Page 5 of 19 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 200 of 721

Thread: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood

  1. #161
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    something good about Fi polr... hmmm, let me see. well, I find it funny when SLEs think everyone likes them (I feel bad for ILEs though). Cause it's obvious that some people don't and are just pretending to be polite or whatever. It's maybe refreshing that they don't feel the need to spell things out officially when you're in a relationship cause it gives you the freedom to be yourself and say and do whatever comes to mind without worrying if you're overstepping your bounds. It's impossible to offend them! There's never any judgment, which is refreshing.

    I'm sorry you're sad though. Was he a jerk?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  2. #162
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Ah, you added more. I think that's probably the gist of it. XEIs don't want to talk about their feelings, and use Fe for developing and maintaining relationships. The XLEs need that Fe to feel good about things, and then there's no problem.
    definitely!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  3. #163
    betterthan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    TIM
    IEI!
    Posts
    620
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    what about how they view relationships as transient and impermanent and disposable? argh. they can't work out the value of a relationship until it's too late.
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

  4. #164
    betterthan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    TIM
    IEI!
    Posts
    620
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    something good about Fi polr... hmmm, let me see. well, I find it funny when SLEs think everyone likes them (I feel bad for ILEs though). Cause it's obvious that some people don't and are just pretending to be polite or whatever. It's maybe refreshing that they don't feel the need to spell things out officially when you're in a relationship cause it gives you the freedom to be yourself and say and do whatever comes to mind without worrying if you're overstepping your bounds. It's impossible to offend them! There's never any judgment, which is refreshing.

    I'm sorry you're sad though. Was he a jerk?
    Oh haha yeah, Fi polr is so cute sometimes ^-^ - and when SLEs can't work out why someone is offended by something, the genuine confusion, aha .

    He will regret it =/
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

  5. #165
    Azeroffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    California
    TIM
    ENTj 3w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,200
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It seems that xLE mostly wants the Fe interaction without having to think too much about how the relationship is doing emotionally. xLE sees relationships mostly as a labeled attachment(Ti) without referring to feelings. "We are friends" "We are dating" "We are married." Whether or not someone likes or dislikes them is irrelevant, or at least hard to conceive of and hard to focus on.

    xEI subconsciously reassures xLE that Fi bonds are ok through Fe feedback. While this is happening xLE subconsciously acts exactly how they are supposed to (Te) when they realize they are in a certain kind of relationship (Ti), thereby reassuring xEI's Te PoLR through an understood relationship (Ti).
    3w4-5w6-9w8

  6. #166
    Azeroffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    California
    TIM
    ENTj 3w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,200
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Yeah.. just spread peanut butter in the cracks. lol Why are you talking like Fi is about real feelings and Fe isn't?
    True, they are both "real feelings." I just meant that Fi is how you feel about someone, and Fe is how you are feeling at any given moment.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

  7. #167
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    what about how they view relationships as transient and impermanent and disposable? argh. they can't work out the value of a relationship until it's too late.
    sometimes true. which is why they need patient partners who can maybe wait for them to figure it out.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  8. #168
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    and actually it wasn't someone or some happening recently ... i was just mulling over Fi polr-ness and thinking of XLEs in general and why i'm supposed to be compatible with them... i did have a bad experience with an ILE but that was a while ago (still so painful thinking about it however)... and just feeling general melancholy
    oh good. I'm glad it's not specific sadness! (although sometimes general melancholy can be just as bad...)
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  9. #169
    betterthan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    TIM
    IEI!
    Posts
    620
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    sometimes true. which is why they need patient partners who can maybe wait for them to figure it out.
    lol, meh, yeah suppose so?

    At least we know it's down to Fi-Polr, but when I had no fucking idea about Fi-Polrs, I got into sagas over these people, thinking they just didn't care about me anymore. Then to have them pop up telling me they love me or miss me a lot and want to hang out - it trips your head.
    And it's just the timing, so impractical for them to just come back when they finally have it all worked out - by that time you have moved on.

    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

  10. #170
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    At least we know it's down to Fi-Polr, but when I had no fucking idea about Fi-Polrs, I got into sagas over these people, thinking they just didn't care about me anymore. Then to have them pop up telling me they love me or miss me a lot and want to hang out - it trips your head.
    And it's just the timing, so impractical for them to just come back when they finally have it all worked out - by that time you have moved on.
    yip. It does help a little bit, knowing what it is, though, doesn't it? I mean, it helps to know that it's this difficulty they have, not anything about YOU necessarily.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  11. #171
    betterthan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    TIM
    IEI!
    Posts
    620
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    yip. It does help a little bit, knowing what it is, though, doesn't it? I mean, it helps to know that it's this difficulty they have, not anything about YOU necessarily.
    haha yeah, exactly , i'd probably just see it as slightly annoying these days, more than anything (as oppose to painful), kind of amusing...
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

  12. #172
    JRiddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Indian Territory
    TIM
    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so
    Posts
    838
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Glam, I don't know anything good about Fi PoLR. But I do know that you are a beautiful and intelligent woman, and that's part of who you are, and nothing any of us Fi-PoLR idiots can do can take that away from you.

    JRiddy
    —————King of Socionics—————

    Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so

  13. #173
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    i'm so down and pessimistic on it right now.


    maybe i'm just focusing too much on the negative aspects i've seen from it... how easily opportunistic they are even at the expense of other's feelings... how they can view relationships as transient and impermanent and disposable... disrespecting boundaries... thinking they're in love when they're really not... hurting you (badly) first to avoid getting hurt themselves...


    tell me something good about it!
    "If you wanna make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make a change"

    A good thing about weak is that it is willing to give someone a chance where most others are not.

  14. #174
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,714
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    lol, meh, yeah suppose so?

    At least we know it's down to Fi-Polr, but when I had no fucking idea about Fi-Polrs, I got into sagas over these people, thinking they just didn't care about me anymore. Then to have them pop up telling me they love me or miss me a lot and want to hang out - it trips your head.
    And it's just the timing, so impractical for them to just come back when they finally have it all worked out - by that time you have moved on.

    ack....so true. oh well yeah but what red and diana are saying is right...you can't really offend us, we'll tolerate a lot. the only ones who can offend is somebody who's super concerned with Fi all the time. it's Fe that keeps it movin for us. yeah, that's the way we roll lol. it's better for us not to be in charge of relationships...we're better off to handle things and plans and strategies and logistics. leave the relational stuff to our Fe ethical compadres.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  15. #175
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    ack....so true. oh well yeah but what red and diana are saying is right...you can't really offend us, we'll tolerate a lot. the only ones who can offend is somebody who's super concerned with Fi all the time. it's Fe that keeps it movin for us. yeah, that's the way we roll lol. it's better for us not to be in charge of relationships...we're better off to handle things and plans and strategies and logistics. leave the relational stuff to our Fe ethical compadres.
    hey Blaze did I tell you there's this woman I sing with in my choir who is ILE--we sit next to each other and we've been having the best time! last night I looked at her and she knew exactly what I was thinking and we both started laughing. But she usually has this kinda serious but irreverent expression on her face that makes me want to make her laugh. I love it! I almost have her talked into taking the motorcycle class in the spring and then we can ride together! She reminds me a bit of you (not looks--she's older and you're way prettier. ) but just with the way we communicate. Anyway, too much fun with Fi Polrs!!!!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  16. #176
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,714
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    hey Blaze did I tell you there's this woman I sing with in my choir who is ILE--we sit next to each other and we've been having the best time! last night I looked at her and she knew exactly what I was thinking and we both started laughing. But she usually has this kinda serious but irreverent expression on her face that makes me want to make her laugh. I love it! I almost have her talked into taking the motorcycle class in the spring and then we can ride together! She reminds me a bit of you (not looks--she's older and you're way prettier. ) but just with the way we communicate. Anyway, too much fun with Fi Polrs!!!!

    that's awesome, lol. how cool if she decides to ride along huh? then you'd have a riding partner in crime! :-) thanks, too, friend!

    and how cool is it that you and others like you actually think there's an up side to Fi polr??!! i'm amazed...hehehe

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  17. #177
    xkj220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    546
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    But if the XLE's are "made for" their xEI duals (and vice-versa), how is it that this xLE's "unattachment" that they seem to have bothers the xIE's so much ?

  18. #178
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,248
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Doesn't bother me. :-p I find it more disturbing than not if someone is not relating to me based on the current situation. I mean that if someone has formed this strong bond to me which things I'm doing in the present don't serve to weaken.. then that seems to me more a cause for concern. It makes me feel safe to know that at least one of us is being relatively cool-headed about things and has non-fluffy reasons for why we're together. I don't see the problem with someone walking away if they no longer want to be with me, because I'd hate to think that the person was with me mainly because of some kind of "dedication to the cause" commitment they'd made. How supremely unromantic! :-P It's painful to hang around someone who doesn't enjoy your company anyway.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  19. #179
    xkj220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    546
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    *applause* I think a lot of people could learn from what you've just written. But the way I see it, I think the best way --the most "romantic" one-- is that someone is with you because they genuinely want to be with you. Not because they find you fun, or they think you are awesome of whatever. Fuck! If not the instant they find someone who "amuses" them more, they'll leave you stranded for sure!

    On a somewhat unrelated note, something that pisses me off to no end: I hate to see these amazing type of girls who just don't value themselves. These girls that expose themselves to "sharks" who only want to get in their pants. Like the hunters they are, they smell low-self-esteemed girls from a mile away. A few compliments and they know they'll get the piece of ass that they seek. Awful.

  20. #180
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,248
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    *applause* I think a lot of people could learn from what you've just written. But the way I see it, I think the best way --the most "romantic" one-- is that someone is with you because they genuinely want to be with you. Not because they find you fun, or they think you are awesome of whatever. Fuck! If not the instant they find someone who "amuses" them more, they'll leave you stranded for sure!
    Yeah, I agree. Sounded a bit more superficial than I meant it to. :-p
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  21. #181
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,313
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Fi PoLR/Fe HA audio help

    I heard this audio sample from socionics.com dedicated to the EXTp, and I must say it was enlightening, and I think it might help me a lot. There were some Fi PoLR themes in there actually (like getting in touch with those shared sentimental feelings), but I'm not sure if most of it was just dedicated to a batch of unhealthy over-serious anti-socialites. What do you think?

    Type and the hidden agenda

    To me the theme could quite possibly be, "how to achieve some kind of essential Fi-ness by developing your Fe."

  22. #182
    ladyinred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    115
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    Alrighty. I remember that a while back, when everyone was ENTp, everyone would complain a ton about PoLRs. You'd hear people talking about how they're soooo0oo00OO00o handicapped because of their "lack of Fi." People would often use it as an excuse to be nasty bitches towards others, claiming that they're entitled to do so, because they don't understand social norms and such. As a SLE, with a PoLR myself, I can safely say that it's all bullshit. Make use of a little bit of , and all social issues tend to resolve themselves. Having as a PoLR isn't really a problem at all in social situations, but rather it takes its effect in another form:

    An over-simplified description of :



    In myself and other SLEs I have observed, it seems as if one of the main manifestations of the PoLR is having difficulty of establishing close relations with others, whether good or bad. (I can't really speak for ILEs here, because I'm not one of them, and it is possible that they behave somewhat differently with their PoLR). One day, an ISFp friend noted, "You know, it seems as if you don't actually dislike anyone, really. That's kinda cool!" In a way, she was right. If you asked me to name off all of my enemies, there would be no one on my list. If I get angry or irritated at someone, it'll last at most a couple of days. After that, all grudges disappear, and I return to a neutral state towards that person. It's kind of a state of not liking them, but not hating them either. My way of thinking is that it feels like shit to hate people, so therefore, in order to not feel like shit, I don't hate people. I do this on an unconcious level.

    But there is a flipside to the coin! Just as it's hard for me to hate people, it's also very hard for me to love people. Besides my immediate family, I have never loved anyone. The closest I have ever came to loving someone (but never did) was towards my IEI friend, as well as another SLE, simply because we understood each other so well. Both were guys. Otherwise, my "neutrality mechanism" begins to kick in again. With people I consider friends, I joke around with, play sports with, party with, and talk with them. The catch is, that once they move out of my life for a short while, I tend to forget about them, and get new replacement friends. I have lost contact with tons of people, as much as I don't want that to happen. They become neutral again, just like any people whom I actually dislike. It is very hard for me to establish close relationships, and when I do, it takes an extremely long time for me to actually feel anything towards that person. I have reached this point with the IEI and the SLE only. When I don't see them for a while, I don't really miss them, but once I see them again, I remember how great friends they were, and that I should really stay closer with them. Of course, it's hard for me to follow through with that, thus repeating the cycle.

    One of the last major ways that the PoLR has an effect is on how I interact with people. I could use all the I want, and that creates a happy-effect on the people I talk with. However, I rarely actually feel the things that I show outwardly. One way I notice this is when my ESI mom introduces me to one of her friends, I smile until my jaw gets tired, do the hand-shaking, high voice, pleasant language, etc. It gives my mom and her friends what they're looking for me to do. However, in reality, I don't really give a shit! It's sort of a pseudo-feeling; I can trick myself into believing that I care and feel the same thing that I'm expressing about whatever I'm doing the to, but that soon passes. This often times takes place when I'm trying to be polite, during social situations and such. I go home sort of empty at times, because of all that faking. If I do it over a long period of time though, like when interacting with the IEI and the SLE that I mentioned previously, I do actually feel these things. This is an extreme rarity, though, and it's most likely not a cooincidence that they're my dual and identical pairs.

    There is is. I hope that this post can help people realize that having a poor DOES NOT make one socially inept. I'm not what one would consider socially retarded, and most other SLEs aren't either, despite the PoLR! People should learn to make the best of their PoLR, rather than bitching about it. A better way of dealing with it, is understanding how it manifests itself, identifying it, learning to work with it, and discovering alternatives and ways to work around it. I did so by forcing myself to not hate or dislike people, in the manner that I described above. It's both a strength and a weakness, and I am learning to accept that, learn from it, make the best of what I've got, and to not stress about it when someone hits the PoLR. Chances are, they didn't do it on purpose anyways, and people will not think of you much differently if that does happen.

    Peace.
    great, great post!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, whether you have strong or not doesn't really make a difference on what morals you have, how many you have, and whether you do something about them or not. For example, all people have SOME kind of ethical principals. However a person chooses to behave is a definate part of their morals and ethical principals. For example, if I choose to talk a lot in school, that is part of my ethical principals saying that it's okay for me to talk a lot in school. Same goes for someone who chooses to remain quiet. Another example would be if you deem it inapropriate to jump up on the table at a fancy dinner party and strip and shake your ass around, this is also one of your ethical principals. If you think that it's not good to post gay porn on a Socionics forum, that's also your morals speaking. The difference however, is that often times, types are better at determining what the majority of a group, society or institution's ethical principals are. Because of this, they are often more skilled at choosing how to act, according to what everyone's unspoken principals are given the situation. People with a weaker tend to have more trouble doing this, and thus it takes them much more effort in order to determine how it is acceptable to behave in certain situations. For me, the difficulty for me to connect with people causes me to not understand what their principals are, and therefore, have a tougher time figuring these things out. This doesn't make it impossible, though! Make use of a little , , or some other function in order to figure these things out, and everything fits together in social situations.



    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    ESTps are pretty good at picking up signals that others send off, whether it be voice inflection, movements, body language, social cues etc. They see it with the , process it as having some kind of significance, but don't know what the fuck it all means, unless they do hours of painful analyzation afterwards.

    When ESTps see these things, and subjectively interperate it as being negative, they distance themselves from the other person, conciously. Even if this is only perceived and not real, they still do it also. For example, if I'm talking to someone, and they don't really respond in a demonstrative manner, but rather respond with "Yeah," and "Hmmmm...," I'll think, "I must be doing something wrong here, and they probably don't want to talk anymore." In these situations, it matters who I am talking to to provoke a certain reaction. With my friends, I can be blunt. I can ask questions, such as, "Does my breath stink?" or "Am I boring the fuck out of you?" and the such, and they'll usually laugh, and give me a good answer in response. Most of the time, they weren't disinterested in the slightest, but of course, I couldn't figure that out. With people who aren't good friends, I can't ask things like that, and this is where the PoLR comes in again. When people respond in a manner which seems negative in my point of view, I can't gauge what exactly the reason for it is. I can't tell if I'm boring them, if I'm being rude, or what the issue is. Maybe they're not even reacting in a negative manner at all in the first place!

    When this happens and I decide that it's not going well, I take the easiest route for me to do: distance myself dramatically. Not only does this protect the PoLR and Hidden Agenda from being exposed to the other person, but it gives me a break so that I can take more time to figure out what exactly was happening, which is often hard to do on the spot in conversation.
    what do SLEs do if or when they 'figure out exactly what was happening,' do they take it as a lesson and live and learn or will they try to reapproach the one they distanced themselves from?? i know an SLE who distances himself never to return, or maybe only if the other person is the one to reestablish contact, but is it this way for other SLEs too??

    When ESTps aren't really confident on what to do in a social, situation, they sort of act on-guard, and become much more cold and less demonstrative and/or openly active. The motto seems to be that of, "I can't get too close to this person, because if they don't like me, my existance is royally fucked." The times when you are blind to people's thoughts towards you in conversation are the times when you get shat on in public, and get your reputation fucked behind your back without even realizing it yourself. We try to avoid that from happening, by keeping a certain amount of distance from people. That way, if they do do something crappy to you publically, at least you didn't care about them all that much anyways.

    It really hurts like hell to get your PoLR slapped, especially in public. I remember one particular time, back when I was twelve years old. I was at camp, and on the Ropes Course. So this one girl was on this climb called the "Pamper Plank," where you have to climb 43 feet in the air, and jump off this platform and catch a hanging bar that was somewhere between 7 and 8 feet away. (you were on bolay when you do it of course, so you're completely safe). So this girl, she's standing on the plank for a good twenty minutes, not really doing anything, too scared to jump and try it. Of course, this irritated my action-seeking . I wanted to see some action happen! So yeah, like after twenty minutes up there, she doesn't jump, but gets lowered down, sort of crying. So people were crowding around her, asking her things like, "Are you okay?" So me, not thinking before I say stuff, I go, "Why were you up there for so long?" This girl that I know, a year older, glares at me, and goes, "LAURAAA!!!!!" in this really angry tone. The girl who was up there sort of looked at me, but didn't answer. Immediately, I felt like slapping myself in the face multiple times. What the fuck was I thinking, saying something like that? I didn't perceive it as being rude at the time, but apparently, it was. For the rest of the day, I was mentally slapping myself in the face. Let's just say, the car ride home with that girl who slapped my PoLR (not the one up on the climb) was extremely awkward. She didn't seem to care really, but the fact that my PoLR was kicked hard in the hoo-hah caused me to never forget that, and also permanently changed how I respond to people in this kind of situation.

    Another extension of this, is that I'll do things that are completely inapropriate for the situation. Like I'll do things like laugh at a funeral (figuratively, not literally), wear gym shorts and a track jacket to a semi-formal event, or talk to someone in a manner that is not appropriate when taking account into their age and social class or status. Whenever I do these types of things and realize it afterwards, I do the same sort of mental self bitch-slapping.

    When things like this happen, it causes me to develop sort of a protective barrier, or defense mechanism in response. This is why I never let people get too close to me, because it makes the PoLR extremely vulnerable. To this day, albeit the confident exterior, I am often unsure of how to behave in different situations. I usually copy others in this area, assuming whatever they're doing looks relatively plausable and not too stupid.
    Fi polr or no Fi polr, SLEs

  23. #183
    ladyinred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    115
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    When I distance myself, it's usually only when I'm talking to one particular person, rather than a whole group. I generally do it by talking less, becoming more cold, and sort of trying to put an end to the conversation. When it's with a group of people, I do that much less often, because usually I can provoke a good reaction out of at least a few people from the group. And about the friends thing...I do have a lot of them, but after a while, they fade out of friendship if I haven't talked to them for a while. I don't really have an issue with this, because I don't get too attached to people in the first place.

    And a lot of people don't really know the real me. I have somehow figured out how to get people to tell me a ton of stuff about themselves, but keeping any information about myself that could possibly be used against me away from them, and in private. Although I don't really feel the need to keep stuff private about myself (I am relatively open), I figured out that it's to my greatest advantage if I know more about the other person than they do about me. People do think they know the real me, but what they really know is the image that I conciously present to others, which may or may not be much like me at all, depending on the situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post

    On the other hand, I have no personal gripes against SLEs at all. I was forced to live with one for 4 months, and we would have very vocal arguments, but when we parted ways and ran into each other a year later, it was as if nothing bad had happened. I like them for their impulsiveness and will to make things happen... now.

    I think with SLEs and with all types in general, when a person is by himself and starts to ruminate about his problems, he tends to dwell on the weakness of his Super-ego functions. But in real-life interaction with duals and activators (especially), his attention is switched to the Super-id functions that he keeps forgetting about on his own, and the supposed Super-ego problems just sort of resolve themselves. So I think the solution to SLEs' ethical difficulties is to focus on , not . Often I see them bringing people together for eating and drinking and sharing funny stories (with lots of loud hearty laughter), and many are very generous as a way of winning people over ("buying them with "). Also, part of Beta quadra's emphasis on emotional unity (making sure everyone is emotionally involved) comes from SLE's vulnerable . By making sure everyone is emotionally involved, they can avoid situations where people might relate to them negatively (a negative feeling towards them) but not show it. They can weed these people out by looking at whether they express the group emotions or not.
    sounds true ime

    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    Basically, I see as a supporter for everything I take in via (obviously, haha). What I do, is I take in a bunch of information using the . Then, I use the to organize it all into its importance. For example, I use pretty often when I teach swimming lessons. I'll see exactly what the kids are doing using my . I'll take note of their movements, speed, positioning, form, etc. Then, I'll use my subjective model of what their strokes are supposed to look like, then compare it to the information I've obtained through my base function . When I do this, I can see what they're doing wrong. Then, I'll use the even more to formulate a method as to get them to improve. I'll determine which areas need immediate working on, and which things can slide for now. This helps them improve in a much more rapid manner than if I weren't using at all, because then they'd be working on all the wrong things at the wrong time.

    So what does this all mean to me? Simply put, I see as one's logical analysis based on their own formulated standards. Of course, because of this, it'll vary between person to person, and often times there will be a large difference between one's and another's. This is especially true depending on whether it supports or is supported by or . I use the to support my , which means that it's mainly under the influence of as well (duh ). Therefore, I use it to help with the whole organization in heirarchies, to know the laws of living (hard to explain here), and to figure out the relative importance of various variables. people would use it differently, so I can't really speak for them right here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    That is key, I think: weak Fi types (all ExTx) tend to "wait for familiarity," or for others to establish it, rather than taking an active role in its development. They will be polite, make conversation, etc, but they never make that extra "push" to really connect with someone.
    really? i have known SLEs to be very bold in this regard, maybe they are just faking it until they are making it though and feel insecure inside even as they move boldly on the outside??

  24. #184
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,682
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Interesting. It explains many things I have observed. Also it mirrors my own Fe PoLR. As you [Herzy] have said about being unsure of "true sentiments", I am unsure of any sentiment. I am highly sensitive and vulnerable to insults, and too much attention(e.g. staring).

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post

    really? i have known SLEs to be very bold in this regard, maybe they are just faking it until they are making it though and feel insecure inside even as they move boldly on the outside??
    I have observed this. It comes in steps. Initially they are proactive and take the first move. But wait on the other person to provide positive feedback. They are not being fake, but merely keeping people at a distance until the other person proves himself.

  25. #185
    IEI- UK IEI's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    339
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I was looking for a place to post about my observaions of Fi Polar in action. I don't think SLE's understand the implications of ignoring other peoples wishes and desires (and imposing their own) and how this can irritate people and make them turn against the SLE. Personally I don't mind (usually) bending to SLE's whims but many others will reluctantly agree to do what the SLE wants but over time this builds up and they become resentful. As SLE has forgotten about a situation the next day SLE doesn't realise that the following week the person they have pushed into doing what they want is going to be wary of interacting with them as situations can end up being win lose.

  26. #186
    Imagine Timeless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Francisco, CA.
    TIM
    ILE/ENTp
    Posts
    817
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Lightbulb

    I realized no ENTp, while shares PoLR with ESTp, gave no input.

    I'll share what I can that's related to this subject:

    (Never mind these scattered thoughts, I wrote different parts on different areas)

    I can talk to lots of different people, I can share stories, even embarrassing ones, I've done that with total strangers, but I have a very hard time trusting people.

    Once trust has been broken I don't see any point, or reason trying to repair it. That's like buying a car with leaky pipes, you can repair it, but it was faulty from the beginning, and yes you can buy a whole new suspension, electrical, engine system or replace the whole body, but remember it let you down: that car. You can't erase what has been done, and you don't really know what can happen in the future. Personally, I've never fucked anyone over, I just don't work that way. I don't expect anyone to think like me, but I know there are people like that in this world who think otherwise for their own sound reasons and judgements. Knowing this fact pretty much puts me up on guarded with people, in regards with trust that is. I don't fuck around with others. For example, when someone opens up to me or shares something personal I take that very seriously. I take that as a sign that this person trusts me, and that I can trust that person. I know people love to belittle others or have that power to use other's weaknesses against them, but I just can't work that way. I don't see any point of doing "good with bad." That doesn't mean I don't like to have fun, I actually do, it's just I want to know I'm in a safe place before doing so. I felt like a kid writing that last sentence. In a world filled with judgmental, self-righteous, malicious, mysterious, game-playing people, it's very hard to let go and let your guard down.

    It sounds like I may demand perfection, not at all. Imperfection is more better, let's me know you're human just like me. It's just I really pay attention to a person's integrity and principles. It takes a very long time for me to trust anybody. In regards to love, it's very hard for me to fall in love and feel something for somebody, but it's very easy to fall out of it. This can make me come across as cold, but the way I see it, it's more like "Oh, this is the way it really was/I didn't know this car had a problem." not "Time to disconnect. Goodbye." as others may perceive it.

    In regards with other things, I just don't know. I admit, I am a social geek. I do all sorts of geeky stuff with the people I'm close to or good friends with. In the company of new people, I'm usually observant and distant. Not cold, just less involved for the sake of understanding where each person is coming from. I don't see no reason to hate or dislike anyone. The way I see it is me and another person will have different feelings, varying opinions or distinctive belief systems; why go against or hate on that? That's like drawing a circle and splitting that in half and calling the other side "bad" and calling the other side "good." This keeps my mind neutral and open to all. And even though I don't like it at all, sometimes I can be polite and courteous though. I'm not a fan of small talk and see right through the bullshit almost always, but the way I can explain myself:

    I'm very much an open book, but I don't force anyone to read.

    Then again, there are some days where I just don't want to talk to anybody, there have been days where I left parties, clubs, bars, events walking straight home. For instance, two New Year's ago, I stepped out of my family's house and walked to the city limits of San Carlos. I didn't plan on it. I guess others will call that "moody" but I call it, "relaxing" to reflect, to get away, or what I enjoy most: silence. If I can enjoy doing absolutely nothing being completely silent with someone, that's pretty much a friend for life. All my close friends know this. They understand that some days I'm distant and some days I'm here. I will actually feel more comfortable with someone who can enjoy silence as opposed to someone yapping away all the time. So yeah, I can be cold as rock, but the people who know me very well know this: I can never hold back a laugh or a reaction.

    My best friend (ESFj) knew how to cheer me up when I was in a down mood one time:

    We were driving and I was looking outside the window ignoring everything he was saying not responsive. He sped up the car, and starting yelling (in a joking way) "You want me to crash this car into a brick wall? Huh?! Huh!? We're gonna die today if you don't tell me what the fuck is wrong!"

    My other best friend (INFp) did something so simple and stupid it made me crack up when I was trying to remain silent when I was in my distant mood; he just waved his hands up in the air and said "Look, Fe!" I laughed hard.

    However, when I'm angry, stressed, or pissed, I usually remain quiet and step away from everybody. Again, the way I see it, there is no reason to lash out with insults, wrongdoing, or violence on people, that's pointless. I don't believe in the "boiling pot" thing. I just think things through, I consider myself like a computer; defragmentation and optimization. I like to do that then communicate things through, not in the heat of a moment because I know situational emotions and instances can cloud what's going on and what can happen.

    Oh yeah, I found this kinda ironic: Whenever someone throws a compliment, while kinda nice to hear, I usually ignore it. I don't see any point in it. I hardly give them myself. Whenever someone throws an insult, while kinda funny to hear, I usually ignore it. I don't see any point in it. I hardly give them myself. I almost never say things like "You are so cool," "My best friend," etc. The weird thing is it makes me secure to hear that from people. I can tell when someone is speaking "from the heart" vs. their mouth. Like the above, I take that seriously and meaningfully, not to be messed with. Don't get me wrong, I want to do it myself with others, but I just don't know the right times to do it. Like a piano, it will sound good when the note is right, not off.

    ...And I don't mind waiting to hear the perfect notes before I know I can play too.

  27. #187
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default related to Fi-polr?

    Might it be related to Fi-polr if someone is jumping around with the distance in a relationship? For example, acting "close" to someone one day and then more formal the next. Like they're waiting for clues from the other person as to what the relationship is. Acting unsure in written communication--signing one's full name with a salutation in a more formal way, then at other times using only the first initial and other times nothing at all. Anyone have experience with someone doing this?

  28. #188
    limNol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w5 sx/so
    Posts
    130
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You could be right; if not, Fi PoLR, at least weak Fi. D'you have a specific type in mind? IME, some intertype relations also seem to lead to a chaotic pattern of constant shifts in distance, so it's also possible that they have fairly strong Fi but just can't get on the same page as you and find this disconcerting.

  29. #189
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by limNol View Post
    You could be right; if not, Fi PoLR, at least weak Fi. D'you have a specific type in mind? IME, some intertype relations also seem to lead to a chaotic pattern of constant shifts in distance, so it's also possible that they have fairly strong Fi but just can't get on the same page as you and find this disconcerting.
    SLE-Ti or LSI-Se. And I'm beta NF, prolly IEI. I don't mind it. It's actually kinda funny. but a little odd at the same time!

  30. #190
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,479
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Might it be related to Fi-polr if someone is jumping around with the distance in a relationship? For example, acting "close" to someone one day and then more formal the next. Like they're waiting for clues from the other person as to what the relationship is. Acting unsure in written communication--signing one's full name with a salutation in a more formal way, then at other times using only the first initial and other times nothing at all. Anyone have experience with someone doing this?
    I think it depends. I do this too, depending on what the purpose of the email is and accordingly with how the other person is signing themselves, etiquette, etc. Like, I am on a first name basis with my boss and if it's just emails between the two of us, we just use first names, first initials, or nothing at all (say if he quickly responded to a question on his blackberry). If we are both communicating with, say, an editor of a journal publishing our article, we'll both refer to each other formally as Dr. so and so (and we'll use our full names when signing, sometimes I just use my first name when the editor used her first name). I guess you could say that's me adjusting psychological distance as necessary or conforming to hierarchy, dont know.

    I guess, if this is happening just randomly for no apparent reason, maybe that does reflect Fi-POLR.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  31. #191
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    287 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Might it be related to Fi-polr if someone is jumping around with the distance in a relationship? For example, acting "close" to someone one day and then more formal the next. Like they're waiting for clues from the other person as to what the relationship is. Acting unsure in written communication--signing one's full name with a salutation in a more formal way, then at other times using only the first initial and other times nothing at all. Anyone have experience with someone doing this?
    I've been known to do this. It's a lack of confidence in being able to read what a relationship is, and sometimes you think it's okay to act one way, and other times, you're just not sure and you don't want to assume too much.

  32. #192
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East of the sun, west of the moon
    TIM
    SLI 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    13,710
    Mentioned
    196 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Dear Dr. WA,

    I would like to take this opportunity to address you for no reason.

    Sincerely yours,
    Parkster
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  33. #193
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Might it be related to Fi-polr if someone is jumping around with the distance in a relationship? For example, acting "close" to someone one day and then more formal the next. Like they're waiting for clues from the other person as to what the relationship is. Acting unsure in written communication--signing one's full name with a salutation in a more formal way, then at other times using only the first initial and other times nothing at all. Anyone have experience with someone doing this?
    I think it's weak Fi and also weak Ne. Weak Ne as when someone acts in a way the Beta ST isn't expecting, they can become a little paralysed trying to use their Ne to work out the possibilities of why, so outwardly they'll behave formally/pleasant formalities. It's probably more for an Ne PoLR falling back on their role Fi.

  34. #194
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,682
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    But with role Fi, you have leading Ti, meaning you'd be less inclined to ponder the issue when not addressing it, in accordance with theory. If you are actively confused about it, I'm pretty sure there is some Fx PoLRness going on.

  35. #195
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,479
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Dear Dr. WA,

    I would like to take this opportunity to address you for no reason.

    Sincerely yours,
    Parkster
    LOL!!!

    Parkster,

    No need for such formalities.

    ,
    W.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  36. #196
    jessica129's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,121
    Mentioned
    77 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ha this is something I do all the time. Even the formal thing. It's kinda funny. Dunno if it's related, but I'll call someone up that has known me my entire life and assume they have no idea who I am so I start with an introduction and they're all wtf are you doing.

  37. #197
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,315
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Ha this is something I do all the time. Even the formal thing. It's kinda funny. Dunno if it's related, but I'll call someone up that has known me my entire life and assume they have no idea who I am so I start with an introduction and they're all wtf are you doing.
    too funny....

  38. #198
    Imagine Timeless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Francisco, CA.
    TIM
    ILE/ENTp
    Posts
    817
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Might it be related to Fi-polr if someone is jumping around with the distance in a relationship? For example, acting "close" to someone one day and then more formal the next. Like they're waiting for clues from the other person as to what the relationship is. Acting unsure in written communication--signing one's full name with a salutation in a more formal way, then at other times using only the first initial and other times nothing at all. Anyone have experience with someone doing this?
    ...I have experienced doing that, a whole lot. I'm usually that way, on and off, towards people in that very long "getting to know you" phase.

  39. #199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    For example, acting "close" to someone one day and then more formal the next.?
    i do this a lot but in a more clean-cut way. it is very very annoying when it comes from others,nontheless.
    Last edited by Kalinoche buenanoche; 12-14-2010 at 05:25 PM.

  40. #200
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,072
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Ha this is something I do all the time. Even the formal thing. It's kinda funny. Dunno if it's related, but I'll call someone up that has known me my entire life and assume they have no idea who I am so I start with an introduction and they're all wtf are you doing.
    I kinda do that too. Maybe not with like, my best friend in the world, but with people who I'm close enough with that they should know who I am.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

Page 5 of 19 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •