Introverted intuition Ni PoLR in ESEs-ESFjs
I have given a few examples of this but have had others state that what I was describing was not actually related to the 4th and 6th functions of ESFjs. I asked for some better examples, but haven't been given any. Can anyone describe their experiences with ESFjs?
It's really as described in the Stratieyskaya profile - - above all a difficulty to evalute the amount of time needed for doing something.
And yes,is also the "intuition of time". It's part of the trend-perceiving.
Originally Posted by implied
the Stratieyskaya profiles are way way too long to read... I'm looking for real life examples
Ok.
My mother, my ex, and one of my colleagues today, all have problems with time flow. It's not about not being late for an appointment (although my ex often was) -- anyone who can read a watch can avoid that. It's about thinking that a day has passed since something happened when actually several days have, or vice-versa. It's about thinking that a specific task they have done several times will take minutes when it actually takes almost an hour. It's about being paranoid about being on time for something important, so they arrive way too early.
My ESFJ sister has a short fuse. That's about it.
isn't Ni more about the past and future than minutes and hours?
What does this sentence mean.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
eh
Ni being the intuition of time is not as much about exact dates and times as it is about foresight. It's a wisdom about events more than it is good time management (such as being on time to appointments and making deadlines).
Um, yeah.
I can do both, so I don't know.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Exactly. Oh my god can that be annoying. My mother feels the need to tell me constantly that I have to do this, have to do that because of things that might happen if I don't do it. She has no foresight of her own. Regarding matters of prediction, she's blind and oblivious to it. She thinks that taking vitamins, taking diets and stuff like that will make her healthy. Bullshit. She never listens to her body and doesn't realize that the smallest thing she does makes a hell of a lot more difference the some stupid magazine article. It's worst when she tells me what to do. You should this, you should that, completely oblivious of the consequence of those action. I'm sometimes shocked because some things she suggests are equivalent to suicide. But it makes total sense to her that because for instance it would be good to finish engineering because there is a shortage and men right now. She doesn't realize that *right now* is not 5 fucking years from now. She'd have me commit financial suicide because she plans for the long term by current trends and expects them to stay the same. But her paranoia is the worst. She's afraid of events, possibilities. She wants to eliminate every chance of even the possibility and does so by doing stuff that is often as good as waxing your legs against an invading flood. And she does it so rigorously too. Kinda like this
EDIT: You know, that should be the official "Relying on your PoLR" example.KIEV (Reuters) - A man shouting that God would keep him safe was mauled to death by a lioness in Kiev zoo after he crept into the animal's enclosure, a zoo official said on Monday.
"The man shouted 'God will save me, if he exists', lowered himself by a rope into the enclosure, took his shoes off and went up to the lions," the official said.
"A lioness went straight for him, knocked him down and severed his carotid artery."
It appears that I'm the only one that will insist on this, but -- according to socionics.org, it is about both. And I have observed this myself.
From the ESFj
Some unforeseen matters constantly appear under the effect of the mood in Hugo, the desire to make something such constantly appears, what it did not plan. Being fascinated by some occupation, Hugo frequently ignores time factor - it he is desirable to stop time or to think that it stops at this moment, although he knows that this not so, and greatly it is nervous in regard to this. Hugo constantly experiences the desire to make more than can have time, and, as a consequence of this, a constant fear of overloads, overvoltage, fuss, nervousness and the sensation of fatigue.
Hugo it is very difficult to plan its day: the graph of its matters constantly is shifted and it uplotnyaetsya. Hugo fears the unforeseen expenditure of time. Therefore any overexpenditure of his time irritates. Hugo irritates uninvited guest, and unexpected telephone call, and neproshenyy visitor. The need for altering its work irritates, and it means, to spend on it excess time. Irritate the expectation of transport, plug on the roads, turns in the stores. (you do not envy to that, who before Hugo's nose attempts to rush by without the turn.) Hugo constantly hurries and constantly drive on others. Frequently, when it is in the unbalanced, overexcited state, for it characteristically some feverish impatience with the notes of irritation in the voice.
It is very unpleasant to observe, when Hugo, hardly after having time to arrive in guests, already begin somewhere to hurry. This greatly interfere withs contact with it - it as if drive on the masters: hurrying, it questions all news, rapidly examines all new acquisitions, then is arranged fuss around the celebratory meal, and there already and for the hours casts looks - home time! In its people irritate sluggishness, awkwardness, insufficiently fast responses, insufficiently rapid mental acuity.
Hugo irritates, when in the conversation they return to the theme, which it considers for itself depleted. It irritates, when "pour of the empty into emptier". The insufficient informativeness of conversation irritates - in it the sensation of the waste of time appears. Hugo rarely succeeds himself in selecting time for reading. Therefore representatives of this type, in essence, read in the transport, in the turns, late at night before the sleep or early in the morning before to arise. Hugo does not love the books with the slow development of subject and too detailed an account.
Hugo dreams about that time, when he is able to live without hurrying and to manage to do everything which it wants. But this desire so remains unrealizable dream. Hugo always cannot allow himself quietly to sit after the needelwork - the sensation of the irrationally utilized time constantly torments it. Therefore representatives of this type try to combine all those matters, which can be made simultaneously: if it sits and sews, then in it already simultaneously and washing is twisted, and something is cooked on the plate, and the television set it at this time watches something, on top of that and it manages to answer on the telephone. Constantly living in the regime of increased business activity, Hugo it does not manage (yes and it does not allow for itself)"to make a pause", to analyze situation, to see it in the development and to correct its plans for the future.
It is not capable to economically expend its forces. Very painfully it survives, when they criticize the inopportuneness of its actions. It does not transfer, when they charge it with the unproductive expenditure of time. It is irritated, when they limit it in the time: he so tries it to maximally rationally expend, but if this is not always obtained, then only because Hugo (as any "sensorik") on the private venture beret to itself additional responsibilities. Therefore in it some unforeseen pressing matters constantly appear.
Greatly it does not love to be late. He tries to hide its incapacity to calculate time: for example, if very strongly it is late to some measure, then frequently it prefers completely to not go. It survives, when they criticize it for the insufficient punctuality. It always is nervous, when for it it is necessary to coordinate the time: to it it is very difficult to perceive the course of time, it is difficult to calculate its expenditure (work, connected with the coordination of time to representatives of this type is clearly contrasted). Hugo without fail desires to be up to date in all news and all events, since, as has already been spoken, active civic stand distinguishes it.
The planned social and political prospects always interest it, the new constantly appearing possibility. Constantly it hopes for the changes, which will open new prospects personally for it. It expects with the aid of these changes to solve some its personal problems. Hugo - optimist, it awaits from the life of entire only best. Therefore unforeseen complications and its troubles terribly disappoint. (by Hugo they disappoint even films or books, which unexpectedly badly conclude.) It does not love skeptics, who forecast to it troubles. Even if itself senses danger, it prefers not to be advised those, who see future only in the gloomy light.
Hugo greatly tries to be foresighted and farsighted, what do he has, unfortunately, it is not always obtained. Therefore it receives any criticism in regard to this exceptionally painfully. Position radically changes, when the partner of Hugo becomes his dual. Robesp'er magnificently knows how to plan out time so that it would be created no prerequisites for the overloads and the overvoltage. Robesp'er corrects Hugo's plans, are regulated the rates of its business activity, it creates to it the regime of most optimum vital activity - condition, with which the high productivity of work is combined with the most rational expenditure of time. In the plan of forecasts, Robesp'er it is also more preferable than all other types -"intuitov", since it only, who is subconsiously disposed to the intuitive sensations of Hugo. Furthermore, his forecasts always have logical substantiation, and therefore they seem Hugo by especially convincing, since for Hugo is convincing everything, which is logical.
With the aid of Hugo's Robesp'era economizes the time, necessary for consideration and solution of important problems, since any thought, which Hugo unsuccessfully attempted to consider, to base and to understand, in the account Robesp'era immediately becomes simple, natural and accessible for the understanding. And here we approach the description of the following, "suggested" function of Hugo - to the logic of relationships.
=\ most of that is true of me.
This is in no way a suggestion that I might be ESFj.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
do you have examples from the descriptions of Ni types that say they're good at managing time?
I would like an explanation of what I italicized there, so I can be sure I fully understood it.The planned social and political prospects always interest it, the new constantly appearing possibility. Constantly it hopes for the changes, which will open new prospects personally for it. It expects with the aid of these changes to solve some its personal problems. Hugo - optimist, it awaits from the life of entire only best. Therefore unforeseen complications and its troubles terribly disappoint. (by Hugo they disappoint even films or books, which unexpectedly badly conclude.) It does not love skeptics, who forecast to it troubles. Even if itself senses danger, it prefers not to be advised those, who see future only in the gloomy light.
Hugo greatly tries to be foresighted and farsighted, what do he has, unfortunately, it is not always obtained. Therefore it receives any criticism in regard to this exceptionally painfully. Position radically changes, when the partner of Hugo becomes his dual. Robesp'er magnificently knows how to plan out time so that it would be created no prerequisites for the overloads and the overvoltage. Robesp'er corrects Hugo's plans, are regulated the rates of its business activity, it creates to it the regime of most optimum vital activity - condition, with which the high productivity of work is combined with the most rational expenditure of time. In the plan of forecasts, Robesp'er it is also more preferable than all other types -"intuitov", since it only, who is subconsiously disposed to the intuitive sensations of Hugo. Furthermore, his forecasts always have logical substantiation, and therefore they seem Hugo by especially convincing, since for Hugo is convincing everything, which is logical.
With the aid of Hugo's Robesp'era economizes the time, necessary for consideration and solution of important problems, since any thought, which Hugo unsuccessfully attempted to consider, to base and to understand, in the account Robesp'era immediately becomes simple, natural and accessible for the understanding. And here we approach the description of the following, "suggested" function of Hugo - to the logic of relationships.
Everything else there is relatively correct in my experience with ESFjs.
)ESFjs are unthreatened by the intuitive perception of INTjs. INTjs are naturally sensitive to their weaknesses, and have a way of putting things that makes sense and is non-threatening to the ESFj.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I really enjoy esfj's. They're so warm and accepting. They're flexible and fun.
although i could be prejudiced because my 8 year old daughter is esfj. we have a blast together!
Entp
ILE
weak Ni... let's see. my friend can organise time pretty well, scheduling slots for people, now that she has way too many social activities that she has to do it. i figure that's her 3rd function Te being drafted into service, to hide her weak Ni. she's not that good at anticipating how long things would take, overcompensates by overpreparing sometimes, but other times she leaves things too late. when she plans, during the plan execution she doesn't have an instinctive feel of whether things are going according to plan, faster, or late.
that's what i've noticed. she's happy to let me do the trend-spotting for her.
:wink:
that's Ne overcompensating for weak Ni
Is this an example of the Ni polr in ESFjs?
I thought i would ask you all about this. The following e-mail is from a very good friend of mine... a very very ESFj medical student(despite the endless use of exclamation marks she is not an ESFp) sent after a major exam for her. We constantly talk about her time issues and I make some suggestions but I do not think they help unfortunately. At first I thought it was a simple time mgt problem which could easily be solved but now I do not know, I am thinking it might be socionics related but maybe not. Perhaps INTjs and other types would know how to deal with this? I really want to help her get over this but so far i can think of nothing that works for her. The email is in her own words, but english is her second language, the parts in brown are my only additions. I got her permission to use it here for a while because it provides an example of how the problem usually manifests, I seriously want to know what you guys think because this problem is really bothering her:
Are these issues related toHi Xxxxx(me),
I'm so so so so upset that I did not manage my time properly at the exam and did not answer question4 at all!!! I should have done Questions1,3,4 and then 2!I'm so so so stupid. The Q4 was straightforward and the easiest one! I knew the answer and I failed to manage my time! As usual!!!! Perhaps I never learn! I'm such an idiot! I lost 25 points just because of my stupidity[we had previously discussed the strategy of anwering the more time consuming and valuable in terms of points questions before the simplier ones].
You know, even at work [she is a part time beauty therapist] i always run late with my clients unless I don't put my clock forward=> only then do I have time to prepare the bed and tidy up before the next client arrives! Also after i have finished my work most of the other therapists are gone and I am still in the room and tidying up! Why?!!!!
Wonder if I have some disorder being always late?! Do you think that I can still learn if I didn't learn for 23years? I told you that I'm lacking intelligence! At the exam I knew I was running out of time but i kind of already gave up on anwering question4. I even said to few people before the exam that I doubt I will have time to answer the questions! You see?! i already knew before the exam had started! Therefore i did not even try! I think i'll go and shoot myself in the head! I'm sorry to bother you with all this! but I really don't know what to do about it! Shall i get a gun? ha ha? Xxxxx, have a good day. I am going to get out now!
Socionics: XNFx
MBTI: INFJ
Ni types are often late and often procrastinators... choking on tests? I dunno, I don't think the stuff she wrote is type related. Could be ADD related?
i don't know if this situation has to do with Ni polr or not. don't read too much into this, but i would probably handle the situation in exactly the opposite manner; do easy questions first. particularly, if i think that i might not be able to do a particular test question, i'll often just skip it, although this depends on the nature of the question and the exam. i often wind up jumping around doing lots of different test questions in a nonsequential order.
except on my present math teacher's tests; those go more like "question 1....hmmmm.... let's go to question 2.... let's go to question 3.... hmmm... let's go to question..."
i highly doubt it
that's exactly how i'd handle it, niffweed.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
In a way I think her issues are a bit more subtle than gross lateness or procrastination. The
Why do you think she might have ADD? I remember when we did this course together she kept distracting herself (and me) from the lecture by constantly passing me little notes and expecting a reply.
Socionics: XNFx
MBTI: INFJ
i don't know if this situation has to do with Ni polr or not. don't read too much into this, but i would probably handle the situation in exactly the opposite manner; do easy questions first. particularly, if i think that i might not be able to do a particular test question, i'll often just skip it, although this depends on the nature of the question and the exam. i often wind up jumping around doing lots of different test questions in a nonsequential order.
except on my present math teacher's tests; those go more like "question 1....hmmmm.... let's go to question 2.... let's go to question 3.... hmmm... let's go to question..."
i highly doubt itSo you guys would do the easy ones first, o.k. This might be risky for her. i have these visions of her spending her time on the easier question with perhaps less points and failing the whole exam badly. i will ask her what she thinks about this strategy though.
Socionics: XNFx
MBTI: INFJ
That's a very good way of putting it.The
I dunno, it came to mind because many people with ADD have problems with choking on tests (though this was never an issue for me) and time management. Some people with ADD can focus on boring stuff if they're very motivated to, but not indefinitely. And many people with ADD would actually be able to take in more of a lecture if they were doing something else at the same time... that's actually one of the methods taught to ADD kids (they may doodle or chew gum during a class to help them absorb more of what's going on and be less prone to getting in trouble). But I don't *think* she's ADD, just thought I'd mention the possibility. There's actually not enough information there for anyone to determine if the girl has ADD, niffweed included.I don't know much about ADD; she seems to be able to concentrate well if required and she is certainly far more dedicated to applying herself to boring tasks than most people.
Why do you think she might have ADD? I remember when we did this course together she kept distracting herself (and me) from the lecture by constantly passing me little notes and expecting a reply.
well, sure; she might have ADD, but there's certainly nothing here to suggest that.
yeah, the point is to knock out what is easiest first, then if the really difficult questions pose a real challenge, you have a lot of time left over to finish those and you haven't lost any points due to stalling on the hard ones. the easy ones are already answered (this is assuming all the questions on the test are weighted equally, although i think you just stated that they weren't.)i don't know if this situation has to do with Ni polr or not. don't read too much into this, but i would probably handle the situation in exactly the opposite manner; do easy questions first. particularly, if i think that i might not be able to do a particular test question, i'll often just skip it, although this depends on the nature of the question and the exam. i often wind up jumping around doing lots of different test questions in a nonsequential order.
except on my present math teacher's tests; those go more like "question 1....hmmmm.... let's go to question 2.... let's go to question 3.... hmmm... let's go to question..."
i highly doubt itSo you guys would do the easy ones first, o.k. This might be risky for her. i have these visions of her spending her time on the easier question with perhaps less points and failing the whole exam badly. i will ask her what she thinks about this strategy though.
yet i swear i thought everyone did this.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
I tend not to skip around because first of all, I usually finish tests well within the alloted period anyways, and secondly because I would think it would be easier to end up missing questions accidentally if you tend to skip around.
as i said, it depends on the test. if i believe i can give a good answer to all of the test questions, i'll just do them in the order presented. if it's a stupid test like a regents or something i'll just do them in any order since time is not an issue. more difficult tests i start jumping around.
i think that has happened once on one question in my lifetime, out of some 200-400 total tests.I would think it would be easier to end up missing questions accidentally if you tend to skip around.
Tell her to grow up.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
What I see in the quote is:
* An obsession with using time well
* A tendency to put excessive and contradictory demands on oneself (tidying up and then berating oneself for staying late)
* Possible misdiagnosis of one's problem (she seems to think she's chronically late, but as you point out, she's actually pretty punctual)
* Possibly some sort of fear of tests
* A tendency for over-dramatization (but maybe it's just a matter of catharsis, saying stuff to get it out of her system)
To determine if any of that is related to Ni PoLR, we need to understand clearly how PoLR works; many people simply assume PoLR implies weakness, but I think it's more than that.
A lot of this could be related to seeking validation and support from someone with strong Ti. I suspect that some ESEs like to dramatize their troubles with things like tests and other such things, which simultaneously shows they value Ti and that they're looking for help in certain areas.
I've know an ESFj who argued with his ex wife because she was always late and made them late and he HATES being late. There have been times when he's told me that he wants to be done with something by a certain time but then we end up leaving half an hour late because he stood around talking with people when there wasn't time to chat. When we work together jobs seem to take longer than they do when he does it himself, but it's because he talks so much. If this were not the case, we'd get done much more quickly than when he works by himself. He doesn't seem to understand what's happening though. Sometimes it seems like he thinks I'm the reason we don't finish up on time, but I don't know if he actually thinks that because he tends to say things he doesn't mean (or more often not say but make obvious with his tone and expressions and whatnot) when things aren't going right.
So yeah, he's very concerned with timeliness but not reliably good at managing time.
I've also heard that this is true with Ne types, and have observed as much, so this may simply be more prevalent among Nx types in general but for different reasons.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Re: Is this an example of the Ni polr in ESFjs?
This is related toI thought i would ask you all about this. The following e-mail is from a very good friend of mine... a very very ESFj medical student(despite the endless use of exclamation marks she is not an ESFp
Are these issues related toHi Xxxxx(me),
I'm so so so so upset that I did not manage my time properly at the exam and did not answer question4 at all!!! I should have done Questions1,3,4 and then 2!I'm so so so stupid. The Q4 was straightforward and the easiest one! I knew the answer and I failed to manage my time! As usual!!!! Perhaps I never learn! I'm such an idiot! I lost 25 points just because of my stupidity[we had previously discussed the strategy of anwering the more time consuming and valuable in terms of points questions before the simplier ones].
You know, even at work [she is a part time beauty therapist] i always run late with my clients unless I don't put my clock forward=> only then do I have time to prepare the bed and tidy up before the next client arrives! Also after i have finished my work most of the other therapists are gone and I am still in the room and tidying up! Why?!!!!
Wonder if I have some disorder being always late?! Do you think that I can still learn if I didn't learn for 23years? I told you that I'm lacking intelligence! At the exam I knew I was running out of time but i kind of already gave up on anwering question4. I even said to few people before the exam that I doubt I will have time to answer the questions! You see?! i already knew before the exam had started! Therefore i did not even try! I think i'll go and shoot myself in the head! I'm sorry to bother you with all this! but I really don't know what to do about it! Shall i get a gun? ha ha? Xxxxx, have a good day. I am going to get out now!- over the longer-term implications -
That's what I meant with giving priority to
Precisely.
And because Megan's friend does seem to realize what is happening, and is worried about improving on it and does see it as a problem, to me it seems like it's more a
Now I don't want to get into the discussion on her type -- I'm just saying that she seems to handle
If she is indeed ESFj, then strong ethical subtype -- she also seems to be in taciturn-negativist mode in that mail.
I have a few RL examples of Ni PoLR.
My ESFj sister has gotten into the habit of not wearing a seatbelt. I think it's unwise, so I've started to nag her about it. Perhaps she finds it uncomfortable (Si) or bothersome, but acknowledging the long-term odds is something she definitely doesn't want to think about.
"the stereotypical ESXj who needs a schedule or time-plan for everything."
Uncannily, an ESTj teacher has told me she used to plan everything out beforehand, but then stopped because it wasn't worth it. Obviously it was: she's horribly disorganized.
Funny you should mention that. The ESTj I was with and I would argue about this. I told him that he should wear a seatbelt because he had a family now and it was irresponsible not to. He'd get irritated and say, "I'm not going to get into an accident." I'd say, "How do you know?" and he'd get even more irritated and say, "I'm not wearing a seatbelt. I'm not going to get into an accident. Just stop." Then I'd say, "There are a lot of really bad drivers on the road. You can't control what they'll do. Even a perfect driver could still get into an accident. There's no way you can know that you won't get into an accident." Then he'd get even more pissed off, and once again tell me he wouldn't get into an accident. Then I'd say, "I didn't know that people who get into accidents knew it would happen beforehand," and we'd get into a huge fight. He'd start in about things I did that seemed irresponsible to him and we'd go back and forth.
My ESFj boss wears a seatbelt though. I don't know if he always does or not.
Funny you should mention that. The ESTj I was with and I would argue about this. I told him that he should wear a seatbelt because he had a family now and it was irresponsible not to. He'd get irritated and say, "I'm not going to get into an accident." I'd say, "How do you know?" and he'd get even more irritated and say, "I'm not wearing a seatbelt. I'm not going to get into an accident. Just stop." Then I'd say, "There are a lot of really bad drivers on the road. You can't control what they'll do. Even a perfect driver could still get into an accident. There's no way you can know that you won't get into an accident." Then he'd get even more pissed off, and once again tell me he wouldn't get into an accident. Then I'd say, "I didn't know that people who get into accidents knew it would happen beforehand," and we'd get into a huge fight. He'd start in about things I did that seemed irresponsible to him and we'd go back and forth.
.
i have the same argument with patrick except im the one that gets pissed off
SEE Unknown Subtype
6w7 sx/so
[21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
[21:29] hitta: and not dying
.
I will never wear a seatbelt.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
What? Why? I've always had the habit of wearing a seatbelt and remind others to do the same. I've noticed that some SEIs and other types prefer to not wear a seatbelt, but this may or may not be type related.
This relates back to when I was in an accident in the front passenger seat where if I hadn't worn a seat belt, my head would of smashed the windshield. I've heard accidents where people have flown out of the windshield and died instantly on impact.
Well, I tend to live off procrastination, it's almost as if my mind can only work on assigned tasks if it is in a moment of danger. However, when it comes to self-assigned tasks, I can perform them immediately and can focus on it for hours on end. The strange thing I've noticed when completing assignments is that I'm capable of finishing things right on the last second, which is why I can procrasinate so well. I think this is related to myI've also heard that this is true with Ne types, and have observed as much, so this may simply be more prevalent among Nx types in general but for different reasons.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
