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Thread: Article: Socionics Type Subtype Descriptions by V. Meged, A. Ovcharov, and V. Gulenko

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    Default Article: Full type and subtype descriptions by V. Meged & A. Ovch

    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    The descriptions are longer than this, they should be modified to include the full versions.http://socionic.ru/index.php/2010-10...10-14-21-07-24

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    The more I see from this system, the more I like. These descriptions are great...IMO anyways.

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    &papu silke's Avatar
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    I've finished translating the machine translation subtype descriptions and updated it with the missing ones.
    Last edited by silke; 11-21-2016 at 07:15 PM.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Somebody please Sticky this

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    Perhaps the best descriptions of all. Like all descriptions, they are subjective, but at least these two understood the theory well and did not make significant mistakes like other authors.

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    These are definitely among my favorite type descriptions out there. They feel like they describe real people more than caricatures.

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    100% discount theum nathair's Avatar
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    Meged/Ovcharov descriptions only seem plausible if you squint

     




    'Often lacks determination and confidence in himself.' Determination may be lacking, but a lack of self-confidence is somewhat inconsistent with 4D-L, particularly in gamma where there's an optimum way of doing things.

    'In his soul he is--' speculation about others' souls is patently invalid. Even if such statements were made by a person of the same type, they could not be reliably extrapolated.

    'Subject to frequent doubts and fluctuations. Through his strong intuition he is able to predict the outcome of any undertaking...' --These two lines are contradictory for ILI. To begin with, it's not 'frequent doubts and fluctuations', which sounds a bit frantic. Doubts can be pervasive. One chooses the best possible course knowing sometimes when the moment has come to decide, the outcome remains uncertain. As for predictions, horoscopes and things are most appreciated by those with weak Ni. Competence in the function regularly proves the byzantine complexity of multiple changing variables. The approach of Ne is therefore to select several of many possibilities and try them, with no attachment to outcomes if results are bad --'throw everything at the wall and see what sticks', whereas Ni mentally eliminates unlikely/flawed possibilities, which can sometimes leave a best result or a single eventuality. At other times the road remains forked however; Ni typically feels no great need to correct this because before long things will have shifted, and waiting for aspects of a situation to become clear is often the best way to decide which route is preferable. I agree that Ni implies a sort of frenetic mind, but without the resultant neuroticism in behaviour that would be seen if such changeability frightened the one observing it. A palm reader spreads his net wide; by contrast, ILI do not waste time making a lot of predictions when outcomes remain uncertain. In fact, putting stacked and nested conditional statements into words is a tiresome activity. Assuming I'm ILI, I'd add the analysis of a situation happens automatically --half-subconscious, it's usually gelled a bit by the time someone asks 'So what now?'. This gives the illusion of preparedness, but sometimes I've not prepared at all; it's more like id-NeTi are working in the back rooms to perform damage control, and the good solution is just ready at my fingertips when required (whereas during group brainstorming exercises I usually won't participate, and when asked what style of music I prefer or what television programmes Ive watched recently, I draw a blank). As dynamic types, ILI recognise the moment (as time moves forwards) when the situation changes -- a critical point -- after which the path no longer forks. Diversion before this point is possible, after this point it's futile. For this reason, ILI can ruminate for quite some time on a seemingly-trivial detail preceding an event if it forms a sort of 'key'. Lastly, the two quoted sentences would not be paired in any predominantly logical mind. I agree that ILI are lazy but most people will take action when it serves them, and like any NT type, ILI have a need to know why certain things happen, which includes thorough understanding of all relevant processes. To wit, if ILI successfully predicted any and therefore all outcomes, then they would no longer be subject to doubts. Doubt would at this point constitute emotional noise.

    'Prone to remembering his failures and mishaps for a long time.' -- Here at last one finds a perfectly true statement Unfortunately, I do not think this can be unique to ILI.

    'Person of habit' -- personally I'm not. I've a fair bit of trouble forming beneficial habits such as sleeping at the same hour or going to the gym on a Monday, or whatever it is. If I'm around others who are behaving properly it's easier. Then again if I'm really immersed in something, no amount of good influence can help; I'll only stop when my blood sugar has dropped and my stomach looks concave and I've got to crawl out of my dark area on trembling limbs lol

    'Dislikes unpleasant suprises' -- lol here's a shocker

    'Rarely takes the initiative in interaction himself; doesn't want to seem intrusive' --This seems so unlikely. Again perhaps I'm not the epitome of the type but I can't worry about 'seeming intrusive'; it's quite essential that I eschew sowing seeds of social anxiety because I do work best when left well alone. People have described first impressons of me as 'aloof' or 'very wealthy'; in one way or another, looking down from some sort of height. Such impressions are false; in fact I quite enjoy being proved wrong when I've ostentatiously assumed the worst in others; but if there's any sort of supercilious vibe it's not surprising people won't approach me; coming over more ~approachable wouldn't suit my aims either. Even if it seems troublesome, this behaviour pattern, far from mutually exclusive with ILI archetype, almost guarantees that I shall be the one to open communications in all cases, unless dealing with one of those testing Ep types, the sort to stick both hands into the fire to see how hot it gets. In dating, I've had enough people fancy me but wait for me to make the first move that it's come to seem propositioning is my natural role (Which isn't without comedic effect -- sometimes I have been so blind with terror when asking someone on a date that I've come over very stony-faced and been asked if I was taking the mickey lol. And the near-certainty that my feelings were mutual in a few cases did nothing to lessen the stage-fright). Viz., taking the initiative cannot possibly be uncommon for ILI, and meekly worrying about 'intrusion' instead of just reading the situation can't be too common either.


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