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Thread: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood

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    Everything you have described here is what makes it difficult for me to deal with people like yourself (no offense) and especially those who would fall under ESTj. I can smell people who are faking nicety easily, the like you describe about smiling but not giving a shit. To tell you the truth, there is much more hardship for me to deal with ESTjs than ESTps. Reason being that you don't really care about people but it is something that "is," I am not fooled by it. I understand there are people that way, and I do not expect more out of them. However, it is considerably more painful for me to discern sometimes whether a ESTj "type" truly does something motivated by selfishness or out of genuine good will, and to know if they really like you.

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    Kraus wrote:
    ESTjs don't have as a PoLR though, so there is a difference.

    One thing I'd like to clear up: the thing about "not giving a shit" isn't quite as harsh as i may have made it sound like. My rough translation of that would be that I sort of care at the moment, but once it's done, it's done, and I don't really think about it again. I am actually not incapable of feeling.
    I know what you meant. I mentioned it in a detached manner, not angry at you or anything.

    ESTjs do not have an " PoLR" based on this theory, but maybe because of that, they can, in a way, "play around with being caring" rather than taking it seriously. People who are not obvious as to when they genuinely care and don't, mess my mind like no other. It causes a lot of confusion to me.

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    Default Re: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    People should learn to make the best of their PoLR, rather than bitching about it. A better way of dealing with it, is understanding how it manifests itself, identifying it, learning to work with it, and discovering alternatives and ways to work around it.
    ...
    It's both a strength and a weakness, and I am learning to accept that, learn from it, make the best of what I've got, and to not stress about it when someone hits the PoLR. Chances are, they didn't do it on purpose anyways, and people will not think of you much differently if that does happen.

    Peace.
    This is awesome, Kraus!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanum
    Kraus wrote:
    ESTjs don't have as a PoLR though, so there is a difference.

    One thing I'd like to clear up: the thing about "not giving a shit" isn't quite as harsh as i may have made it sound like. My rough translation of that would be that I sort of care at the moment, but once it's done, it's done, and I don't really think about it again. I am actually not incapable of feeling.
    I know what you meant. I mentioned it in a detached manner, not angry at you or anything.

    ESTjs do not have an " PoLR" based on this theory, but maybe because of that, they can, in a way, "play around with being caring" rather than taking it seriously. People who are not obvious as to when they genuinely care and don't, mess my mind like no other. It causes a lot of confusion to me.
    Is Fe your POLR?

    ESTJs and other use Fe to fake people out.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Is Fe your POLR?
    No, it is not. I fall under INFj in this theory. It's not that it makes me uncomfortable. It is the intention in displaying affection.

    ESTJs and other use Fe to fake people out.
    This is exactly what messes with my mind, and it hurts a lot. I can't explain how confusing it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanum
    Everything you have described here is what makes it difficult for me to deal with people like yourself (no offense) and especially those who would fall under ESTj. I can smell people who are faking nicety easily, the like you describe about smiling but not giving a shit. To tell you the truth, there is much more hardship for me to deal with ESTjs than ESTps. Reason being that you don't really care about people but it is something that "is," I am not fooled by it. I understand there are people that way, and I do not expect more out of them. However, it is considerably more painful for me to discern sometimes whether a ESTj "type" truly does something motivated by selfishness or out of genuine good will, and to know if they really like you.
    Kraus' post made me think about this too, how phoniness is what's most annoying to me (in any type) and how this has had me wonder about the INFj-ESTj duality aswell. Maybe I need to meet more ESTjs, but I wouldn't trust any of those I know to any large extent. I think that's the greatest effect of on my expectation of others - I want people to be honest. It's probably inconsistency in morals rather than bad morals that ticks me off. Ethics is subjective after all.

    The pushiness of some ESTps can be annoying too, but not all of them are pushy. Other than that the biggest issue I have with them is that I can't follow their directions because it means nothing to me. That's frustrating, but not offensive.

    And for the record, Kraus, we all fake it a little and you don't annoy me.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanum
    Is Fe your POLR?
    No, it is not. I fall under INFj in this theory. It's not that it makes me uncomfortable. It is the intention in displaying affection.

    ESTJs and other use Fe to fake people out.
    This is exactly what messes with my mind, and it hurts a lot. I can't explain how confusing it is.
    I think Fe can be authentic and fake. I think it's easy to tell but that's me. There is nothing wrong with honestly caring :/ And if there is, I dont want to be right!

    eh, that was cheesy lol.

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    Best example of Fi polr, from a quote of a Kraus post on another forum:


    "Anyways, I know some ESTps, and I usually get along well with most of them. For example, there's this one kid in my gym class, an ESTp. All of my friends think that he's a total jerk / asshole, but I somhow understand it all, and see right through him. When we were running the mile, he was with this other kid (who's not an estp), but they were walking it because they didn't care. So they were purposely blocking off everyone, trying to increase [the runners'] times."

    Instead of letting other people do their duty and finish their task, they prefer to selfishly do nothing and proceed blocking others in order to not to be scolded. Ridicolous!

    (By the way, I do exactly the same with the "fake politness" to strangers. I personally think that nobody can GENUINELY like somebody without knowing him/her)
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    By the way, usually social retardation is (no offense) considered domain of PoLR, IME.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    lol that was somewhat the theme of the new animation in the theatre called "Cars."


    NOT that I went and saw a kids movie or anything!

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    Default Re: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    (By the way, I do exactly the same with the "fake politness" to strangers. I personally think that nobody can GENUINELY like somebody without knowing him/her)
    Of course, everyone does the fake politeness to strangers. But I think Kraus meant something else:


    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    It's sort of a pseudo-feeling; I can trick myself into believing that I care and feel the same thing that I'm expressing about whatever I'm doing the to, but that soon passes. This often times takes place when I'm trying to be polite, during social situations and such. I go home sort of empty at times, because of all that faking.
    The key thing is the "trick myself into believing that I care and feel". That is precisely how Jung describes Extraverted Feeling. Types who have preference of over will be polite in their behavior, but never trick themselves that they are feeling something they are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    There is is. I hope that this post can help people realize that having a poor DOES NOT make one socially inept. I'm not what one would consider socially retarded, and most other SLEs aren't either, despite the PoLR!
    People who think that simply do not understand the functions. The PoLR is precisely how you described it.

    Social ineptness is more related to PoLR or perhaps as FDG said, but INFjs have PoLR and are hardly socially inept.

    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Kraus' post made me think about this too, how phoniness is what's most annoying to me (in any type) and how this has had me wonder about the INFj-ESTj duality aswell. Maybe I need to meet more ESTjs, but I wouldn't trust any of those I know to any large extent.
    ESTjs have as dual-seeking and as role function, just like ENTjs. So they also prefer to and it's the sincere from INFjs that they need. So if you think that ESTjs are particularly phony, I have to conclude that those "ESTjs" are really ISTjs or ESTps.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    One thing I'd like to clear up: the thing about "not giving a shit" isn't quite as harsh as i may have made it sound like. My rough translation of that would be that I sort of care at the moment, but once it's done, it's done, and I don't really think about it again. I am actually not incapable of feeling.
    Actually types might be inclined to say that, yes, this shows that you are incapable of true feelings.

    I think your contribution in this thread to describing the PoLR has been awesome. Especially since many still think that is only about ethical principles. Hats off to you.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    This reminds me somewhat to a quote of Eric Fromm:
    "What is true for the selfish, is also true for the narcistic people. Their omnipresent interest is less to acquire something, but more to admire themselves. Cursory viewed they seem to be in love with themselves; but in fact they dislike themselves and try to compensate their essential lack on self love with narcism. Freud demonstrates that narcists retread his love away from others and turn to the own person. The first part of the statement is correct, the second one is a sophism. He loves neither the others nor himself."

    In original:
    "Was für den Selbstsüchtigen gilt, gilt auch für den narzisstischen Menschen. Dessen allgegenwärtiges Interesse ist es weniger, sich Dinge anzueignen, als vielmehr sich selbst zu bewundern. Oberflächlich betrachtet scheinen diese Menschen in sich selbst verliebt zu sein; in Wirklichkeit aber können sie sich nicht leiden, und mit ihrem Narzissmus wie mit der Selbstsucht kompensieren sie einen grundlegenden Mangel an Selbstliebe. Freud hat betont, dass der Narzisst seine Liebe vom anderen zurückzieht und auf die eigene Person richtet. Der erste Teil dieser Behauptung ist richtig, der zweite ist ein Trugschluss. Er liebt weder die anderen noch sich selbst." - Erich Fromm, Die Antwort der Liebe
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    Default Re: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Kraus' post made me think about this too, how phoniness is what's most annoying to me (in any type) and how this has had me wonder about the INFj-ESTj duality aswell. Maybe I need to meet more ESTjs, but I wouldn't trust any of those I know to any large extent.
    ESTjs have as dual-seeking and as role function, just like ENTjs. So they also prefer to and it's the sincere from INFjs that they need. So if you think that ESTjs are particularly phony, I have to conclude that those "ESTjs" are really ISTjs or ESTps.
    Or they could be any other type, like INFj. When it comes to ESTj I think it's that I have yet to discovery any kind of "depth" in these people.

    One thing I'd like to clear up: the thing about "not giving a shit" isn't quite as harsh as i may have made it sound like. My rough translation of that would be that I sort of care at the moment, but once it's done, it's done, and I don't really think about it again. I am actually not incapable of feeling.
    Actually Introverted Feeling types might be inclined to say that, yes, this shows that you are incapable of true feelings.
    Well, not necessarily. In the ENTp I can spot other ways in which feelings or commitment are manifested. And I can see how they actually have more feelings than they want to aknowledge when they try to rationalise things that can't be.

    Expat, your observations are very accurate, but when you try and describe how feelers experience something, you paint a much too harsh and rigid picture. That is harmful to us and I wish you'd stop interpet our intentions. You descriptions are often belittling. As INFj I'm often seen as both inconfident and gutless, which is far from the truth. I just don't have the need to prove myself. It would be refreshing, to say the least, if a site dedicated to the understanding of different viewpoints would indeed provide that, and not just common misconceptions made into rules.
    INFj

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    Default Re: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Expat, your observations are very accurate, but when you try and describe how feelers experience something, you paint a much too harsh and rigid picture. That is harmful to us and I wish you'd stop interpet our intentions.
    I give my interpretation. I make no claim to be infallible. If anyone disagrees, please say so.

    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    You descriptions are often belittling. As INFj I'm often seen as both inconfident and gutless, which is far from the truth. I just don't have the need to prove myself.
    In the context of the thread, when I said something about ISFjs being more confident about their principles, I did not think that that was belittling. I don't think that being "confident" about something is necessarily a good thing. One may be confident about something and still be wrong, and reluctant to being corrected. Perhaps I should have said "rigid" and "flexible".

    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    It would be refreshing, to say the least, if a site dedicated to the understanding of different viewpoints would indeed provide that, and not just common misconceptions made into rules.
    Anyone is free to post any viewpoint they wish.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Re: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    In the context of the thread, when I said something about ISFjs being more confident about their principles, I did not think that that was belittling. I don't think that being "confident" about something is necessarily a good thing. One may be confident about something and still be wrong, and reluctant to being corrected. Perhaps I should have said "rigid" and "flexible".
    But then someone would have been offended at rigid, and someone else would have been offended at flexible...in some people's mind, flexible means wishy-washy. When it comes to precision in terms, it just can't seem to happen in a large group like this.

    I'm sorry Expat, I had not quoted your post thinking people would be so... inflexible ... in their terminology.
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    People that get pissed by anything that describes them in a somewhat not especially positive (Which does not mean negative, just approximaly near the origin of the axis) just can't take any criticism light heartedly and it's only their fault, not the other persons' fault given that most things stated on this forum are opinions and not statements of truth, duh. Seems like common sense but there sure is loads of people that believe otherwise.
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    @anndelise:

    @pesto: isn't what you wrote above also "belittling" and "making misconceptions into rules" about ESTjs? My point is that it's impossible not to make "harmful" comments if we want to openly discuss the types.

    @FDG: indeed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I agree with Kraus.

    Some EXTp's do need to put more effort into knowing themselves and not being assholes/ being shallow. Something I have had to work on myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    Thanks for the replies, everyone! Maybe we could all chime in, and create accurate descriptions for all the PoLRs!

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Best example of Fi polr, from a quote of a Kraus post on another forum:


    "Anyways, I know some ESTps, and I usually get along well with most of them. For example, there's this one kid in my gym class, an ESTp. All of my friends think that he's a total jerk / asshole, but I somhow understand it all, and see right through him. When we were running the mile, he was with this other kid (who's not an estp), but they were walking it because they didn't care. So they were purposely blocking off everyone, trying to increase [the runners'] times."

    Instead of letting other people do their duty and finish their task, they prefer to selfishly do nothing and proceed blocking others in order to not to be scolded. Ridicolous!

    (By the way, I do exactly the same with the "fake politness" to strangers. I personally think that nobody can GENUINELY like somebody without knowing him/her)
    Lol, did you purposely leave out the part when he let me go through, but blocked the next few people that were in front of and behind me?
    Well yeah, I didn't think it was significant for the description.

    By the way, in reagard to what you said about morals; let's point at your example: you say that you decide to speak in class and it's part of your morals; the problem here lies in the fact that many people might be pissed by the fact that you speak a lot and they can't follow the lesson etc etc so probably types are better at making their moral corrispond to a behaviour which doesn't piss other people off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Jadae: and about the kid's movie cars, I plan on seeing it this weekend with my family
    They'll like it. Im sure you will like it, too. Over the Hedge was pretty fun as well. Bruce Will has a nice voice. Actually, both animations have a similar theme relating to all of this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    @pesto: isn't what you wrote above also "belittling" and "making misconceptions into rules" about ESTjs? My point is that it's impossible not to make "harmful" comments if we want to openly discuss the types.
    That "I have yet to discover "depth" in them"? That could mean either that they are shallow, that I've mistyped them, that I don't know them enough or not enough of them.

    Of course no version will fit everyone and it's all opinions. I appreciate (most of ) your posts because they are good descriptions of processes and I think a lot of people do so.

    What I've noticed is that some type descriptions seem less accurate than others and they seem to be from a thinker's point of view. Why else would so many hesitate between INFj/p? I think (general) you should always be careful about speculating in how others experience something. For the reasons mentioned above that goes especially for thinkers trying to guess what it's like inside a feeler's head. If there are more speculations of how feelers think than there are actual stroies from feelers it will be EDIT harder for everyone to understand us and for us to use socioncs.

    And you, Expat, write a lot and rightfully get listened to, which is why I want to ask you to think about this. As I hope you can see this isn't about the word nonconfident, it's about bigger tendencies.







    And for the record, I probably sounded more pissed than (annoyed as) I was because English is my second language. My sense of nuances is limited and that is normally what my writing is all about. Sorry about that.
    INFj

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    You actually gave me alot of insight into why my husband does many of the things he does, and you did it without putting on a facade like he would have when trying to explain the same thing. He has to maintain that he has no weaknesses



    Another extension of this, is that I'll do things that are completely inapropriate for the situation. Like I'll do things like laugh at a funeral (figuratively, not literally), wear gym shorts and a track jacket to a semi-formal event, or talk to someone in a manner that is not appropriate when taking account into their age and social class or status. Whenever I do these types of things and realize it afterwards, I do the same sort of mental self bitch-slapping.
    I've noticed the same kind of actions in my husband but he never seemed too concerned with other's reactions, in fact I usually got the impression that he did it to provoke people. He often has a "Fuck You" attitude and maybe that's why I assumed this.

    When this happens and I decide that it's not going well, I take the easiest route for me to do: distance myself dramatically
    How do you distance yourself? Do you have a large social circle? I know that's an assumption, but my question would be if you do is that out of those people do you purposely keep a large majority of them at a distance and only let a select few really get to know you, while letting the others believe that they know the real you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    I hope that answered everything!
    Yes actually that answered quite a few questions about many of the ESTp people I've had in my life. Thank you for being so open about your motives, the others weren't and often left me confused.

    But I love ESTps! You remind me of a non-penised, non-coked up version of my husband at your age
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    This entire thread strikes a bit close to home.

    So, I have a question for you Herzy: How does Fi PoLR vary between ENTps and ESTps?
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    Great post, Herzy. That explains EVERYTHING!
    INFP

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    Default Re: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood.

    I'm bumping this, to bring this back up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    One of the last major ways that the PoLR has an effect is on how I interact with people. I could use all the I want, and that creates a happy-effect on the people I talk with. However, I rarely actually feel the things that I show outwardly. One way I notice this is when my ESI mom introduces me to one of her friends, I smile until my jaw gets tired, do the hand-shaking, high voice, pleasant language, etc. It gives my mom and her friends what they're looking for me to do. However, in reality, I don't really give a shit! It's sort of a pseudo-feeling; I can trick myself into believing that I care and feel the same thing that I'm expressing about whatever I'm doing the to, but that soon passes. This often times takes place when I'm trying to be polite, during social situations and such. I go home sort of empty at times, because of all that faking.
    Her whole first post was the opposite of me, but especially this part.

    Could both ExTPs and ExTJs actually do this sort of "faking" thing? And both IxTJ and IxTP are generally against it?
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    No, I disagree - -

    To say that ENTjs and ESTjs would find more natural to use their role function than their dual-seeking goes against Gamma and Delta having as a Quadra value, in fact, invalidates the whole concept of quadras.

    There's a lot of talk about people using their role function. The role function is the second weakest function, right after the PoLR. Sure, people will be more inclined to try to use it and improve it than the PoLR, but it's not the same as saying that the role function would be preferred over the dual-seeking.

    If we go to subtypes -- an ENTj intuitive subtype would focus more on and start to resemble an ENFj. But the moment that s/he prefers over , then the border into Beta is crossed.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    The part that you said about "going home empty" was kind of surprising to me, since I've never really felt "empty" like that... quite the opposite. And I never "put on a show" or whatever. I find that sickening.

    But... I can't really see myself using Fe or Ne really too much, seems like too much energy. I don't get the whole importance of the 5th function anymore. Fi and Ni seem good enough to me.
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    Default Re: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Could both ExTPs and ExTJs actually do this sort of "faking" thing? And both IxTJ and IxTP are generally against it?
    I'm generally against it, but I sometimes do it without even thinking when I'm feeling uncomfortable in a social setting. It's sort of a defense mechanism. If I notice, I'll try to tone it down, but it's hard for me to stop entirely. I have seen my ISTj friend do it as well. She doesn't go overboard with it, though, and it doesn't seem to bother her later, since she seems to just think of it as a sort of protocol. (I don't know if other ISTjs are the same way.)

    I actually can't see ENTjs doing this at all. They seem to try to be as honest and as straightforward as possible, regardless of the social setting. The ENTjs I know are friendly and polite when meeting new people, but never fake. They use Fe, but only to express genuine interest. (At least, I have never seen otherwise.) I don't know any ESTjs well, so I can't comment on their behavior.
    NiTe | Socionix

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    I would think that it would have something to do with either subtypes, or learned behavior.

    I see ENFps regularly use EITHER Se role or Te (6th) whatever it's called.

    In order for an enfp to use Se role, they have to inhibit/suppress their base function. This is akin to forcing something aside in order to use something else.

    An enfp can also use Ti. To do so, the enfp would suppress their Fi and learn to use the Ti. This feels weird though, as if one is trying to paddle up a creek without a paddle.

    In order for an enfp to use Te whatever (6th), there is no suppression occuring, they just learn how to utilize their Te to complement their Fi.

    In essence, I think each type has certain options the individuals may or may not prefer.
    1. inhibit F1 to use F3
    2. inhibit F2 to use F4
    3. complement F1 w/ F5
    4. complement F2 with F6

    I believe that personal experiences helps a type determine which methods they'll choose.
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    What do other people think about the "social/empty/not forming bonds" attitude versus the "shows little emotion/forming strong bonds with people" attitude?

    As I've said, the latter one is definatley me, and in theory, that works... but I don't care what's just "in theory"... for example, according to the theory, ENFP would feel the same as ISTP, but I don't think it's really like that. They may be more like the first one. That's why I'm asking people.
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    I form very strong bonds with a few people (who are very important to me), but most people I have the social/empty/not forming bonds kind of relationship with.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    What do other people think about the "social/empty/not forming bonds" attitude versus the "shows little emotion/forming strong bonds with people" attitude?

    As I've said, the latter one is definatley me, and in theory, that works... but I don't care what's just "in theory"... for example, according to the theory, ENFP would feel the same as ISTP, but I don't think it's really like that. They may be more like the first one. That's why I'm asking people.
    Generally, even in a relationship, I don't feel bonded. Even though I might cry as the relationship is ending. There have been a couple of exceptions though...1 istp, 2 isfps, and 1 xxFex. For me, it's not so much a matter of emotion...as it is acceptance. If I do not feel accepted, good and bad, then I don't seem to form a bond.

    I do have a thing about keeping in touch, but it's a curiosity thing, not a bond thing.
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    @Nicky and Ann: thanks, that's along the lines of what I thought...

    ... in addition, it seems to me that IxTJs do not use Extraverted Feeling in the same way that Herzy described. Yes, I know this stuff goes against the Quadras... but so what? Personally, yeah, I do see all four IxTxs prefering (i.e. more comfortable in) using Fi>Fe.

    Anyone agree?
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    Great thread.
    I do have a lot of them, but after a while, they fade out of friendship if I haven't talked to them for a while. I don't really have an issue with this, because I don't get too attached to people in the first place.
    Interesting that so many of these "problem areas" are exactly the opposite of IEEs, who preserve connections with people across time and space and periodically warm up the in the relationship.

    On the other hand, I have no personal gripes against SLEs at all. I was forced to live with one for 4 months, and we would have very vocal arguments, but when we parted ways and ran into each other a year later, it was as if nothing bad had happened. I like them for their impulsiveness and will to make things happen... now.

    I think with SLEs and with all types in general, when a person is by himself and starts to ruminate about his problems, he tends to dwell on the weakness of his Super-ego functions. But in real-life interaction with duals and activators (especially), his attention is switched to the Super-id functions that he keeps forgetting about on his own, and the supposed Super-ego problems just sort of resolve themselves. So I think the solution to SLEs' ethical difficulties is to focus on , not . Often I see them bringing people together for eating and drinking and sharing funny stories (with lots of loud hearty laughter), and many are very generous as a way of winning people over ("buying them with "). Also, part of Beta quadra's emphasis on emotional unity (making sure everyone is emotionally involved) comes from SLE's vulnerable . By making sure everyone is emotionally involved, they can avoid situations where people might relate to them negatively (a negative feeling towards them) but not show it. They can weed these people out by looking at whether they express the group emotions or not.

    Just some thoughts...

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    Default Re: Fi PoLR - Misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by sarah
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Could both ExTPs and ExTJs actually do this sort of "faking" thing? And both IxTJ and IxTP are generally against it?
    I'm generally against it, but I sometimes do it without even thinking when I'm feeling uncomfortable in a social setting. It's sort of a defense mechanism. If I notice, I'll try to tone it down, but it's hard for me to stop entirely. I have seen my ISTj friend do it as well. She doesn't go overboard with it, though, and it doesn't seem to bother her later, since she seems to just think of it as a sort of protocol. (I don't know if other ISTjs are the same way.)

    I actually can't see ENTjs doing this at all. They seem to try to be as honest and as straightforward as possible, regardless of the social setting. The ENTjs I know are friendly and polite when meeting new people, but never fake. They use Fe, but only to express genuine interest. (At least, I have never seen otherwise.) I don't know any ESTjs well, so I can't comment on their behavior.
    I totally agree on ENTjs, where intuitive subtypes are somewhat more inclined to use .


    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    ... in addition, it seems to me that IxTJs do not use Extraverted Feeling in the same way that Herzy described. Yes, I know this stuff goes against the Quadras... but so what? Personally, yeah, I do see all four IxTxs prefering (i.e. more comfortable in) using Fi>Fe.

    Anyone agree?
    Not really - - as Sarah already pointed out, I do think ISTjs tend to prefer over . It's not obvious because they are subdued, but I think is more "natural" for them than .

    Not sure about INTjs.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Question @Herzy:

    What does mean to you?


    If you're wondering why I'm asking, it's because no one seems to understand the differences between / on this forum any more. And there's been a lot of debate over it (and it can relate to this thread...).
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    Do you think you become more competative in mode?
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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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    1) Thanks for the replies.

    2) I've been know to make some awkward (out of place) comments that make people laugh as well, don't know how type related that is.

    3) I don't know if I can use myself as an accurate representation of my type. I say this because I'm a lefty. I can relate to what a lot of peope have said about things like , , etc... and I can't really make a distinction between the two (it's weird, since the Feeling functions are much more defined- I'm the oppostie of you there). As sad as it sounds, I still don't see strong "lines" between them in myself. I blame it on being born left-handed.

    4) Hmm... competative wise, I may be more competative when I'm in my more "focused" mode. That's all I could say for now.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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