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Thread: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoViD Spurdo 007 View Post
    Well, simple logic says without Fi that if object A takes privileges over other objects that is destructive and it should enable other objects taking similar privileges implies simply that it will not be long standing position. But if you as Fi base were born into a culture that has a norm of bunching others you would see it as your responsibility to whack others senseless whereas Ti would question it and it would be up to that individual to decide wheter to follow Fi norm or not.
    So you can't just say being destructive to an innocent person is wrong?

    @CoViD Spurdo 007
    EDIT:And I was born in a pretty rough neighborhood where if you didn't punch a guy or act like you would punch a guy before he punched you then you'd get taken advantage of. I punched people and never thought it was right. I knew it was wrong and did it anyway. How did I know it was wrong? Because I didn't like getting punched, it did not feel good and when other people got punched it did not feel good to them either, if there was someone I cared about I wouldn't want them to be punched, then maybe other people have people they care about that they don't want to be punched. Then the bells rang in my head saying "maybe punching people is not good." regardless of culture/environment or whatever. You might look at the word destruction and dissect it and and come to the conclusion it's not helpful or produce positive outcomes and decide that it should not be done to an innocent person, while I'll look at destruction and see that it doesn't feel good to anyone and just hurts people and should not be done to an innocent person.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-03-2020 at 01:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnatchYourWeave View Post
    Technically, NOBODY ...
    Everybody is wrong, even your own quadra except Ti and SLE's. Because SLE's are saints and do no wrong? Gotta be kidding. This is Fi PoLR in action, fear of moral judgement, and it's funny because you're all up for dishing it out on everybody else while justifying Fi PoLR actions. Where are those rules that apply to everybody?

    But it makes sense that you can't see the problems of your own PoLR. And you hate duality because SLE hates dependence, not because duality doesn't work because you say so.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-02-2020 at 11:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    So you can't just say being destructive to an innocent person is wrong?
    Quite easily. He is both or something in between.
    Depends on which axiomatic system I use aka perspective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    So you can't just say being destructive to an innocent person is wrong?
    I can... 1) I get angry seeing such things 2) it's easy to explicitly reason about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Panda View Post
    In my experience with ILE, they're really nice people. Fi Polr seems to show up in that they don't really know who their friends are, don't know how to judge interpersonal distance.

    One of my favorite ILE men does this where he closely observes how people treat him, and returns the exact same level of respect. He holds some controversial political opinions and is very vocal about it. Then he can't figure out for the life of him, why some people get annoyed with him. He sees himself as a nice guy who says honest things. He tries to be helpful, gentle and warm. In conversation he can even appear very warm and can get riled up emotionally. He does occasionally seem to enjoy drama and the emotional highs. He's a real solid fellow but then he goes on with his smart mouth and can't figure out why he gets negative reactions from certain people.

    Ti types in general approach interpersonal relationships like a rule book of sorts. So when you have that lack of Fi, the thought must be like "I'm following all the rules, so what's the problem here?" I'm just speculating. I personally take issue with people who don't understand that I'm following rules. I don't prefer to act on a hunch or whatever it is that serious ethical types do.
    Reading this thread now .... The advice I would give to your ILE friend is, not to worry about the negative reactions of "certain people". Some people WILL always dislike something. It is not important, it does not matter.

    Your speculating does fit for me, i.e. "I'm following all the rules, so what's the problem here?"

    And I liked how you put it, about it being hard to know who is a REAL friend, who ACTUALLY cares, who doesn't just lie about being close as long as it suits their interests. : P

    Which is why I don't really take people seriously when they say all sorts of nice words.

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    Yes, the "I am following all of the rules so what is the problem here" fits with me experience as Fi POLR as well. Fi just is so much more particular with relationships and has its own idiosyncratic views on how people should behave and act. At its best it allows for the Fi type to form truly deep, individualized bonds with people; at its worst it makes the Fi type impossible to please, and have the tendency to want to "punish" you for not following their arbitrary whims.

    This "but I follow all of the rules" also manifests in I/SEEs, who "follow all of the rules" (in this case the rules are explicit Te rules). It maybe more commonly manifests as "everything I have said is a fact." Ti-ego has such a more nuance, intricate view of how pieces of evidence fit together, and they realize that "facts" may exist, sure, but as soon as you stretch even a little from the fact it is not longer a fact, it is an inference, and therefore personal thought processes are inherent to that situation. Ti-POLR does not understand this (e.g., "Everything I have said is true I can show you the references so why are you tearing apart what I am saying?"). Fi-POLR is the same way, I think, in the fact that social rules are important; however, people are unique - some are more sensitive than others, e.g., - and so when you interact with those people the point blank explicit rules may not perfect fit the situation. In the same way that Ti types typically have general principles that they nuance depending on the context (and can fully justify the basis for these nuances), I think that Fi types typically have general principles that they nuance depending on the social context (and they can fully explain what it is about the person they are interacting with that results in them making subtle adaptations to the rules). I think that the flexibility I am talking about here (both Ti and Fi) is more inherently to the EP types.


    I should also add that your POLR/weaker functions that also be your strengths if you can overcome the neuroticism related to them. The healthiest Ti types can often generate an immense amount of respect for NOT allowing personal bias to interfere with how they treat people. I think that healthy Ti types are the most aware of the bullshit somewhat inherent to Fi-realm, in which there is a lot of contradiction, inconsistency, etc. In contrast, the Fi type can garner respect for not allowing their personal opinions to interfere with what needs to be done. The most truly health Fi types do not allow themselves or delve too far into model-based thinking, and instead focus on "what are the actual 'facts' of the situations." I think that healthy Fi types are the most aware of the bullshit somewhat inherently to the Ti-realm, in which people posit ivory-tower models and theories that do not necessarily fit the data.
    Last edited by mightylizard; 10-03-2020 at 08:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mightylizard View Post
    Yes, the "I am following all of the rules so what is the problem here" fits with me experience as Fi POLR as well. Fi just is so much more particular with relationships and has its own idiosyncratic views on how people should behave and act. At its best it allows for the Fi type to form truly deep, individualized bonds with people; at its worst it makes the Fi type impossible to please, and have the tendency to want to "punish" you for not following their arbitrary whims.

    This "but I follow all of the rules" also manifests in I/SEEs, who "follow all of the rules" (in this case the rules are explicit Te rules). It maybe more commonly manifests as "everything I have said is a fact." Ti-ego has such a more nuance, intricate view of how pieces of evidence fit together, and they realize that "facts" may exist, sure, but as soon as you stretch even a little from the fact it is not longer a fact, it is an inference, and therefore personal thought processes are inherent to that situation. Ti-POLR does not understand this (e.g., "Everything I have said is true I can show you the references so why are you tearing apart what I am saying?"). Fi-POLR is the same way, I think, in the fact that social rules are important; however, people are unique - some are more sensitive than others, e.g., - and so when you interact with those people the point blank explicit rules may not perfect fit the situation. In the same way that Ti types typically have general principles that they nuance depending on the context (and can fully justify the basis for these nuances), I think that Fi types typically have general principles that they nuance depending on the social context (and they can fully explain what it is about the person they are interacting with that results in them making subtle adaptations to the rules). I think that the flexibility I am talking about here (both Ti and Fi) is more inherently to the EP types.
    Oh yeah I really am fully on board with everything you've said here. I mean for a while I tried to adapt those general rules in specific relationships to match each specific person with them, so I know I'm capable of doing that if I try hard enough but I decided I'm unwilling to do that anymore, because it's a lot of pain in the ass really.

    So really I don't care about who's uniquely sensitive about what, .... they can express emotionally in the moment and then I'll pick up on what they need, but I'm not going to try and guess at what they might be feeling if they do not show a visible emotional expression of it. And I find it ridiculous if someone expects that of me.


    I should also add that your POLR/weaker functions that also be your strengths if you can overcome the neuroticism related to them. The healthiest Ti types can often generate an immense amount of respect for NOT allowing personal bias to interfere with how they treat people. I think that healthy Ti types are the most aware of the bullshit somewhat inherent to Fi-realm, in which there is a lot of contradiction, inconsistency, etc. In contrast, the Fi type can garner respect for not allowing their personal opinions to interfere with what needs to be done. The most truly health Fi types do not allow themselves or delve too far into model-based thinking, and instead focus on "what are the actual 'facts' of the situations." I think that healthy Fi types are the most aware of the bullshit somewhat inherently to the Ti-realm, in which people posit ivory-tower models and theories that do not necessarily fit the data.
    Yeah, I dunno about the ivory-tower models though, for alpha NTs maybe yeah? I prefer the stuff to be real. I mean Socionics is an ivory-tower model too so I prefer Astronics really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    Oh yeah I really am fully on board with everything you've said here. I mean for a while I tried to adapt those general rules in specific relationships to match each specific person with them, so I know I'm capable of doing that if I try hard enough but I decided I'm unwilling to do that anymore, because it's a lot of pain in the ass really.

    So really I don't care about who's uniquely sensitive about what, .... they can express emotionally in the moment and then I'll pick up on what they need, but I'm not going to try and guess at what they might be feeling if they do not show a visible emotional expression of it. And I find it ridiculous if someone expects that of me.




    Yeah, I dunno about the ivory-tower models though, for alpha NTs maybe yeah? I prefer the stuff to be real. I mean Socionics is an ivory-tower model too so I prefer Astronics really.
    Okay, fair, maybe for Beta STs it is not so much the ivory tower-ness, but stretching generalizations too far that is the Ti weakness, with Ti POLR refusing (almost to the point of extremity) to engage in "labeling" people. Ne sort of counterbalances this in Alpha NT; whereas, as you mentioned, I feel as though Se sort of counterbalances the ivory towerness of Ti in Beta STs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post

    So really I don't care about who's uniquely sensitive about what, .... they can express emotionally in the moment and then I'll pick up on what they need, but I'm not going to try and guess at what they might be feeling if they do not show a visible emotional expression of it. And I find it ridiculous if someone expects that of me.

    I'm not sure anybody expects that from people. IME I usually just expect people to not treat people in ways they wouldn't want to be treated, don't throw rocks if they live in a glass house sort of thing. So it's not a matter of reading someone else's mind, it's taking what you consider to be good treatment and not crossing that line with other people. I've seen people do something to someone and then when it's done back to them they complain. That is the most infuriating part, how can you complain when you're willing to do that to someone else. This appears to me as a lack of ethics, whether it's a lack or blindness or something else, I'll never know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I'm not sure anybody expects that from people. IME I usually just expect people to not treat people in ways they wouldn't want to be treated, don't throw rocks if they live in a glass house sort of thing. So it's not a matter of reading someone else's mind, it's taking what you consider to be good treatment and not crossing that line with other people. I've seen people do something to someone and then when it's done back to them they complain. That is the most infuriating part, how can you complain when you're willing to do that to someone else. This appears to me as a lack of ethics, whether it's a lack or blindness or something else, I'll never know.
    That's the issue with Fi-POLR - we do not consider how we would like to be treated. In fact, I genuinely do not give a shit about how people treat me. If you treat me well, I will seek further communication with you. If you treat me poorly, I will not. But I do not "care" per say - how people treat me are just observations that I make, nothing more. I genuinely expect nothing of people in terms of how they should treat me. They treat me how they treat me, and I will take that information as it comes, but I do not expect anything. That is why Fi-POLR gets confused when people are upset at them despite the fact that they "haven't done anything." Fi-POLR wrongly assumes that other people do not have a standard to which they want to be treated.

    Fi-POLR has a very tough skin in many ways. It will brush off most comments. "That is your opinion, so be it." I think maybe it confuses Fi that Fi-POLR takes how people treat them "as it is." i.e., "Why do you still hang out with that person, they are a terrible person." Fi-POLR does not mind. If they follow social conventions and if they accept the Fi-POLR for all of their social faults the Fi-POLR will appreciate them. They will not refuse to hang out with somebody because "they are not a good person." In this way, ironically, Fi-POLR can be the friend people turn to the most when "the group" is against them - they know that no matter what they have done, the Fi-POLR will still treat them justly.

    There is a strength to this, which is the fact that Fi-POLR does not obsessively evaluate its relationships. If you are nice and accepting to an ILE or SLE they will appreciate you, and they will be there for you no matter what. Fi-POLR is loyal to a fault. Even if you do something completely terrible, they will stand by you simply for accepting them. I think that this is why they dual with Te-POLR, who are typically inept when it comes to any sort of applicable skill; however, they genuinely accept people as they come which no caveats, which the Fi-POLR appreciates to a much great depth than they lead to believe.

    Ti-POLR is probably the same to systems of thought. It will accept a workplace's system of thought without question, and will work to implement it no matter what. To a Ti-ego this looks ridiculous - have you not questioned what you are doing? To Ti, all they expect is that, "people don't do something that they think is stupid"; "to think before they agree." This sounds simple, but to an IEE or SEE the actual application of this is completely foreign and they do not understand what it really means. We are all silly in our own way.
    Last edited by mightylizard; 10-04-2020 at 01:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mightylizard View Post
    That's the issue with Fi-POLR - we do not consider how we would like to be treated. In fact, I genuinely do not give a shit about how people treat me. If you treat me well, I will seek further communication with you. If you treat me poorly, I will not. But I do not "care" per say - how people treat me are just observations that I make, nothing more. I genuinely expect nothing of people in terms of how they should treat me. They treat me how they treat me, and I will take that information as it comes, but I do not compare it against a standard. That is why Fi-POLR gets confused when people are upset at them despite the fact that they "haven't done anything." Fi-POLR wrongly assumes that other people do not have a standard to which they want to be treated.
    I believe this to an extent, only because I've seen people I knew were Fi PoLR assertively tell someone not to do something to them like they had a major problem with it. But maybe it's only apparent when the thing comes up(?).

    Like if someone was posturing like they were gonna punch you in the face, would you not tell them "Don't punch me.", if you couldn't easily move out the way? That doesn't come from some rule that says "I don't want to be punched by someone." that you personall hold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I believe this to an extent, only because I've seen people I knew were Fi PoLR assertively tell someone not to do something to them like they had a major problem with it. But maybe it's only apparent when the thing comes up(?).

    Like if someone was posturing like they were gonna punch you in the face, would you not tell them "Don't punch me.", if you couldn't easily move out the way? That doesn't come from some rule that says "I don't want to be punched by someone." that you personall hold.
    Fi-POLR have personal feelings, but they repress them, because they do not understand them. I guess I have just done it in my post: just as Ti-POLR have their own opinions of things Fi-POLR have the way that they feel about things, but they pretend that they don't. Fi-POLR does not like the fact that it has those "feelings" as it directly conflicts with their creative, Ti, which says, "your feelings are arbitrary and transient; however, the truth is absolute."

    Every person has every "function" per say; however, you do not understand your POLR and you repress and reject it.

    In the same vein, healthy Fi-POLR will genuinely "fully" reject Fi in a sense. This, in a sense, is symbolically psychological self-mutilation in order to embodied your "philosophy" to its ultimate truth. Fi-POLR genuinely believes that Fi should be suppressed, and so healthy Fi-POLR does this to themselves, despite the pain, because they want to embody their philosophy and prove that it can work. I genuinely believe this is the self-actualization of each type: to fully reject the POLR and to fully embrace your ego functions, in spite of the aspects of society that use your weak functions saying otherwise.

    Undeveloped people of any type will use their POLR function in an uncontrolled way (e.g., a self-righteous ILE/SLE who condemns everyone as immoral or a IEE/SEE who calls everybody they meet stupid and naive) and then will simultaneously claim that the function (Fi/Ti) itself is useless and serves zero purpose and that they are "above it". True self-actualization is genuine self-awareness: me, and ILE, has Fi - I have personal preferences, and I do like hanging out with some people more than others - however, in order to self-actualize I will reject this aspect of myself, and fully embrace what I perceive to be the truth, and I will take with it all of the inevitable criticism (e.g., I am an asshole) in order to fully contribute in the way that I am meant to. To fully embrace your strength (your ego functions), you must face the wrath of the aspects of society that conflict with them (for me, Fi in particular). This is true bravery, as you accept your truth, fully, in spite of the rejection, pain, and criticism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I'm not sure anybody expects that from people. IME I usually just expect people to not treat people in ways they wouldn't want to be treated, don't throw rocks if they live in a glass house sort of thing. So it's not a matter of reading someone else's mind, it's taking what you consider to be good treatment and not crossing that line with other people. I've seen people do something to someone and then when it's done back to them they complain. That is the most infuriating part, how can you complain when you're willing to do that to someone else. This appears to me as a lack of ethics, whether it's a lack or blindness or something else, I'll never know.
    I've seen people who do actually expect that lol. Some people have even openly told me so lool. Then I'm like... how can you be so ridiculous.

    Anyway, as for your wonderings here, the issue you discuss here, it's plainly a lack of awareness about themselves. IMO. I think everyone has their own blindspots, you may have infuriated someone else in the exact same way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I believe this to an extent, only because I've seen people I knew were Fi PoLR assertively tell someone not to do something to them like they had a major problem with it. But maybe it's only apparent when the thing comes up(?).

    Like if someone was posturing like they were gonna punch you in the face, would you not tell them "Don't punch me.", if you couldn't easily move out the way? That doesn't come from some rule that says "I don't want to be punched by someone." that you personall hold.
    The bolded is a great insight there. That's exactly how it always was with me... I can get very assertive and angry just fine, but then I move on and forget. And not realise that it's a major red flag enough. I think though that if I did manage to feel the thing on a deep enough instinctual level, it becomes a true red flag and then I cannot forget so easily. But even then I often do have to make a strict rule on my behaviour to ensure I don't forget about the red flag after a while. My emotional reactions are really in the moment and it's hard for them to go so deep that I still react the same way years later or whatever. It has happened before but yeah it's unusual. And that also means that when it does happen it's a true disaster and trauma and whatnot. But even then I may not recognise the disaster&trauma (see more below).

    I'm not sure about how the more detached people i.e. the ILEs handle that part.

    Btw none of this means that I just have shallow emotions, I actually have a quite deep part, it's more like it's hard for people to reach it. That is why it's so hard for me to handle it when it actually *is* reached and it does happen very rarely of course. And it's so hard to reach even for myself, I read somewhere that Fi PoLRs typically react to their own trauma only years later, when reacting emotionally to something that somehow brings up the trauma too in the moment. That's really fitting too in a way. I have definitely learnt a lot about how to look at my internals and how to properly internalise and digest stuff better but...

    I also think that when I'm not feeling the same bad reaction in the moment later then often I am just detached from it but it's still there somewhere. That's where learning to look at my insides helped some.

    Also where I said I have to make the strict behavioural rules. It's like... the 3D Ti&1D Ni or whatever can fail to take into account certain distinctions and then it sometimes turns out that the rule didn't ensure that certain situations will be handled according to the spirit of the rule. I.e. if I decided there was a code red which means I gotta avoid closer distances with that person, I may still engage with the person on certain terms, that's fine, but it happens that I don't think it through enough - tbh by default I barely spend time thinking about things just sitting alone on my own lol - so then it's possible that I don't include some necessary conditions to ensure that the correct distance is always kept. That can bite my ass sometimes ofc.

    It's all really fucking complicated

    And as for the punch thing, I wouldn't tell them "don't punch me", lol, if they are gonna want to do it, they aren't gonna stop just because you ask, lol. I'm not really sure what your point was there BTW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
    I've seen people who do actually expect that lol. Some people have even openly told me so lool. Then I'm like... how can you be so ridiculous.

    Anyway, as for your wonderings here, the issue you discuss here, it's plainly a lack of awareness about themselves. IMO. I think everyone has their own blindspots, you may have infuriated someone else in the exact same way.




    The bolded is a great insight there. That's exactly how it always was with me... I can get very assertive and angry just fine, but then I move on and forget. And not realise that it's a major red flag enough. I think though that if I did manage to feel the thing on a deep enough instinctual level, it becomes a true red flag and then I cannot forget so easily. But even then I often do have to make a strict rule on my behaviour to ensure I don't forget about the red flag after a while. My emotional reactions are really in the moment and it's hard for them to go so deep that I still react the same way years later or whatever. It has happened before but yeah it's unusual. And that also means that when it does happen it's a true disaster and trauma and whatnot. But even then I may not recognise the disaster&trauma (see more below).

    I'm not sure about how the more detached people i.e. the ILEs handle that part.

    Btw none of this means that I just have shallow emotions, I actually have a quite deep part, it's more like it's hard for people to reach it. That is why it's so hard for me to handle it when it actually *is* reached and it does happen very rarely of course. And it's so hard to reach even for myself, I read somewhere that Fi PoLRs typically react to their own trauma only years later, when reacting emotionally to something that somehow brings up the trauma too in the moment. That's really fitting too in a way. I have definitely learnt a lot about how to look at my internals and how to properly internalise and digest stuff better but...

    I also think that when I'm not feeling the same bad reaction in the moment later then often I am just detached from it but it's still there somewhere. That's where learning to look at my insides helped some.

    Also where I said I have to make the strict behavioural rules. It's like... the 3D Ti&1D Ni or whatever can fail to take into account certain distinctions and then it sometimes turns out that the rule didn't ensure that certain situations will be handled according to the spirit of the rule. I.e. if I decided there was a code red which means I gotta avoid closer distances with that person, I may still engage with the person on certain terms, that's fine, but it happens that I don't think it through enough - tbh by default I barely spend time thinking about things just sitting alone on my own lol - so then it's possible that I don't include some necessary conditions to ensure that the correct distance is always kept. That can bite my ass sometimes ofc.

    It's all really fucking complicated

    And as for the punch thing, I wouldn't tell them "don't punch me", lol, if they are gonna want to do it, they aren't gonna stop just because you ask, lol. I'm not really sure what your point was there BTW.
    This makes sense and shed some light for sure.

    My point with the punching was, he said he doesn't care how people treat him, but I'm sure he wouldn't want someone to punch him in the face, so he does care how he's treated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mightylizard View Post
    That's the issue with Fi-POLR - we do not consider how we would like to be treated. In fact, I genuinely do not give a shit about how people treat me. If you treat me well, I will seek further communication with you. If you treat me poorly, I will not. But I do not "care" per say - how people treat me are just observations that I make, nothing more. I genuinely expect nothing of people in terms of how they should treat me. They treat me how they treat me, and I will take that information as it comes, but I do not expect anything. That is why Fi-POLR gets confused when people are upset at them despite the fact that they "haven't done anything." Fi-POLR wrongly assumes that other people do not have a standard to which they want to be treated.
    OK wow so this is where we differ, because I do care how I'm treated. Or I don't know what you mean by "care" but I do feel instinctual anger when I'm treated bad. The problem is just that the anger is in the moment and after I got it out of the system, and dealt a "punch" (usually not physical) to the person about it, I move on and forget and not realise if it was a red flag, and the subtler the red flag in a moral sense, the less likely I will recognise it. If it's objective enough then I have no problem recognising it. Like as long as it's physical/material I have no problem with it. It's those subtler ethical ones where I've had more problems but ofc over time even the Fi PoLR learns lol.

    And I do have a standard to which I want to be treated, a well defined explicit standard, it's not that hard to do with Ti logic.


    Fi-POLR has a very tough skin in many ways. It will brush off most comments. "That is your opinion, so be it." I think maybe it confuses Fi that Fi-POLR takes how people treat them "as it is." i.e., "Why do you still hang out with that person, they are a terrible person." Fi-POLR does not mind. If they follow social conventions and if they accept the Fi-POLR for all of their social faults the Fi-POLR will appreciate them. They will not refuse to hang out with somebody because "they are not a good person." In this way, ironically, Fi-POLR can be the friend people turn to the most when "the group" is against them - they know that no matter what they have done, the Fi-POLR will still treat them justly.
    Yeah this is where I went truly wow because I'm like this a lot. Tho I'm probably more selective than you, because if I do think someone's a really bad person (not often) then I'm definitely not going near them, but again this is rare. Also I do care about being respected so I don't really accept people just throwing whatever at me. The rest you wrote here really really works though lol.


    There is a strength to this, which is the fact that Fi-POLR does not obsessively evaluate its relationships. If you are nice and accepting to an ILE or SLE they will appreciate you, and they will be there for you no matter what. Fi-POLR is loyal to a fault. Even if you do something completely terrible, they will stand by you simply for accepting them. I think that this is why they dual with Te-POLR, who are typically inept when it comes to any sort of applicable skill; however, they genuinely accept people as they come which no caveats, which the Fi-POLR appreciates to a much great depth than they lead to believe.
    Actually when I had the need for it, I obsessively evaluated for years, but this happened about very very very few people. I did see how my low ability to digest the feelings/ethics about them made it nearly impossibly hard though yeah. Otherwise yeah I relate to what you wrote here. Tho' I wouldn't say that I will be loyal to you in an undying way just because you are nice and appreciate/accept me. I need a bit more than that, lol. I do want some more special attention than just generic niceness and generic acceptance.


    Ti-POLR is probably the same to systems of thought. It will accept a workplace's system of thought without question, and will work to implement it no matter what. To a Ti-ego this looks ridiculous - have you not questioned what you are doing? To Ti, all they expect is that, "people don't do something that they think is stupid"; "to think before they agree." This sounds simple, but to an IEE or SEE the actual application of this is completely foreign and they do not understand what it really means. We are all silly in our own way.
    The questioning thingy sounds more NT to me than Ti. Your extremely high focus on competence also feels that way to me. I personally am fine with people doing stupid things lol, the world just works like that



    Fi-POLR have personal feelings, but they repress them, because they do not understand them. I guess I have just done it in my post: just as Ti-POLR have their own opinions of things Fi-POLR have the way that they feel about things, but they pretend that they don't. Fi-POLR does not like the fact that it has those "feelings" as it directly conflicts with their creative, Ti, which says, "your feelings are arbitrary and transient; however, the truth is absolute."
    Yeah... that is why it's so fucken hard to process it all when the repressing otherwise has too many bad consequences.

    Anyway I dunno about the truth being absolute, I don't see it that way. Feelings are also not really arbitrary. The emotional experience is easily transient maybe yeah but I don't think that the emotions/feelings are arbitrary, nah. I mean a few years back I thought they were arbitrary, but no they are not.

    I don't mind having emotions btw, they don't usually feel like they conflict with my thinking. And if they do then I'll just figure that out somehow. Because they are not arbitrary per se and there is something to figure out there.


    In the same vein, healthy Fi-POLR will genuinely "fully" reject Fi in a sense. This, in a sense, is symbolically psychological self-mutilation in order to embodied your "philosophy" to its ultimate truth. Fi-POLR genuinely believes that Fi should be suppressed, and so healthy Fi-POLR does this to themselves, despite the pain, because they want to embody their philosophy and prove that it can work. I genuinely believe this is the self-actualization of each type: to fully reject the POLR and to fully embrace your ego functions, in spite of the aspects of society that use your weak functions saying otherwise.
    I don't really follow this part, sorry. Too alpha NT lol.


    Undeveloped people of any type will use their POLR function in an uncontrolled way (e.g., a self-righteous ILE/SLE who condemns everyone as immoral or a IEE/SEE who calls everybody they meet stupid and naive) and then will simultaneously claim that the function (Fi/Ti) itself is useless and serves zero purpose and that they are "above it". True self-actualization is genuine self-awareness: me, and ILE, has Fi - I have personal preferences, and I do like hanging out with some people more than others - however, in order to self-actualize I will reject this aspect of myself, and fully embrace what I perceive to be the truth, and I will take with it all of the inevitable criticism (e.g., I am an asshole) in order to fully contribute in the way that I am meant to. To fully embrace your strength (your ego functions), you must face the wrath of the aspects of society that conflict with them (for me, Fi in particular). This is true bravery, as you accept your truth, fully, in spite of the rejection, pain, and criticism.
    I mean, to fully self-actualise, don't use Socionics for that lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    This makes sense and shed some light for sure.

    My point with the punching was, he said he doesn't care how people treat him, but I'm sure he wouldn't want someone to punch him in the face, so he does care how he's treated.
    Cool glad it made sense

    And yeah that claim was too general I think

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psych View Post
    I haven't read the entire conversation but I think most people are reasonable where if they get hurt, they tell you. If after that you do it anyway, I think they have the right to be upset and distance themselves. But yeah, I think most people won't punish anyone for accidentally pushing their vulnerable buttons a couple of times.
    No.... some people LITERALLY expect you to mind read. Excuse me but you sound a tiny bit naive there assuming that people are usually that terribly self-aware

    Here's a few examples for ya;

    - "I'm offended, you did a very offensive thing, yes you did a more offensive thing than the other person, no, I'm not telling you why or how it was more offensive, I have to be told that you are sorry first [for something you didn't actually do*], because I do not trust you until you told me so."

    (I actually asked her about all this further in a convo and that's her whole response condensed as above. *: My own comment inserted there)

    - "You did a really crap shit thing there, but I don't have patience to figure out what it is to tell you what it is, you need to figure it out yourself"

    (Reworded this one, can't remember the exact wording anymore)

    - "You are not perceiving my feelings and states here" (Person never directly expressed their feelings emotionally)

    - (silence/distance) (Without telling me what their problem is, yup)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mightylizard View Post
    Undeveloped people of any type will use their POLR function in an uncontrolled way (e.g., a self-righteous ILE/SLE who condemns everyone as immoral or a IEE/SEE who calls everybody they meet stupid and naive) and then will simultaneously claim that the function (Fi/Ti) itself is useless and serves zero purpose and that they are "above it". True self-actualization is genuine self-awareness: me, and ILE, has Fi - I have personal preferences, and I do like hanging out with some people more than others - however, in order to self-actualize I will reject this aspect of myself, and fully embrace what I perceive to be the truth, and I will take with it all of the inevitable criticism (e.g., I am an asshole) in order to fully contribute in the way that I am meant to. To fully embrace your strength (your ego functions), you must face the wrath of the aspects of society that conflict with them (for me, Fi in particular). This is true bravery, as you accept your truth, fully, in spite of the rejection, pain, and criticism.
    Wouldn’t true healthiness and maturity be a third option of accepting that one’s PoLR is actually useful in many cases as it’s valued by many people in society? I understand the utility of braving through society’s values in favor of one’s own truth and values, but to take it to an extreme without trying to develop some awareness of how it works and why others might value it seems like rejecting inconvenient/uncomfortable realities to me.

    Rejecting aspects of one’s self definitely doesn’t sound healthy or transcendental in any case. Development is about wholesomeness and integration. PoLR is painful and it’s supposed to be that way. You don’t just chug Tylenol day after day to get rid of periodic aches. Having to continually deal with difficulty and solve problems that come up, and accepting that’s going to be the case, is a part of life and growing.

    I just don’t think trapping oneself in a wormhole of solipsistic truth is the path to self-actualization.

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    Well, I know lot of people who cry over treatment. It is really consuming to listen to it. It is also very consuming when you are hold in high position by not due to the fact you can actually do something about the problem.

    Yeah. If you face pain and it effects your function it will be destructive but wanting narcissistic fullfilment provided by others is just gross. If people want to lick my ahole it probably fires back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Wouldn’t true healthiness and maturity be a third option of accepting that one’s PoLR is actually useful in many cases as it’s valued by many people in society? I understand the utility of braving through society’s values in favor of one’s own truth and values, but to take it to an extreme without trying to develop some awareness of how it works and why others might value it seems like rejecting inconvenient/uncomfortable realities to me.

    Rejecting aspects of one’s self definitely doesn’t sound healthy or transcendental in any case. Development is about wholesomeness and integration. PoLR is painful and it’s supposed to be that way. You don’t just chug Tylenol day after day to get rid of periodic aches. Having to continually deal with difficulty and solve problems that come up, and accepting that’s going to be the case, is a part of life and growing.

    I just don’t think trapping oneself in a wormhole of solipsistic truth is the path to self-actualization.
    You're misunderstanding my point. I do not reject Fi as a function - I respect it and in a sense I am jealous of people who excel at it. That said, that is not my strength, and I will probably ultimately contribute to the world in a much deeper way if I fully accept that I am very strong at Ti, and rather weak at Fi. Anyone who fully embraces themselves is met with thrown rocks by society (most likely people from conflicting Quadras). "Pushing through" the thrown rocks and not wavering in embracing your strengths and who you are as a person is not synonymous with rejecting all aspects of what you are not strong at. Anyone who is "healthy" and "self-actualized" will embrace others strengths as well as embrace their own weaknesses.

    Also, IMO, accepting who I am in my wholeness is less like "chugging Tylenol" than neurotically attempting to improve my Fi and failing time and time again but not admitting to myself that maybe I am eschewing my own strengths to try and become something that I am not - which I did try in my late teens/early twenties and only resulted in me drinking a lot and depression (I am not talking about Fi here as a function - I was naive to Socionics - but I neurotically obsessed about my relations with other person, how I seemed to be "missing something" in social situations, and how I could never seem to get a completely solid footing in that sphere. It became my obsession, and where I derived all sense of value. It was, in a sense, a mistake, as I was ignoring the fact that I was doing amazing in school, in spite of putting very little effort in, and I understood material very quickly. Later, around 22-23, I became TOO focused on "Ti" and thought of "Fi" as weak, or inferior. I would like to think that at this point in my life I am much more balanced - I embrace my strengths and weaknesses, and I accept the strengths of others and do not punish them for their weaknesses.

    People who are not healthy will punish people for being comfortable with themselves. Anyone who is comfortable with themself almost inevitably will face unhealthy people who attempt to bring them down. That is my point about society throwing rocks, per say - the more you embrace your strengths, and the more that you utilize them, the more UNHEALTHY people will target you. That just seems inevitable to me. Maybe people perceive me as cocky, and maybe I am, but I am very aware of my own faults and I do not reject them - I sit comfortably with them. And just because I sit comfortably with them does not mean I do not try to improve them.


    I accept that I am weak at Fi; however, I value Fi. Do I try and improve Fi? I am not sure. I am constantly trying to improve how I interact with people, and I am constantly evaluating my actions and trying to become a better person. I do not believe being strong at Ti makes me superior to a Fi user, but it simply means that I have different strengths, and I push my view forward when I think that Ti is appropriate. When Fi is appropriate I let Fi take charges, unless I really have something to say. Sometimes my Ti clashes with someone's Fi, and I am maligned names, which genuinely hurt me, but if I have genuinely thought something true, and I genuinely believe something, I try and stick to my guns. I do not think that I do this obnoxiously (at least, I try not to), and sometimes I don't reveal my opinion if it is not useful in real life, but lots of people have called me lots of things, especially in regard to my Fi-POLR. I listen - sometimes they are right, sometimes I do not think that what they are saying is fair, and is just them attempting to run a smear campaign of sorts. It is not self-actualized to neurotically question things over and over when your strengths intimidate someone, no matter what your strength is


    Anyways, this is just me going on and on about nothing
    Last edited by mightylizard; 10-10-2020 at 12:08 PM.

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    It seems like I'm beginning to avoid people more and more. It is like evaluating relation to them is really hard and I get very pessimistic about life. I don't understand that people can be my friends so I should probably cut all my ties to people. Which is probably the best for everyone if they protest against it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homicidal Maniac 007 View Post
    It seems like I'm beginning to avoid people more and more. It is like evaluating relation to them is really hard and I get very pessimistic about life. I don't understand that people can be my friends so I should probably cut all my ties to people. Which is probably the best for everyone if they protest against it.
    I’m not saying this is right to do but I relate lol

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    @mightylizard Random but you give me an SLE vibe rather than ILE. I’ll read and reply later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mightylizard View Post
    Also, IMO, accepting who I am in my wholeness is less like "chugging Tylenol" than neurotically attempting to improve my Fi and failing time and time again but not admitting to myself that maybe I am eschewing my own strengths to try and become something that I am not - which I did try in my late teens/early twenties and only resulted in me drinking a lot and depression (I am not talking about Fi here as a function - I was naive to Socionics - but I neurotically obsessed about my relations with other person, how I seemed to be "missing something" in social situations, and how I could never seem to get a completely solid footing in that sphere. It became my obsession, and where I derived all sense of value. It was, in a sense, a mistake, as I was ignoring the fact that I was doing amazing in school, in spite of putting very little effort in, and I understood material very quickly. Later, around 22-23, I became TOO focused on "Ti" and thought of "Fi" as weak, or inferior. I would like to think that at this point in my life I am much more balanced - I embrace my strengths and weaknesses, and I accept the strengths of others and do not punish them for their weaknesses.
    god lol so relatable


    People who are not healthy will punish people for being comfortable with themselves. Anyone who is comfortable with themself almost inevitably will face unhealthy people who attempt to bring them down. That is my point about society throwing rocks, per say - the more you embrace your strengths, and the more that you utilize them, the more UNHEALTHY people will target you. That just seems inevitable to me. Maybe people perceive me as cocky, and maybe I am, but I am very aware of my own faults and I do not reject them - I sit comfortably with them. And just because I sit comfortably with them does not mean I do not try to improve them.
    Fuck yeah.


    I accept that I am weak at Fi; however, I value Fi. Do I try and improve Fi? I am not sure. I am constantly trying to improve how I interact with people, and I am constantly evaluating my actions and trying to become a better person. I do not believe being strong at Ti makes me superior to a Fi user, but it simply means that I have different strengths, and I push my view forward when I think that Ti is appropriate. When Fi is appropriate I let Fi take charges, unless I really have something to say. Sometimes my Ti clashes with someone's Fi, and I am maligned names, which genuinely hurt me, but if I have genuinely thought something true, and I genuinely believe something, I try and stick to my guns. I do not think that I do this obnoxiously (at least, I try not to), and sometimes I don't reveal my opinion if it is not useful in real life, but lots of people have called me lots of things, especially in regard to my Fi-POLR. I listen - sometimes they are right, sometimes I do not think that what they are saying is fair, and is just them attempting to run a smear campaign of sorts. It is not self-actualized to neurotically question things over and over when your strengths intimidate someone, no matter what your strength is
    Completely agree. Your last sentence, yeah, a very good summary

    In fact and maybe this is obvious to you already, if you embrace your strengths instead of questioning them when someone gets intimidated by the stuff, you will actually have the other person respect you more

    Ofc the really unhealthy people can't take it anyway either way

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homicidal Maniac 007 View Post
    It seems like I'm beginning to avoid people more and more. It is like evaluating relation to them is really hard and I get very pessimistic about life. I don't understand that people can be my friends so I should probably cut all my ties to people. Which is probably the best for everyone if they protest against it.
    I've had that period before. The way to come out of it is really understand your emotions I think and like, really experience them and as many of them as possible and then you can make really good distinctions about them with your logic and then you can see the emotional relations with others more clearly too, like you also see and categorise where their emotions come from and why and how
    Last edited by grumpyvic81; 10-11-2020 at 12:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mightylizard View Post
    You're misunderstanding my point. I do not reject Fi as a function - I respect it and in a sense I am jealous of people who excel at it. That said, that is not my strength, and I will probably ultimately contribute to the world in a much deeper way if I fully accept that I am very strong at Ti, and rather weak at Fi. Anyone who fully embraces themselves is met with thrown rocks by society (most likely people from conflicting Quadras). "Pushing through" the thrown rocks and not wavering in embracing your strengths and who you are as a person is not synonymous with rejecting all aspects of what you are not strong at. Anyone who is "healthy" and "self-actualized" will embrace others strengths as well as embrace their own weaknesses.

    Also, IMO, accepting who I am in my wholeness is less like "chugging Tylenol" than neurotically attempting to improve my Fi and failing time and time again but not admitting to myself that maybe I am eschewing my own strengths to try and become something that I am not - which I did try in my late teens/early twenties and only resulted in me drinking a lot and depression (I am not talking about Fi here as a function - I was naive to Socionics - but I neurotically obsessed about my relations with other person, how I seemed to be "missing something" in social situations, and how I could never seem to get a completely solid footing in that sphere. It became my obsession, and where I derived all sense of value. It was, in a sense, a mistake, as I was ignoring the fact that I was doing amazing in school, in spite of putting very little effort in, and I understood material very quickly. Later, around 22-23, I became TOO focused on "Ti" and thought of "Fi" as weak, or inferior. I would like to think that at this point in my life I am much more balanced - I embrace my strengths and weaknesses, and I accept the strengths of others and do not punish them for their weaknesses.

    People who are not healthy will punish people for being comfortable with themselves. Anyone who is comfortable with themself almost inevitably will face unhealthy people who attempt to bring them down. That is my point about society throwing rocks, per say - the more you embrace your strengths, and the more that you utilize them, the more UNHEALTHY people will target you. That just seems inevitable to me. Maybe people perceive me as cocky, and maybe I am, but I am very aware of my own faults and I do not reject them - I sit comfortably with them. And just because I sit comfortably with them does not mean I do not try to improve them.


    I accept that I am weak at Fi; however, I value Fi. Do I try and improve Fi? I am not sure. I am constantly trying to improve how I interact with people, and I am constantly evaluating my actions and trying to become a better person. I do not believe being strong at Ti makes me superior to a Fi user, but it simply means that I have different strengths, and I push my view forward when I think that Ti is appropriate. When Fi is appropriate I let Fi take charges, unless I really have something to say. Sometimes my Ti clashes with someone's Fi, and I am maligned names, which genuinely hurt me, but if I have genuinely thought something true, and I genuinely believe something, I try and stick to my guns. I do not think that I do this obnoxiously (at least, I try not to), and sometimes I don't reveal my opinion if it is not useful in real life, but lots of people have called me lots of things, especially in regard to my Fi-POLR. I listen - sometimes they are right, sometimes I do not think that what they are saying is fair, and is just them attempting to run a smear campaign of sorts. It is not self-actualized to neurotically question things over and over when your strengths intimidate someone, no matter what your strength is



    Anyways, this is just me going on and on about nothing
    Finally read your post. Sure, I agree with you now—about the underlined, I see it the same way—as long as you’re doing the bolded.

    Just wondering though— what made you change your typing from SLE to ILE recently? I feel like I can relate a lot to your train of thinking and form of expression.

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    Ngl this thread helped me get a better perspective to see that this PoLR is just as much a PoLR as my own, it's hard to see what your lead IE is like as a PoLR for someone else. @mightylizard even though I'm not Fi PoLR I can relate with some of those struggles with the PoLR. Welp, so much for thinking yall were crazy, at least it makes sense now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Ngl this thread helped me get a better perspective to see that this PoLR is just as much a PoLR as my own, it's hard to see what your lead IE is like as a PoLR for someone else. @mightylizard even though I'm not Fi PoLR I can relate with some of those struggles with the PoLR. Welp, so much for thinking yall were crazy, at least it makes sense now.
    Honestly I feel confused and bewildered too by other Fi polrs’ moments sometimes. I’m guessing the main reason PoLR is a thing is because of the clash of values/cognition with the HA.

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    Sometimes it is just to troll uninformed jerk reactions and put them in line.
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    Today my ILE ex went to a psychiatrist and was told by him that he probably has mild autism. Ironically, it was a previous boss of mine and colleague of his, an ILE woman who is like a female version of @Homicidal Maniac 007 , who first suggested he might have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Today my ILE ex went to a psychiatrist and was told by him that he probably has mild autism. Ironically, it was a previous boss of mine and colleague of his, an ILE woman who is like a female version of @Homicidal Maniac 007 , who first suggested he might have it.
    I av thought it for me but I fail in all aspects of of autistic cognition where they are good at instead of that I found schizotypy which was perfect fit for my cognition. Theodore Millon describes its thought process perfectly and I amazed how it was able to pin down my thinking. Too bad it is not trendy these days and psych professionals rely on over blown stereotypical manifestations and they just like to trust superficial points without going deep. After that I went to talk to psychiatrist with my points and he said that my face emotions [he said tat I displayed lots of bizarre emotions] do not really fit in autism neither does my bizarre realizations and metaphors or reluctance to follow routine. I'm also extremely non stressed out by environment and so on. I have also been in group of autistic people and I was huge outsider in vast amount of ways. Psychiatrist said that I was right having schizotypal personality style.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homicidal Maniac 007 View Post
    I av thought it for me but I fail in all aspects of of autistic cognition where they are good at instead of that I found schizotypy which was perfect fit for my cognition. Theodore Millon describes its thought process perfectly and I amazed how it was able to pin down my thinking. Too bad it is not trendy these days and psych professionals rely on over blown stereotypical manifestations and they just like to trust superficial points without going deep. After that I went to talk to psychiatrist with my points and he said that my face emotions [he said tat I displayed lots of bizarre emotions] do not really fit in autism neither does my bizarre realizations and metaphors or reluctance to follow routine. I'm also extremely non stressed out by environment and so on. I have also been in group of autistic people and I was huge outsider in vast amount of ways. Psychiatrist said that I was right having schizotypal personality style.
    My female ex boss is like this too. Guess there are just many different variations of the same type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    My female ex boss is like this too. Guess there are just many different variations of the same type.
    I think ILE's with ADHD features are also quite common. Gulenko's description kind of underlines plausible schizotypal features in ILE while I deviate from wanting the same external order part from the description. I started to really think how delusional I could be after reading it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homicidal Maniac 007 View Post
    I av thought it for me but I fail in all aspects of of autistic cognition where they are good at instead of that I found schizotypy which was perfect fit for my cognition. Theodore Millon describes its thought process perfectly and I amazed how it was able to pin down my thinking. Too bad it is not trendy these days and psych professionals rely on over blown stereotypical manifestations and they just like to trust superficial points without going deep. After that I went to talk to psychiatrist with my points and he said that my face emotions [he said tat I displayed lots of bizarre emotions] do not really fit in autism neither does my bizarre realizations and metaphors or reluctance to follow routine. I'm also extremely non stressed out by environment and so on. I have also been in group of autistic people and I was huge outsider in vast amount of ways. Psychiatrist said that I was right having schizotypal personality style.
    Yes schizotypal or other Cluster A stuff makes a load more sense for you than autism lol. Autism seems like a fashionable diagnosis & gets overdiagnosed nowadays. I COMPLETELY agree about Millon, his in-depth stuff is awesome. I was like shocked how well it described some internal shit for me too lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Ngl this thread helped me get a better perspective to see that this PoLR is just as much a PoLR as my own, it's hard to see what your lead IE is like as a PoLR for someone else. @mightylizard even though I'm not Fi PoLR I can relate with some of those struggles with the PoLR. Welp, so much for thinking yall were crazy, at least it makes sense now.
    That's cool you've done your homework now in understanding other people lol. I still don't get Se PoLR, it's the PoLR I understand least tbh (also Ni PoLR for some reason).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Finally read your post. Sure, I agree with you now—about the underlined, I see it the same way—as long as you’re doing the bolded.

    Just wondering though— what made you change your typing from SLE to ILE recently? I feel like I can relate a lot to your train of thinking and form of expression.
    Yes, I agree, I relate to a lot of what you say as well.

    I MAYYYY be an SLE; however, I chalk a lot of my "Se-ness" to me being Sx? I think that Ne is my true "being" per say, particularly when I look back on my childhood. That said, I really love Se, and I really really love beta Quadra, who I feel I connect with more than Alpha is some ways. I have not ruled out SLE; however, I am very oblivious to sensory aspects of life, and I think that I have only become decent at them by focusing so hard on them as I grew up. I also remember as a child constantly living in a fantasy land and being very physically oblivious to things. That said, my entire family is Alpha, so perhaps I only consider myself Apha because of this?

    I have definitely narrowed my typing down to Ti-creative/Fi-POLR; however, I do fluctuate between SLE and ILE. That said, I relate so much to Ne-Ego descriptions, particularly the Alpha NT brand of Ne, that I feel as though I am just an ILE who focuses fairly heavily on Se.

    I also fluctuate on my instinctual variant, and I reasonably could be So/Sx, which I have originally typed as, but I feel as though So-blind actually makes more sense, as I pay almost zero attention to the "social" realm per say and focus almost entirely on the individuals within that social realm (I thought this was originally was I was so/sx - I am definitely synflow). I also MAY be a 7. I have typed as 6 too, but never felt comfortable with that as I never really related to any description.


    This is all over the place, but it is what it is

    Yes, I could 100% be SLE. Alas! At least I am 100% certain that I am terrible with Fi - good to know, lol

    Why do you think that I am SLE?

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    People don’t work on their PoLR function as it’s weak and unvalued, but it’s also cautious and shrinking. To mitigate the PoLR weakness, one tries to “improve” on mob function (HA).

    Also, with Sx instinctual variant, more closely related to Fi (need for close connections). Enneagrams are different and separate system, so being a certain enneagram doesn’t make you be a certain sociotype. There’s some correlation, but that’s about it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mightylizard View Post
    Yes, I agree, I relate to a lot of what you say as well.

    I MAYYYY be an SLE; however, I chalk a lot of my "Se-ness" to me being Sx? I think that Ne is my true "being" per say, particularly when I look back on my childhood. That said, I really love Se, and I really really love beta Quadra, who I feel I connect with more than Alpha is some ways. I have not ruled out SLE; however, I am very oblivious to sensory aspects of life, and I think that I have only become decent at them by focusing so hard on them as I grew up. I also remember as a child constantly living in a fantasy land and being very physically oblivious to things. That said, my entire family is Alpha, so perhaps I only consider myself Apha because of this?

    I have definitely narrowed my typing down to Ti-creative/Fi-POLR; however, I do fluctuate between SLE and ILE. That said, I relate so much to Ne-Ego descriptions, particularly the Alpha NT brand of Ne, that I feel as though I am just an ILE who focuses fairly heavily on Se.

    I also fluctuate on my instinctual variant, and I reasonably could be So/Sx, which I have originally typed as, but I feel as though So-blind actually makes more sense, as I pay almost zero attention to the "social" realm per say and focus almost entirely on the individuals within that social realm (I thought this was originally was I was so/sx - I am definitely synflow). I also MAY be a 7. I have typed as 6 too, but never felt comfortable with that as I never really related to any description.


    This is all over the place, but it is what it is

    Yes, I could 100% be SLE. Alas! At least I am 100% certain that I am terrible with Fi - good to know, lol

    Why do you think that I am SLE?
    I relate to a lot of that too. I’m not necessarily that physically grounded in some ways and have had to work at sensoric things.

    Your thinking style just reminds me more of that of SLEs I’ve known than ILEs. Your thinking style reminds me of Holographic-Panoramic (which can be a little meandering and can be mistaken for Ne) more than Casual-Deterministic IMO (which can seem IJ-like), more specifically.

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    I think PoLR functions in general are misunderstood.

    One point that I see come up though is about Fi polr (or logical types in general) not having strong, deep or nuanced emotions. Obviously I can’t speak for every single Fi polr or logical type but I think a lot of us do, or it more varies from person to person and is NTR. I feel very very deeply to the point where just thinking about an SO can make me sob uncontrollably (though I do this alone). I tear up from thinking about others’ pain.

    I have the power to turn this and all sensitivities off though when it comes in conflict with my goals. My ILE is like this too, having been exposed to great acute pain and hardship before. It’s like a self-amputation to escape or create autonomy in a sense. And I actually really don’t relate to how others find it difficult to be like this.

    Like for example if people are screaming their heads off around me, of course I’m gonna want to be calm so that I can hear myself think in this situation. I get this feeling in my chest that pushes everything else down and out of the way. I associate this kind of counterphobic reaction and facing things head on with coming out of a situation with some kind of benefit or growth, which is why I am drawn to hardships and challenges of different kinds. Basically I’m just really determined to not feel emotions that get in the way in certain situations.

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    These lyrics:

    You're a stranger, stuck inside my head
    A remainder, of a love that died instead
    You're a stranger, and there's no point to pretend
    That you can heal with me, erase my memory

    I'm in danger, gotta quit while I'm ahead
    Disclaimer, an emotion left unread
    I'm in danger, and there's no point to pretend
    That you can heal with me, erase my memory

    You're a virus, you were crawling in my skin
    Like a hybrid of blessing and a sin
    You're a virus, and I got no medicine
    You were playin me, drove your thoughts into me
    In the fire, is the life I used to live
    On a wire, controlling me within
    In the fire, there was nothing left to give
    You were playin me, drove your thoughts into me

    It'll feel so right
    When I disconnect from you
    All the shit you put me through
    It'll feel so right
    When I disconnect from you
    All the shit you put me through
    Is finally catchin' up to you

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