Atypical Musical ENTP?

[Steve]

I'm new to the forum but I've read a ton of the posts.

I took a few informal tests and read lots of posts in this forum and various descriptions of the ENTP and it seems like I identify with the ENTP the most, especially with how I can come up with a creative solution to just about anything. But I'm torn over a few things I've read about ENTPs in this forum, so I'll describe myself and would love some feedback on if I still fit the ENTP personality.

I am extremely musical, and have been told by friends, teachers, and professors that I have a real talent. I play both keyboard and saxophone doing Jazz and R&B, and am drawn to Smoother Jazz and R&B because of the soulful melody lines and harmonies, and the grooving light funky rhythms that go with it. Improvisation is my greatest strength because I can very quickly get the feel of where a song is going harmonically and rhythmically and can play to enhance the piece without any conscious effort. I think I've taken to improvisation because it involves intuitively grasping the tonal relationships and the grander overall flow of the song and can adjust myself to fit within that larger flow, which seems to be pretty ENTP. And of course there's the showing off aspect of improvisation. lol. But when I'm listening to music, which a lot of the time is instrumental, I'm focused less on the individual instrumentation than the overall sound and mood it creates. I even form an abstract image or concept around the overall sound of the song and almost relate it to a life experience in an abstract way. Perhaps this is ENTP.

I have an astute problem solving ability on many levels dealing with people, things and ideas. After a very short time of talking with people I can easily recommend great courses of action to take to solve the problem. Also I can relate with many different types of people and can carry on a conversation with just about anybody about anything. When it comes to mechanical objects, there is very little I can't fix. I usually can take it apart, quickly get a sense of how it works, and determine what needs to be done. I guess this is also ENTP.

One thing that sort of puts me at odds with some other ENTP's on the forum is that I'm not the most skilled at writing papers. Don't get me wrong, I'm great with words and can be very mentally quick arguing my point in a conversation, and I'd much rather talk off the top of my head, (which I can do very well and legitimately) than write a formal, structured, sequential, formal paper. To me papers seem like the antithesis of improvisation. And research papers are the worst, where everything has to be properly cited, even though much of what I say plays off of what I read but takes it in my own direction. I always have trouble structuring my papers and being able to say exactly what I want to say without using hand gestures, pictures, or informal colloquial analogies. I'd, much rather talk to somebody and show somebody informally I know something than write about it in a structured formal way and sacrifice spontaneity and originality for some professor's requirements.

Now don't confuse this with a disinterest in the humanities which is not the case. I'm fascinated by history, philosophy and psychology and love exploring and inventing new ideas and seeing them play out in the real world.

Another skill I do have great spatial orientation, which some in the forum have deemed an S trait. But I think I can very accurately imagine things in the real 3D world because of their relationships to one another, just like I intuitively grasp relationships between ideas and concepts and people. To me S seems more 2D or 1D, looking in 1 direction when they think and not taking in a greater perspective (more dimensions). I never get lost and can figure out how to get somewhere a lot of the time without a map. When I've been someplace only once, I can imagine the place accurately in my head and imagine it from many different angles and points of view, and love leading the way in showing people how to get somewhere. And I have always been more drawn to sciences like Astronomy and Physics instead of Chemistry or Biology because of the spatial intuitive aspect of the former over the sequential, memorizing of latter.

On the social side, when I meet strangers on the subway I can carry out a conversation no problem and make them feel like I know where they're coming from. But with my own friends, I feel like I can't make a deep connection with that many of them. I have plenty of friends, but I don't feel that I connect with that many of them on a deep friendship level. Many are STJ so it gets limiting sometimes. It seems like I have different friends for each of my many interests, and many of my friends have little in common with one another, personality and interest wise. If I hung with all of them together I'd feel completely engaged, like my entire color palette right in front of me. But that usually doesn't happen. But I do have one or two friends where we can just B.S. and hang over just about anything, but those are rare. Do any other of you ENTPs have the same issue, feeling like you're not completely engaged when you're with certain people? And in my college which is a business college, people are so extremely rule based, uncreative, tunnel-visioned, narrowly focused, and take things to be true just because other people say they're true without understanding why, so you can understand my frustration. (BTW accounting and statistics and number crunching bores me, can't stand it, and am not the best in doing it quickly; I'm in this school because I'm interested in seeing the big picture through management consulting in which I have a real talent). With some people, I get tired of trying to come up with all the ideas of what fun things to do or initiate conversation. But with my musical P friends it doesn't seem to be a problem, lol.

Anyway I just laid some qualities out on the table: being musical, problem solver, inventive, need to be engaged with friends. Thanks for reading my long post, lol sorry about that. I’m leaning toward ENTP, but if I could get some input that'd be great.

[reyn_til_runa]

You sound a lot like me, steve6.

I play several instruments, do especially well with improv, and spend much of my time composing. Regarding writing, I majored in English with a concentration in Creative Writing, but when it came to writing formal papers in college, I always desired to bend the rules to make the process more enjoyable. Once for a history final essay that was going to be worth the same as other final exams, I opted to turn the essay assignment into a play without consulting the prof first. I was lucky that he appreciated creativity, but there were other times I did poorly on papers due to not caring about format.

Oh, I forgot to comment on the social aspect. It's interesting that you say you feel like you can connect with strangers. I have often said the same thing. I was wondering if, for me, my ability to connect with strangers has to do with there being a greater degree of objectivity and distance (which amounts to ease of interaction). Much of the time when I feel a lack of intimacy with friends it is because I fear that they expect too much of me, and that I won't be able to follow through. My natural tendency then becomes to withdraw.

Not sure if any of that helps, but I can relate.

[Steve]

reyn_til_runa,

That's interesting. I never thought of it as an ability to connect with strangers. Maybe it is the objectivity and flexibility that interaction allows. I never thought of it that way before.

I know what you mean by wanting to withdraw sometimes. Sometimes its like you feel like you've given what you can and youd've expected more of a response.

[Rocky]

It's excrusiatingly obvious you are ENTP. Not based on what you said about yourself, but the way in which you talked about yourself.

BTW, Chemistry is by far the deepest of the sciences. I don't want to sound like an ass here, but if you see it as "memorization", then you probably just don't "get" it yet. It may take you time.

[Steve]

Rocky,

I understand what you're saying about chemistry. I was more referring to biology when it came to memorizing terms and organism parts. Chemistry is certainly deep but even within chemistry, I am more drawn to the atomic structure, the structural aspects of the chemical reations, and the physical observable nature of the reactions themselves. I was turned off by stoichiometry, and the balancing equations rules. Once I do get to understand the system of how reactions work, it starts to really take off. Don't get me wrong, I am interested in all the sciences, but with any science I need to grasp the system of how things work instead of just being told that they do, and I just found that easier to do in school with Physics and Astromony than in Biology or Chemistry, maybe it was the teachers too.

[Rocky]

I was turned off by stoichiometry, and the balancing equations rules.

Stoichiometery is neccesary for understanding the relationships of tempurature, pressure, and volume as it applies to real life problems.

Not sure what you mean by balancing- is that not straight forward? Unless of course you mean Redox reactions, in which they actually become easier once you understand the natural reversable transition states of the various ions and the processes they go through.

[Gilly]

Dude, I totally know what you mean about engaging people and feeling "limited." Does it ever feel like, between you and your friends, there's just something you're not saying? Like there's something deep and interesting that you SHOULD be talking about, but you just can't find the words? I tried to delve into it with another ENTp friend of mine, and he just thought I was fucking off my rocker. So am I just nuts, or is there something to this?

[FDG]

Dude, I totally know what you mean about engaging people and feeling "limited." Does it ever feel like, between you and your friends, there's just something you're not saying? Like there's something deep and interesting that you SHOULD be talking about, but you just can't find the words? I tried to delve into it with another ENTp friend of mine, and he just thought I was fucking off my rocker. So am I just nuts, or is there something to this?

Actually, this problem is common to ENTjs as well. But there is no doubt that steve6 is ENTp. Nobody stated that ENTps must be very good at writing structured papers, steve

[Gilly]

THANKYOUJESUSIMNOTINSANE

[Steve]

Gilligan
I think you've got something. Here's an example. When one friend of mine go out to lunch or something, usually the topic of conversation revolves around how the food establishment or restaurant we go to sustains itself: talk about the rent, price, costs, etc. While this is fine small talk I'm ready to move on really quickly. I would then bring up some general trend I've noticed like how some people at my school seem to do their work without questioning its purpose, or about some psychological idea, and my friend would have nothing to say he'd just give that "umhumm", that pretending-to understand sound, or somehow come up with refuting S-type logic that doesn't take into account the whole picture, and he'd quickly change the topic back to something where I can even predict where the conversation is going.

From reading some of your posts I think you might experience something similar. Do you ever find that there's this feeling deep down when having a conversation that's like a dammed up river itching to flow but is forced to trickle down a diverted stream?

Which makes me think, maybe what we're looking for every now and then is a conversation where we can't predict exactly where the conversation will go, an interaction that leaves us with a different deeper feeling than when we started it, a sense that a new avenue has been opened to drive on.

But yeah I definitely see what you're talking about.

[Gilly]

Yeah, because with smalltalk everything is so goddamn predictable. I want a conversation that will actually take me places, that will really make me think and challenge my mental limits, as opposed to just repeating the same old bullshit. Even if it's stimulating conversation, like debate, the outcome is still predictable. I want conversations that stretch my brain and push my limits.

[Steve]

Amen to that, and there seems to be a good amount of it in the different threads on this forum.

[Gilly]

There is, to some extent. And you're more than welcome to it, and to contribute to it, as I would beg you to do.

[detail]

If you want your conversations to evolve, i suggest you to try to make your speech clearer, more accurate and containing more facts. That way, you'll be less likely to be answered "umhumm" and instead you will have a higher chance of tickling your interlocutor's curiosity. This won't remove the repetitive part but it will actually stimulate your own curiosity and another part of your understanding. Also you should accept the fact that every conversation is repetitive in that almost everything, from conversations, to activities, to reactions is limited. There is a theoretical structure behind everything so once you see it (And you said you like to find it in your first post i think), you can't whine that everything is cyclic (In the responsability/maturity sense).

Which makes me think, maybe what we're looking for every now and then is a conversation where we can't predict exactly where the conversation will go, an interaction that leaves us with a different deeper feeling than when we started it, a sense that a new avenue has been opened to drive on.

Here i assume you refer to those intellectual masturbatory abstract conversations. These conversations are like games and it's rather normal for you to want to play sometimes. "Leisure", despite it's light connotation, is actually something not to neglect. But you seem to mix leisure (Kinda defined in this paragraph) with meaning (Bias towards one's own interests?) and applicability (Actual importance of ideas). Maybe not though. Note that i don't say these are useless conversations/ideas, as in the long run, they eventually pay, directly or not, only you can't treat them as a profit until they really are.

[Steve]

There is, to some extent. And you're more than welcome to it, and to contribute to it, as I would beg you to do.

Thanks I plan on it - I've been reading tons of interesting stuff on this forum and I finally couldn't resist.

[Ms. Kensington]

It's excrusiatingly obvious you are ENTP. Not based on what you said about yourself, but the way in which you talked about yourself.

BTW, Chemistry is by far the deepest of the sciences. I don't want to sound like an ass here, but if you see it as "memorization", then you probably just don't "get" it yet. It may take you time.

haha

[Steve]

In my original post I left out some things that may influence the type. I basically just described my strengths and general patterns, and may have sounded more crude than I really am. I may show more feeling than I originally thought.

For example, I have a really hard time killing anything, or even taking apart a chicken from the supermarket. I have a real respect for life and even have trouble killing flies. I usually try to open a window or the door and get them out that way instead of kill them. I really enjoy eating meat or fish, but only when it doesn't look like the animal.

It actually bothers me in movies and video games to see innocent people killed and hear their screams.

And I hate to see people in distress. At least 30 to 40% of the time, I do give to panhandlers on the subway or if somebody asks me for spare change. I can also be taken emotionally by certain scenes in movies especially when the situation in the movie comes together in a certain way.

I have a hard time expressing true emotions externally and will do so usually only through actions of kindness, or complementing a person and saying something that I know they'll get the sense that they are appreciated.

However my response to misfortune and showing compassion is to try to help people do something about it sometimes in a creative way, rather than to feel their emotion and feel sorry with them.

Even if I were to work with someone and they were having some personal issues, I would understand and work around them and not turn a cold shoulder. I may even advise them on how to deal with it and get through it.

I'd greatly appreciate your input on this. Do you think I'm still ENTP despite internal feeling?

[detail]

Yes.

[Rocky]

Do you think I'm still ENTP despite internal feeling?

Yes.

As an aside, I would like to point out that I think your posts have been kind of humorus in this thread so far (at least from an outsider). You remind me of something I saw on a desk once. One guy wrote a sentence (forget exactly what), but misspelt one of the words. Another guy came along, pointing it out by saying, "You spelled it wrong, dumbass." Of course, this guy also spelt "spelt" wrong by spelling it "spelled" (I believe, "spelled" would refer to something like putting a spell on someone). Ahh... I just find it amusing. Don't ask why.

Whatever the case, I'd be shocked if you didn't turn out to be ENTP.

[Sarah]

Of course, this guy also spelt "spelt" wrong by spelling it "spelled" (I believe, "spelled" would refer to something like putting a spell on someone).

"Spelt" is the British spelling and "spelled" is the American spelling. In American dictionaries, "spelled" is usually listed first, but both are correct.

[Rocky]

Of course, this guy also spelt "spelt" wrong by spelling it "spelled" (I believe, "spelled" would refer to something like putting a spell on someone).

"Spelt" is the British spelling and "spelled" is the American spelling. In American dictionaries, "spelled" is usually listed first, but both are correct.

If that's true, then it's only proof to the fact that our culture embraces illiteracy, to the point of letting our faults and mishandelings of such things acceptable.

*shrugs*