How about ILEs @BandD ?
IME it takes form of Doc Brown. ILE's are oblivious when it comes to burning need to latch long term with other individuals in their life which ultimately extends to not seeing others need for it. It merely serves as nostalgic component.
Measuring you right now
Winning is for losers
I work with an ILE and an SEI, and I've told the ILE that the SEI is his dual and he should spend more time with her because her type is his best match. His reply is "Huh? You talking to me?" It is like he sees her, but he doesn't connect with her. Heck, he doesn't connect with anyone, except perhaps a male LII that he goes drinking with.
He's pushing 40 and I once asked him when he's going to get married. He gave me a blank look (man, I find it so disturbing - like there's no one home in the castle) and said "Maybe when I'm 50." Lol. Right. When the rest of your teeth have fallen out, you'll be a catch then.
I got a call from a second ILE asking me for some help. He found my name somehow because we had both worked for the same spectrograph company, me long ago, and him last year, so I drove over to his house to see what he wanted. His SEI wife met me at the door and brought me into their kitchen, where the ILE was waiting. He and I talked for a while, mostly about what a rat the president of the spectrograph company was. The ILE had had a mental breakdown while unsuccessfully trying for weeks to service a unit in Japan, and had been fired, and now he wanted revenge. He had an idea for improving the spectrograph (which was pretty good, really) and needed someone familiar with the unit to design the parts he didn't understand. He wanted to start a company to compete with the spectrograph company, which, because their design is so bad, is a strategy that might actually work.
I was enjoying the Socionics aspects of the situation, and I also thought it would be nice to throw a wrench into the spectrograph company, and I had some spare time, so I told him I could design his spectrograph (in a few hours on the weekend, just for the hell of it) for a price, and I named a price that would make it worth my while. My free time isn't free, really.
The price was too high, but he thanked me for visiting him.
He had decided that he'd prefer to take two years to figure out how to design a specialized instrument himself (and would probably become distracted in that time), rather than just pay someone who could provide him with a solution in a day or two. He figured that he didn't need me. He wanted to do it all himself.
This is why ILE's are great inventors and terrible Capitalists. And why they take forever to get to a simple goal. Like marriage. That Ne with Fi-PoLR is a bitch.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-28-2019 at 10:45 AM.
It seems like she only talks to me when she wants someone to complain about her shit to (which includes other people, who I like, and sometimes also includes me amazingly). She literally tells our managers that she pours out all her shit to me. Don’t just have your free lunch and then take a big shit in the box. Everything has its consequences.
that sounds almost nice like, you don't even know if you like the person or not, so you can't really have... really bad feelings/resentments/high annoyance?
4 core, sx/so. Melancholic, Negotiator, Explorer
bouncingoffclouds, I almost instantly like my Benefactors, regardless of what kind of human being they objectively are. I can't easily see their faults. I mean, I theoretically know what other people say about IEE's and it's not all good, but those things don't bother me that much in the face of the subjective impression they make.
We can be stupidly stubborn in the face of reason. Half the LIE's just don't trust other people at all. We suck at making people feel comfortable and many of us say way too much about what we are thinking, regardless of how it affects other people.
I have to stop here, otherwise I'd be typing all night.
Adam Strange lol (my case anyway).
This is somewhat true for all types/people I interact with. Occasionally I will get confused like this if the person gives me a lot of contradictory information in terms of whether they seem to want to get closer to me or not.
It’s hard to make me resent people or have bad feelings towards them for a long time. I’m pretty out of sight out of mind about this stuff. You’d need to do something either directly annoying to me repeatedly, or really unprincipled without remorse to make me feel dislike towards you.
I actually realized that my benefactor is ESE as a result of your post @Adam Strange . I realized I hadn't really looked into that and I feel it is beneficial to have obtained this knowledge. I'm pretty sure I had an ESE trainer yesterday and while in my annoyed due to other reasons state, I found her a bit over the top, I soon found myself charmed by her and couldn't stop noticing how pretty she was up close.
4 core, sx/so. Melancholic, Negotiator, Explorer
Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.
And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...?Because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh with that nonsense!
I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-10-2020 at 08:55 AM.
@sbbds could it be that she thinks of that as praise? maybe in her mind it seems that disclosing that to your superiors gives you confidentiality/inclusiveness points? have you typed them?
honest labor needs no master
Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.
Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης
This thread reminds me of this news I read, about this brash, womanizing, millionaire, Yuan Gang, who had 100 girlfriends and he got murdered by his cousin and his body got chopped up into pieces all because he wanted to marry his cousin's daughter, and the daughter is already married to another man.
That wealthy man who got murdered is an SLE. He is quite misunderstood indeed, he fell in love with his dual type who happens to be his family member and he wanted to marry her but instead he ended up getting killed for having such incestuous desires.
The reality is XLE's are very protective of people, the whole fucking description of XLE is that they go out of their way to protect people they care about.
Also the second part describes victim mentality, which is a totally different dynamic than the straight forward way Fi polrs operate.
It's also much more comfortable for EXFX to act this way because they feel confidant in their ability to manage relations vs Fi polrs. Fi polr types tend have serious problems letting loose, and they are much more reserved unless they're trying to accomplish something.
This LIE coworker of mine has also complained to me about her own friends, which is hella ratchet and unappealing. She’s told me that she dislikes our SEE manager as a person. This SEE is someone I have to deal with for half the week, and everybody else I know at my workplace likes him, including me so far. Meanwhile, this LIE and I are not even close. She doesn’t understand regular boundaries for closeness IMO.
She smartly also disclosed to me that she hates cleaning up other people’s messes. So I left a bunch of shit for her to clean up the last time I saw her. I literally don’t give a shit anymore lol.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-10-2020 at 09:06 AM.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-10-2020 at 09:00 AM.
You can blame someone that acts like that. Just because they have Fi Polr doesn't excuse them to treat people like shit and with double standards. A healthy individual with Fi polr will try to work on these faults.
mu4 said. That would imply a person who is confident about emotions and relationships, and Fi polr is not.
Maybe I could see some people like @Number 9 large (no offense lol), or 10 year olds, acting like that at first, but if you really got hurt and you guys were bros then he’d be really embarrassed and apologize, or if you weren’t that close he’d just give up over you being offended and leave, embarrassed and weirded out I bet. But the key point here is that even really “bro” Fi polrs actually aren’t confident relationally, and if you criticize them or give them reasons to doubt themselves in this area then 9 times out of 10 they will buckle. That’s the point of PoLR.
Here’s a better example of Fi polr that shaped my self-image a lot and I’ll never forget it:
When I was around 11 years old, I had an ESI friend who used to be my best friend (but actually she betrayed me before this event, but I got over it and we still hung out), whose dad passed away when she was very young. We were playing “would you rather?” at a friend’s house, and I unconsciously asked her the question—
“Would you rather have sex with your dad, or (have it with some kind of animal or other unappealing thing)?”
And obviously she burst into tears, and then I REALIZED and felt really bad. This event mortified me for life.
So sometimes I just run my mouth and don’t think about small but often important sensitive details like this. It’s not that I don’t care, it’s that I forget or it doesn’t enter into my consciousness, so I can unintentionally come across as rough and insensitive when I’m not being careful.
Or this: A few months ago, one of my ESE managers (not the aforementioned one) was sharing about an INTx friend and date she had. He was really socially awkward and a medical student and she was outlining stories about him to us and half complaining about him. My office is pretty casual and I was tired so I wasn’t really very focused. At that point I said something like, “maybe he can discover a cure for his autism”. Then all of my coworkers went silent for a second before my manager luckily replied with something naturally and calmly.
So I accidentally joked with my BOSS that her date had autism. I’m unconsciously oriented to saying stuff to “entertain” in an Se, Fe HA way, but it’s overly unprofessional, stupid and insensitive sometimes.
I once was talking to a woman with kids from 4 different fathers about my romantic plans when I said, "... but I don't want to be one of those women who has kids from a bunch of dudes." Lol.
That's probably my worst example, but it's not the only one. I get the broader point about accidental insensitivity in general, but I'm allegedly ESI, so if u mess up you're not alone ~
Yeah I understand that other people can mess up too. I think there’s a lot that’s misunderstood about PoLR in general. It’s supposed to be a point of sensitivity for the individual. In reality though everyone messes up sometimes. I’m supposed to be Se but I’ve been a fat, weak victim before. Being sensitive and insecure can also lead people to work hard to make up for it (what usually happens with the HA) and it can lead them to end up becoming gifted in the area they used to feel weak in.
The Vulnerable function is rather like the hot water tap in your shower -- it's easy to make the water way too hot, or way too cold, but very difficult to get it "just right". For example, Vulnerable Se types are either way too passive or way too aggressive, and have a hard time being able to tell how much force is "just right" to achieve the results they want in the world. Vulnerable Fi is similar. Fi-Vulnerable types would tend to either keep everyone at too far a distance, relationally, or go overboard and suddenly consider them "best friends" like the above description. They have difficulty accurately assessing Fi matters and finding the "just right" behaviour.
The best word, I think, to describe Vulnerable function behaviour would be "clumsy".
I'm 9 years too late- but whoah. This is seriously like one of the best explanation of PoLRs I've ever heard. It's exactly like that. I remember even at work, insecure about my Te polr- making sure I do everything just right perfectly and not talking about Sonic the Hedgehog fan fiction and just being worldly and businessy and overly formal to the point where I was probably being really creepy TBH, and weirding people out because I wasn't 'lightening up' enough about anything, I would get that a lot. "Aw just lighten up" like ironically telling me to be more Fe stereotypically but it didn't seem appropriate as Te crushes *me*.
Of course Sles are capable of being mean spirited but most of the time they are just being rude. By that I mean that their behaviour isn’t necessarily coming from a bad place, they just suck at delivering their thoughts with consideration for the emotional well-being of others.
Also I think that not being comfortable with expressing their own emotions can make them more agressive. Kind of like how toxic masculinity works. Anger seems to be only emotion that doesn’t cause shame in people who think of themselves as unemotional so a lot of their statements (and sometimes actions) end up being tinted with agressivity.
Fi valuers, as a group, are less inclined to openly and freely wear and share our feelings, as far as explicitly communicating them through our faces and words (unless we are authentically overcome with some sentiment). And Fe valuers, especially the low D Fi breed, rely on feelings to be clearly expressed in order to know where they stand with you--in absence of this, they might not know that they've offended you or that you're hurt/bothered. I agree with you that Fi PoLR types are likely to regret or show some degree of remorse if they know for a fact or can readily discern that they've hurt you (especially if they care about you) but I can see how this can cause some trouble when you're dealing with clashing function preferences and dimensions.
An SLE friend once caught me shedding a thug tear (single tear drop on a stoic, dead pan face) and he told me rather callously that I'd be winning no Academy award for my unconvincing performance. lol Meanwhile, I was super embarrassed for what I believed was a moment of devastating vulnerability. He was disinclined to believe my suffering because I wasn't more histrionic and affected. I remember thinking to myself, "you, motherfucker, are not a safe space." lol But that same friend would literally kill to protect me or would give me the shirt off of his back if I needed it. And I've seen him cry with others who were crying and visibly shaken. I know that he has feelings and can respond to feelings, it's just that they have to be expressed/communicated/articulated in an unambiguous way in order for him to receive them as such--he's not going to automatically guess at someone's feeling state or perspective (like I'm also inclined not to do immediately but might do eventually, and even if wrong and completely out of my element because I actually value Fi). I don't need to be able to read the emotion on someone's face (though it is helpful), I just need their actions to be consistent with our relationship/what they allegedly feel for me. When I walk through a door, people who love me don't necessarily have to be ostensibly "happy" to see me so long as they're there to see me, which I'd take as an act of love and "happiness" with our relationship.
Last edited by Alonzo; 01-14-2020 at 06:47 AM.
That's what I was thinking after I read the responses also. I had an ILE roomate who occasionaly would ask me things like "So I'm you're best friend right?" "Where do I rank on your friend's list?" ( I know that sounds weird but in the context of the convo it wasn't). Like he had to check in with me because he wanted to know. At the time it was strange for me because I cudn't understand how he did not know considering the "vibe" between us. And that's what I mean't when I said Fi PoLR can do screwed up things to you and still ask things like "We are best friends right?" thinking you are still gonna like them after the completely screwed up thing they did, which blows my mind.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-17-2020 at 04:59 AM.
Anyway, I'm gonna stop bitching and moaning about all this because I could be here all day and even I'm getting tired of my same old complaints.