Fi suggestive/dual-seeking of LSEs-ESTjs and LIEs-ENTjs

[InvisibleJim]

It appears they motivate neurotic IEEs to keep talking about it on the internets.

[DirectorAbbie]

Do you only want the guys' input?

[Creepy-theticalanti]

How do you guys think LSE handle relationships, personal, emotional, familial, etc.

Objectively.

Gauging emotional reactions and distances is something valued by us, but we are naturally bad at it. If we act formally, objectively, and stay consistent in our actions, it's easier to measure how the other person reacts to make an accurate comparison between how they feel about us and how others feel/act towards us.

Work has a certain appeal. It's important to mention, since sometimes LSEs will push away even family for their work. We like work because in most cases it's fun for us, fulfilling our Te; and in other cases, in healthier LSEs, we do it ultimately to provide a better lifestyle to our families, be more in-control with our lives, and spend more time with them.

That being said, in family relations, if things become strained, LSE will resort back to work. We subconsciously expect others to maintain/develop relationships. Healthier, more developed LSEs can do this better ourselves, and continue to add value to the relationship.

Lastly, LSEs tend to keep a mental log of all experiences with a person, using Si. In general, the longer we know someone, or the more time we spend with them, the closer the relationship. Time is crucial to developing trust. Delta relationships, especially LSE-EII, tend to develop much more slowly than Beta relationships. Because of this, there is a weakness in LSEs to disregard family members who have been inconsistent in our lives and to reject them just like anybody else. This is actually the furthest from what the LSE desires, close relationships with family - but when push comes to shove, we are objective because that is most natural for us.

This is just my perspective. I'm sure I've projected some. Not all of this will apply to every LSE. Hope this adds value to the discussion.

I'll also add, I don't view any of this behavior as necessarily "neurotic", as implied by the thread subject title. It's natural and works.

[Beautiful sky]

Um, it's so strange and sad to hear people, especially some LSE, say that they would rather have a dog than a human being in their lives; I was so emotionally moved by this suggestion that I cried almost all day to my LSE friend and asked why I was so deeply impacted by such a saying and I just asked him to help me work through my flustered emotions about this topic, and you will also notice that this isn't the first time I've mentioned this, which only means that it's been very impactive on my. Well the discussion went:

LSE: "Do you want me to compare what it's like having a dog as a companion rather than a human being?"
Me: Yes, please.
LSE: "Well, you give emotional support to a dog but you can't get one from them, but with a human being you can get emotional support from them, which is what I need."
Me: So you do value relationship.
LSE: "I only said what I said to you the last time because I was frustrated and was dealing with a lot of small problems, that were insignificant, but I didn't mean it."
Me: You better not say something like that again.
LSE: "Why are you so tied up about it."
Me: It's wrong to not value relationships, human beings, not to appreciate people, even if you don't agree with minor things just because you're the type of person who is so emotional about what they say as it's in regards to you.
LSE: "I know. I didn't mean it." (laughs, hugs me)

[Kim]

I prefer being with dogs over people most of the time. Very few humans make me giggle at least 5 times a day every day.

[Beautiful sky]

How do you handle neurosis, maritsa?

OMG, what creates it in me is when too many things happen at the same time. The last case of neurosis was when I was visiting Michael and my sister txts me with news about her new premi baby, my dad ending up in the hospital, my mom worried about everyone; when too many events are created at the same time, when I sit there and imagine how everyone must be feeling, when I imagine what must be happening, when I think of the worst possible scenarios and how I might have to prepare to handle each one; I don't live in the moment, I can't focus on what's in front of me, I get so scattered with my thoughts and paralyzed with actions, I get excessively worried about other possible things that may or may not happen. Too many thoughts in regards to actions are created within my mind. At that moment, I need someone to sit next to me, hug me and say "this is what's happening now, you don't know the rest, you need to live in the moment, focus on getting this done, this is the most important action to take now, don't focus on his/her behavior/actions, do this."

[DirectorAbbie]

I certainly wouldn't rather have a dog than a human being. Do you realize how much training they would require just to understand how to "close the curtains?"

[InvisibleJim]

I certainly wouldn't rather have a dog than a human being. Do you realize how much training they would require just to understand how to "close the curtains?"

Is it more or equal to the amount of training required to get an EII to understand how to 'close the curtains'?

[Creepy-theticalanti]

I certainly wouldn't rather have a dog than a human being. Do you realize how much training they would require just to understand how to "close the curtains?"

It requires much training to teach certain individuals how to pick up after themselves. And sometimes they still don't get it. At least dogs respond to treats and positive reinforcement.

[silke]

LSE Fi d.s. as described by someone typing as ESI:

"... Another thing I don't like about LSEs is that they do a lot, but they want to be praised for it. My EII grandmother is very good at giving out praises, adoring others, being adulating and rewarding by her words, telling someone that she appreciates what they have done. I will say "thank you", but I'm not going to spend half an hour complimenting their work. While the LSE is waiting for it and takes offense otherwise. I say: "Then don't do it. If it's not needed, why even do this? Don't exert yourself to do something just to be praised." This is their suggestive Fi seeking, this searching for a constant source of gratefulness, positive emotion and ethical appraisal of their actions. For ESIs this works differently: I give as much as I can give without any expectations of being praised."

[consentingadult]

LSE Fi d.s. as described by someone typing as ESI:

"... Another thing I don't like about LSEs is that they do a lot, but they want to be praised for it. My EII grandmother is very good at giving out praises, adoring others, being adulating and rewarding by her words, telling someone that she appreciates what they have done. I will say "thank you", but I'm not going to spend half an hour complimenting their work. While the LSE is waiting for it and takes offense otherwise. I say: "Then don't do it. If it's not needed, why even do this? Don't exert yourself to do something just to be praised." This is their suggestive Fi seeking, this searching for a constant source of gratefulness, positive emotion and ethical appraisal of their actions. For ESIs this works differently: I give as much as I can give without any expectations of being praised."

This is nonsense, LSEs don't fish for compliments when doing a lot of work. No types fishes for compliments on their base function. Such behavior would be mobilizing Te, which can in fact be observed in IEEs and SEEs. LSE's acceptance and recognition seeking behavior is through mobilizing Ne.

[Esaman]

@consentingadult
While fishing for compliment is not right way to put it, isn't there a thing that Te and Fe is involved, active, rational, progression. While EIE and LIE might have their more abstract, complexed, delayed, spread out, intuitive return on effort schemes. ESE and LSE are a bit more in the now and probably working for positive affect(Si) for the person. Then involved active rational progression expects to see positive results and feedback.

[anndelise]

LSE Fi d.s. as described by someone typing as ESI:

"... Another thing I don't like about LSEs is that they do a lot, but they want to be praised for it. My EII grandmother is very good at giving out praises, adoring others, being adulating and rewarding by her words, telling someone that she appreciates what they have done. I will say "thank you", but I'm not going to spend half an hour complimenting their work. While the LSE is waiting for it and takes offense otherwise. I say: "Then don't do it. If it's not needed, why even do this? Don't exert yourself to do something just to be praised." This is their suggestive Fi seeking, this searching for a constant source of gratefulness, positive emotion and ethical appraisal of their actions. For ESIs this works differently: I give as much as I can give without any expectations of being praised."

This sounds more like a description of the Love Language "Words of Affirmation" than anything socionical.

[consentingadult]

@consentingadult
While fishing for compliment is not right way to put it, isn't there a thing that Te and Fe is involved, active, rational, progression. While EIE and LIE might have their more abstract, complexed, delayed, spread out, intuitive return on effort schemes. ESE and LSE are a bit more in the now and probably working for positive affect(Si) for the person. Then involved active rational progression expects to see positive results and feedback.

I don't believe it works like that at large. The rewards back and forth between duals and activation partners develops more along the lines of unexpected benefits which can be enjoyed without making a lot of fuss about it. For an LSE, performing hard work is what they do by default, not something to make a big deal about it. Unless, of course, they observe someone else not doing enough of it, and in that case they might become critical about/toward than person.

When it comes to applying their Si, it also is not about fishing for compliments, also not for positive verbal feedback. It is more subconscious than that. What an LSE expects back, is Fi in an applicated, not verbal, form, while at the same time having taken the responsibility of generating Ne themselves of their backs. At the same time they apply Si behaviors, not because theywant to achieve anything (consciously), it's just what they do, and they are good at it. But as said, these are unconscious expectations, unconscious to an extent that person doesn't realize they have such needs until they receive then in practice. Likewise with behaviors.

I am typing this on a tablet, which is really frustrating and cumbersome. Sorry I can not write more about it.

[Beautiful sky]

Lse want people around. They don't often know how to deliver facts in a compassionate and personable way. They need aomeone who cares about the feelings of others and who forgivea them for giving thinga in a harah way and also who sticka around and loves them

[Beautiful sky]

"I felt like what you wrote was a personal attack on my character." Being especially guarded about one's character.
Is this related to Fi DS? Why does the person experience anxiety of one's character?


Fi morals

"Cheating is inherently wrong" - this is more fixated ethics.

[Pookie]

Depends on the reasons for saying it. If the impulse is to control the way others see them, it's insecurity driving the anxiety. If it's a reaction to something they see as disrespectful, then it's different.

It can go a bunch of ways. Personally, i'd probably never make that statement, because someone elses opinion holds no weight. It would have to be someone close to me to get anxiety to build. But on the other hand, I know people that would absolutely respond to this type of thing in a battle fervor, a few of them EII's even.