Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 289101112
Results 441 to 472 of 472

Thread: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood

  1. #441
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,637
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Lord Pixel I get it but those are pretty rookie mistakes that Fi polr guys would mostly make in say high school. Maybe college for ILE. I canít really imagine adults making mistakes like that and being functional. A lot of the time itís more subtle. Then again I have met a handful of really out there SLE guys.

  2. #442
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    1,406
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Fi PoLR is simply this: when someone sympathizes or resonates with your emotional state (or, contrarily, if they display the exact opposite of your emotional state), you are more likely to give no resistance to their request -- or it's more likely that your emotional state will be altered by the other person.

    Fi PoLR has little to nothing to do with being socially acceptable or a rude asshole.

    There are plenty of people with strong Fi who are complete jerks.
    Last edited by Aramas; 01-16-2020 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #443
    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    wabbit hole
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,064
    Mentioned
    222 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    probably easiest way to demonstrate Fi PoLR is to listen when ILE is suddenly talking about hypothetical nth order rate law of kinetics because that juices him up. You really need to search people who can really find some sort of personal meaning in it but hey I know SEI's who get jazzed up and paradoxically even ILI's. SLI's otoh tend to scratch their head and LII's just are puzzled by their detachment of lyfe but..
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  4. #444

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    648
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Fi PoLR is simply this: when someone sympathizes or resonates with your emotional state (or, contrarily, if they display the exact opposite of your emotional state), you are more likely to give no resistance to their request -- or it's more likely that your emotional state will be altered by the other person.

    Fi PoLR has little to nothing to do with being socially acceptable or a rude asshole.

    There are plenty of people with strong Fi who are complete jerks.
    Fi PoLR has alot to do with being a rude asshole that doesn't know they are being a rude asshole, or doesn't care. Just like Se PoLR has alot to do with XII being a push over or too passive and afraid of confrontation. I understand trying to defend types and what not, I truly get it, I don't want to or like to generalize, but I have experienced it first hand way to well to say it has nothing to do with it, it's not all that as to do with it ofc but it definitely has to do with it. And ofc goes without saying all types can be jerks.

  5. #445
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,637
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Fi PoLR is simply this: when someone sympathizes or resonates with your emotional state (or, contrarily, if they display the exact opposite of your emotional state), you are more likely to give no resistance to their request -- or it's more likely that your emotional state will be altered by the other person.

    Fi PoLR has little to nothing to do with being socially acceptable or a rude asshole.

    There are plenty of people with strong Fi who are complete jerks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Fi PoLR has alot to do with being a rude asshole that doesn't know they are being a rude asshole, or doesn't care. Just like Se PoLR has alot to do with XII being a push over or too passive and afraid of confrontation. I understand trying to defend types and what not, I truly get it, I don't want to or like to generalize, but I have experienced it first hand way to well to say it has nothing to do with it, it's not all that as to do with it ofc but it definitely has to do with it. And ofc goes without saying all types can be jerks.
    I think these are both true in a sense and are related. If you think about it, if you just let yourself be bowled over by the emotions of others all the time it builds up and you have to assert yourself in retaliation, which leads to wanting to be an asshole in self-defense / for revenge in many cases.

  6. #446
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    1,406
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think these are both true in a sense and are related. If you think about it, if you just let yourself be bowled over by the emotions of others all the time it builds up and you have to assert yourself in retaliation, which leads to wanting to be an asshole in self-defense / for revenge in many cases.
    I can see the retaliatory perspective. Se polrs are similar in how they use force sometimes.

  7. #447
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,637
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I can see the retaliatory perspective. Se polrs are similar in how they use force sometimes.
    What other reasons can you think of for Fi polrs leading to being seen as rude assholes? Is it mostly that, or something else? Because I do think @Lord Pixel is right in that there’s a real correlation, at least with how we’re being perceived by others, that can’t just be ignored.

  8. #448
    remiges's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    111
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Perhaps if you yourself do not know how your internal state relates to something said, you can’t realize it’s effect on others’ internal states?

  9. #449
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,637
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remiges View Post
    Perhaps if you yourself do not know how your internal state relates to something said, you canít realize itís effect on othersí internal states?
    I think thatís very close. Itís probably more like whatís said/done before it is executed (due to lower Ni or Sióless experience there as well).

    I think not knowing how oneís internal state *relates* to what is said would be more like Fe polr (although, Fi polr and other logical types more likely wouldnít be that great at it either). Ep types who are good at seeing external static relationships should be able to see how those things relate more easily if they are made conscious of them.

    I think it has to do with lowered consciousness about oneís own, and othersí internal states (lower Ni, Si, Fi) in a more general sense. Not knowing how things relate is definitely one part of it, but a minor one IMO in the grand scheme of things. Basically we are more likely to be callous or unaware towards our own and othersí internal states, and if they are being manipulated or altered subconsciously by our environment we canít control it as much, so we are more likely to just regurgitate bullshit without even thinking about it. I do think that Fi polr represents a person who has learned or decided, and/or was made to become callous towards themselves and by extension others, for various possible reasons. It doesnít mean that we canít, but we are extremely adverse to accessing that deeper part of ourselves for whatever reason, because itís like a minefield at times full of AIDS-soaked shards of glass. Maybe Iíll post more later if I have more thoughts.

    @Heretic 007 @mu4 Please inform if you have any feedback.

  10. #450
    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    wabbit hole
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,064
    Mentioned
    222 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    OK, I can give you real example with ESI. ESI: "I don't get your relations. You just put out analytical interpretation." As I was discussing it seemed like the person (ESI) couldn't understand my relations and as a matter of fact not many can. How I see it internally? I'm fairly secure and do not ask questions and I know how the person is functioning logically but I just don't have lot of interests in winning or loosing in personal game. I care more about the person than I care how he/she relates to me. So I do things for free without expecting payback and it can be quite heavy mouthed honesty not in terms what they do but what the action might give. It is quite hard to just be friends in terms of picking up lice from each others fur which is what most people do.

    Fi PoLRs can be quite huge cry babies when something dies but for me it is because it represents that person's/animal's lost irreversible potential state + possible connections and not because of my own relations. Yeah, my dead mother mainly reminds me of her lost life which makes me very sad and in there lies some personal caveats regarding relating to others and being scared of disturbing potentialities by taking part in it.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  11. #451
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,637
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I know how the person is functioning logically but I just don't have lot of interests in winning or loosing in personal game. I care more about the person than I care how he/she relates to me.” I’m like this too @Heretic 007 . I forgot it was even a thing people cared about, and even when reminded it’s still hard for me to wrap my head around it.

    It’s relatively recent for me that I care about how people interact with me now based on how close I perceive them to be to me and levels of appropriate interaction for that. I’m really 100% maxing out my Fe for doing that lol. I’m trying to create stronger, more appropriate boundaries for people. I find people can’t just follow those by themselves a lot of the time. You have to go out of their way to make them do it (idk, maybe psychological boundaries enforcing is easier for intuitive types though).

  12. #452
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,637
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I can give a clear example of low Fi and Si in ILE by an interaction I witnessed between a Korean ILE girl and Japanese ESI guy. There was conversation about a park filled with deer in Japan amongst a group of people. The Korean ILE girl naively, innocently asked if people eat deer in Japan. Immediately the ESI guy gave the nastiest, most disgusted and Fi butthurt offended/appalled facial expression towards that comment possible lol. An EIE girl who presumably saw the guy’s face then hesitantly explained to the ILE girl that no, they weren’t being eaten lol.

  13. #453
    Haikus bouncingoffclouds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Psychedelic Dream Castle in Outer Space
    TIM
    E4Melancholic/NFprob
    Posts
    1,158
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    That's a cute story @sbbds Kind of also reminds me of my nephew who I think is ILE, he will say the damnedest things with no hesitation lol.

  14. #454
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,099
    Mentioned
    650 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think thatís very close. Itís probably more like whatís said/done before it is executed (due to lower Ni or Sióless experience there as well).

    I think not knowing how oneís internal state *relates* to what is said would be more like Fe polr (although, Fi polr and other logical types more likely wouldnít be that great at it either). Ep types who are good at seeing external static relationships should be able to see how those things relate more easily if they are made conscious of them.

    I think it has to do with lowered consciousness about oneís own, and othersí internal states (lower Ni, Si, Fi) in a more general sense. Not knowing how things relate is definitely one part of it, but a minor one IMO in the grand scheme of things. Basically we are more likely to be callous or unaware towards our own and othersí internal states, and if they are being manipulated or altered subconsciously by our environment we canít control it as much, so we are more likely to just regurgitate bullshit without even thinking about it. I do think that Fi polr represents a person who has learned or decided, and/or was made to become callous towards themselves and by extension others, for various possible reasons. It doesnít mean that we canít, but we are extremely adverse to accessing that deeper part of ourselves for whatever reason, because itís like a minefield at times full of AIDS-soaked shards of glass. Maybe Iíll post more later if I have more thoughts.

    @Heretic 007 @mu4 Please inform if you have any feedback.
    I think I'm more on the emotional monitoring spectrum, but I never really know what to do about it nor my own internal state. What I do is I test people by pushing their buttons and ignoring their boundaries, usually it's playful but if it's someone I see as untrustworthy or dangerous, it's more as a way to ramp up pressure and make them show their true colors and emotions. I'm pretty disconnected from my own feelings when I do this and it often leads me into relationship troubles. I do this a lot more at a close psychological distance than at a far one, I think the stakes are higher and I get triggered.

  15. #455

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    648
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    What other reasons can you think of for Fi polrs leading to being seen as rude assholes? Is it mostly that, or something else? Because I do think @Lord Pixel is right in that there’s a real correlation, at least with how we’re being perceived by others, that can’t just be ignored.
    I agree I think there is a difference between someone being an asshole and someone just being perceived as an asshole. A good example of someone being perceived as an insensitive asshole - an older co-worker recently died at my job , in a work meeting we talked about it for a bit and an ISTj just said " Everybody dies, it happens." and the room just got really awkwardly silent because this guy was so cold hearted to such a recent death. He wasn't trying to be an asshole, or actually being one but ppl wud just label him one because of how insensitive his statement was and he didn't seem to care about it, I guess to strong lack of F is what would make ppl call him an asshole, feeling alienated from him because how could he say that without feeling bad, it's the cognitive dissonance people are trying to make sense of when they call him an asshole, "Why are you not affected by this the way the rest of us are, or are at least faking to be affected by it".

    And then you have actual assholes. I want to entertain myself even if it means fucking with you, and I don't really care if it bother's you or not it's all for my pleasure and enjoyment, actually I probably can't even see if it bother's you or not until you say something. I keep expecting Fi PoLR to think "if I don't want this done to me then I shouldn't do that to other people." and I feel like that's the big disconnect for me. Alot of the times the actions that have bugged me the most were one's that someone would do to someone else but not tolerate being done to them.

    If you need examples of that just pick one from the list.


    SLE cousin in HS asked me if he could wear some of my clothes, FULLY knowing he would NEVER let me wear any of his clothes.

    ILE roommate makes fun of how long it took me to find a job after college, then gets butt hurt when I make fun of the only job he could find after college.

    SLE friend in highschool slaps me in the face, to DEMONSTRATE something that happened to his friends, FULLY knowing it would be a fight if I did that to him.

    ILE friend in college, frequently hits me, throws shit off the dirty floor from outdoors at my face after many times of me telling and yelling at him to stop, gets mad when I finally hit him back .

    ILE roommate jump scares me while I'm driving, think it's not fair when I jump scare him back "because it's dark".

    ILE roommate pulls chair from underneath me while I'm holding a bowl of food, thinks it's funny( the chair part actually was), and then thinks it would have been so much more funny if I spilled all my food and ruined my carpet, as well as wasting food and spending hours to clean up the mess. Thought it would have been soooo funny.

    ILE roommate slaps me in my face for shit and giggles from time to time, when I slap him back he slaps me back for slapping him, wtf.


    ILE friend in college, sees on the news my home country got hit with an earthquake and people died, first thing he does is make some dumb joke about a pokemon hitting the country with earthquake. Clever joke, horrible timing, and he doesn't give shit when I tell him that's fked up and alot of peopled died, laughs anyway.

    SLE cousin borrows my jacket, loses it, when I tell him I'm gonna use his jacket until he brings mine back because that's fair, he won't have it, uses his jacket anyway.

    SLE cousin tried to break my wrist when we were kids, just to see how strong he was, and when I forced him to stop, he gets mad, we fight and he tries to punch me in the face.

    I introduce ILE roommate to MBTI and he asks me if I am T or F and before I told him he says " you must be f cuz ur a bitch." Same guy who asks if he's my best friend. Same guy who has said to me " If I'm not best man at you're wedding I'm gonna kinda be offended." What?!

    In those moments my Se PoLR likes to fantasize all the ways I could scare someone if I owned a gun.


    and of course I know a number of ILEs who are not like this, they are all 40 and up.
    I know one SLE who I get along with smoothly, probably 6w7 or something idk, no issues except when working together and it's just a matter of us doing things very differently. I've also had SLE co workers where one was 8w7 and definetely did not like me, and one was 7w8 and just liked to tell you a good story of his wild adventures. It's a mixed bag but there are threads of similarities I just can't ignore at this point.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-18-2020 at 02:39 AM.

  16. #456
    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    wabbit hole
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,064
    Mentioned
    222 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    People seem to think that internally I tend to experience intensely stuff (let it even be nihilistic thoughts) but I get into deep states apathy as well when no one sees me. Probably being in all sorts of depths all the time compared to many but this is largely NTR (I have pretty good grasp of consequences so my impulsiveness even if it can be low is quite non disastrous). I have no poker face. I can not easily control myself in extreme states. My personal relations are just big and I can say weird stuff but debugging it seems much less challenging.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  17. #457
    Alonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    TIM
    LIE (C) 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    766
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    What other reasons can you think of for Fi polrs leading to being seen as rude assholes? Is it mostly that, or something else? Because I do think @Lord Pixel is right in that there’s a real correlation, at least with how we’re being perceived by others, that can’t just be ignored.
    I think part of it involves being an Fe valuer.

    A certain aspect of Fe involves making explicit emotional provocations, directly inducing an emotional state in someone else in order to receive clear cut emotional feedback, which is actionable information, e.g. > I can feel that person’s/group’s expressed sadness, and it feels bad, and so I want to make them feel better, so that we all feel better.

    High D Fe valuers excel at processing/interpreting Fe emotional feedback and using that to manipulate the emotional landscape in whichever way they so choose. If they want to raise the mood and for everyone to feel good, they can do this with nuanced and sophisticated emotional cues (e.g., capable of manifesting the difference between cheerful [happy + hopeful] and contented [happy + satisfied]. They also have high D Fi and even if not their immediate go to, can readily access their own feeling state and close the psychological distance with those around them in order to check in on everyone else’s internal feeling states, to gauge how well folks are responding to the Fe, and modulate accordingly. A high D Fe valuer might say, “I’m going to generate my own happiness, [which will cause me to] smile a lot and give pointed compliments [perhaps gleamed via Fi] that will make others feel good/happy/positive/upbeat.”

    Though Low D Fe valuers are also capable of picking up ambient emotional feedback, they don’t often possess the same nuance and sophistication when it comes to utilizing that information; their Fe provocations tend to be blunter, coarser and less refined. I liken it to being hungry (subconsciously for Fe/to feel something/to feel alive, 'fuller') and knowing that you want a good meal, but not knowing the right ingredients to go about preparing it, so you throw in random, potentially off putting flavors, and no matter the outcome, you expect others to eat it. Lol

    And edible ≠ digestible, tasty, healthy, and/or ‘good.’ Low D Fe valuers like ILEs can come off rather trollish (read: rude, offensive) because, in keeping with cognitive expectations, they're trying to elicit an emotional response (like disseminating an emotional ping over the network in order to receive a corresponding pong with data packets, thus showing a connection), just not in the way that others might want or like due to a lower capacity to differentiate Fe based information (e.g., how to raise someone's mood without causing offense). And because Low D Fe valuers also have low D Fi, they find it difficult to accurately discern their own subjective feeling state, let alone another’s feeling state, which means they may not care or even know that their Fe isn’t being positively received, and ESPECIALLY when engaging Fi valuers who aren’t inclined to explicitly broadcast their feelings. Whereas other Fe valuers, like an ESE, for example, might be more inclined to visibly wear their offense, thereby letting an ILE know unambiguously that they crossed a line.
    Last edited by Alonzo; 01-18-2020 at 05:11 AM.

  18. #458
    lkdhf qkb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    IEE DCNH-C sx/sp
    Posts
    50
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The way I see it, Fi is the "understanding of emotions" in the same way as Ti is the "understanding of facts". There is an overarching Fi context in which Fe inserts itself and that's what Fi Polrs don't get. Fe without Fi would be like being nice without knowing why or being efficient at producing a lot of shit(Te) that nobody has interest in(Ti). Fi tells why it's relevant to be nice or not with someone. I like making the Fi/Ti analogy because it actually goes deeper than one might think:

    - Different feelings have different names and there is a taxonomy, like anger, jealousy, envy, schadenfreude, would go in one box and admiration, love, tenderness, affection would go in another. These higher boxes could be called "bad" or "good" but that's for each Fi user to decide. Being able to differentiate between these emotional states, in the same way as Ti can delimitate logical concepts, is what Fi is about.
    - There is a logic and a structure to how to interact with your own emotions and those of others. You can construct if-then sentences or other stuff like that, for example:

    if Jerry told you that he likes you,
    if Jerry told you he likes Abbie less than you,
    if Jerry spends more time with Abbie than with you, (and it's accepted that he spends more time with people he likes)
    then Jerry might actually like Abbie more than you.


    You would then have a "rationale" to feel the feeling "jealousy"("wtf he even lied to me!"), and call out Jerry on his behaviour.


    These mental processes are mostly absent in Fi-Polrs(and Fi-inf too sometimes). A lot of times they don't know what they feel, nor what it entails. In itself, there is no problem with this if they are open to people helping them with it. I lived with a Ne-ILE and he was really open about his emotions(even if he didn't know what to do with them):

    He(coming home): Man, I'm such a bad person!/Hey, do you think I will find a girlfriend one day?
    Me: Shit man! Seems like you feel GUILTY/LONELY (Fi analysis)
    He: I don't know...
    Me: OK, don't worry you're an awesome guy/hey, let's get some drinks in the city and check out some girls dude! (Fe solution)
    He:


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


    And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...?Because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh with that nonsense!

    I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.
    XLEs - Ti on the other side, they just try to completely ignore anything they feel until it becomes such a mess there is nothing I can do other than distract them from the shit that's happening inside. If I told them something like "seems like you're lonely" they would get super awkward and maybe even lash out because I'm "imposing my opinion" on them. They can be kinda toxic because not only they won't confront Fi but they are also shit at Fe, so some think Fe is just a game. Fe is then about hurling insults at each other just to get some kind of "high" instead of being emotionally receptive and try to create a positive atmosphere.
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 01-18-2020 at 02:27 PM.
    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
    Gsbolmjo E. Spptfwfmu

  19. #459
    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    wabbit hole
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,064
    Mentioned
    222 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    if Jerry told you that he likes you,
    if Jerry told you he likes Abbie less than you,
    if Jerry spends more time with Abbie than with you, (and it's accepted that he spends more time with people he likes)
    then Jerry might actually like Abbie more than you.


    You would then have a "rationale" to feel the feeling "jealousy"("wtf he even lied to me!"), and call out Jerry on his behaviour.


    These mental processes are mostly absent in Fi-Polrs(and Fi-inf too sometimes).
    Well this representation already forms easy classification scheme. This information bounces back from my ear canals if it ever tries to enter in it and if it does it usually gets sorted to trash bin alongside with commercials and similar stuff. The problem here is merely reception, decoding and motivation.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  20. #460

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    648
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    Fe is then about hurling insults at each other just to get some kind of "high" instead of being emotionally receptive and try to create a positive atmosphere.
    The best way I can explain this is that with their Fe they like to create emotional explosions. Press all the buttons and see the sparks fly. My guess is for Fe valuers these explosions are exciting, like fireworks, they can experience such a wide range of emotions. While for Fi valuers, or at least Fi leading these explosions are infact explosions, inside, creating a mess, you experience deep emotions you have no control over and it's uncomfortable, and they like to make the mess and watch you deal with it. So it's very unhealthy to be around for leading Fi, because to one person it's a game and to the other it's not.

  21. #461
    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    wabbit hole
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,064
    Mentioned
    222 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    The best way I can explain this is that with their Fe they like to create emotional explosions. Press all the buttons and see the sparks fly. My guess is for Fe valuers these explosions are exciting, like fireworks, they can experience such a wide range of emotions. While for Fi valuers, or at least Fi leading these explosions are infact explosions, inside, creating a mess, you experience deep emotions you have no control over and it's uncomfortable, and they like to make the mess and watch you deal with it. So it's very unhealthy to be around for leading Fi, because to one person it's a game and to the other it's not.
    Lol this is the reason I can not see you as EII. They expect those explosions from their duals because they can not get play it out easily. It is like EII's orchestrate LSE's do the Fe role for them - being regulators for highs and lows.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  22. #462
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    1,490
    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    ... and an ISTj just said " Everybody dies, it happens." and the room just got really awkwardly silent...[/SPOILER]
    Eh, i can just as easily see a FE polr say something like that, and it wouldn't be out of not actually caring. I hate to bring this up and butt in as it seems like it is a painful topic and took some effort for you to put in writing. cheers

  23. #463

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    648
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Lol this is the reason I can not see you as EII. They expect those explosions from their duals because they can not get play it out easily. It is like EII's orchestrate LSE's do the Fe role for them - being regulators for highs and lows.
    LSE doesn't say things to get over the top Fe reactions and press people's buttons, they are not hungry after emotional reactions and getting pleasure from causing them. LSE uses Fe as a social lubricant, being polite, fake smiles and all that because you have to.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-30-2020 at 04:00 AM.

  24. #464

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    648
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Eh, i can just as easily see a FE polr say something like that, and it wouldn't be out of not actually caring. I hate to bring this up and butt in as it seems like it is a painful topic and took some effort for you to put in writing. cheers
    I can see it being 1D Fe whether PoLR or just suggestive. Sorry for getting all woe is me, it's just this topic yea it's something I have experienced and have tried to understand for some time now.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-20-2020 at 01:50 AM.

  25. #465
    Alonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    TIM
    LIE (C) 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    766
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    LSE doesn't say things to get over the top Fe reactions and press people's buttons, they are not hungry after emotional reactions and get pleasure from causing them. LSE uses Fe as a social lubricant, being polite, fake smiles and all that because you have to.
    Exactly. Fi valuers see feelings as subjective and personal--they are not public property and casually bandied about. Therefore, we don’t like to have our deeply held sentiments explicitly poked and prodded. That’s not a part of our cognitive expectations, which is why we might react rather negatively when Fe valuers try to stir and move us in that area. The only judgments we preferably and casually/routinely “extrovert” involve our thinking [Te]. It is not customary for Fi valuers to directly speak in/communicate feelings, e.g, “I feel sad “ or say something to make someone feel sad. We often speak in objective facts [Te] and use Fi to read between the lines, so to speak.

    An Fi valuer could be telling me about how sick their elderly parent is and the difficult things they are doing to care for them but if I feel sad, it’s because I’ve put myself in their shoes and imagined how I would feel under those circumstances OR perhaps I did go through that so Fi muscle memory kicks in. We don’t try to manifest and rouse shared communal feeling [Fe], we allow each other to subjectively/authentically react to the objective information. And when Fi valuers do directly speak to our feelings (rather than express/embody them via Ne or Se), it’s usually done in some sort of “safe space” or when we’ve been pushed to the brink and they erupt.

  26. #466
    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    wabbit hole
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,064
    Mentioned
    222 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    LSE doesn't say things to get over the top Fe reactions and press people's buttons, they are not hungry after emotional reactions and get pleasure from causing them. LSE uses Fe as a social lubricant, being polite, fake smiles and all that because you have to.
    Yes, they are programmable robots controlled by EII...

    BTW Fe PoLR: ILI gets depressed by emotional pressure (but they accept Trumpish trolly Fe not assigned particular cases) and SLI can not trust relationship with people who have real expressions (but they do accept IEE chirpy fakeness).
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  27. #467

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    ILe-nE
    Posts
    226
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by

    If you need examples of that just pick one from the list.

    [SPOILER
    SLE cousin in HS asked me if he could wear some of my clothes, FULLY knowing he would NEVER let me wear any of his clothes.

    ILE roommate makes fun of how long it took me to find a job after college, then gets butt hurt when I make fun of the only job he could find after college.

    SLE friend in highschool slaps me in the face, to DEMONSTRATE something that happened to his friends, FULLY knowing it would be a fight if I did that to him.

    ILE friend in college, frequently hits me, throws shit off the dirty floor from outdoors at my face after many times of me telling and yelling at him to stop, gets mad when I finally hit him back .

    ILE roommate jump scares me while I'm driving, think it's not fair when I jump scare him back "because it's dark".

    ILE roommate pulls chair from underneath me while I'm holding a bowl of food, thinks it's funny( the chair part actually was), and then thinks it would have been so much more funny if I spilled all my food and ruined my carpet, as well as wasting food and spending hours to clean up the mess. Thought it would have been soooo funny.

    ILE roommate slaps me in my face for shit and giggles from time to time, when I slap him back he slaps me back for slapping him, wtf.


    ILE friend in college, sees on the news my home country got hit with an earthquake and people died, first thing he does is make some dumb joke about a pokemon hitting the country with earthquake. Clever joke, horrible timing, and he doesn't give shit when I tell him that's fked up and alot of peopled died, laughs anyway.

    SLE cousin borrows my jacket, loses it, when I tell him I'm gonna use his jacket until he brings mine back because that's fair, he won't have it, uses his jacket anyway.

    SLE cousin tried to break my wrist when we were kids, just to see how strong he was, and when I forced him to stop, he gets mad, we fight and he tries to punch me in the face.

    I introduce ILE roommate to MBTI and he asks me if I am T or F and before I told him he says " you must be f cuz ur a bitch." Same guy who asks if he's my best friend. Same guy who has said to me " If I'm not best man at you're wedding I'm gonna kinda be offended." What?!

    In those moments my Se PoLR likes to fantasize all the ways I could scare someone if I owned a gun.


    and of course I know a number of ILEs who are not like this, they are all 40 and up.
    I know one SLE who I get along with smoothly, probably 6w7 or something idk, no issues except when working together and it's just a matter of us doing things very differently. I've also had SLE co workers where one was 8w7 and definetely did not like me, and one was 7w8 and just liked to tell you a good story of his wild adventures. It's a mixed bag but there are threads of similarities I just can't ignore at this point.[/SPOILER]
    IEE and ILE are playful prankster ,SEE and SLE aggresive prankster. EIE LIE rude prankster.



    http://www.socionicsforum.com/vbulle...NTj-by-Beskova
    Don't take note if sometimes he may seem somewhat rude. In interaction with people he is indeed clumsy, at times making offensive remarks, other times taking offense over something. Sometimes LIE male is prone to falling into depressed state. This means that he doesn't have a real, worthwhile job or project where he could realize himself to the maximum. What can you do, everyone has their faults, but he also has many other good characteristics.

    Also you need to know that he is not the kind who solves problems "with fists", with brute force. This is a relatively soft, even a bit indecisive man, who avoids power collisions.

    From life of LIE male: "One time we went on vacation with my husband. We rented a room on first floor. Suddenly in the middle of the night I hear that someone is climbing through our window. I've gotten frightened, started to wake him up. When I managed to wake him up and explain what is happening, he turned around and politely asked" Excuse me, sir, what did you need here?"

  28. #468

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    648
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by karas View Post
    IEE and ILE are playful prankster ,SEE and SLE aggresive prankster. EIE LIE rude prankster.



    http://www.socionicsforum.com/vbulle...NTj-by-Beskova
    Don't take note if sometimes he may seem somewhat rude. In interaction with people he is indeed clumsy, at times making offensive remarks, other times taking offense over something. Sometimes LIE male is prone to falling into depressed state. This means that he doesn't have a real, worthwhile job or project where he could realize himself to the maximum. What can you do, everyone has their faults, but he also has many other good characteristics.

    Also you need to know that he is not the kind who solves problems "with fists", with brute force. This is a relatively soft, even a bit indecisive man, who avoids power collisions.

    From life of LIE male: "One time we went on vacation with my husband. We rented a room on first floor. Suddenly in the middle of the night I hear that someone is climbing through our window. I've gotten frightened, started to wake him up. When I managed to wake him up and explain what is happening, he turned around and politely asked" Excuse me, sir, what did you need here?"

    ?What?

  29. #469
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,637
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    But wouldn't asking "we're still bros, right?" show a lack of confidence in the relationship seeing as that had to be asked? High D Fi shouldn't have to ask because it's capable of accurately gauging the psychological distance between itself and others; it knows whether a relationship is still good or not.

    Fi valuers, as a group, are less inclined to openly and freely wear and share our feelings, as far as explicitly communicating them through our faces and words (unless we are authentically overcome with some sentiment). And Fe valuers, especially the low D Fi breed, rely on feelings to be clearly expressed in order to know where they stand with you--in absence of this, they might not know that they've offended you or that you're hurt/bothered. I agree with you that Fi PoLR types are likely to regret or show some degree of remorse if they know for a fact or can readily discern that they've hurt you (especially if they care about you) but I can see how this can cause some trouble when you're dealing with clashing function preferences and dimensions.

    An SLE friend once caught me shedding a thug tear (single tear drop on a stoic, dead pan face) and he told me rather callously that I'd be winning no Academy award for my unconvincing performance. lol Meanwhile, I was super embarrassed for what I believed was a moment of devastating vulnerability. He was disinclined to believe my suffering because I wasn't more histrionic and affected. I remember thinking to myself, "you, motherfucker, are not a safe space." lol But that same friend would literally kill to protect me or would give me the shirt off of his back if I needed it. And I've seen him cry with others who were crying and visibly shaken. I know that he has feelings and can respond to feelings, it's just that they have to be expressed/communicated/articulated in an unambiguous way in order for him to receive them as such--he's not going to automatically guess at someone's feeling state or perspective (like I'm also inclined not to do immediately but might do eventually, and even if wrong and completely out of my element because I actually value Fi). I don't need to be able to read the emotion on someone's face (though it is helpful), I just need their actions to be consistent with our relationship/what they allegedly feel for me. When I walk through a door, people who love me don't necessarily have to be ostensibly "happy" to see me so long as they're there to see me, which I'd take as an act of love and "happiness" with our relationship.
    I wanted to reply to this properly earlier but I’ve been a bit busy and needed to think about this. Also, my Fi polr probably got hit by this and I cried some rare non-existent Fi antimatter tears.

    I doubt the reason your friend “did not believe” your suffering was because of Fi polr alone itself, as this kind of story is something that would apply to SLEs and not ILEs usually. I believe that you were probably visibly shaken, but your friend:

    a) Was probably not good at intuition enough to know your inner workings and be able to see the impact of small outward changes on your internal states. He didn’t “know” your psychology (or maybe anybody’s) well enough.

    b) Was triggered by negative emotionality coming unexpectedly — it hit his polr, basically. When something makes you uncomfortable and insecure about yourself, you often unconsciously attack it (possibly especially if you’re SLE but I think it applies to anyone). It plays into the toxic masculinity kind of reaction too which @YXPR brought up.

    It has taken a lot of development for me to notice and respond to small changes in people and see that they mean something. Even the most Fe polr ILI has some kind of emotional output IMO, even if it’s just a very slight change in behavior. So it’s not quite visible vs. invisible. It’s about low intuition and low experience, resulting in low observational skills for what the “visible” behaviors mean in terms of people’s psychology. And also repulsion from them due to insecurity.

  30. #470
    Alonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    TIM
    LIE (C) 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    766
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I wanted to reply to this properly earlier but I’ve been a bit busy and needed to think about this. Also, my Fi polr probably got hit by this and I cried some rare non-existent Fi antimatter tears.
    lol I'm sorry. If I did hit your PoLR, then please forgive me. The low D ethical functions strike again! It really does frustrate and bother me when I unintentionally offend or hurt someone due to a lack of sensitivity or not adequately gauging how someone might respond to my words. This is why I continue to have love, empathy and sympathy for my low D ethical brethren, because I understand that most of the time, our verbal recklessness is neither intentional nor "personal" though it can understandably feel that way to others. I've struggled with this throughout my life because it's fairly easy [and lazy] to be written off as mean, a "bad person," a callous jerk, an unfeeling asshole, etc... when, from our vantage point, we're simply "telling it like it is," which, ironically, is how we attempt to help and show care. I especially hate the "unfeeling" label because that's rather dehumanizing and untrue--there's no question that we feel, it's more about 1.) the depth and breadth of the feeling, 2.) whether or not we can accurately recognize/identify/label what it is we're feeling and 3.) to what degree we will allow those feelings to influence our decisions/actions/behaviors.

    I think that, on average, ethical types have more powerful and efficient emotional processing capabilities that probably give them greater overall balance--speaking for myself, I'm usually either relatively out of touch with whatever it is I'm feeling in the moment [sometimes due to consciously ignoring my feelings] OR, particularly in times of maximum stress, over reacting and being hyper sensitive because of accumulated emotional baggage that's become too heavy and burdensome and is subsequently spilling out all over the place. And on my own, it's very difficult and exhausting to sift through the emotional confusion in order to come to some definitive conclusion concerning the culprit and solution, which is why I often choose to ignore/put off doing that in the first place!

    Does being Fi PoLR and a woman (considering possible societal pressures and gender expectations) ever factor into some of your frustration?

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I doubt the reason your friend “did not believe” your suffering was because of Fi polr alone itself, as this kind of story is something that would apply to SLEs and not ILEs usually. I believe that you were probably visibly shaken, but your friend:

    a) Was probably not good at intuition enough to know your inner workings and be able to see the impact of small outward changes on your internal states. He didn’t “know” your psychology (or maybe anybody’s) well enough.

    b) Was triggered by negative emotionality coming unexpectedly — it hit his polr, basically. When something makes you uncomfortable and insecure about yourself, you often unconsciously attack it (possibly especially if you’re SLE but I think it applies to anyone). It plays into the toxic masculinity kind of reaction too which @YXPR brought up.

    It has taken a lot of development for me to notice and respond to small changes in people and see that they mean something. Even the most Fe polr ILI has some kind of emotional output IMO, even if it’s just a very slight change in behavior. So it’s not quite visible vs. invisible. It’s about low intuition and low experience, resulting in low observational skills for what the “visible” behaviors mean in terms of people’s psychology. And also repulsion from them due to insecurity.
    Yeah, this all sounds pretty legit, I think you're right.

  31. #471
    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    TIM
    SLE
    Posts
    2,637
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    lol I'm sorry. If I did hit your PoLR, then please forgive me. The low D ethical functions strike again! It really does frustrate and bother me when I unintentionally offend or hurt someone due to a lack of sensitivity or not adequately gauging how someone might respond to my words. This is why I continue to have love, empathy and sympathy for my low D ethical brethren, because I understand that most of the time, our verbal recklessness is neither intentional nor "personal" though it can understandably feel that way to others. I've struggled with this throughout my life because it's fairly easy [and lazy] to be written off as mean, a "bad person," a callous jerk, an unfeeling asshole, etc... when, from our vantage point, we're simply "telling it like it is," which, ironically, is how we attempt to help and show care. I especially hate the "unfeeling" label because that's rather dehumanizing and untrue--there's no question that we feel, it's more about 1.) the depth and breadth of the feeling, 2.) whether or not we can accurately recognize/identify/label what it is we're feeling and 3.) to what degree we will allow those feelings to influence our decisions/actions/behaviors.

    I think that, on average, ethical types have more powerful and efficient emotional processing capabilities that probably give them greater overall balance--speaking for myself, I'm usually either relatively out of touch with whatever it is I'm feeling in the moment [sometimes due to consciously ignoring my feelings] OR, particularly in times of maximum stress, over reacting and being hyper sensitive because of accumulated emotional baggage that's become too heavy and burdensome and is subsequently spilling out all over the place. And on my own, it's very difficult and exhausting to sift through the emotional confusion in order to come to some definitive conclusion concerning the culprit and solution, which is why I often choose to ignore/put off doing that in the first place!
    Ohh I know that feel lol

    Does being Fi PoLR and a woman (considering possible societal pressures and gender expectations) ever factor into some of your frustration?
    I used to be afraid that I wouldnít be able to bond properly with kids if I had themóa basic motherly task, but after enough experience around kids, I knew that wouldnít be the case.

    If anything I think being a woman softens the effect. Iím less likely to say shitty things to other people for fun, which seems to be actively expected from guys. So I donít have society feeding negative behaviors really. Makes my ethics better so Iím less frustrated in those situations. If I were a guy I might get myself in jail. Also Iím simply cuter and fluffier than the average man as a woman, so even if I said really nasty shit, my ďemotionalĒ opinion would still be somehow more valued and less of a threat IMO. Like a baby giving you the middle finger.
    Last edited by sbbds; 01-29-2020 at 12:05 PM.

  32. #472
    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    wabbit hole
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,064
    Mentioned
    222 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Anyway I have hard time following this huge exaggerated PoLR which is supposed to be more like "meh dude" effect in the shadows of base Fe bases who are the hysterics and also way way below after creative, demonstrative and maybe role Fe it comes to play.

    It just means being irrational truther over feeling.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 289101112

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •