Do IEIs-INFps think of their helplessness as attractive?

[Joy]

IxFps (particularly the females) seem to think their helplessness makes them hot. this is one of the most irritating things about any of the types on the socion. can someone enlighten me? I MUST be missing something here... seriously....

[vague]

[snegledmaca]

It aids in attracting an aggressor? It certainly fits into the victim category of behaviors.

I tend to idealise other people as being more adept than myself because it allows me to feel that I have something to gain from them and that their attention is worth getting. When people are intimidated of me or percieve me as a leader of any sort, I feel.....eh I can't really find the right word for it, but I definately dislike it and become turned off of the whole interaction. This can lead to submissive behavior on my part. I speak only for myself. I have a feeling that the other INFps are not going to appreciate being grouped into this line of thinking.

It's the same for me.

[dreamer]

I don't like being helpless unless I'm in the mood to play stupid.

[Joy]

One INFp female told me that she makes men feel more masculine. *taps fingers in an attempt not to say mean things*

I haven't noticed this type of thing in the INFp males. I'm pretty sure my brother is INFp. He doesn't do stuff like that.

[oyburger]

My sister got around to taking test and reading up on it and decided she was an INFp.

However she seems to be anything but helpless. She's very capable it's just a matter of actually getting her to do it. Maybe this sort of thing makes others view her as helpless.

[anndelise]

I responded to the IxFp question in the Alpha section: http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...?p=94441#94441


INFps who do/don't identify with what I said, please provide me feedback.

[Hugo]

polr

[Joy]

yeah, but the go about it in a Fe way, and they think it's hot because of Ni

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

One INFp female told me that she makes men feel more masculine. *taps fingers in an attempt not to say mean things*

Is this about me? Because I've said something similar to that before but I dont know if I said it to you or not. Well what I said was that I can play the helpless one to make the man feel more masculine, meaning I have the ability to play that part. Not that I always do it, or even enjoy doing it. Honestly I rarely do, and if I do its normally a kinky moment or something.

Anyways, I used to kinda WANT the guy to feel more masculine and what not, but now I get sort of annoyed when they act like that all the time. Meh.

[diamond]

An infp I know at work finds powerful men to support her agenda such as the psychiatrist and psychologist. She rides their coattails but never says anything herself.

This particular infp I happen to have a high level of distaste for.

But not all infp's :-)

[vague]

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

Also, I think INFps genuinely do doubt their ability to take care of themselves. Not that they are incapable, just they feel that way. I don't have a lot of patience for practical day to day necessities of life (Such as learning how to keep my car in good condition, managing my finances appropriately, blah blah etc. etc.) so I often neglect learning what I need to do to take care of those situations myself. When problems like that do come up, I tend to rely on the guidance of others and can appear helpless to them because I'm so clueless.

I relate to this.

=/

[Joy]

Also, I think INFps genuinely do doubt their ability to take care of themselves. Not that they are incapable, just they feel that way. I don't have a lot of patience for practical day to day necessities of life (Such as learning how to keep my car in good condition, managing my finances appropriately, blah blah etc. etc.) so I often neglect learning what I need to do to take care of those situations myself. When problems like that do come up, I tend to rely on the guidance of others and can appear helpless to them because I'm so clueless.

I do too actually. I can do all of those things well enough, but it's exhausting and leaves me feeling unconfident in my abilities to make big decisions and move forward with business matters while staying on top of the day to day stuff.

Perhaps this is an intuitive/sensory aspect of duality? Perhaps a Ni/Se thing even?

What you've described vague is not, however, what I was talking about in this thread. I guess I'm talking about emotions and the way people present themselves. Seems I'm not much of a fan of Fe.

[Scrummy]

IxFps (particularly the females) seem to think their helplessness makes them hot. this is one of the most irritating things about any of the types on the socion. can someone enlighten me? I MUST be missing something here... seriously....

I don't think helplessness makes me hot, simply because I don't think of myself in any way more helpless than anyone else to begin with. If I act vulnerable it's merely to prevent coming on too strong and obnoxious and scaring the person off. That's basically the extent of my Fe.

I actually would much rather sit and wait to see who it is that would come after me, rather than thrash about madly in the water for a prize catch, only to end up, time after time, with a basket full of fish jumping at the chance to return to the dating pool. Instead, cast down your bait where you are and see what happens.

I personally do not consider IxFps to be helpless. Their focus is just somewhere other than where my focus is. Most of the time they are in their own heads…whether observing trends that are going on or recalling something from the past. When they do deal with the external world, they are using their creative function of Fe, which means that they are attempting to harmonize the environment around them. Some might say that they are attempting to harmonize themselves to their environment, others might say that they are attempting to harmonize their environment to themselves. Being aggressive/assertive directly conflicts with attempts to harmonize. When an IxFp does get aggressive/assertive, it creates internal conflict and some very bad vibes within themselves. However, being a doormat also conflicts with harmony because it lessens their own needs, their own self. So what is an IxFp to do? Find or attract someone else who can not only understand their desire to create harmony, but can also be the one who can direct or be directed in which directions to be assertive, and/or who can/will protect them from falling into the doormat category.

The fact that they attract people who will be their knight in shining armor (or joan of arc) shows that they are not as helpless as you seem to think. This is, after all, a way of helping themselves.

I can identify with this. Although two things I could contest: 1.) Being assertive/aggressive doesn't necessarily sabatoge one's attempts to create harmony. In fact, I find myself most "in harmony" when I feel free to assert myself and be aggressive at my discretion (see: Beta spirit). 2.) Your distillation of the INFp/ESTp duality is great, although, I think it might be a little one-sided o think of the ESTp as the Joan-of-Arc character and the INFp as the psychologist. If anything, there's a sort of thrill in strength of character and immunity for the INFp - in having more or less automatic harmony with someone (the ESTp) who tends to create discord and storms wherever she goes, lol. Sure, it's cool to be the powerful and dangerous lightning, but if you're the one who can play with that lightning without getting singed, that's pretty great, too.

[anndelise]

I personally do not consider IxFps to be helpless. Their focus is just somewhere other than where my focus is. Most of the time they are in their own heads…whether observing trends that are going on or recalling something from the past. When they do deal with the external world, they are using their creative function of Fe, which means that they are attempting to harmonize the environment around them. Some might say that they are attempting to harmonize themselves to their environment, others might say that they are attempting to harmonize their environment to themselves. Being aggressive/assertive directly conflicts with attempts to harmonize. When an IxFp does get aggressive/assertive, it creates internal conflict and some very bad vibes within themselves. However, being a doormat also conflicts with harmony because it lessens their own needs, their own self. So what is an IxFp to do? Find or attract someone else who can not only understand their desire to create harmony, but can also be the one who can direct or be directed in which directions to be assertive, and/or who can/will protect them from falling into the doormat category.

The fact that they attract people who will be their knight in shining armor (or joan of arc) shows that they are not as helpless as you seem to think. This is, after all, a way of helping themselves.

I can identify with this. Although two things I could contest: 1.) Being assertive/aggressive doesn't necessarily sabatoge one's attempts to create harmony. In fact, I find myself most "in harmony" when I feel free to assert myself and be aggressive at my discretion (see: Beta spirit). 2.) Your distillation of the INFp/ESTp duality is great, although, I think it might be a little one-sided o think of the ESTp as the Joan-of-Arc character and the INFp as the psychologist. If anything, there's a sort of thrill in strength of character and immunity for the INFp - in having more or less automatic harmony with someone (the ESTp) who tends to create discord and storms wherever she goes, lol. Sure, it's cool to be the powerful and dangerous lightning, but if you're the one who can play with that lightning without getting singed, that's pretty great, too.

I allowed for the INFp playing with lightening when I included the someone "to direct or be directed" part. ISFps seem to prefer to be directed, whereas in the INFp/ESTp thing, the INFp seems to do more directing, even if subtle. Like, the INFp will mention a trend or solution to the ESTp, and then the ESTp will follow up on that. And yet, the ESTp is the "force of nature" front for the INFp. I love hearing stories about INFp/ESTp interactions.

[maze]

=)

[Joy]

impressive. you are correct on many counts.

could it be that when I try to "help" IxFps empower themselves I am actually making them quite uncomfortable? they've learned how to handle problems one way, and I am telling them that they are wrong and that they should do it my way. their way isn't "wrong", and I am trying to make them think that they are "supposed to" be something they're not. it prolly happens because I have seen A LOT of unhealthy behavior of this type, and am therefore wary of anything that resembles it. I guess it's hard for me to see the line between healthy and unhealthy when it comes to this type of attitude. and when it *is* unhealthy, I am powerless to help that person because I'm telling them to solve the issue my way instead of a healthy version of their way.

[anndelise]

impressive. you are correct on many counts.

could it be that when I try to "help" IxFps empower themselves I am actually making them quite uncomfortable? they've learned how to handle problems one way, and I am telling them that they are wrong and that they should do it my way. their way isn't "wrong", and I am trying to make them think that they are "supposed to" be something they're not. it prolly happens because I have seen A LOT of unhealthy behavior of this type, and am therefore wary of anything that resembles it. I guess it's hard for me to see the line between healthy and unhealthy when it comes to this type of attitude. and when it *is* unhealthy, I am powerless to help that person because I'm telling them to solve the issue my way instead of a healthy version of their way.

I don't think ANYbody likes being told by someone how to solve their issues. In most cases, the adviser doesn't even understand the problem in full. In others, it's only perceived as being a problem for the adviser, not the advisee.

[maze]

=)

[dreamer]

Like, the INFp will mention a trend or solution to the ESTp, and then the ESTp will follow up on that. And yet, the ESTp is the "force of nature" front for the INFp. I love hearing stories about INFp/ESTp interactions.

Me too. It's so cuteeeeeeeee.

[Joy]

maizemedley, a good example of my powerlessness to help is with my sister. she didn't show up at a family dinner a little bit after peter moved in. my mother said that it was for a reason, and that my sister would talk to me about it. I knew it was about peter... her and her husband almost split up just over a year ago because she had a crush on another guy, and I knew that her husband not wanting to meet him out of loyalty to my exhusband (who he's known since childhood) was the reason. Later when I spoke to her, she said that when her husband heard that I "left my husband for another guy" (which is not true), he said "oh, it must run in the family or something. I said, "okay, fine. Let's meet just me and you and hang out. I miss you." and she was like, "Ummm I'm not sure... my husband would prolly have to be there..." OMFG "he's worried that you'll be a bad influence on me" I asked her questions about why she doesn't have any friends right now (she's never been much of a loner) and other such questions. basically, her husband is controlling to the point that her family is not allowed to know her cell phone number. I call her at work when I want to talk to her. she said I could call her at home (his parent's house), but to make sure I leave a message so it wouldn't seem like we're "sneaking around" trying to talk to one another. I repeated everything back to her in these words (to which she always replied "it's complicated") and reminded her that the last time I had a loved one who wasn't allowed to have friends or talk to her family, I never saw her again (it was a closed casket funeral). When she said "it's complicated" I'd say "I'll bet it is!" I know I was getting a bit Te with her... and I knew that I had to stop or she'd shut me out. so pretty much I told her to think about what she'd think if I told her that I wasn't allowed to see her because my boyfriend thinks she'd be a bad influence on me, told her I loved her and missed her, and said that we should do what we can to see eachother soon. I told her that I'm not telling her that she shouldn't be with him, just that she needs to train him better. we teach people how to treat us. and she's teaching him to act that way.

the thing that really complicates matters is that the things I've done in the past to help her leave sadistic boyfriends (including one that tried to kill her) won't work this time. she's tried killing herself last april (when right after she and her husband almost split up). I know she'd rather kill herself than leave him. Even if she is willing to leave him, she's still safer with him than she is without him because I can't provide 24/7 suicide watch like he does. The only way I'd even want her to leave him is if she moved in with me (like she did after leaving the guy that tried to kill her), but she works like 2 hours from where I live. Besides, how is she going to learn to fight her own battles if I continue to do it for her (like I have her whole life)? I planned every single one of her break ups... anyways...

she's ISFp. any behavior that reminds me of her reminds me that my sister's life is in danger and I can't do anything about it. Even when the creative Fe isn't being used in an unhealthy way, I have this very strong instinct to "help" IxFps for some reason.

so yeah. that's part of why that helpless thing is sooooooooooooo frustrating.

[maze]

=)

[Joy]

How to unmuddle her destructive thoughts/reasonings?! Hmm, lemme see...does her life make sense to her? Does she feel like she is living out an existence that is consistent with her dreams? Is having to create certain procedures to talk to you...something that is consistent with the relationship she's always envisioned?

I can't say stuff like that convincingly... it's too... sugary. I could tell her to picture her future... picture the most successful "her" possible... and imagine that person giving her advice. eh nm, I've done that. she gets frustrated.

[Joy]

I used to want to be a cop so I could give people fines for flirting with me.

[Joy]

lol

the cop comment had nothing to do with what you said except that you mentioned the word "cop"

[dreamer]

That's a complicated problem, Joy. I don't think that's a type helplessness. It's something beyond type. Get her to see a therapist? It's def. not healthy to have someone else control and live her life for her, and uhm, geez, you're her own sister! What type is her husband?

Sometimes by helping her, you're making it worst as if by pushing the facts into her face, she sinks deeper into whatever she's in and clings to the problem just to rebel against those facts. Most effective way is for her to realize the problem and do it by herself. That's how I solve my problems. She have to truly believe it's a 'problem' so it can be fixed. I can never stand other people fixing my problems because then I didnt' fight my own battle and is undeserving of the uhm results.

*hug*

[Joy]

she's been seeing therapists for years. apparently she's bipolar or something. her husband is prolly ESFp. ESFj is the only other possibility... or so it seems... but he's pretty messed up emotionally, so he may very well be a friggin ESTp or who the hell knows what else.

[meatburger]

Hmm i find a girl who is a little vunerable like that quite endearing. Dont get me wrong needy is terrible.

Women who are all strong and manly acting all tough.. God that annoys the hell out of me

[Joy]

I don't *act* strong and manly. I just do what I want.

[dreamer]

Women who are all strong and manly acting all tough.. God that annoys the hell out of me

You're just intimated.

There's not a lot of women who actually acts strong and manly... And by manly...what do you mean exactly...sleep around like a man? Gah, those sluts annoys me. I know a lot of head-strong women who do what they want but that's not manly, that's just 'strong' and both genders should be allowed to be strong emotionally.

Besides, lots of women have inner strength so you can't judge them as weak.

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

Yeah, some sensing types are really shit at makeup and color-coordination. I know some Ns that are really great about it.

For me, I use a small amount of dark brown eyeliner on the top lid only. Black looks too fake for my hair / eye color (dark brown hair, green eyes). Also, I have relatively folded-in top eyelids, so I don't really need to spread it around all that much. Then, I put one layer of non-waterproof brown mascara on. Once that drys in a non-clumpy manner, I put one layer of waterproof brown mascara on. This makes it so that my mascara is waterproof, but easier to get off when I actually want to get it off. I never use eyeshadow, because you wouldn't see it anyways. My complexion is also pretty clear, but I use some facial sunscreen every day that I go outside, because the sun dries out your skin, which causes the oil glands to become hyperactive, produce more oil, and cause acne. I use a sheer lip gloss to keep my lips healthy and non-crackly.

There's my average makeup routine. What's yours on a normal day?


Oh, and I hate it when girls with blue eyes and light hair wear black eyeliner. Your makeup should suit your hair and eye color. It looks like total shit when people don't take any time to coordinate it correctly. Oh, and it also looks really bad when people use too much. I also hate it when people use foundation / base to cover up their acne, and it only ends up making it twice as noticable. Ewww.

I use under-eye concealer because I think I get circles under my eyes. Then I put a little foundation over it.

Then use brown eye liner, and for eye shadow, if I have a set of browns, I'll start with the dark part and shade it up my eye lid. I kinda learned that from Joy

Or I'll just use brown or dark red or something.

Blush

Lip gloss

Done.


Sometimes I like to go over board and use black eye liner and crazy eye shadow and stuff, if I get bored usually.

[dreamer]

I always eyeline my lower eyelids as I'm too lazy to do the upper ones in black since my hair is black, makes my eyes stand out. Eyeshadow, usually pink or beige that is neutral, sometimes gray or blue if it matches my outfit. Chapstick for lips as they're usually dry, the lipstick or lip gloss or both. All very natural.