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    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
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    Default Quotes and Information Elements

    This may have been partially inspired by the describe your PoLR thread.

    So, this is basically an interesting thing I was thinking about. I mention a quote, and people have to decide if there's an IM element (or possibly a function location) that can be associated with it.

    First one:

    "I see everyone else doing this. I guess I should copy them."
    Last edited by Taknamay; 11-11-2011 at 05:22 PM.
    What is a utopia? A dream unrealized, but not unrealizable. -- Joseph Dejacque
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    "I see everyone else doing this. I guess I should copy them."
    That sounds like the Role function, actually (and maybe to a lesser extent the Mobilizing function). The IE would be related to what they were doing. For example:

    "I see everyone else is having red wine with their meal. I guess I should copy them." = Si.
    "I see everyone else is filing these papers a certain way. I guess I should copy them." = Te.


    I like this game.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
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    Ah, I see. That's a good point. And I'm glad you like this game

    "I'm going to wear my pants backwards today and keep track of how many people notice."
    What is a utopia? A dream unrealized, but not unrealizable. -- Joseph Dejacque
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    oh God.

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    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    oh God.
    Well, if nobody is interested in that one... I wonder if people would also be interested in non-quote concepts? For example, which element do you think has the most to do with motion? I would say because it's related to force.
    What is a utopia? A dream unrealized, but not unrealizable. -- Joseph Dejacque
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    "I'm going to wear my pants backwards today and keep track of how many people notice."
    Definitely Ne -- Intuition of Alternate Possibilities. Possibly with Ti backing it up (the "keeping track" part sounds like a logical statistical analysis).



    Motion, on the other hand, is actually primarily related to Te. Se observes the static force/strength present in objects; Te observes the dynamic motion present in moving/changing objects. Te + Si, in particular, would deal with physical motion. Te + Ni tends to deal with motion on a larger, more abstract scale.


    Ignore Poli. Some people around here are unwarrantedly condescending.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    i don't see alpha NTs being quickly inclined to do that at all.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labocat View Post
    i don't see alpha NTs being quickly inclined to do that at all.
    The irrational subtypes of Alpha NT say stuff like that all the time. Whether or not they'd actually do it is another question entirely. LIIs especially would probably be too self-conscious to actually try it, unless they were in a highly emotionally "safe" environment.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    This may have been partially inspired by the describe your PoLR thread.

    So, this is basically an interesting thing I was thinking about. I mention a quote, and people have to decide if there's an IM element (or possibly a function location) that can be associated with it.

    First one:

    "I see everyone else doing this. I guess I should copy them."
    so which information elements do you see in the quote that you provided?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Fine, I'll help you out since it looks like no one else is cooperating...

    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post

    "I see everyone else doing this. I guess I should copy them."
    IM I see are

    "I see" - static; could also be "he's playing with my toys." (static) perceives outward sensory data projected by objects. Unless objects change their appearance significantly, the impression will not change.

    Se watches, takes in something.


    "everyone else" -object of sense perception



    "doing this." -action

    That would be a conditioning an object; you do it with either labeling it with some quality, "a black man" or an action "doing"

    "I guess I should copy them." -a decision to act base on what one sees (perceives); that may be the tail end of consciousness hence Ti. The impetus to act is after a decision has been concluded by some means of rational judgement.


    It's not Te because Te focuses on what's being done with the object.

    "Those work well." That would kinda be Te. Or, "you would get a better response if you toned it down." "the reason why you're not like this is because of this."
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 11-15-2011 at 04:26 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    You guys have known each other for a million years (in socionics relationship standards), but still can't love and get along.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You guys have known each other for a million years (in socionics relationship standards), but still can't love and get along.
    I can't hug ashton, his manly chest is too broad, and my embrace could never envelop his soaring infantile ego.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    i'm curious why VI is being dealt so much less harsh a condemnation than this thread. if you can't read a type from tiny subtle cues in the kind of phrases the person uses, what makes you all think reading types from subtle cues in a person's face makes any more sense.

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    Well, for me, VI only points to something that might be, just like this other stuff. I'm not a big fan of VI.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


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    Quote Originally Posted by labocat View Post
    i'm curious why VI is being dealt so much less harsh a condemnation than this thread. if you can't read a type from tiny subtle cues in the kind of phrases the person uses, what makes you all think reading types from subtle cues in a person's face makes any more sense.
    I don't believe that it is the case that you cannot get clues pointing towards someones type from the types and wording of phrases they use. My disagreement is with the idea that a phrase or word itself contains an objective type of information seperate from the reader. This is not to say that this kind of exercise is pointless, I don't think it is, however it is important to keep in mind that the person has the type and despite being the author of the words that they use, the words exist independently of the author, and all meaning found within the words is imposed upon them by the reader. However when it comes to shared meanings of course there are words and phraes which resonate, either universally or across a significant portion of a society, I think that it is worthwhile looking at these phrases and seeing which ones contain htese enrgies that resonate strongly with a perceived energy. However, most everyday phrases in themselves, without a context in which to construct a meaning, are pretty useless. The same sentence can be said by all types, either with the same intended meaning or with totally different intended meanings,

    I am sceptical of VI.

    Despite this I think both are worth exploring.

    "I'd like some toast"
    Last edited by somavision; 11-15-2011 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labocat View Post
    i'm curious why VI is being dealt so much less harsh a condemnation than this thread. if you can't read a type from tiny subtle cues in the kind of phrases the person uses, what makes you all think reading types from subtle cues in a person's face makes any more sense.
    Language takes a more vague form as they say "a picture is worth a thousand words." Someone's expressions remain more similar throughout their life than what they talk about at any given moment, which although may appear to change much more constantly, is still quite nuanced with their personality as well. So you use both, with context. Everything you type from, physical or lingual expression, all has to relate back to capturing the essence of a type. It's not a matter of logic "what makes sense in theory" but empiricism, and it's most of all about getting the 'big picture' which is why VI can work rather well and why a little snippet for a concrete phrasing doesn't work much at all.

    Also, way to warp the subject.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Lol, hypocrisy.
    How so?

    And projection.
    Lol tell me it's not true.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
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    Sorry guys... I wasn't trying to generate controversy... I will be more prudent in the future.
    What is a utopia? A dream unrealized, but not unrealizable. -- Joseph Dejacque
    EII (INFj) - 9w1 - INFP - Scorpio - Hufflepuff
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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    Sorry guys... I wasn't trying to generate controversy... I will be more prudent in the future.
    Don't worry about it, people will make a controversy out of anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    Sorry guys... I wasn't trying to generate controversy... I will be more prudent in the future.
    Heh it's no biggy. I think a lot of people who come into socionics are first interested in this catchy aspect of model functioning to theorize about in simple terms because they are easy to communicate, and is a format more multi-faceted to apply additional biases to, but for those who have been here longer you'd expect them take the more sophisticated approach and not try to influence that kind of loose illiterate thinking, at least point new people in the right direction rather than keep them at the first-grade level, so to speak.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Your quote also tells me that the deciding factor is not how the person feels or what impression they receive from external stimuli but are moved by what is happening; the outside scenario, circumstance, and event propels and moves the person into action, which is an indication of extravert.

    You will also notice, from the audience to this thread and the activities here, that there are very few rational types, because you aren't getting that many people judging the quote, and there are very few analysis types like Ti ego, activators, etc; most people, forum members included are perceiving, which means registering what is happening and not judging.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    "If you never have any disagreements, someone is obviously lying. Or has no personality. Both are bad."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    "If you never have any disagreements, someone is obviously lying. Or has no personality. Both are bad."
    EIE or ESI

    at least valued Se and Negativist Ethics.
    Last edited by Amber; 04-25-2015 at 09:45 AM.

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    “You'll have a good, secure life when being alive means more to you than security, love more than money, your freedom more than public or partisan opinion, when the mood of Beethoven's or Bach's music becomes the mood of your whole life … when your thinking is in harmony, and no longer in conflict, with your feelings … when you let yourself be guided by the thoughts of great sages and no longer by the crimes of great warriors … when you pay the men and women who teach your children better than the politicians; when truths inspire you and empty formulas repel you; when you communicate with your fellow workers in foreign countries directly, and no longer through diplomats...”

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    My first thought on the pants issue was that it would be more likely for Ne valuers (and my ILE daughter has actually worn clothes backward to see if anyone would notice), but my second thought was that it would probably be just as likely for Fe valuers, half of whom are not Ne valuers. And then I thought that there might be other people who would do that as well, I'm not sure. I understand the thought behind it and I agree with the thought behind the quote, but if I actually heard someone say that I would probably look harder to see where it was going than assume Ne. I would keep Ne in my head as a possible reason though.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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