Differences between Fi and Fe: Your Interpretation

[717495]

Fe: cynic, expect worse of people, surprised when people are caring and compassionate to someone else because they expect the worse of people
Fi: idealist, think and expect positively of people, surprised when people behave callously

Hahaha

I think maritsa got the first point.

[Trevor]

no.

[anndelise]

In note format, please forgive formatting errors:

3. What does Fi ultimately seek to do? What is the purpose of this information element? How is this purpose achieved?

Fi, as with other elements, is one way in which we attempt to make sense of the world around us, including the world within ourselves.

Fi, like Ti, is a method of discovering and communicating perceived relationships between things, people, and events.

Fi's method utilizes perceptions of emotional and cognitive impacts that occur when relating at least one TPE to another TPE.

1. How do you interpret Fi? Provide examples of this in real life and how you felt when interacting with someone that was clearly utilizing Fi.

Since Fi types are oriented to relational emotional/cognitive impact, their words/actions will often reflect such. This might include
a sense of being orientated 'towards vs away from ' a TPE.

• This might be their own orientation to a given TPE,
  And/Or their perception of a TPE's orientation to another TPE.
  
  Related emotions
  
  • Like/dislike
    Fear
    Concern
    Curiosity
    Confusion
    Etc
  
  From these orientations, we get related values.
  
  A sense of intensity of the impact
  
  • Such as a range between hatred-repulsed-dislike-neutral-like-love

Fi types will often relate how one TPE reminds them of another TPE, which reminds them of another TPE.
This chain of relationships between the TPE is based on some similarity of the emotional/cognitive impacts each TPE effected, rather than any explicit similarities. In fact, if asked for how these TPE are explicitely related to each other, the Fi type might have difficulty... (Particularly so for Fi creatives.)


Example 1
Not quite the example you asked for, but...A real life example of my Fi in relation to your questions.
As I try to come up with real life examples to provide, I feel overwhelmed. Why? Because there are so many, how am I to choose just one? I find it interesting that you are interested in this topic, and I appreciate the approach you are taking, as if you are trying to ground the IE into concrete specific things to look for, including samples of approaches. I find your approach refreshing. As such, I felt compelled to help your efforts by sharing with you my, personal, answers to these questions.

Example 2: Fi vs Ti

• Fi: what i find interesting/important here is how this info affects the reader
  Ti: the effect on the reader isn't as important as the truth of the statement
  Fi: regardless of whether it is true or not, it will effect the reader in some way. The reader will orient the info based on how well the info relates to what they already believe, know, and experienced
  Ti: screw that, the reader should be oriented to the truth/falsity in things, period.
  Fi: but the reader can only judge the truth/falsity of the statement based on their previous experiences, beliefs, etc
  Ti: bullshit. The truth/falsity of the statement should be self evident, regardless of the reader's experiences/beliefs

5. How can someone appeal to an Fi primary/creative? What are some things that one might say that makes an Fi primary/creative feel comfortable or appreciated? Things one should avoid saying?

Bring up how this TPE is related to another TPE that they have experienced (or heard/read about).

Let them know what orientation you have towards a TPE, even if it's a neutral one.

Expect that they may change their orientation to you based on what orientations you've expressed...even the neutral ones.

Remember always, that relatonships are something we do, not something we have. We relate to each other, based on similarities and differences. The more closely matched our experiences and orientations, the more we are able to relate to each other. The less matched, the less we have to relate through.
(Please keep in mind, that there is also relating based on compatibility. Where each person covers the other person's weaknesses, thereby creating a strengthened unit.)

7. How might Fi be utilized to help someone else?

Depends on the problem?

You can help a person sort out their orientations towards/away from aspects of a TPE. The finer you go, the more clearer of their values, but the harder to come to a decision with multiple conflicting orientations to even one TPE.

You can help them make sense of a TPE by asking them what the first TPE reminds them of, and how this remembered TPE impacted them.

Back to, It depends on the problem.

-----

4. What does Fe ultimately seek to do? What is the purpose of this information element? How is this purpose achieved?

Fe, as with other elements, is one way in which we attempt to make sense of the world around us, including the world within ourselves.

Fe, like Te, is a method of discovering and communicating perceived actions of things, people, and events.

Fe's method utilizes perceptions of emotional and cognitive impacts that occur when a TPE is in spatial and/or temporal motion. (changes that occur across space and/or time)

An example would be like when a white tailed deer senses danger, and flees, The sight of the flashing white tail, triggers a flight response in the neighboring deer, setting them all into motion, without them having to know specifically what the danger is.
Put another way, the signal of the fleeing deer triggered an emotional/psychological impact in the other deer.
Humans have similar signalling systems.

2. How do you interpret Fe? Provide examples of this in real life and how you felt when interacting with someone that was clearly utilizing Fe.

Since Fe types are oriented to dynamic emotional/cognitive impact, their words/actions will often reflect such. This might include:

• Mentioning moods of a person, or a group
  Recognizing the interplay between their signals and your signals
  Orienting themselves based on the signals a TPE is sending out (strong Fe also has strong unconscious Fi)
  Pointing out signals you, or another TPE, might be sending
  And maybe even what they perceive those signals/emotions to mean; Sometimes stated as if it has universal meaning

Example

• An XiFe blind date and I were eating in a fast food restaurant, talking about I don't remember. His voice kept slowly rising in loudness and somewhat in pitch. I noticed neighboring diners giving us dirty looks, and one shaking her head. I interpreted this to mean that we were disturbing their own conversations. They didn't like that, I didn't blame them. I hand signaled him to lower his voice. I had to do this a couple of times. Suddenly, after one of those signals, he abruptly shut up, finished his food, and left. I was in a bit of shock. (relief, too, as I hadn't found anything of him yet that I could relate with)
  
  A couple of years later, my NiFe friend and I were talking aout Fi and Fe. (he's the one that brought me to socionics, but left this forum soon after) Anyways, the gist of the conver was that he reads my signals, but my signals aren't clear, like they are slow or withheld from him. This gave him little to no feedback, so he didn't know how to adjust what he was saying, for me. He said that he would try to elevate my energy levels, by talking faster, or louder, or higher, expecting that by doing so, I would respond faster or clearer to him. But instead, my signals would get softer, more hidden, slower. So he'd try to speed them up more...which would 'slow me down' more. And then, I would do the hand signal thing, to 'calm him down', and that would piss him off! I wasn't responding to his signals, yet I was also trying to quiet his own down??? We talked through it, and sorted some of it out. But since that conver, I've often wondered if something similar was happening with that blind date guy.
  
  One other example, In grade school, my daughter's principle was an FeXi. It was disgustingly obvious. Disgustingly as in full of the 'fakeness' that people here often associate with Fe, though Fe is not fakeness. My daughter didn't like her, and refused to come with me to an appt we had. I waited for a bit, and then the woman came out. She spoke sternly to one office worker, then did a sudden 'mood' shift to talk to a student who was waiting (the student responded well to it), then spoke with the front secretary in a hurrying/rushed tone, then turned to me, and I watched as her whole body and face shifted to that of...'make nice with the parent' mood. She led me to her office, talking a bit rushed and cheerily, made a passing joke to one of the kids...which envolved using her fingers to simulate drawing a very big smile on her face and telling the kid to be happy, or some such thing. Then she led me into her office. I wasn't really sure what to make of her. And...she didn't seem to be sure of what to make of me. I was failing to respond to a few...i dunno what to call it....mood altering attempts. I think she was trying to feel me out, to figure out what approach to take with me, and I was giving her nothing to work with. Finally she dropped all that and went straight to the point...of which I responded well too, lol. A couple of times she'd say something as if trying to get me to see her and I as being on the same team, but she quickly dropped doing that after two times of me looking at her with a deadpan face.
  
  Ok, one more example, a little more subtle in terms of the dynamic emotional/cognitive impact. My FeSi friend has had a tumultuous relationship with her husband. (I think he might be IP temperament.) Anyways, she had certain expectations of how a husband and father should be. And this man met NONE of them! She was constantly trying to change him into meeting her image of how he should be. And he, of course, was constantly resisting, usually by withdrawing from the home for a while, until she'd beg him to come back. And as soon as she realized that he wasn't changing into her ideal man, she'd start pestering him again. This cycle had been going on for over ten years!!! Anyways, at one point, she finally had to file for divorce. She'd let him move back in...started her routine, they got into a physical altercation and she had to be removed from her own home (because she had been the one to start it). I was helping her get her home back, and her two kids back. Trying to get her to focus was Hell! Anyways...during one of the focusing attempts, where she kept going on and on about how he SHOULD be, I asked her what was he like before they had gotten married. She described pretty much the same guy. I asked her what made her think that he would change from the guy she was dating, to the husband she wanted. She told me that she assumed that once they married, that he would WANT to change into being a husband who blah blah blah. I asked her, what made you think he wanted to do blah blah blah. She said...because he wanted to marry. How is this related to Fe? Because in her case, she's referring to the emotional/psychological impact on him of the dynamic changes occuring...that of getting married, and how surely he would WANT to adapt to the new dynamics and their resulting emotional/cognitive impacts on him. Since he wasn't adapting himself, she was trying to 'encourage' the emotional/cognitive impacts she expected him to have.

6. How can someone appeal to an Fe primary/creative? What are some things that one might say that makes an Fe primary/creative feel comfortable or appreciated? Things one should avoid saying?

• Well, first I would suggest keeping in mind that, whether you intend to or not, you are constantly sending out signals. Accept that, don't fight it. Especially don't try to hide it. When you try to hide it, you wind up sending conflicting or mixed messages. And Fe WILL pick up on this...often resulting in lack of trust. After all...what are you trying to hide...and WHY are you trying to hide it?? Very suspiscious of you! (particularly to Fe creatives) Just don't hide it. Let it all come out naturally.
  
  Second, I would remind you that what you do, and how you do it is going to influence Fe emotionally and psychologically. Particularly Fe base. They have every right to block those impacts, or try to change them. It's not them being fake. It's them influencing their own emotional/psychological impacts. Just as if you have a thorn in your finger, causing you pain...you have the right to pull it out, to try to stop the pain... So does Fe have the right to try to stop whatever negative impact you are triggering in them, and/or turn it into a more positive impact for them.
  
  Fe doesn't particularly care about your orientation to a topic, they don't much care about your claimed intent. They care very much about the actual impact you are having on them...or someone/thing else. That is what matters most. Oh, but don't think that intent doesn't matter at all to them. Based on the e/c impact, they will perceive an intent. Whether or not you agree, disagree, claim, or deny that was your intent...your actions spoke otherwise. This is particularly true of XiFe...who take the time to observe the dynamic interactions going on, before they influence it in some way, into a direction they deem it should go. Obviously...everyone does that, right? So if you've influenced something that was happening, it's assumed that you ALSO observed it all and chose to influence it at that time, in that way. As for correcting the erred interpretations? Good luck. It takes a huge amount of back and forth discussions to clear it up...both parties have to be willing to sort it out, not just one wanting to be heard.
  
  Think of sign language, which utilizes Fe extensively. Watch a show or video of ASL, with subtitles. Notice how much of the information comes from the combination of both language sign AND the bodily/facial signals. That without those other signals, the 'reader' would only get bits of pieces, and little context to place it all in.

8. How might Fe be utilized to help someone else?

Many therapeutic techniques have been based off the idea that you can alter your mood by altering your thoughts...as well as your behavior. That if you look in the mirror, see yourself smiling, smile throughout the day, think happy/good/useful thoughts...then your mood will adjust to match the behavior and thoughts.

And vice versa, that if you take this pill, or exercise hard enough, your mood will elevate, and you'll have elevated thoughts/behavior.
Other techniques include altering who you hang out with, as the actons and words of those people will influence you emotionally and cognitively. Do they trigger stress in you? Or do they relax you? Do they inspire you? Or bring you down?

Pay attention to what actions you are doing...and the e/c impact they are having on yourself...and those around you. Is this the impact you want/intend? If not, how might you create that desired impact? (notice a link with Fi? Fi is not the focus, but it's still a part of Fe, and vice versa)

-----

For both Fe and Fi

• Be aware of the emotional and cognitive impacts your words and actions might have on the person. To have a clue on this, you'd have to know them, personally. Else it's hit and miss.
  
  You would also do best if you have a clue as to what emotional/cognitive impact you are going for.
  
  For any particular person, you would learn what words/actions/TPE trigger a positive impact for them. Which ones a negative impact. And which ones might create the impact you are intending.
  
  Often, the mere process of getting to know what impacts them emotionally/psychologically helps them feel comfortable and/or appreciated.
  
  Also, expressing similar sentiments (via words/actions/signals), believably, will help them feel more comfortable around you.
  
  But be warned, not every F type likes to explicitely discuss these things, particular the more personal/emotional stuff. Introverted F types will usually feel awkward or embarrassed at such blatant attempts to get too personal.
  
  One way of looking at this warning, is to remember that often, emotional/cognitive impacts are felt so deeply, that exposing them would be akin to exposing your/their self. People have a history of judging, rejecting, criticizing, and manipulating perceived weaknesses in others. Exposing your/their emotions also exposes your/their weaknesses, and how you/they can be manipulated. As such, expressing these things can be a dangerous thing.

[Park]

Fe is like Maritsa.

[lemontrees]

Fe is like Maritsa.

Wtf, man...

[Radio]

ann, you are awesome.

[Beautiful sky]

Fi types will often relate how one TPE reminds them of another TPE, which reminds them of another TPE.
This chain of relationships between the TPE is based on some similarity of the emotional/cognitive impacts each TPE effected, rather than any explicit similarities. In fact, if asked for how these TPE are explicitely related to each other, the Fi type might have difficulty... (Particularly so for Fi creatives.)

What is "TPE"?

[anndelise]

What is "TPE"?

TPE is a shortened form of "things, people, and events".

[Beautiful sky]

TPE is a shortened form of "things, people, and events".

I, as a base Fi, do have a difficulty describing how things are related, as you have described mostly because I'm still extracting my own feelings or my own interpretation of the object at hand; I don't objectify objects so I'm not in constant practice of looking at their features and saying "you are like me in that way or you are like my mother in that way."

[anndelise]

I, as a base Fi, do have a difficulty describing how things are related, as you have described

In my view, describing explicitely how things are related to other things would be related to Ti.

mostly because I'm still extracting my own feelings or my own interpretation of the object at hand;

In this case, you are one of the TPE.
So there is the object, then there is you, and then there is the emotional/cognitive impact upon you. This is the relationship between you and the object.

I don't objectify objects so I'm not in constant practice of looking at their features and saying "you are like me in that way or you are like my mother in that way."

I don't know what you mean by "objectify objects", so I cannot comment on any possible misunderstandings there.

What you are describing with the last part, though, seems to be off from what I am describing.
In that, what I'm describing is that Fi would pay attention to the emotional/cognitive impacts which occur when relating the two or more TPE. In your example, you are one TPE, 'I' am another TPE, and your mother is another TPE. When you interact with me, in whatever way, your Fi would pay attention to the emotional/cognitive impacts you would feel. Then your brain would bring up some kind of reminder of another TPE which you felt the same way about...or, a reminder of a TPE which is completely different from me...such as an ideal which I don't match up to.

It is through these emotional/cognitive relationships that Fi types primarily 'feel' their way around.

Ok, maybe I understand now the last part of your post.
Right, in that an Fi type would have difficulty saying in what way 'I' had reminded you of your mother, or in what way 'I' was completely different from your ideal. The feelings would be there, the relationship in the Fi's mind would be there, but to make it explicit would require stepping into Ti territory.
Is this what you were referring to?

[717495]

What is "TPE"?

Short for type.

[anndelise]

Short for type.

No