenings" and other end-of-the-world group-fantasies. [Charles B. Strozier, Apocalypse: On the Psychology of Fundamentalism in America. Boston: Beacon Press, 1994.] The leader is split into two parts, and the "poison" part is projected into the "enemy" leader, who agrees to engage in a mutual humiliation ritual and then fight the cosmic battle between good and evil and "flush out" the nation's fears.

    The nation feels often enormous relief by the designation of the enemy, rather than being fearful of war's destructiveness. The finding of an external enemy as a poison container produces a burst of dopamine-filled euphoria. As Churchill wrote his wife in 1914, as England prepared for war, "Everything tends toward catastrophe and collapse. I am interested, geared up and happy." Similarly, on the day President Truman decided to send U.S. troops to Korea one American wrote from Washington, D.C. that "Never before...have I felt such a sense of relief and unity pass through this city...When the President's statement was read in the House, the entire chamber rose to cheer."

    (3) Internal Sacrifice Solution--If the leader cannot find an external enemy with whom to engage in a sacrificial war, he often turns to an internal sacrifice, either a violent revolution or an economic downturn. At the end of the 1920s, for instance, as economic and social progress seemed to have gotten "out of control," world bankers--chief sacrificial priests of modern nations--pursued deflationary economic policies, trade barriers were erected and many other "mistakes" were made that were motivated to produce the Great Depression that sacrificed so much of the wealth of the world. As Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon said in 1929 as the Federal Reserve pushed the world into the Great Depression, "It will purge the rottenness out of the system." [William Greider, Secrets of the Temple: How the Federal Reserve Runs the Country. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1987, p. 300.]
    Business cycles, as William K. Joseph has shown, are driven by the manic and depressive cycles of group-fantasy,* as manic defenses against growth panic are followed by depressive collapses into emotional despair and inaction. Indeed, most death rates, car crashes, homicides, cancer, pneumonia, heart and liver diseases rise during prosperous, manic times and are lower during depressions and recessions. [Business Week, July 1, 1996, p. 22.] Only suicide (internal sacrifice) rises during economic declines, reacting to the prevailing group-fantasy need for internal sacrifice.

    * William K. Joseph, "Prediction, Psychology and Economics." The Journal of Psychohistory 15(1987): 101-112; William K. Joseph, "Will Peace Panic the Market?" The Journal of Psychohistory 16(1989): 405-409. See also Lloyd deMause, Reagan's America.


    Depressions and recessions are thus not due to "the Invisible Hand" of economics but are motivated sacrifices that often kill more people than wars do, halting dangerous prosperity and social progress that seem to be getting "out of control." That growing wealth often produces anxieties rather than happiness can be shown empirically. From 1957 to 1995, Americans doubled their income in real dollars, but the proportion of those telling pollsters that they are "very happy" declined from 35 to 29 percent. [David G. Myers and Ed Diener, "The Pursuit of Happiness." Scientific American, May 1996, p. 70.] Periodic economic downturns are the antidotes administered by sacrificial priests for the disease of "greed." Cartoons prior to economic downturns often portray greedy people being sacrificed on altars or children being pushed off cliffs, scapegoats for "greedy" childhood selves felt to be responsible for the trauma once experienced. Like Aztec human sacrifices,* recessions and depressions are accompanied by national sermons, "cautionary tales," about how sacrifices are necessary to purge the world of human sinfulness . . .'

    * Ptolemy Tompkins, This Tree Grows Out of Hell: Mesoamerica and the Search for the Magical Body. San Francisco: Harper San Francisco, 1990, p. 120.


    'Finally, with stage four, “Upheaval,” birth itself begins, and the nation looks for some crisis, usually involving war or the threat of war, to get into. The nation feels trapped, choking, claustrophobic, and must engage in a “struggle for freedom” in order to fight its way out of an intolerable situation. After a crisis situation is located, the enemy is engaged, and the nation feels strong again—and also greatly relieved, because at least it is now actively fighting something in the real world rather than passively suffering the fantasied intolerable pressures. (Political cartoons of the head hurting from painful pressures, and of the body being stretched and twisted, mark this stage.)’—Loyd deMause


    I believe America and perhaps at least one or two other countries that have less advanced child-rearing than the United States of America are currently in Fetal Stage Four ("Upheaval"), and may have been in this stage as early as 2011 (this applies specifically to USA; I haven't looked at the other countries). The last time America underwent Fetal Stage Four was from 2007-2008 (beginning of Global Financial Crisis). And before that it was around early 2003 (maybe it started in mid-2002?), which is what led up to the Iraq War.
    Last edited by HERO; 01-27-2021 at 12:04 PM.

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    "Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."

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    That siuntal...

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    Quote Originally Posted by agape
    So according to the fucking Socionics Dogma are we to assume that every single Nazi sympathizer was a Beta, and that there was not a single rescuer of Jews during the Holocaust who was Beta. Is that what I'm supposed to assume. All of ******'s followers were Beta, right?
    I think you are assuming too much of soseeeeonickkkks.

    As for what ****** could have been or was in terms of his upbringing or w/e, it happened and it's done now so it is what it is, heh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I think you are assuming too much of soseeeeonickkkks.

    As for what ****** could have been or was in terms of his upbringing or w/e, it happened and it's done now so it is what it is, heh.
    The problem is that ****** wasn't entirely exceptional or unique in regards to his upbringing. There were many people in that time period that were raised similarly (perhaps the majority had a lot more abuse than the majority in the Western world, etc.) do now. So there were a lot of people doing bad things and committing atrocities... and a lot of them probably aren't even publicized. I mean we can blame everything on one man, ******, right. He was bad (well of course he was), and everyone else was just a victim.

    But of course, now Germany's (and Austria's) child-rearing is actually more advanced than that of the United States of America, Britain, Canada, etc. So the tables have turned. We are actually the more destructive ones now, either on the world stage and/or internally (within our countries). Of course nothing on the same level as World War II Germany, yet when we see that a nation is doing better than us, we should find out what they're doing right and follow suit. Unless of course we just choose to focus on the negatives, like say how this specific national character seems kind of arrogant or conformistic...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I think you are assuming too much of soseeeeonickkkks.

    As for what ****** could have been or was in terms of his upbringing or w/e, it happened and it's done now so it is what it is, heh.
    Fuck Socionics and all Socionics Loyalists [such as the opportunistic idiots who pull off such cheap stunts like typing Eminem SLI].

    And "regarding it's done now so it is what it is"... the fact is people are still murdering for the innocence of the parents. Unconsciously (and/or consciously) they are unable to feel the gravity of what was done to them and to codemn it so they take it out on scapegoats.

    Now this can come in many forms. Not everyone will resort to something as extreme as murder, although the ones that do usually had the most traumatic childhoods without a helping witness. But if we're happy to subsist on our denial then we should have no problem that the world is full of walking time bombs who are murdering for the innocence of the parents and abusers. I guess that just makes us feel justified to be destructive in our own ways.

    It's sort of hypocritical for people to tell me how I need to be more centred, caring, kind, etc. when so many of them have been mean, rude, hateful, etc. with people for stupid reasons. No one lectured them when they acted that way. I guess if you're born in North America or Britain, it's justified. They can say bad things about each other behind their backs, but out in the open they act all neutral or friendly.

    I mean how rude is it when a doctor at my Mom's work jokes that "she's from Chechnya" when she isn't. I mean, you see what we have to put up with. And then again there's me, and the fact that I still have somewhat of an accent. 'So how is it that you came to Canada when you were seven months old and you still have an accent?' How am I supposed to explain that... that approaching and during adolescence I isolated more and spent more time by myself and with my Mom... who has an accent (and of course my former stepdad from Portugal also had an accent). I mean with strangers in the past, if people believed that I just came here a few years ago or whatever... I didn't tell them that my Mom immigrated with me when I was seven months old, because what's the point.

    Last edited by HERO; 05-13-2013 at 02:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agape View Post
    Fuck Socionics and all Socionics Loyalists [such as the opportunistic idiots who pull off such cheap stunts like typing Eminem SLI].
    Unfathomable. Truly, I'm sorry for your loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agape View Post
    Fuck Socionics and all Socionics Loyalists
    Sounds like an offer. Your full height photo is appreciated, at least for the beginning.

    I mean how rude is it when a doctor at my Mom's work jokes that "she's from Chechnya" when she isn't.
    What's wrong with Chechnya? Nice place, really.

    And then again there's me, and the fact that I still have somewhat of an accent.
    It's normal. Most people on Earth have an accent talking English.
    One guy with an accent

    even ruled my country for 30 years and rather successfuly.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Betas are guilty of everything agape, sorry very much truly you have to stand witness to such accusations. Please, accept my condolences.

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    So you're saying that types from other quadras never abuse their children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agape View Post
    So you're saying that types from other quadras never abuse their children.
    I would really want to see where I wrote that.

    What I'm saying is Ni/Se quadras are completely nuts - everywhere psychic mass murderers.

    So accept my condolences once again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I would really want to see where I wrote that.

    What I'm saying is Ni/Se quadras are completely nuts - everywhere psychic mass murderers.

    So accept my condolences once again.
    I can think of some self typed Ne/Si types on this site who are completely nuts.

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    I dunno agape i'm not a psychologist but I know people who've had shitty childhoods and turned out to be caring individuals. I don't really care what hitta is or isn't.

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    Yeah, but those people usually had a helping witness. And/or they haven't repressed so much of their major (early) childhood traumas... so they can remember some of their most major traumas... Not everyone does. And/or they are so dissociated that people think they're good, yet they still do destructive things that many people don't notice or don't see as such. Or there was enough love, caring, etc. shown by the parents, etc. to temper or compensate for all the forms of abuse that were also experienced due to parents or other people (physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, etc.). Of course there are also people with Narcissistic Personality disorder who can seem caring and friendly. Of course they were often very abused by their parents too.


    - 'I described ******’s childhood in my book For Your Own Good, and many of my readers were aghast. One woman wrote: “If ****** had had five sons he could have vented his revenge on for the tortures he was subjected to in his childhood, then he would probably never have victimized the Jewish people. You can take everything you’ve suffered out on your own children and never get punished because murdering the soul of your own child can always be passed off as parenting, child-raising, upbringing.”

    Not all my readers were able to accept this view of ****** and concede that his terrifying example demonstrates how evil comes about, how tiny, innocent children can turn into ravening beasts threatening not only their own families but the whole world. I was reminded that many children get beaten and otherwise abused in childhood, but they do not all turn into mass murderers. I took these arguments seriously and investigated the question of how children can survive brutal treatment without becoming criminals later in life. From a close study of many biographies, I established that in those cases where the victim did not turn into a victimizer, there was invariably some figure that had shown the child affection, the person I call the helping witness. Children with helping witnesses to turn to were able to gain awareness of the evil that had been done to them while at the same time identifying with the person who had shown them kindness.' -- Alice Miller

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    This was from 2006:

    'The rates of physical child abuse in the U.K. are about the same as those of the U.S.,* but far higher than the rates of most other West European nations. [Susan J. Creighton, "Prevalence and Incidence of Child Abuse: International Comparisons." NSPCC Information Briefings, April 2004, www.nspcc.org.uk/inform
    / Brian Corby, Child Abuse: Towards a Knowledge Base.] In the past 25 years, 16 European nations have outlawed the corporal punishment of children, and the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe has recently called upon all the other European nations to make Europe "a corporal punishment-free zone for children." Hungary, the Netherlands, the Slovak Republic and Slovenia are about to join the abolitionist states, and others are considering doing so.

    * Murray A. Straus, "Corporal Punishment by Parents: The Cradle of Violence in the Family and Society." Virginia Journal of Social Policy and the Law 8(2000): 18.

    The results of outlawing the hitting of children are dramatic. In Sweden, the first country to abolish corporal punishment of children by everyone, public support for hitting children— even in its mildest forms — has been reduced from 53% to only 11%. In addition, only 6% of younger Swedes today say they support corporal punishment. [Joan E. Durrant, "A Generation Without Smacking: The Impact of Sweden's Ban on Physical Punishment." London: Save the Children, 2000, p. 6.] More importantly, practice as well as attitude has changed, with only 3% of school children today reporting they had been slapped by their parents, and only one child in 25 years having been killed by their parent. The results of this dramatic decrease in hitting have been spectacular. The number of children needing social work care has decreased by 26%, the number of youth convicted of theft declined by 21%, the rates of alcohol and drug abuse by youths have declined dramatically, and the rate of youth suicide has declined.

    What is most astonishing is that in Sweden and in other countries that presently outlaw the hitting of children the populations actually began by being in favor of corporal punishment, but after their legislatures passed their anti-hitting law despite this pro-hitting mood the public gradually became more and more opposed to corporal punishment. This happened without any dramatic intrusion by the state into family life. There was simply a shift in what had been considered a "good" parent from one who used what was termed "appropriate corporal punishment" (as in the current British debate as to what is "reasonable chatisement" of little children) to one in which professionals could feel comfortable in recommending alternative methods without being experienced as trespassing on private family matters. Advisors to parents from British social agencies and children's centers can leave behind their usual time-consuming legal battles and instead provide parents with what the Swedes call "a contact person…whose role it is to provide friendship and support to the family on a voluntary, preventive basis." [Joan E. Durrant, "A Generation Without Smacking: The Impact of Sweden's Ban on Physical Punishment." London: Save the Children, 2000, p. 19.]

    -- Lloyd deMause

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    " . . . Yeah, it might not be written in [fucking] Maclean's / That your free glorified land has become a wolf inside a sheep / It's not the year of the rat / We don't say it out loud / There are no headlines when a First Nations girl or boy gets raped / It's not the lack of a sense / It's called ambivalence . . . And up on the hill / Is the best real estate / Maybe just to get in / You have to sell off your faith / 'Cause in the valley below /There is crack and young girls / But you don't have to believe what stays out of your world / It's not the year of the rat / We don't say it out loud / There are no headlines when innocent people are killed by drones / It's not the lack of a sense / It's called ambivalence"
    Last edited by HERO; 05-13-2013 at 12:07 AM.

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    Thank you very much for interrupting my subtle dealings in this thread, Words.

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    I like this new found tact of yours, Absurd

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