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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Default Subcultures and quadras/types

    My life as an extreme extrovert and social chameleon has made me acquainted with many subcultures and I've swam through genres like a.. thing that swims fluently.
    Here are my observations about the average quadra/type correlation in subcultures:

    Hipsters are pretty delta, maybe some alphas
    Punk rockers are beta mostly, although the political anarcho idealists are usually alpha. There are some gammas as well and they will call you a fashion punk rocker or a wannabe if you don't have the right kinda gear, diet and band patches.
    Crust rockers are gamma/beta
    Local heavy metal people are alpha/beta.
    Hippies are very varied, I will try to make more categories for hippy subtypes
    Skinheads are beta
    Goths are beta/gamma, some cybergoths are alpha
    Demoscene sounds fucking alpha, but I don't know too many of them
    Industrial and sXe seem Se/Ni


    These are my own observations from the local subcultures.

    And don't go around waving the not type related card or I'll type you as a spoilsport. Maybe some things aren't type related but there are correlations we can think of. Trying to dismiss a theory is unconstructive and unscientific approach to the allegation of the existence of a correlation. And, no, we have no firm scientific means of verifying a socionics theory, but if you were looking for such, the fuck are you doing here?

    I also don't want to witness the "I am (/my friend is) A type and part of Z subculture although you said Zs are B and C types; therefore you must be wrong" argument. I SPEAK IN GENERALIZATIONS, DEAL WITH IT. This is not to say that I am not interested on your views on the matter, naturally, even if they would contain you and your subculture to back up the allegation.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    And don't go around waving the not type related card or I'll type you as a spoilsport. Maybe some things aren't type related but there are correlations we can think of. Trying to dismiss a theory is unconstructive and unscientific approach to the allegation of the existence of a correlation. And, no, we have no firm scientific means of verifying a socionics theory, but if you were looking for such, the fuck are you doing here?

    I also don't want to witness the "I am (/my friend is) A type and part of Z subculture although you said Zs are B and C types; therefore you must be wrong" argument. I SPEAK IN GENERALIZATIONS, DEAL WITH IT. This is not to say that I am not interested on your views on the matter, naturally, even if they would contain you and your subculture to back up the allegation.
    Heh, attack is the best form of defense. Not that I don't agree with what you said.
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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    Heh, attack is the best form of defense. Not that I don't agree with what you said.
    It was a pre-emptive strike. I do this a lot in IRL too, noticed?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Cool idea, I too have walked a variety of sociocultural paths...

    Electro/Rave scene is decidedly Alpha/Beta

    Surface drug culture is very Democratic, Alpha/Gamma, just some light hustling and connection-building...

    Heavier druggy culture is mostly Beta/Gamma typically; haven't met many Si/Ne types who get deep in the scene; people higher up, and also those using more illegal/powerful/addictive substances, tend to be much more selective and reclusive

    Hippie/festy scene is varied, but predominantly Alpha>Delta>Gamma IMO; there are some noticeable patches of Betas in the festy scene but these are frequently also electro/rave scene kids

    Fire spinners are kind of a subset of hippy/festy scene, seems to have an Aristocratic bent

    Hipsters seem mostly Alphas, some Deltas and Betas, rarely Gammas IME

    Upward Mobility black people are generally Alpha/Beta; there are Deltas and Gammas that fit the mold but don't really embody the ethos.

    Industrial scene is definitely Beta/Gamma

    Goths are mostly Alpha/Beta, some overlap with industrial and metal scenes

    Metal scene seems decidedly Alpha from what I've seen

    Tech geek culture is largely Alpha, although there is bleed with hifi culture which is rather Delta

    Southern ghetto white trash redneck culture is Beta/Gamma, those fucks know how to stick together and they party hard as hell; ICP is big, and ICP has probably the most fanatically loyal fans of any musical phenomenon ever, period.

    Deep south rednecks are more Gamma/Delta; don't fuck with their guns or booze

    High class southern culture is Delta as hell

    Bostonian culture is Delta as hell, Boston is kind of your stereotypical "big city with a small town feel," lots of old timers and good ole boys, everything is business as usual

    New England culture is Gamma/Delta; money decides your place, connections determine your rank; personality takes a back seat unless you're a real spark

    Midwestern culture is Delta

    ...

    *shudder*

    Oregon/Portlander culture is waaaaaaay Alpha, everyone is super nice but luckily it's not overly fake yet

    California seems to trend from Alpha to Beta as you head south towards LA.



    Broader observations:

    Canadian culture seems Alpha-esque.

    Indian culture is Gamma/Delta; mostly just Te/Fi as shit

    Black culture is hugely Aristocratic, although it is trending towards Democracy

    White "culture" seems to be Delta/Gamma, mostly Democratic assumptions but also appeals to the system.

    Japanese culture is Alpha since WWII

    European culture seems Democratic
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    PS this is a pretty unabashedly Aristocratic activity, in case you were still having trouble with your type...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Very nice, Gilly, very nice indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    PS this is a pretty unabashedly Aristocratic activity, in case you were still having trouble with your type...
    QFT
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
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    My attempt:
    - Hard & Heavy generally ST, Delta and Beta.
    - Black Metal - Beta (not to say that there are no influent bands of other flavors, i.e. Satyricon Alpha, Emperor Gamma, or Darkthrone Delta).
    - Punk - Delta all the way IMO. I disagree with the OP that punk is Beta-Alpha, classical punk is a reaction to anything that could be called style, rules, aesthetic, ideal. Later stylistic variations (i.e. Post-Punk, some Goth) are indeed rather Beta.
    - Skinhead - Aristocratic (Beta/Delta).
    - Goth - fully Ni Valuing - Beta & Gamma.
    - Electronic - hmmm this is a broad field that means a lot of things, but I'd say Alpha, then Gamma, rather not Delta. I know many NTs in the field, you know, synthetizers, samplers, processors, etc.
    - Hip-Hop - can't tell, maybe all the quadras.

    In general:
    - Avantgarde of any sort is Ni. (FTR, processing the concept of "avant-garde" comes exclusively through Ni, as do concepts such as "destiny", "progress" and "evolution" in some respects, "next-generation", "futuristic", etc)
    - Old-school is IMO Si/Ne.
    - Experimental, when not avant-garde is rather Ne. The two are almost always confused, but they differ radically: members of avantgarde movements play an active role in innovation, attitude is a priori, premeditated. Experimental is not a movement, but spontaneous groups that appear around some new ideas that are initially backward compatible, not necessarily "different", but just new.
    - Established, renown is Se. Not the same thing with old-school; while old-school comes naturally and just sticks, established styles are here to stay and promoted.
    - Underground is IMO related to Irrational attitude, but also to Intuition for different reasons (see avantgarde and experimental). However, lately there are two types of underground, true underground, which is adhered to spontaneously, and this media acclaimed "underground" which in fact is mainstream, except it has underground roots, people join it purposefully, just because they heard of it, instead of the ideas they relate to, which happen to be less popular. Aristocratic and Ethical undergrounders often loathe mainstream just because it is mainstream.
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    &papu silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    PS this is a pretty unabashedly Aristocratic activity, in case you were still having trouble with your type...
    that's not aristocracy - that's the social instinct: link

    you're both sx/so

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    that's not aristocracy - that's the social instinct: link

    you're both sx/so
    Two pseudo-psychological theories having different terms for the same thing?

    NOT POSSIBLE

    BRAIN EXPLODING
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Another good example is Aquagraph's self-title, which he's had for a while "Decadent Charlatan." Now if he was with his group of friends, he might barely even think of himself in this way, because there's a good chance they are all a bit like him. But he knows where he stands "in the big picture;" he recognizes the difference in groups. When he's in the group of friends, he's probably not any more "decadent" or depraved than they are, and so he doesn't go around CLAIMING it, but he knows that, to an international audience on an internet forum, this is how he will appear.

    It's more about "group sensibility" than anything; Aristocrats just have a more natural sense of where they stand in relation to a group. They make really good corporate climbers or entertainers because these areas have established (if sometimes implicit) codes of behavior and methods of operation. It's always easy for me to blend with a group like this because I can look around and see what roles people fill, and either see where the opportunity is to make a unique niche for myself, or fill an existing vacuum if it's something I'm capable of.

    On the flip side, Democrats are more at home in areas like social networking that involve one-to-one contacts without any preconceived notion of status or rank; insurance sales, freelance work, and starting a business are things that come to mind. This kind of thing feels awkward and forced to me because it feels as though it has no social context, no rules, no boundaries, and without prior assessment of the person's knowledge or capabilities, it feels hard to make a judgment.

    It's just two different styles of thinking; they aren't as DRASTIC in terms of its manifestations as some of the language might lead you to think it is, but IMO the democratic/aristocratic attitudes seem to me to be some of the most integral and obviously extant pieces of Socionics theory.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    It's funny, strrrng is decidedly sx/sp and yet he and I have such "aristocratic" discussions constantly.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    UG urban area hip hoppers are beta. You know the ones that are very spesific about where they hail from and wear their pride like some kinda redneckish crown.

    Old punk (Ramones, Clash etc) is delta, new hardcore punk is more beta.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    &papu silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Two pseudo-psychological theories having different terms for the same thing?

    NOT POSSIBLE

    BRAIN EXPLODING
    i kno rite?

    turns out it's not aristocracy since there are plenty of betas and deltas typing as so-last

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    It's funny, strrrng is decidedly sx/sp and yet he and I have such "aristocratic" discussions constantly.
    or may be he is sx/so too and not "decidedly" sx/sp, or he may be just adapting in conversation to you

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    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Midwestern culture is Delta

    ...

    *shudder*
    I actually like this. There's something about people from the Midwest that I admire, like they have a strong internal locus of control and sense of personal responsibility.

    Edo/Tokugawa Japan has seemed stereotypically Delta to me, with Heisei era verging much more Alpha-ey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    It's more about "group sensibility" than anything; Aristocrats just have a more natural sense of where they stand in relation to a group. They make really good corporate climbers or entertainers because these areas have established (if sometimes implicit) codes of behavior and methods of operation. It's always easy for me to blend with a group like this because I can look around and see what roles people fill, and either see where the opportunity is to make a unique niche for myself, or fill an existing vacuum if it's something I'm capable of.
    This still sounds like an so stacking thing. I do have a sense of group delineations, but I've never been able to successfully ingratiate myself within any group in terms of image or collectivity. I've been on the fringe of pretty much every group I've been in, and to see people defining themselves by the roles they fulfill within the group environment has always rubbed off as disingenuous to me.
    Last edited by Galen; 02-18-2012 at 07:58 PM.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I actually like this. There's something about people from the Midwest that I admire, like they have a strong internal locus of control and sense of personal responsibility.

    Edo/Tokugawa Japan has seemed stereotypically Delta to me, with Heisei era verging much more Alpha-ey.


    This still sounds like an so stacking thing. I do have a sense of group delineations, but I've never been able to successfully ingratiate myself within any group in terms of image or collectivity. I've been on the fringe of pretty much every group I've been in, and to see people defining themselves by the roles they fulfill within the group environment has always rubbed off as disingenuous to me.
    Well...no offense dude but...you're gay, and probably have a level of social hesitation that makes it harder to integrate.

    I'm surprised you say this about people defining themselves according to role; Delta Rationals strike me as more prone to this than any other grouping.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  17. #17
    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well...no offense dude but...you're gay, and probably have a level of social hesitation that makes it harder to integrate.

    I'm surprised you say this about people defining themselves according to role; Delta Rationals strike me as more prone to this than any other grouping.
    b&d I told you to stop talking to me


    In all seriousness though, I've never seen any insecurity about my sexuality as something limiting me from being social. My issue has always been with seeing group energy as a singular entity in and of itself, with individuals defining themselves as group members first and foremost. My dad's family is a lot like this: whenever they get together for a reunion, there's always at least one mention of "what it's like to be a Borson." This generally means telling the same shitty joke for the fifth time at a dinner table, only to have it met with the same level uproarious laughter the past four times. Aside from how unfunny they all are, what gets me more is that the shitty joke-telling is seen as group identity; were it just an idiosyncratic quirk specific to a few of them I wouldn't mind as much at all, but since they attach it to a group label I just can't bring myself to connect or care.

    For this reason, I've always connected more with my mom's side of the family more. While they definitely interact with each other on a regular basis, there's never any talk about the roles they fill in the collective. Much more emphasis on ongoings of the individuals involved, as they pertain to the individual person. Anything less than that is just unrelatable to me. Pretty much all of my group interactions aren't for supporting a feeling of community or group belonging (neither of which I've really felt before). What I get out groups is solely dependent on the individuals present, so with more people I like as one-on-one interactions present, the more I'll get out of a group. But it's really difficult for me, if not just impossible, to take these groups of people and essentially consolidate their energy down into a single group identity which I adhere myself to.

    For what it's worth both sides of my family are almost entirely Alphas by my reckoning, with dad's side verging more on so>sx and mom's being sx>so.

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    expired Lotus's Avatar
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    that was a verY interesting post, galen.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    b&d I told you to stop talking to me


    In all seriousness though, I've never seen any insecurity about my sexuality as something limiting me from being social. My issue has always been with seeing group energy as a singular entity in and of itself, with individuals defining themselves as group members first and foremost. My dad's family is a lot like this: whenever they get together for a reunion, there's always at least one mention of "what it's like to be a Borson." This generally means telling the same shitty joke for the fifth time at a dinner table, only to have it met with the same level uproarious laughter the past four times. Aside from how unfunny they all are, what gets me more is that the shitty joke-telling is seen as group identity; were it just an idiosyncratic quirk specific to a few of them I wouldn't mind as much at all, but since they attach it to a group label I just can't bring myself to connect or care.

    For this reason, I've always connected more with my mom's side of the family more. While they definitely interact with each other on a regular basis, there's never any talk about the roles they fill in the collective. Much more emphasis on ongoings of the individuals involved, as they pertain to the individual person. Anything less than that is just unrelatable to me. Pretty much all of my group interactions aren't for supporting a feeling of community or group belonging (neither of which I've really felt before). What I get out groups is solely dependent on the individuals present, so with more people I like as one-on-one interactions present, the more I'll get out of a group. But it's really difficult for me, if not just impossible, to take these groups of people and essentially consolidate their energy down into a single group identity which I adhere myself to.

    For what it's worth both sides of my family are almost entirely Alphas by my reckoning, with dad's side verging more on so>sx and mom's being sx>so.
    See, THAT kind of thing is DEFINITELY so oriented. Feeling a sense of "belonging" and wanting to be "part of the group" are majorly so instinctual things.

    However that's not really the kind of group sensibility I'm talking about and I would agree its unrelated to Aristocracy.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Broader observations:

    Canadian culture seems Alpha-esque.

    Indian culture is Gamma/Delta; mostly just Te/Fi as shit

    Black culture is hugely Aristocratic, although it is trending towards Democracy

    White "culture" seems to be Delta/Gamma, mostly Democratic assumptions but also appeals to the system.

    Japanese culture is Alpha since WWII

    European culture seems Democratic
    war-Germany: Beta to the max
    modern Germany: Alpha/Beta mix (?)

    western Germany stereotype: Gamma
    eastern Germany stereotype: Delta (among eastern Germans)

    Bavaria: Beta
    northern Germany: Delta
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    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
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    Some hopefully constructive objections to some opinions:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    war-Germany: Beta to the max
    modern Germany: Alpha/Beta mix (?)
    I find modern Germany no that extreme, but still Beta. When you compare it to other countries... I know a German LII guy I worked with, who told me he would like to live in a more open-minded country, he said Finland would do the trick. He has never been there, though, and I don't know exactly why Finland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Hipsters seem mostly Alphas, some Deltas and Betas, rarely Gammas IME
    I think either this is totally wrong or we use a different definitions for hispters. For instance I would agree with you if to you hipster means someone who never takes initiative to promote trends in society, but then joins such things without a clue where they are truly coming from. Otherwise no, it's almost the other way around: Gamma > Beta & Delta > Alpha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Canadian culture seems Alpha-esque.
    I think Canadian society is Fi oriented. Human rights and preaching are prioritary and tries to keep people in line, civilized and politically-correct. Pretty much like Sweden. Now I've been to Sweden and I could say that the Joe next door seems rather Alpha: average people are pretty modest, simple, open and very intelligent - they have awareness about things that in other countries are rather limited to the intellectuals, in my opinion, like detailed understanding of different cultures, politics, environment issues, science. But on a higher level IMO they are forced to support political correctness - you know, multiculturalism, issues about disadvantaged people and discrimination, etc. It does not really look possible to evidentiate oneself and not give a shit about others there, each man is a piece of the system and you can do only what you are allowed to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    European culture seems Democratic
    On the contrary, I think it is Aristocratic. I am not sure we are talking about the same thing, but I'm talking about the European society. Here there are a lot of traditions and rules, some countries are quite nationalistic - Hungary, Italy, Ireland, just to name a few.
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    This thread makes me feel sort of claustrophobic and weirded out because this categorization and the typing of groups/countries/regions/entities seems so limiting and non-productive. I realize that it's just fun and games and I am not asking to stop doing it if you feel so inclined, but I strongly feel that groups do not have types.

    Between the ages of 16-25 (roughly), I frequently hung out at an alternative coffee shop full of leftist activists, punks, old (and new) hippies, stoners, etc. It was this big family of people who were looking for an inclusive place to hang out. Everyone except racists/neo-nazis, etc. were welcome and treated nicely and with respect because the space united everyone. People would play games, pool, cards, drink, talk, organize, mobilize, etc. My point is that I could not for the life of me put this bunch of people or any subgroup thereof into a quadra. I also think that doing so, perpetuates stereotypes (if you fight the establishment you must be beta, blablabla). I mean, I might be a boring delta moralizer now, but when I was 17, I fought the establishment with more conviction than any self-proclaimed "I am so edgy and different, I must be beta" person on here. I wrote poetry, too. Perhaps I am IEI?

    This thread is fine, don't get me wrong. But seriously, the stereotypes are getting old. It's boring and stuck in its ways, it must be delta? Rednecks are delta? Seriously? Sometimes this place feels like the escapist vision of people with extremely boring lives who need an outlet to make themselves believe that since they are a certain type, their life is exciting by default.

    Tbh, it's been pissing me off more and more lately and I think I am just using this thread to vent. Don't mind me.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
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    I think this for some, is a lot about realizing the models inside one's head. The stereotypes exist already, if we want to fight against them, let's make a joke of it. I live to break the stereotype in my life and to seek information that goes against the stereotype.

    If it sounds limiting, you should see the tongue in cheek attitude me and Gilly are probably having as we smirk in front of our computer screens, writing about HOW ALL Xs MUST BE Ys.
    OH AND IF YOU DON'T GET IT YOU CAN'T BE DELTAN AS DELTANS ARE ARISTOCRATIC, HERE HAS A DICHOTOMY IN THE FORM OF A RESTRICTIVE BOX.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    This thread makes me feel sort of claustrophobic and weirded out because this categorization and the typing of groups/countries/regions/entities seems so limiting and non-productive. I realize that it's just fun and games and I am not asking to stop doing it if you feel so inclined, but I strongly feel that groups do not have types.

    Between the ages of 16-25 (roughly), I frequently hung out at an alternative coffee shop full of leftist activists, punks, old (and new) hippies, stoners, etc. It was this big family of people who were looking for an inclusive place to hang out. Everyone except racists/neo-nazis, etc. were welcome and treated nicely and with respect because the space united everyone. People would play games, pool, cards, drink, talk, organize, mobilize, etc. My point is that I could not for the life of me put this bunch of people or any subgroup thereof into a quadra. I also think that doing so, perpetuates stereotypes (if you fight the establishment you must be beta, blablabla). I mean, I might be a boring delta moralizer now, but when I was 17, I fought the establishment with more conviction than any self-proclaimed "I am so edgy and different, I must be beta" person on here. I wrote poetry, too. Perhaps I am IEI?

    This thread is fine, don't get me wrong. But seriously, the stereotypes are getting old. It's boring and stuck in its ways, it must be delta? Rednecks are delta? Seriously? Sometimes this place feels like the escapist vision of people with extremely boring lives who need an outlet to make themselves believe that since they are a certain type, their life is exciting by default.

    Tbh, it's been pissing me off more and more lately and I think I am just using this thread to vent. Don't mind me.
    Hey hey hey, you know you are my Kimmy and you don't fall under that level of Delta lameness

    But seriously, quadras are such abstract, multi-faceted and yet coherent concepts that its very easy to use them in generalizing. It seems only fitting, to me, to relate big ideas to big ideas; its one thing to type a person and see what quadra they are, but people are individuals who have idiosyncrasies and quirks and they are never as "pure" of examples. However when you lump people together you can isolate the salient traits easily and see what the real distinguishing commonalities are. In that sense I think its even less "dangerous" to type groups of people than it is to type people, because obviously not all of the people in stated groups are the SAME. It doesn't work as well to call one person an exemplar of a "quadra," first of all because they can only be one type, but also because with a group, variance is taken for granted, assumed entirely due to the size of the sample, whereas with an individual its easier to tale, say, one personality trait or instance of behavior and blow it out of proportion.

    That said, cool it with the indirect pot shots, yo....
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Midwestern culture is Delta
    Hell yes! (Great observations in this thread too -- from all different viewpoints.)

    I'm thinking about Socionics tonight, deciding whether or not to take a job in the Midwest… My biggest reservation is: of all the places I've lived, there's nowhere I've felt so much like a fish out of water. (There's no ghetto in this decaying northeast megapolis that scares me as much as anywhere in Nebraska except Lincoln -- and that includes Bridgeport, Connecticut.)

    I enjoyed going to college in the Midwest, but it was in the first suburb north of Chicago… The vibe's closer to DC than anywhere in Nebraska (except Lincoln, which is pretty cool… College town.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    New England culture is Gamma/Delta; money decides your place, connections determine your rank; personality takes a back seat unless you're a real spark
    True -- although it's changing, it seems, as our parents' generation cedes control… There are a lot more betas in Boston (gentrification) and in WMass/Connecticut (demographics trending Hispanic) than at any time I can remember, perhaps ever… And there's the potential, IMO.

    P.S. About Germany… On the flip side of what I wrote about the Midwest, of all the places I've lived, I felt most at home in Cologne… Generalizing, it was a Gamma city with a Beta subculture -- that's how I perceived Germany, in general… But maybe that's b/c I only lived in that one city.

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    I think that's bull.

    I'm Delta and I felt like a fish out of water in the midwest as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I think that's bull.

    I'm Delta and I felt like a fish out of water in the midwest as well.
    What's bull?

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    How about nerds (computer kids) geeks (fans of StarWars etc) dorks (err gamers?) etc? Id say there all alpha first with a bit of delta?

    that said, one encountergroep a lot of different types in thise subgroups...

    ((I kinds always identity alpha as the nerds . ))

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    How about nerds (computer kids) geeks (fans of StarWars etc) dorks (err gamers?) etc? Id say there all alpha first with a bit of delta?

    that said, one encountergroep a lot of different types in thise subgroups...

    ((I kinds always identity alpha as the nerds . ))
    I have observed that Alphas are just as you describe, however, delta is more into LARP and Cosplay.

    A lot of Gamma NTs are really into tabletop role play, which is how they end up meeting their opposing quarta , as Alphas tend towards an interest in that stuff too. (That would be the club of researchers.) But gammas tend to like tabletop RPG better than alphas do. (Alphas seem to be into computer RPGs more.) Some gammas seem to like miniatures, and also like model building and remote control toys.

    Betas tend to meet alphas in martial arts. However all types seem to be there. Gammas tend to do martial arts as "display" (something ego driven and a tad bit controlling like an ethical "guru"), betas are into glorious competition, deltas as deluded self-defense and alphas as a type of "mental chess."

    Danish LARP

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    I have observed that Alphas are just as you describe, however, delta is more into LARP and Cosplay.

    A lot of Gamma NTs are really into tabletop role play, which is how they end up meeting their opposing quarta , as Alphas tend towards an interest in that stuff too. (That would be the club of researchers.) But gammas tend to like tabletop RPG better than alphas do. (Alphas seem to be into computer RPGs more.) Some gammas seem to like miniatures, and also like model building and remote control toys.

    Betas tend to meet alphas in martial arts. However all types seem to be there. Gammas tend to do martial arts as "display" (something ego driven and a tad bit controlling like an ethical "guru"), betas are into glorious competition, deltas as deluded self-defense and alphas as a type of "mental chess."

    Danish LARP


    awesome post!

    i like tabletop RPGs above computer ones (the social aspect, but mainly because they're more flexible than computer ones)

    i also just started warhammer, so I probably should prepare myself for gammas

    lol and I actually practice ma as a from of strategic aggression (very close to your "mental chess" concept

    will check your video later, although I've always felt a sense of disdain for larpers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    awesome post!

    i like tabletop RPGs above computer ones (the social aspect, but mainly because they're more flexible than computer ones)

    i also just started warhammer, so I probably should prepare myself for gammas

    lol and I actually practice ma as a from of strategic aggression (very close to your "mental chess" concept

    will check your video later, although I've always felt a sense of disdain for larpers
    This is a better and shorter video of the same LARP group. The "hero" seems to be a IEE delta type... reminds me of Galen.

     
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    Actually, If I am going to spend that type of money to play a game, I would want an action team sport like Lacrosse.

     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
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    Hipsters - Delta/Alpha>Beta
    Skateboarding - Aristocracy. DIY, self-isolating, virtue in poverty, store/brand loyalty, 'locals' who send out bad vibes. I think the way I'm describing it might be more east coast centric though.
    Vice Magazine - Alpha>>Beta
    Last edited by suedehead; 07-20-2014 at 11:50 AM.

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    Hipsters - Beta ST or Gamma SF
    Punk rockers - alpha (NT usually).
    Heavy metal people - alpha/beta.
    Hippies- Delta NF
    Skinheads - no idea
    Goths - Beta NF

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    I'm not sure which side of this I stand on. I communicate with most people on the same level. The world seems vast and I mostly see crowds, and people moving from place-to-place. If there's any constant, it's movement. People work and use institutions/resources for their benefit when they need to. People leave clubs or circles, move from town to town, from city to city, transfer colleges. None of its sacred. It's all fluid, temporary and circumstantial. I don't like thinking of myself as inherently special. But I've also made generalizations before, and the fact that I've sort of bought into the idea of 'quadras' in the first place could be aristocratic.
    Last edited by suedehead; 07-20-2014 at 06:10 PM.

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    Urban Hipsters- Beta NF or Alpha

    Nature Hipsters- Delta

    Metal Hipsters- Gamma

    -Really everyone wanted to be a hipster for a while and it's a broad enough culture to incorporate all types. As a general rule Hipsters who are really into novelty (such as handlebar mustaches and what not) are Ne/Si while those who are just trying to be ahead of the cultural curve are Se/Ni. It's easy to figure out who is who when you talk to them for a while.

    Punks- Beta/Alpha- Probably some Gammas in there somewhere too

    Metalheads- Gamma/Delta.

    Goths- Not very common anymore but probably Beta. Really just the precursor to Emos.

    Emos- Beta NF

    White people who dress like they belong in the Backstreet boys and exclusively listen to popular R&B- Very Beta and Alpha SF (Don't ask me why this is a thing but it is-- see Blake Lewis or white guys on American Idol who like R&B)

    Rednecks/Outdoorsmen- Delta

    Computer/Anime nerds- Alpha with some Beta in there too.

    Frat Bros- Tons of Se and Fe. A mix of Beta and Gamma Extroverts usually. Sometimes they have hipster influence and can be a little Ne-ish.

    In my experience the Aristocratic quadras love being part of a subculture.
    Last edited by Contra; 07-22-2014 at 12:50 AM.

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