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Thread: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood

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    How about ILEs @BandD ?

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    IME it takes form of Doc Brown. ILE's are oblivious when it comes to burning need to latch long term with other individuals in their life which ultimately extends to not seeing others need for it. It merely serves as nostalgic component.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    IME it takes form of Doc Brown. ILE's are oblivious when it comes to burning need to latch long term with other individuals in their life which ultimately extends to not seeing others need for it. It merely serves as nostalgic component.
    This is an amazingly perceptive statement, and is very true, I think.

    I work with an ILE and an SEI, and I've told the ILE that the SEI is his dual and he should spend more time with her because her type is his best match. His reply is "Huh? You talking to me?" It is like he sees her, but he doesn't connect with her. Heck, he doesn't connect with anyone, except perhaps a male LII that he goes drinking with.
    He's pushing 40 and I once asked him when he's going to get married. He gave me a blank look (man, I find it so disturbing - like there's no one home in the castle) and said "Maybe when I'm 50." Lol. Right. When the rest of your teeth have fallen out, you'll be a catch then.

    I got a call from a second ILE asking me for some help. He found my name somehow because we had both worked for the same spectrograph company, me long ago, and him last year, so I drove over to his house to see what he wanted. His SEI wife met me at the door and brought me into their kitchen, where the ILE was waiting. He and I talked for a while, mostly about what a rat the president of the spectrograph company was. The ILE had had a mental breakdown while unsuccessfully trying for weeks to service a unit in Japan, and had been fired, and now he wanted revenge. He had an idea for improving the spectrograph (which was pretty good, really) and needed someone familiar with the unit to design the parts he didn't understand. He wanted to start a company to compete with the spectrograph company, which, because their design is so bad, is a strategy that might actually work.

    I was enjoying the Socionics aspects of the situation, and I also thought it would be nice to throw a wrench into the spectrograph company, and I had some spare time, so I told him I could design his spectrograph (in a few hours on the weekend, just for the hell of it) for a price, and I named a price that would make it worth my while. My free time isn't free, really.
    The price was too high, but he thanked me for visiting him.

    He had decided that he'd prefer to take two years to figure out how to design a specialized instrument himself (and would probably become distracted in that time), rather than just pay someone who could provide him with a solution in a day or two. He figured that he didn't need me. He wanted to do it all himself.
    This is why ILE's are great inventors and terrible Capitalists. And why they take forever to get to a simple goal. Like marriage. That Ne with Fi-PoLR is a bitch.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-28-2019 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    This is an amazingly perceptive statement, and is very true, I think.

    I work with an ILE and an SEI, and I've told the ILE that the SEI is his dual and he should spend more time with her because her type is his best match. His reply is "Huh? You talking to me?" It is like he sees her, but he doesn't connect with her. Heck, he doesn't connect with anyone, except perhaps a male LII that he goes drinking with.
    He's pushing 40 and I once asked him when he's going to get married. He gave me a blank look (man, I find it so disturbing - like there's no one home in the castle) and said "Maybe when I'm 50." Lol. Right. When the rest of your teeth have fallen out, you'll be a catch then.
    My sister (SEE): I met coworker's son. He was doing fine (software), quite weird and answered nah to every question about personal relationships. He was a lot like you.
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    I have this one female LIE coworker and I’m not sure if I 90% like her and 10% dislike her, or 90% dislike her and 10% like her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I have this one female LIE coworker and I’m not sure if I 90% like her and 10% dislike her, or 90% dislike her and 10% like her.
    @sbbds, this is EXACTLY how I feel about my own Benefactors, the IEE's.

    Trying to separate facts from feelings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @sbbds, this is EXACTLY how I feel about my own Benefactors, the IEE's.

    Trying to separate facts from feelings.
    Really? For me this isn’t about female LIEs (one of my best friends is one) or LIEs at all probably. It’s just about my Fi polr. I thought it was a good example. It might be part of issue here though.

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    It seems like she only talks to me when she wants someone to complain about her shit to (which includes other people, who I like, and sometimes also includes me amazingly). She literally tells our managers that she pours out all her shit to me. Don’t just have your free lunch and then take a big shit in the box. Everything has its consequences.

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    that sounds almost nice like, you don't even know if you like the person or not, so you can't really have... really bad feelings/resentments/high annoyance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    It seems like she only talks to me when she wants someone to complain about her shit to (which includes other people, who I like, and sometimes also includes me amazingly). She literally tells our managers that she pours out all her shit to me. Don’t just have your free lunch and then take a big shit in the box. Everything has its consequences.
    I see what you mean. She sounds incredibly screwed up. Are you sure she's LIE? Not that LIE's can't be screwed up, but we tend to be screwed up in different ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    that sounds almost nice like, you don't even know if you like the person or not, so you can't really have... really bad feelings/resentments/high annoyance?
    @bouncingoffclouds, I almost instantly like my Benefactors, regardless of what kind of human being they objectively are. I can't easily see their faults. I mean, I theoretically know what other people say about IEE's and it's not all good, but those things don't bother me that much in the face of the subjective impression they make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I see what you mean. She sounds incredibly screwed up. Are you sure she's LIE? Not that LIE's can't be screwed up, but we tend to be screwed up in different ways.
    Like what. It’s just dumb low Fi behavior IMO. I have never met another LIE who was this bad like her either though, so I get your confusion about this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Like what. It’s just dumb low Fi behavior IMO. I have never met another LIE who was this bad like her either though, so I get your confusion about this.
    Like, what are the ways that LIE's are fucked up? Hah. Let me count them.

    We can be stupidly stubborn in the face of reason. Half the LIE's just don't trust other people at all. We suck at making people feel comfortable and many of us say way too much about what we are thinking, regardless of how it affects other people.

    I have to stop here, otherwise I'd be typing all night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouncingoffclouds View Post
    that sounds almost nice like, you don't even know if you like the person or not, so you can't really have... really bad feelings/resentments/high annoyance?
    It’s not about my benefactors @Adam Strange lol (my case anyway).

    This is somewhat true for all types/people I interact with. Occasionally I will get confused like this if the person gives me a lot of contradictory information in terms of whether they seem to want to get closer to me or not.

    It’s hard to make me resent people or have bad feelings towards them for a long time. I’m pretty out of sight out of mind about this stuff. You’d need to do something either directly annoying to me repeatedly, or really unprincipled without remorse to make me feel dislike towards you.

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    lol Adam, it's all good. I had a giggle marking that as constructive I mean, it is constructive though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @bouncingoffclouds, I almost instantly like my Benefactors, regardless of what kind of human being they objectively are. I can't easily see their faults. I mean, I theoretically know what other people say about IEE's and it's not all good, but those things don't bother me that much in the face of the subjective impression they make.

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    I actually realized that my benefactor is ESE as a result of your post @Adam Strange . I realized I hadn't really looked into that and I feel it is beneficial to have obtained this knowledge. I'm pretty sure I had an ESE trainer yesterday and while in my annoyed due to other reasons state, I found her a bit over the top, I soon found myself charmed by her and couldn't stop noticing how pretty she was up close.

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    Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


    And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...?Because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh with that nonsense!

    I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-10-2020 at 08:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


    And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh.

    I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.
    That just sounds like a stupid asshole more than Fi Polr. But I guess Fi polr in an extreme can look like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


    And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh.

    I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.
    All ExTx types can be the way you describe...
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    @sbbds could it be that she thinks of that as praise? maybe in her mind it seems that disclosing that to your superiors gives you confidentiality/inclusiveness points? have you typed them?
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    This thread reminds me of this news I read, about this brash, womanizing, millionaire, Yuan Gang, who had 100 girlfriends and he got murdered by his cousin and his body got chopped up into pieces all because he wanted to marry his cousin's daughter, and the daughter is already married to another man.

    That wealthy man who got murdered is an SLE. He is quite misunderstood indeed, he fell in love with his dual type who happens to be his family member and he wanted to marry her but instead he ended up getting killed for having such incestuous desires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


    And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh.

    I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.
    Actually it even sounds like you're describing a EXFX in this. Fi polr don't really apologize.

    The reality is XLE's are very protective of people, the whole fucking description of XLE is that they go out of their way to protect people they care about.

    Also the second part describes victim mentality, which is a totally different dynamic than the straight forward way Fi polrs operate.

    It's also much more comfortable for EXFX to act this way because they feel confidant in their ability to manage relations vs Fi polrs. Fi polr types tend have serious problems letting loose, and they are much more reserved unless they're trying to accomplish something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinoche the Child View Post
    @sbbds could it be that she thinks of that as praise? maybe in her mind it seems that disclosing that to your superiors gives you confidentiality/inclusiveness points? have you typed them?
    The superior she disclosed that to was only one SLE actually. That SLE then disclosed that piece of info to our ESE HR boss lol.

    This LIE coworker of mine has also complained to me about her own friends, which is hella ratchet and unappealing. She’s told me that she dislikes our SEE manager as a person. This SEE is someone I have to deal with for half the week, and everybody else I know at my workplace likes him, including me so far. Meanwhile, this LIE and I are not even close. She doesn’t understand regular boundaries for closeness IMO.

    She smartly also disclosed to me that she hates cleaning up other people’s messes. So I left a bunch of shit for her to clean up the last time I saw her. I literally don’t give a shit anymore lol.

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    ,
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-10-2020 at 09:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    All ExTx types can be the way you describe...
    I haven't experienced this with all EXTXs. EXTjs have a different flavor which is much less trolly than what I described. Te is a blunt force, Ti is internal bleeding.



    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    Actually it even sounds like you're describing a EXFX in this. Fi polr don't really apologize.

    The reality is XLE's are very protective of people, the whole fucking description of XLE is that they go out of their way to protect people they care about.

    Also the second part describes victim mentality, which is a totally different dynamic than the straight forward way Fi polrs operate.

    It's also much more comfortable for EXFX to act this way because they feel confidant in their ability to manage relations vs Fi polrs. Fi polr types tend have serious problems letting loose, and they are much more reserved unless they're trying to accomplish something.
    You're right, they don't apologize, as for the rest I'm sorry but no, I'm talking about Fi PoLR.





    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    That just sounds like a stupid asshole more than Fi Polr. But I guess Fi polr in an extreme can look like that.
    Fi PoLR 7w8 does sound like a stupid asshole doesn't it? Can't blame them really, it's the way they are, just if you value Fi get far tf away from them.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-10-2020 at 09:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post











    Fi PoLR 7w8 does sound like a stupid asshole doesn't it? Can't blame them really, it's the way they are, just if you value Fi get far tf away from them.
    I guess if left unhealthy. I think a healthy person of any type would be rather pleasant to deal with or be around. Or at least one that takes time to try and be healthy.

    You can blame someone that acts like that. Just because they have Fi Polr doesn't excuse them to treat people like shit and with double standards. A healthy individual with Fi polr will try to work on these faults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    I guess if left unhealthy. I think a healthy person of any type would be rather pleasant to deal with or be around. Or at least one that takes time to try and be healthy.

    You can blame someone that acts like that. Just because they have Fi Polr doesn't excuse them to treat people like shit and with double standards. A healthy individual with Fi polr will try to work on these faults.
    Healthy for different people with different ways of thinking looks and is different. Fi PoLR 7w8 likes to play very rough, it's not unhealthy for them to do so, it's just not everybody is like that, calibration is required to know how rough you can play with someone, but when left to their natural state they find it refreshing when they meet someone they can play rough with, so I don't think it's unhealthy. The double standard thing is not conscious, they play rough but they consider it still playing so they don't expect ppl to take it seriously and actually stop liking them. It's not always the Fi PoLR person that has the double standard either, it could be anybody that see's you behaving different that you normally do, "The nice person is being mean? what?". Either way, since the PoLR is a blindspot it can't be expected that the person will actively work on the "fault". It's not doomed of course, it's just gonna take alot of you banging your head against a wall until you realize it's even there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Healthy for different people with different ways of thinking looks and is different. Fi PoLR 7w8 likes to play very rough, it's not unhealthy for them to do so, it's just not everybody is like that, calibration is required to know how rough you can play with someone, but when left to their natural state they find it refreshing when they meet someone they can play rough with, so I don't think it's unhealthy. The double standard thing is not conscious, they play rough but they consider it still playing so they don't expect ppl to take it seriously and actually stop liking them. It's not always the Fi PoLR person that has the double standard either, it could be anybody that see's you behaving different that you normally do, "The nice person is being mean? what?". Either way, since the PoLR is a blindspot it can't be expected that the person will actively work on the "fault". It's not doomed of course, it's just gonna take alot of you banging your head against a wall until you realize it's even there.
    I think if they are gonna talk about your dead mother and say “don’t be a pussy bro, we’re still bros right” and be really confident about it, and 7w8-like like that, then it’s far more likely that they’re ExFx as @mu4 said. That would imply a person who is confident about emotions and relationships, and Fi polr is not.

    Maybe I could see some people like @Number 9 large (no offense lol), or 10 year olds, acting like that at first, but if you really got hurt and you guys were bros then he’d be really embarrassed and apologize, or if you weren’t that close he’d just give up over you being offended and leave, embarrassed and weirded out I bet. But the key point here is that even really “bro” Fi polrs actually aren’t confident relationally, and if you criticize them or give them reasons to doubt themselves in this area then 9 times out of 10 they will buckle. That’s the point of PoLR.

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    Here’s a better example of Fi polr that shaped my self-image a lot and I’ll never forget it:

    When I was around 11 years old, I had an ESI friend who used to be my best friend (but actually she betrayed me before this event, but I got over it and we still hung out), whose dad passed away when she was very young. We were playing “would you rather?” at a friend’s house, and I unconsciously asked her the question—

    “Would you rather have sex with your dad, or (have it with some kind of animal or other unappealing thing)?”

    And obviously she burst into tears, and then I REALIZED and felt really bad. This event mortified me for life.

    So sometimes I just run my mouth and don’t think about small but often important sensitive details like this. It’s not that I don’t care, it’s that I forget or it doesn’t enter into my consciousness, so I can unintentionally come across as rough and insensitive when I’m not being careful.

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    Or this: A few months ago, one of my ESE managers (not the aforementioned one) was sharing about an INTx friend and date she had. He was really socially awkward and a medical student and she was outlining stories about him to us and half complaining about him. My office is pretty casual and I was tired so I wasn’t really very focused. At that point I said something like, “maybe he can discover a cure for his autism”. Then all of my coworkers went silent for a second before my manager luckily replied with something naturally and calmly.

    So I accidentally joked with my BOSS that her date had autism. I’m unconsciously oriented to saying stuff to “entertain” in an Se, Fe HA way, but it’s overly unprofessional, stupid and insensitive sometimes.

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    I once was talking to a woman with kids from 4 different fathers about my romantic plans when I said, "... but I don't want to be one of those women who has kids from a bunch of dudes." Lol.
    That's probably my worst example, but it's not the only one. I get the broader point about accidental insensitivity in general, but I'm allegedly ESI, so if u mess up you're not alone ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I once was talking to a woman with kids from 4 different fathers about my romantic plans when I said, "... but I don't want to be one of those women who has kids from a bunch of dudes." Lol.
    That's probably my worst example, but it's not the only one. I get the broader point about accidental insensitivity in general, but I'm allegedly ESI, so if u mess up you're not alone ~
    LOL

    Yeah I understand that other people can mess up too. I think there’s a lot that’s misunderstood about PoLR in general. It’s supposed to be a point of sensitivity for the individual. In reality though everyone messes up sometimes. I’m supposed to be Se but I’ve been a fat, weak victim before. Being sensitive and insecure can also lead people to work hard to make up for it (what usually happens with the HA) and it can lead them to end up becoming gifted in the area they used to feel weak in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think if they are gonna talk about your dead mother and say “don’t be a pussy bro, we’re still bros right” and be really confident about it, and 7w8-like like that, then it’s far more likely that they’re ExFx as @mu4 said. That would imply a person who is confident about emotions and relationships, and Fi polr is not.

    Maybe I could see some people like @Number 9 large (no offense lol), or 10 year olds, acting like that at first, but if you really got hurt and you guys were bros then he’d be really embarrassed and apologize, or if you weren’t that close he’d just give up over you being offended and leave, embarrassed and weirded out I bet. But the key point here is that even really “bro” Fi polrs actually aren’t confident relationally, and if you criticize them or give them reasons to doubt themselves in this area then 9 times out of 10 they will buckle. That’s the point of PoLR.
    That example wasn't the best, but I'm talking about an Fi PoLR and their ability to say really fucked up things and not think or blink and eye and think it's funny. And the 7w8 really makes them enjoy getting under your skin. And they call you a pussy simply because you have Fi and they can't relate to silent "hurt feelings" "being butthurt" and all that, only huge tear drops coming out your face is when it's clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    That example wasn't the best, but I'm talking about an Fi PoLR and their ability to say really fucked up things and not think or blink and eye and think it's funny. And the 7w8 really makes them enjoy getting under your skin. And they call you a pussy simply because you have Fi and they can't relate to silent "hurt feelings" "being butthurt" and all that, only huge tear drops coming out your face is when it's clear.
    Have you tried telling them that they are a douchebag and you won’t be their friend anymore?

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    The Vulnerable function is rather like the hot water tap in your shower -- it's easy to make the water way too hot, or way too cold, but very difficult to get it "just right". For example, Vulnerable Se types are either way too passive or way too aggressive, and have a hard time being able to tell how much force is "just right" to achieve the results they want in the world. Vulnerable Fi is similar. Fi-Vulnerable types would tend to either keep everyone at too far a distance, relationally, or go overboard and suddenly consider them "best friends" like the above description. They have difficulty accurately assessing Fi matters and finding the "just right" behaviour.

    The best word, I think, to describe Vulnerable function behaviour would be "clumsy".


    I'm 9 years too late- but whoah. This is seriously like one of the best explanation of PoLRs I've ever heard. It's exactly like that. I remember even at work, insecure about my Te polr- making sure I do everything just right perfectly and not talking about Sonic the Hedgehog fan fiction and just being worldly and businessy and overly formal to the point where I was probably being really creepy TBH, and weirding people out because I wasn't 'lightening up' enough about anything, I would get that a lot. "Aw just lighten up" like ironically telling me to be more Fe stereotypically but it didn't seem appropriate as Te crushes *me*.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Did I post in here already? Fi PoLR. Oh you mean that thing where ppl bully you and can't see what's wrong with that? AND expect you to still like them, And get mad when you show favorable treatment to other people over them, because of Fe HA or whatever the hell is going on. "Hey I said that thing about your dead mother, don't be a pussy bro, I was just fking around, we're still bros right?" Oh yea, fuck that shit.


    And Fi PoLR can act all day like they are immune to getting offended, until you say the thing that offends them, then oh my god you're being mean to the mean person. And you are supposed to care because...?Because you're an ethical type and are not normally mean, so this isn't everyday behavior for you, they can be like that but you shouldn't be. It's normal when they're an asshole but weird when you are. gtfoh with that nonsense!

    I'm fighting the urge to apologize and leave disclaimers for all the exceptions but you know the drill.
    This is harsh but I can understand where you’re coming from. Sles can definitely bully people without even realising it. I had a teacher recently who would consistently make jokes about me and about an sle student in class. He was relentless with it. Anytime we would do or say something he would have a remark to make about it. We responded well to it so it wasn’t a problem but other students could have taken offense to it and it would have been a whole other story. The thing is that it didn’t come from a bad place at all. It was very obvious that we were his favorite students actually.

    Of course Sles are capable of being mean spirited but most of the time they are just being rude. By that I mean that their behaviour isn’t necessarily coming from a bad place, they just suck at delivering their thoughts with consideration for the emotional well-being of others.

    Also I think that not being comfortable with expressing their own emotions can make them more agressive. Kind of like how toxic masculinity works. Anger seems to be only emotion that doesn’t cause shame in people who think of themselves as unemotional so a lot of their statements (and sometimes actions) end up being tinted with agressivity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I think if they are gonna talk about your dead mother and say “don’t be a pussy bro, we’re still bros right” and be really confident about it, and 7w8-like like that, then it’s far more likely that they’re ExFx as @mu4 said. That would imply a person who is confident about emotions and relationships, and Fi polr is not.

    Maybe I could see some people like @Number 9 large (no offense lol), or 10 year olds, acting like that at first, but if you really got hurt and you guys were bros then he’d be really embarrassed and apologize, or if you weren’t that close he’d just give up over you being offended and leave, embarrassed and weirded out I bet. But the key point here is that even really “bro” Fi polrs actually aren’t confident relationally, and if you criticize them or give them reasons to doubt themselves in this area then 9 times out of 10 they will buckle. That’s the point of PoLR.
    But wouldn't asking "we're still bros, right?" show a lack of confidence in the relationship seeing as that had to be asked? High D Fi shouldn't have to ask because it's capable of accurately gauging the psychological distance between itself and others; it knows whether a relationship is still good or not.

    Fi valuers, as a group, are less inclined to openly and freely wear and share our feelings, as far as explicitly communicating them through our faces and words (unless we are authentically overcome with some sentiment). And Fe valuers, especially the low D Fi breed, rely on feelings to be clearly expressed in order to know where they stand with you--in absence of this, they might not know that they've offended you or that you're hurt/bothered. I agree with you that Fi PoLR types are likely to regret or show some degree of remorse if they know for a fact or can readily discern that they've hurt you (especially if they care about you) but I can see how this can cause some trouble when you're dealing with clashing function preferences and dimensions.

    An SLE friend once caught me shedding a thug tear (single tear drop on a stoic, dead pan face) and he told me rather callously that I'd be winning no Academy award for my unconvincing performance. lol Meanwhile, I was super embarrassed for what I believed was a moment of devastating vulnerability. He was disinclined to believe my suffering because I wasn't more histrionic and affected. I remember thinking to myself, "you, motherfucker, are not a safe space." lol But that same friend would literally kill to protect me or would give me the shirt off of his back if I needed it. And I've seen him cry with others who were crying and visibly shaken. I know that he has feelings and can respond to feelings, it's just that they have to be expressed/communicated/articulated in an unambiguous way in order for him to receive them as such--he's not going to automatically guess at someone's feeling state or perspective (like I'm also inclined not to do immediately but might do eventually, and even if wrong and completely out of my element because I actually value Fi). I don't need to be able to read the emotion on someone's face (though it is helpful), I just need their actions to be consistent with our relationship/what they allegedly feel for me. When I walk through a door, people who love me don't necessarily have to be ostensibly "happy" to see me so long as they're there to see me, which I'd take as an act of love and "happiness" with our relationship.
    Last edited by Alonzo; 01-14-2020 at 06:47 AM.

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    I saw it as a trolly rhetorical question lol @Alonzo . If it were a genuine question then yes Fi polr lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonzo View Post
    But wouldn't asking "we're still bros, right?" show a lack of confidence in the relationship seeing as that had to be asked? High D Fi shouldn't have to ask because it's capable of accurately gauging the psychological distance between itself and others; it knows whether a relationship is still good or not.

    Fi valuers, as a group, are less inclined to openly and freely wear and share our feelings, as far as explicitly communicating them through our faces and words (unless we are authentically overcome with some sentiment). And Fe valuers, especially the low D Fi breed, rely on feelings to be clearly expressed in order to know where they stand with you--in absence of this, they might not know that they've offended you or that you're hurt/bothered. I agree with you that Fi PoLR types are likely to regret or show some degree of remorse if they know for a fact or can readily discern that they've hurt you (especially if they care about you) but I can see how this can cause some trouble when you're dealing with clashing function preferences and dimensions.

    An SLE friend once caught me shedding a thug tear (single tear drop on a stoic, dead pan face) and he told me rather callously that I'd be winning no Academy award for my unconvincing performance. lol Meanwhile, I was super embarrassed for what I believed was a moment of devastating vulnerability. He was disinclined to believe my suffering because I wasn't more histrionic and affected. I remember thinking to myself, "you, motherfucker, are not a safe space." lol But that same friend would literally kill to protect me or would give me the shirt off of his back if I needed it. And I've seen him cry with others who were crying and visibly shaken. I know that he has feelings and can respond to feelings, it's just that they have to be expressed/communicated/articulated in an unambiguous way in order for him to receive them as such--he's not going to automatically guess at someone's feeling state or perspective (like I'm also inclined not to do immediately but might do eventually, and even if wrong and completely out of my element because I actually value Fi). I don't need to be able to read the emotion on someone's face (though it is helpful), I just need their actions to be consistent with our relationship/what they allegedly feel for me. When I walk through a door, people who love me don't necessarily have to be ostensibly "happy" to see me so long as they're there to see me, which I'd take as an act of love and "happiness" with our relationship.

    That's what I was thinking after I read the responses also. I had an ILE roomate who occasionaly would ask me things like "So I'm you're best friend right?" "Where do I rank on your friend's list?" ( I know that sounds weird but in the context of the convo it wasn't). Like he had to check in with me because he wanted to know. At the time it was strange for me because I cudn't understand how he did not know considering the "vibe" between us. And that's what I mean't when I said Fi PoLR can do screwed up things to you and still ask things like "We are best friends right?" thinking you are still gonna like them after the completely screwed up thing they did, which blows my mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Have you tried telling them that they are a douchebag and you won’t be their friend anymore?
    Yes and they look at me like "We're not friends anymore....?" sad look. Like wtf it's not my fault ur an asshat, they should have seen that coming. But my guess is Fi PoLR can't really see how their actions influence the relationship or something? Or where the relationship stands if the F is silent, which makes sense except treating someone like shit and not knowing they are gonna bail on you (even if they never say anything about how you treat them) is kinda like....how do you not see that coming? But it's probably all the nature of the PoLR.




    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post


    I'm 9 years too late- but whoah. This is seriously like one of the best explanation of PoLRs I've ever heard. It's exactly like that. I remember even at work, insecure about my Te polr- making sure I do everything just right perfectly and not talking about Sonic the Hedgehog fan fiction and just being worldly and businessy and overly formal to the point where I was probably being really creepy TBH, and weirding people out because I wasn't 'lightening up' enough about anything, I would get that a lot. "Aw just lighten up" like ironically telling me to be more Fe stereotypically but it didn't seem appropriate as Te crushes *me*.
    That quote about vulnerable Fi make ssooooo muuuuuuccch seeeeeense. Yes I've see the 0-60 best friends behavior, it's like whiplash. And of course I know what PoLR Se is like, someone busts your balls, at first it's funny haha, then after a few hundred times of you doing nothing someone says "One day he is gonna stab you in your sleep." I've heard that a few times. Ecept what really happens is I just over-react, sometimes to something small, and create and awkward situation, in reality it looks like I am overreaction to something small but I actually reacting to a history of bad treatment that has never been reacted to up until now.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 01-17-2020 at 04:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Or this: A few months ago, one of my ESE managers (not the aforementioned one) was sharing about an INTx friend and date she had. He was really socially awkward and a medical student and she was outlining stories about him to us and half complaining about him. My office is pretty casual and I was tired so I wasn’t really very focused. At that point I said something like, “maybe he can discover a cure for his autism”. Then all of my coworkers went silent for a second before my manager luckily replied with something naturally and calmly.

    So I accidentally joked with my BOSS that her date had autism. I’m unconsciously oriented to saying stuff to “entertain” in an Se, Fe HA way, but it’s overly unprofessional, stupid and insensitive sometimes.
    Eeeeeexactly. Except my roomate would say this shit about me, to me, every week, and excepted to be "best man" if I ever got married, wtf. And not about some fake autism, but about real things I told him in confidence, so fck me for being a genius to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Here’s a better example of Fi polr that shaped my self-image a lot and I’ll never forget it:

    When I was around 11 years old, I had an ESI friend who used to be my best friend (but actually she betrayed me before this event, but I got over it and we still hung out), whose dad passed away when she was very young. We were playing “would you rather?” at a friend’s house, and I unconsciously asked her the question—

    “Would you rather have sex with your dad, or (have it with some kind of animal or other unappealing thing)?”

    And obviously she burst into tears, and then I REALIZED and felt really bad. This event mortified me for life.

    So sometimes I just run my mouth and don’t think about small but often important sensitive details like this. It’s not that I don’t care, it’s that I forget or it doesn’t enter into my consciousness, so I can unintentionally come across as rough and insensitive when I’m not being careful.
    No see, there's a difference between forgetting, and doing that on purpose. if you KNEW her dad died, and REMEMBERED it and said that to f with her, then yea screw you, but just forgetting is an honest mistake. There are ppl that KNOW and REMEMBER and say things on purpose to cut you deep like that and still call themselves you're friend.




    Anyway, I'm gonna stop bitching and moaning about all this because I could be here all day and even I'm getting tired of my same old complaints.

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