Kassie's entitled to say what she wants about her relationships in regards to Socionics, or else there'd be nothing to base this on.
I for one, Workaholics, find you quite pleasant to bear and easier to get along with than any other Delta NF I know. Whether that's an indicator of type or just your nature in regards to certain people, who knows. But hopefully those who enjoy your company will find it the easiest to vouch for your type.
lagh we discussed the problem of Socionics just the other day, and you have a point with what you stated, but selectively critiquing the flaws of Socionics is not really constructive. You can be the Agent of Chaos, but why waste your energy on Socionics?Originally Posted by kassie
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
Some days I wonder if people have ever met a ESE, this is a hard type to miss. Also I keep hearing that ESE's are mostly 2's, I beg to differ, most ESE's I've met are 7's, with the same problems, overextending themselves, perfectionism, running out of time, a need for someone to stabilize them.^ Cold turkey?
This might sound crazy, but...
Rather than asking for "evidence that you're ESE (or not IEE)", it might be more valuable to ask "the detractors" why they dislike (or aren't ravingly enthusiastic fans of) you.
I could be way off-the-mark on this, but I feel some of the Fe-controversy stems from how polar people's attraction (or repulsion) is to you.
Some people really, really like you.
Some people really, really don't.
Why?
Also WA always go on and on about possible relationships(sorry WA, just need to mentioned it), this is something that I don't see a Fi-ignoring type do, or a ESE with 8th functionand 2nd Function
, it's just not probable they would discuss these issues in the way WA does, as possibilities. If WA was ESE, she probably would have gone to dinner with whatever guy at the gym she is talking to, got it out of system and if that didn't work out, went off to another guy.
Hey maybe she's a strange sort of ESE, but I don't see it, there's not much ESE about the tentative and passive way she approaches relationships.
Most ESEs I've met are 1s 2s or 3s, Ive never met an ESE 7 actually, or maybe I have but the dots didnt connect. Not to imply anything about WA's type or whatever, just bringing my experiences to the table and trying to make it harder to lean your arms out.
Two ESE's I know are 2, one is 3, one 7 and one 8.
The 7 is so insane, it's like being high on speed ALL THE TIME. I can't even mention her without caps. She's overwhelming and manic, lol... It's not bad but it's crazy
Here is an image for reference:
Last edited by Jenna; 10-18-2011 at 02:04 AM.
I don't how you miss them, they're usually throwing parties or at a party, or moving from bar to bar. If there is a way to describe the ESE I've met, it's Bon vivant, and this is something of a full time thing for them if they can help it.
They can be pretty insane, that's why they need like 50 friends otherwise they would burn them all out.
Come to think of it, my best friend back in Las Vegas was an ESE, Im not sure if he was 2W3 or 7W6, but we went to tons of parties and did crazy shit together. It also payed off to hang out with him since he was really a chick magnet, lol.
Maybe Im just too drunk at parties and bars to notice them.
Of the three RL ESEs I am pretty sure of the types for, two are 2s, and the other, not certain (something else--7 is an interesting possibility, so I'll pay attention).
If you look into the history of enneagram/socionics/mbti correlations on this forum, lots of people have made the 2/ESE/ESFJ connection, so it's not just a couple of lone voices pointing it out as a possible type combination.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Yeah, think of the stereotypical overbearing grandmother or mother force feeding you cookies. ESE 2!
Interesting. She wanted to hear why ESE could be a possible type, so I gave her my 2-cents.
I like wawa. I also believe she is IEE-Fi.
So fuck you guys who don't understand. This is just between me and her. You don't need to defend her, she can sufficiently defend her viewpoints, because that's all that I'm really attacking, unless she feels otherwise.
Then perhaps I'll feed her some carrots as a means of apology. You love carrots don't youI like soft baby carrots, boiled gently.
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
also with a bit of butter. I like butter. Just a bit.
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
"This is BS" and "this is ridiculous" isn't really a pissing off kinda thing to say.
I think you're IEE
And, you seem to say the same meanings to things as Stan and Small; you guys have the same values and follow the same course of action; in this very thread, both you and Small agree that this thread is pointless.
@WA
How do you read people?
How do you figure out their motivations?
Why do you have trouble getting things into action? What stops you?
-
Dual type
Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
My EIE mom is also overbearing and force feed me cookies(except badly made ones, ew). I think it's a mom/grandma stereotype in general and only somewhat type related.
But what i was trying to tease out with this thread is whether there are actually socionically based reasons why some people are bringing up ESE or EIE for me. It wasn't to try to get to the bottom of why those particular people might not like me. Anyway, i dont see being called an ESE type an insult or anything. It's just not "me", it doesn't describe "me" at least the way i understand ESE to be from what i've read.^ Cold turkey?
This might sound crazy, but...
Rather than asking for "evidence that you're ESE (or not IEE)", it might be more valuable to ask "the detractors" why they dislike (or aren't ravingly enthusiastic fans of) you.
I could be way off-the-mark on this, but I feel some of the Fe-controversy stems from how polar people's attraction (or repulsion) is to you.
Some people really, really like you.
Some people really, really don't.
Why?
And as far as some people really really not liking me, well, I've come to realize in life that I can't please everyone. Some people are just going to not like other people, for no apparent reason. Socionics even makes that clear as well. I do the best I can to be civil and decent and friendly without sacrificing my ethics/morals and hey, if some people have a problem with me, then there's not much I can really do about that. Sometimes it's more a problem with their own self than anything in particular about me.
And i'm glad that some people really really like me!I hope ur one of them, CILs, cause i really really like u too!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
What can i say, i'm just an easy going gal... And we have a common interest(Survivor!!!
)
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I knew u'd come around Reubs.Interesting. She wanted to hear why ESE could be a possible type, so I gave her my 2-cents.
I like wawa. I also believe she is IEE-Fi.
So fuck you guys who don't understand. This is just between me and her. You don't need to defend her, she can sufficiently defend her viewpoints, because that's all that I'm really attacking, unless she feels otherwise.
Then perhaps I'll feed her some carrots as a means of apology. You love carrots don't you
And I do love carrots! no butter though, i'm trying to be athletic
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Wow these are tough questions for me to answer because i just read people and figure out their motivations in a way that i can't really explain or describe. It's just a 6th sense i often have. And of course i'm not always totally sure if i'm right. But often later down the line i discover that my suspicions were correct."This is BS" and "this is ridiculous" isn't really a pissing off kinda thing to say.
I think you're IEE
And, you seem to say the same meanings to things as Stan and Small; you guys have the same values and follow the same course of action; in this very thread, both you and Small agree that this thread is pointless.
@WA
How do you read people?
How do you figure out their motivations?
Why do you have trouble getting things into action? What stops you?
As far as getting things into action, i've been told on many occasions that i need to be more assertive. I am often a bit shy or fearful of resistance or confrontation. Also in other cases sometimes i dont quite know how to practically go about doing what it is i need to get done. And other times i just procrastinate (but usually also because of that reason but also if i just wont enjoy that particular activity). I'd say Se-role describes me well in that when there's an urgent situation or if someone is really depending on me, I am better about getting mobilized and taking action to fix the urgency.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
No problem, i'm glad you brought that up actually. and i agree with you, my ESE friend totally does what you mentioned.Some days I wonder if people have ever met a ESE, this is a hard type to miss. Also I keep hearing that ESE's are mostly 2's, I beg to differ, most ESE's I've met are 7's, with the same problems, overextending themselves, perfectionism, running out of time, a need for someone to stabilize them.
Also WA always go on and on about possible relationships(sorry WA, just need to mentioned it), this is something that I don't see a Fi-ignoring type do, or a ESE with 8th function
Hey maybe she's a strange sort of ESE, but I don't see it, there's not much ESE about the tentative and passive way she approaches relationships.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Would it be that you can pick up on their attitudes and moods pretty well and you feel that they can't conceal themselves from you?
How do you ignore Ni?
So you like that SLI, being your dual, is rather "laid back," lounge in their pj's all day and you get the sense that Si works better for you than a more up on their feet and doing things kind of person? I believe that in many cases SLI, being very introverted, are also slow to respond to questions and such.
Dual type
Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Maritsa, why does the case need to be made? Shes IEE. Just admit that you think shes not.
Ummm, i'm not sure how i ignore Ni. I know that on here, i tend to sometimes find reading Ni-ego's written material very hard to follow. I also often find their metaphors weird and often dont realize they were intending some sort of esoteric symbolism until someone points it out. I also find a their nihilistic attitudes pointless. Dont know if that amounts to ignoring Ni or not.
Yeah i like laid back guys; they are good for me as I have a really hard time often recognizing when i'm past my limit and when i need to rest. I disagree that SLIs routinely lounge in their pj's all day. On the contrary the SLIs i know like to be active. They live for leisure time, but they tend to choose athletic things to occupy themselves with in that free time. However, i wouldn't put it past them to also be ok with lounging in their pj's all day from time to time.
I also have not found SLIs to be slow in responding to questions. In fact, the one i've been talking to at the gym responds readily to my questions. What they ARE slow about is initiating contact. They also dont ask ME a whole lot of questions; the gym guy has asked me questions but on the rare occasion when that happens, it's usually the same question i asked him, turned back to me. Seems like either they cant think of what to say, or they're not sure what would be appropriate to say, or a combo thereof.
Well Maritsa has long thought I'm SEE, which isn't that far off, though her reasons for coming up with the typing were questionably based imo in that she had BARELY gotten to know me at the time, initially totally went off of her weird VI techniques from a couple of bad photos of me, and subsequently was trying to force every other piece of info she obtained from me to "fit" SEE, even when it wasn't fitting.
That said, I do think SEE is a more plausible alternate typing for me than ESE.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Ni ignoring is not being able to follow discussions of trends into the future...listen to Megadoomer's self video where he discusses the trends of the schools and professions he's chosen, that's Ni.
"The way to my study actually started in childhood." -Ni.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-18-2011 at 05:28 AM.
Dual type
Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
What do you think, WA? Are you able to follow that video?
Anyway, I like you too, if that's what you're looking to get out of this thread. I don't know anyone here who doesn't like you.
I type you SEE and have from day one and will never change my mind, but I'm not saying that to win or to give you the impression that I'm not on your side, because you need people to be on your side. I'm saying that because I will say it again, I do believe that having someone who has Ni in their ego and who has a long vision of things will get you to be active and take the right steps in the direction that you want. You procrastinate now from this lack of vision, I can sense it and organizing with the sense of vision just so happens to fit perfectly into what Ni does best.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-18-2011 at 05:50 AM.
Dual type
Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Would you please not paste my video here? You can link it if you want, but I'd prefer it to be left in the original thread, thanks.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
No offense to Mega Doomer, but tbh it was hard for me to get thru the video (boring). Though MD u seem like a very sweet, benign guy (and cute!).
Aww Maritsa, thanks. That wasn't the intent of the thread as i mentioned previously, but it is nice to know that I'm liked. Despite our differences in the past, I like you as well
My issue with your typing is that you based it purely off of questionable VI techniques, which apparently mean a lot to you because you've tended to ignore evidence against SEE because it goes against your VI typing of me. Such as here where i stated re: Ni that i have a hard time following things Ni-egos write (before you posted MD's video). You sort of ignored that evidence of non Ni-valuing. There is a lot of other evidence too that you are just disregarding because you are so stuck to your original bad-VI based SEE typing. But heck, keep thinking i'm SEE i dont mind. I
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I honestly don't think MD's video can be used as an example of Ni when he's most likely Si/Ne valuer. Also, @MD, do you want the video removed if Maritsa can't be bothered to do it?
No offense taken, thanks for the compliments.Well, Maritsa types me ILI as you know and this comes 3rd or even 4th in my self-typings. I don't know if you type my INTj or ISTp (or something else), but does your duals typically seem boring to you? Or is it just the Delta way of duality. (<- once again, included the cliche, yay!)
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
I haven't really tried typing you tbh MegaDoomer, and your type doesn't stick out clearly to me. If you are ISTp, you seem more Si-subtype at least by what i've come to associate the Te-SLI VI with. You do sort of have a Haley Joel Osment sort of look and aura to you, actuallyNo offense taken, thanks for the compliments.
That said, even when i find out about Te-SLIs' lifestyle sometimes i have actually felt a little surprised about how they find the activities that they do interesting, so maybe it is sort of part of duality at first anyway. What makes getting to know SLIs fun though is trying to knock down that thick wall they surround themselves with and trying to see the innermost them. It's not easy to say the least, but it's almost like it's my mission in life to get to know what makes each person tick, so a seemingly insurmountable task like that keeps me going, energizes me, presents a challenge to me, a goal. And with every little clue, i feel a small victory, especially if i like what i've found out.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Butter is actually good in small quantities wawa
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
btw this description fits me amazingly well, especially the tips on how to get along with me!
http://russellrowe.com/enneagram_type_2.htm
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
yeah this one's great... two it is...
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
The thing that struck me reading this thread, was that you seem very sensible. I'm not saying IEE's can't be sensible, and I can't speak for other IEE's, but I don't have a sensible bone in my body. (Well, maybe two sensible bones, all the rest are reckless though) Getting a bit better with age, but I was definitely reckless in my youth.
You said that you stopped hanging out with a friend because she likes to go to parties, where there are a lot of people and this isn't your thing. That strikes me as more of an introverted attitude to have.
Someone also commented on how you approach relationships tentatively. I know from my own experience, that if I like someone, I go after them full throttle. I'm incapable of hiding how I feel. I pinned an SLI to the ground on more than one occasion. lol.
I get the feeling you are EII. Could it be possible that you identify with IEE, because you have been romantically interested in SLI's? I thought it was interesting that you said they were all Te-SLI's. Is it possible your feelings are blindsiding you into believing you are IEE? Feelings can do that sometimes. Feelings can be bitches.
Can I ask what tips on how to get along with you, in particular, you identified with in the enneagramme link?
You what? Clearly not IEE.I pinned an SLI to the ground on more than one occasion. lol.
Also, IEE's are some of the most sensible people I've ever known. Some of them at least.
Do not be fooled by their silly jokes and coquettish behaviour, their playful eyes hide an eternity's worth of wisdom to be discovered.
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
You learn more when you make mistakes. I've made a fair few of those.
All of these are really excellent points Eye of the Potato. All of what you mentioned do go through my mind recurrently, and sure it is ENTIRELY possible that i am EII.
I'm not sure if it's my attraction to a couple of Te-SLIs that clinched my choice of IEE so much. As a newb to socionics a couple of years ago, coming from the MBTI world, I was convinced that I was an introvert. I mistakenly typed myself IEI at the time (wow, really bad mistake!!!). I also felt that I'd experienced duality with the one Te-SLI, which is why i got more interested in socionics, so that was really the one thing that I was more or less sure about. He seemed a lot more sociable than me, so i actually typed him SLE at the time ().
Upon further study of socionics (in various ways, including reading, interacting with forum members, and just trying to understand the concepts), it became obvious that i was most certainly not beta, my dual was DEFINITELY not SLE, and i seem to function more as a socionics extratim in that i have a drive to interact and influence objects/peoople, as opposed to just taking in and assessing objects/people. I have really done some really blatantly obvious things to make my feelings for someone known (including these days with another Te-SLI). One thing that sort of has restrained me in the past with making really obvious moves, has been the influence of my mom, who had basically raised me with the idea that a guy is supposed to make all the moves (she's SEI) and the girl is supposed to be demure and "hard to get". She constantly talks about that sort of thing, and gives examples, etc, and makes fun of situations that go against that. So that had been my approach in the past, except when my drive to initiate got soo bad that i would be like "screw it, i'm going over and talking to him" or write an email confessing my feelings (did that twice).
Anyway, one of the things that clinched my identifying with the IEE type was also Rick's Extended IEE description, which was totally spot on in every way. I also VI a lot like a bunch of Fi-IEEs.
However, I definitely have not ruled out EII, but either way that still wouldn't be too far off, i'd still be delta NF. And I generally find both LSEs and SLIs appealing (of course case by case basis). Activity is a great intertype as well, I wouldn't mind ending up with one at all.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Perhaps you're right EoP.
I don't know. I mean getting pinned down can be pretty arousing.
Hmm. I think wawa is a bit too EP to be EII. Also, she seems pretty Ne. Nonetheless she feels different from Ne-IEE or Fi-IEE for that matter.
Ne-EII?
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
I can understand why you may have questioned your type. It's so difficult to know how much of you is innate and how much you have picked up from others. Plus, we act in different ways in different situations and stages of life. IEE's can act quite introverted at times too, I've doubted my extroversion at times also. But I definitely become depressed if I don't get the chance to socialise. My skin actually starts to look grey if I spend too much time alone.All of these are really excellent points Eye of the Potato. All of what you mentioned do go through my mind recurrently, and sure it is ENTIRELY possible that i am EII.
I'm not sure if it's my attraction to a couple of Te-SLIs that clinched my choice of IEE so much. As a newb to socionics a couple of years ago, coming from the MBTI world, I was convinced that I was an introvert. I mistakenly typed myself IEI at the time (wow, really bad mistake!!!). I also felt that I'd experienced duality with the one Te-SLI, which is why i got more interested in socionics, so that was really the one thing that I was more or less sure about. He seemed a lot more sociable than me, so i actually typed him SLE at the time (
Upon further study of socionics (in various ways, including reading, interacting with forum members, and just trying to understand the concepts), it became obvious that i was most certainly not beta, my dual was DEFINITELY not SLE, and i seem to function more as a socionics extratim in that i have a drive to interact and influence objects/peoople, as opposed to just taking in and assessing objects/people. I have really done some really blatantly obvious things to make my feelings for someone known (including these days with another Te-SLI). One thing that sort of has restrained me in the past with making really obvious moves, has been the influence of my mom, who had basically raised me with the idea that a guy is supposed to make all the moves (she's SEI) and the girl is supposed to be demure and "hard to get". She constantly talks about that sort of thing, and gives examples, etc, and makes fun of situations that go against that. So that had been my approach in the past, except when my drive to initiate got soo bad that i would be like "screw it, i'm going over and talking to him" or write an email confessing my feelings (did that twice).
Anyway, one of the things that clinched my identifying with the IEE type was also Rick's Extended IEE description, which was totally spot on in every way. I also VI a lot like a bunch of Fi-IEEs.
However, I definitely have not ruled out EII, but either way that still wouldn't be too far off, i'd still be delta NF. And I generally find both LSEs and SLIs appealing (of course case by case basis). Activity is a great intertype as well, I wouldn't mind ending up with one at all.
With regard to your mothers advice, I think it's important for people to follow their own instincts. It would probably be wise for an SEI to let an ILE chase them, but if you want an SLI, it's probably best to let them know straight up how you feel about them. Since they have such a hard time figuring out their feelings, it makes it easier if they know where they stand with you.
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