So how does one get an INTJ? .
So how does one get an INTJ? .
Last edited by Kim; 09-09-2015 at 04:04 AM.
Alright, ENTp here.
This is classic INTj behavior. They do this, but as PTL says, they're easily manipulated emotionally. I don't think that they realize how hard other people try to please them. The person that tries the hardest to get their attention they consider a "best friend". Little do they realize how much this exhausts the person because its difficult to get an INTj to be expressive without a conscious Fe.
Now the one I have been pursuing has got a boyfriend, she is afraid to dump the guy since he is ESTp. He controls her. She keeps saying "in june, wait" and then "you're being too pushy". Now im an ENTp, so yes, perhaps I am being pushy, but she has got a nice butt. How can I resist?!
Usually if I mention something she doesn't want to talk about she changes the subject. This routine has gone on for two months now, I am running out of steam. Us extraverts expend alot of energy, if we don't get a recharge we start getting mad.
But keep this in mind- they like someone to feel happy around, not someone that is constantly exerting force on them. They want to get something out of the relationship, they dont want something that costs them.
I dated another INTj for a long time. It was a loving relationship but there was alot of tension because it seems as though they like an inner harmony but have trouble expressing exactly what it is they want. I think they have alot of expecations, but i am not sure.
If you push an INTj they wont resist, you hear me? like, they'll just go out the room. sorta like when you serve a volleyball. It just goes over the net. If nothing pushes it back to the other side it just lays there.
From my experiences INTj's love someone to stimulate their creative function since they usually deprive it alot in school and so forth. Ne is something they have alot of fun with. My guess is that you lay out a piece of paper and start drawing something. I have done it before, its fun.
Usually what I do is I draw the framework of a building.I make it like a maze, all sorts of tunnels and weird chambers and stuff. After this you ask the INTj to make stuff happening in the room. After they draw all the stuff you can psychoanalyze it when they leave.
now while this is happening lean on his back or something, sorta playfully. take it one move at a time. As much as you know you want to just jump their bones, they are timid about it all unless they know they have nothing to fear.
But really, you're ENFp, you sure you want this?
There's nothing much that I can add here as Pedro and Waddles have said a lot.
But, I can tell you from personal experience, that INTjs are... well.. easy to influence emotionally. They seem to like proactive and expressive women.
You really care for this guy, don't you? If you do, I suggest patience. I don't think it is a good idea to 'force' him to open up before he's comfortable with it. Give it time.
Some INTJs are emotionally volatile babies. Make sure your new bf is not.
If you want to get him to open up to you, just pretend he already has. It will make him feel like he is not obligated to act a certain way, thus he will feel more comfortable and open up automatically very shortly.
well I won't be the first to betray the brotherhood , in case i burn in hell for this i will have at least one other to pass the time with, so here goes:
they are all right above, we are extremely attracted to flamboyant, outgoing, overflowing extraverted NFs and NTs! They can manipulate us :-/
If you wish to stop, yes, expect all relations to be cut once and for all.
And yes, all this about needing more time is a lame excuse, there are little things we appreciate more than directedness and str8forward dealings with people which you have already done and coupled with the charm of you ENFPs (i haven't really known up close and in person any ENTP yet) things will prob move forward real soon
Also that part about staging things in such a way that he won't need to feel that he will have to respond or behave in some typically set way is very true, it seems most INTJs dislike stating the obvious, especially when its about expressing emotions.
Great and interesting topic here! I once had a relationship with... an INTJ (i guess he is.... He made other personality tests and the psychologist said he likes going his own ways, he does not like team work, , he is very open minded, kinda agressiv though and likes talking about any sort of things and being cultured, his speech pattern is typically INTJ : long sentences with tons of complicated words, and he likes reading a lot but not fiction... Well, INTJ, i guess). But he opened up quite quickly to me.. I don't know, if it is because he really cared for me... But as you said, he suddenly cut off, when, i guess, i hurt him because (still guessing since he never really told me) i might not realised how much he cared for me and i was not sure of the relationship at first, i was not clear if i really liked him and more or just liked him like a friend... Does it make sense to you INTJ? How do you deal with a girl you cut off that way? Do you still feel something special for her for a while?
What do you mean with anti-signals? Could you give me some example of anti-signals?
Sorry for my english, i am european!
On the other hand, i read something about INTJs on the web somewhere and they were saying that INTJs are able to invest a lot of time in a relationship... I don't know if this only occurs when they really care about the person... But i guess that an extraverted girl/guy can bring them to that point, they invest a lot of time in the relationship but this does not mean they really deeply like her/him... Or do they refuse any invest of time with people they don't really deeply, deeply care about. I just ask this becauseOriginally Posted by ENFP_wants_INTJAnd well... Is invest of time a sign of deep interest to the person they spend time with ?they're easily manipulated emotionally
I am sorry ENFP_wants_INTJ i hope i don't disturb your topic there but just ask as a complement.. and i hope my questions help you too... :wink:
Uh, I know I'm opening a can of worms and begging to get my sorry arse kicked by saying this but...
How sure are you that you are an INTJ and how do you know this?
I see nothing that resembles an INTJ and plenty that resembles an ENTJ of the intuitive type. If you compare our ways of talking, they are similar in many ways and you resemble even more a very dear friend of mine who is an ENTJ but happens to have an extremely powerful super-ego.
I read about a hundred of your posts and could easily point out a huge amount of details to support the thought but I don't want to seem overbearing with such a suggestion.
It's just... I myself thought I was INTJ for about 10 years. The extreme introversion a controlling super-ego caused me was very misleading. I've been a whole lot happier after I was released from the super-egos control.
So ... If you're sure you're INTJ it's fine by me but I just had to suggest this for the off chance that it might help you make a miraculous discovery.
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
A sharing relationship basically ...
I came across this thread while I was looking through information on INTJ's since I happen to be one and thought that maybe you could use a few words of advice on the persective of an INTJ from an INTJ. When I broke up with my last girlfriend it did hurt, but I focused so much more on how my girlfriend was feeling that I avoided my own pain, as if making sure that she felt allowed me to forget what I felt.
Second, we (INTJ's) aren't loners by choice. Since most people veiw us as cold we highly value someone who will not judge us. But finding someone who will not do that is hard, hence the lack of companionship. So your INTJ probably not trying to shut you out, but he is probably having a hard time letting down his guard. But the Introverted Thinking that characterizes us drives to see our lack of companionship and feel it far more deeply than we will ever show. If you show him more and more that you will not judge him he will open up to you more. Furthermore, you sound like a very intelligent person, among other things, and that is something that we prize highly in a companion because our insatiable cognitism is such a big part of us that we crave intellectual companionship almost as much as we do air. I doubt there is anyone else out there that he see's as more valuable (in a fully-rounded sense of the word) than you, so he is probably not going to just walk away.
Thirdly, we do genuinly seek autonomy. For me it is because my mother died when I was two and my father was an extreme hands off parent so I am used to being autonomous, although we prefer the word independent. The way to reassure this lad is to make sure that being in a close relationship with him will not destroy his autonomy. Make sure that your mutual involvement complements his autonomy and activities instead of constricts them. Because when someone tries to constrict our space we sometime misunderstand that as them judging us. He may not be able to do the exact same things as he was before, but make sure he can still do similar things, ideally with you instead of apart from any of your mutual activities.
Finally, as some of the other people on here have stated we do have a weakness toward personal displays of affection, not that we would ordinarily admit it. And our weakness is in conjunction with how much those displays of affection seem to utilize knowledge of us. For example, if you make us our favorite dish, give us a massage in the places we are chronically sore in, or doing something nice simply because you know we like it we respond more openly because that tells us that you are taking more of a personal interest in us. So do things that make him realize that you understand and appreciate him and he will have to realize your value. And he will sooner or later (hopefully sooner) realize that those things make him lucky to have you. Because deep down we know that not many people are going take the time to know us fully or more importantly try to, so those few who do are very precious.
Well, I hope this helps. Idon't know what else to say and I don't like to blather on, except when I can't help it, so good luck with your man. And just remember you are the luckiest thing that has happened to him in his whole life. Your job is simply to make sure he realizes that. The rest is up to him, and can only be decided by him. We are naturally stubborn, but even we will eventually yield to that which our heart desires.
Well me in a nutshell?Originally Posted by another ENFP
It´s difficult to be an INTJ.
Wonder why and if I have to be an INTJ or how to do the best of it.
I'm glad that I've been able to be of use.
Now one thing about us is that we usually like to be honest with people. We don't like to lie, but if you are unsure then your man is probably simply not telling you everything he may think or be feeling. He may not be hiding it, but he may simply not think that it is necessary to elaborate on it adequately when you ask him. So here is my advice. Get him relaxed, get him to come out of his shell, and then ask him how he sees you. Once you get him to come out of his shell then you can get him to tell you exactly what you need to know, And when you ask do not doubt yourself or even him. This is important because by choosing to be with you he obviously has a high opinion of you and he probably assumes that you should be able to see the wonderful things about you that he can. I, for one, have such a high confidence in myself and others that I have a hard time understanding why others do not as well.I will say, however, that sometimes I'm very unsure about how he sees me
Always keep this in mind when considering an INTJ - we are typically driven people. Out of curiosities sake what is his job or area of study? Now the thing about being driven is that we are so devoted to what we study or do and to improving our talents that we seem somewhat eccentric to other people. We value what we do highly, and sadly most other people do not. We are willing to respect other people's passions because it is rational to do so. But few people value the devotion with which we pursue our dreams. Often people will either not put any value in what we like or they will simply make it plain that they wish we were something else. It's not something that we enjoy seeing or feeling, but that is how we are treated most of our lives. And after a lifetime of such treatment, wouldn't even you become at least somewhat suspicious of other people's intentions?It is just so hard to understand that such an interesting and lovely person could be so suspicious of peoples' views of him
That look of happiness is what he is capable of on a regular basis. It is in those moments that he most acutely realized he is loved. And like any creature of habit, he can be drawn to show it more often. Either show the value you put in him more often or once you have drawn him out subtley yet relaxingly keep showing him how much you value him. Now you are probably aware that we do not usually shower verbal love and praises on those we love. We usually assume that once we have told someone how we feel that they should know that unless we say otherwise we still feel the same way. Now that is a shortcoming on our part since it it's not very fair on the other person. But we do at least give other ques besides verbal ones. For us the proof of feeling is not in the words, but the eyes and the smile that we give when we see someone we love. Our eyes and smile are evidence of the passion that lies just below.I will never forget the look of absolute surprise (and happiness) on his face when I blurted out just how wonderful I think he is...He has let down his guard in occasions, but always retreated into a shell for a little bit.
On behalf of all INTJ's, thank you for the complement of brilliance. It brings a smile to my face because we usually just see ourselves as competant :wink: . We have high standards to match our drive. So remember that because we often apply those standards to others, we have a base premise that everyone is just as capable as we are. That means that he views you as just as capable if not more so than himself. You have met his standards that he applies to himself and you have probably exceeded them in his eyes. So he talks about you? That is a very good sign. We do not usually talk about other people, since in our rational way we do not consider it reasonable to talk about someone who does not mean a great deal to us. If he is talking about you and your profession, then he values it just as highly as the profession or hobbies he is devoted to.First of all, thank you. His intelligence and eloquence have intrigued me from the very beginning and I was happy to see that he sees in me someone who can also stimulate him intellectually. We are in entirely different fields and it's been great to learn more about his trade and vice versa (from what I hear). His mental capabilities are amazing, but I really have yet to meet an INTJ who is not brilliant...
Well, yes we are individuals, so this may not be true for him, but I like physical contact. It's a way of reinforcing mental and intellectual closeness. Now if you want to find out how comfortable with it he thinks he is then ask him. Be polite, but not hesitant or vague, and do not be blunt either. Make the impression that you are asking in order to try to get to know him and his needs better. Then he probably won't mind being perfectly honest. When we think someone is actually listening we talk. Now I like physical contact, but that may be because I am used to it. He may not be. And you'll know if you ask. Just don't ask how many girlfriends he has had. Then he might think you are trying to compare him with some other guy. Anyway, if he is simply not used to physical contact then acclimate him gently. Make him get used to it, until he does not even realize he is. Then you can expect him to initiate it himself on a regular basis. Because like mental attention, physical attention is a basic human need.Just how comfortable are you with physicality? Like touching? I'm not the most touchy feely person, necessarily, but I do touch people when I talk to them. He does hug me, but I'm not sure just how close I can get without him feeling uncomfortable. I do realize that you are still individuals, of course, so this might very well be a meaningless question. I will ask it anyway...
I have and friend who seems quite like an INTJ, and his wife has some insecurities about herself. She asked him on time why he married her when he could have had someone who in her eyes would be prettier or more intelligent or more talented and so on. He told that he picked her, among other things, because she never judged him like other girls did and she had guts. Those are the two main things that will set you apart from other ladies. If you do not judge and you have guts.I think I will write this sentence on my mirror to remind me when my ENFP insecurities set in and I ask myself why such a great guy would be interested in little me...Thank you for the inspiration!
Well I hope I haven't bored you since it is rather long, but good luck anyway. I hope it is of use. Just remember, he has confidence in you, so you certainly should have confidence in yourself. Don't just think or believe it...live it. Good luck again.
I haven't posted on this forum for a few months now, but I couldn't resist your amusing topic and dilemna. I've dated one ENFp and it ended up being a very painful relationship for both me, and her. Quickly told, I ended up dating her best friend who was an ISFp for 3 1/2 years after her. She also cheated on me, and me on her after I found out about her indiscretion, and it left me with some serious trust issues that took the following relationship of 3 years to overcome, and I'm sure some on her part as well.
So, I would think twice about dating an INTj, here's why...
Functional Ordering of an INTj is...
Ti - Conscious (Area of Confidence)
Ne - Conscious (Area of Creativity)
Fi - Conscious (Area of Insecurity)
Se - Conscious (Area of Weakness)
Functional ordering of an ENFp is....
Ne - Conscious (Area of Confidence)
Fi - Conscious (Area of Creativity)
Se - Conscious (Area of Insecurity)
Ti - Conscious (Area of Weakness)
Ok, so an INTj's strongest area is his Ti or theoretical logic. He is a master of reasoning and logic.
For the ENFp, their weakest function is theoretical logic. They are very weak in this area, and the INTj, much like a drill instructor, feels the need to strenghten this point, because it can be, and because for an INTj, you either willingly accept their logic (which the ENFp will not do), or challenge it with strong logic and reasoning of your own. However, because the ENFp does not LIKE to have this function targeted for improvement nor do they want to blindly accept the INTj's logic, they resist, making poorly reasoned arguments to defend their position, convincing the INTj moreso of his need to "improve" this personality weakness. It is then that the ENFp will attempt to turn the tables on the INTj to balance out the perceived uneveness of the relationship. They do this through emotional manipulation of themselves, becoming moody making it impossible for the INTj to emotionally read the ENFp. This does not have the desired effect (which is to try and bring the INTj into their emotional world), but rather it results in the INTj questioning the ENFp's reasons for being in their crappy and seemingly unjustified mood. Now the ENFp is back at square one, having to LOGICALLY explain to the INTj why they feel the way they do. Of course, the INTj will question their reasons at every turn, frustrating the ENFp because they can't give the real reason for their mood, and once again, putting the INTj back in the driver's seat as logic drill instructor. This will repeat itself over and over again, until one of the two leaves the relationship.
It should be added that friendships here are possible. The reason for this is that the INTj does not have as much of an investment in the person, and therefore they are less inclined to feel the need to "strengthen" (read CHANGE) the person into something more suitable by their standards. INTjs and ENFps can relate quite well through their intuition which is usually where the good times lie.
Lastly, it is important to realize that INTjs are not good at knowing how they feel about people, whereas ENFps are (although their feelings change frequently). INTjs have trouble knowing if they are in love with someone, often mistaking obsession or intense physical attraction for the real thing. Their emotional confessions should be taken with a healthy amount of skepticism, as they do not understand them very well. Perfect example of this...I told the ENFp woman that I dated that I loved her 2 hours AFTER I found out she cheated on me. That was simply my own inability to tell the difference between intense jelousy and love, but at the time it was an intense emotion, so by my estimation, it must have been love. Tread carefully here...
Hey ENFP you can pm me anytime, I don't mind. It's nice to have someone to talk to about personality stuff. And I'm curious too. I'd like to be able to understand ENFP's better. I was considering minoring in PSYCH in college before I went for an Social Science for the undergrad part so I'm interested in people.
I can totally relate to SFVB since I went through something like that too. About a year ago I was in a relationship with someone who acted like an ENFP except that they because they didn't get along with some other people they got ddepressed from time to time. The two things I hated about that relationship was that the person would try to play, you know, mind games like trying to make me guess at stuff or simply assuming I should know it. And I'm just not that good at alot of those games and I don't like the ones I do get because I think rationally. So she would keep playing those games and then getting mad because I refused to play back. The other thing was because she would get depressed somewhat I would have to keep encouraging her and dealing with her pessimism. And I don't mind encouraging someone, but with her it never stuck; so it happened over and over and over again. And I just got sick of all of it and so for that and a couple of other things I broke up with her several months ago. And I don't think I could do that again because I just hate people who don't make sense. I am a simple enough man. I like things to be simple or uncomplicated. When they are it can get to be a hassle.Oh well, that's life . I guess you can't have everything.
Sorry to join these threads all very late but there's so much good stuff here!
Just a bit more insight into INTJs and emotions.
I'm an INTJ who opens up to people emotionally under the following circumstances:
- I'm under very severe emotional stress. I'll blab all to the first vaguely appropriate person I come across (reverting to shadow ESFx?)
- I sense another INTx. There's some people, usually quite intense quiet types that other people regard as bland or aloof, that I'll instantly feel comfortable with. As only slightly I, I tend to take adopt an E stance.
- I'm looking for advice. Normally I'd find someone I trust who's very different (I have a pet ESTP for reality checks!).
- Someone has opened up to me to an equal or greater extent. Regardless of type, I trust them and it can be a great release to talk to them.
As I'm just post break-up, a few thoughts on what happens when it ends for INTJ. The great frustration for me has been my INTP ex's inability to articulate why things happened the way she did, and how she felt. I would dearly love to forgive her and, once I'm not feeling so lonely (PTL is right, INTJs need to feel included to be happy) I would happily rehabilitate our friendship. But I can't *forgive*, because I don't *understand*. So, chances are that without more input from her we will never speak again.
I think in this case it's the P/J split that's the problem. The thought process behind the fact that she is not with me, and is with someone else, I can rationally understand. But understanding her decision making, her behaviour towards me at the end of our relationship, the process of change in her feelings, the speed with which she moved on... it ended all wrongly, and for me that's the hardest bit.I would have thought that INTJs would be more successful in understanding an INTP's behavior...
Well, well, welcome JC. The more the merrier. Hey ENFP, how often do you get to see the INTJ? Is it a regular thing, because if it is you have grounds to ask him out. INTJ's like it when a girl asks them out. Not that they want them to do it all the time, but most girls wait forthe guy to ask them out, so when a girl has the guts to ask the guy out we like it. Now we have no big compunction about asking the girl out, but but we don't want to have to do it all the time because then it seems unfair. Being independent as we are, what we want in a relationship is an equal partner. And if there is a girl that is willing to ask us out, then that's a que for us that here maybe someone who wants to be our equal. And thanks for that clarification ENFP because sometimes I have to wonder about that, but that's just me being rational :wink:.
Now a stray thought just ocurred to me, why would you be insecure?
Even INTJ's can be insecure at times, but that is because we have high standards for ourselves. Our unusual confidence is based mainly on a few simple maxims. 1. We do not have to meet other people's expectations or standards. They and their opinions do not define us. We define ourselves because we choose to. So it doesn't matter what someone else thinks about us (All though we can still take advice for the sake of self-improvement). 2. We are not good at everything, but we can be good at whatever we do because we are willing to try until we succeed. And if there is something we do not know, we know we can learn because we choose to.
Basically it's willpower. The will to overcome any challenge and to become better. That's all it is. We have allot of willpower and we know it. We are not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but we are always willing to become better than we were before or now. Anyway, that was off the subject.
Guest, it's nice to see that you've noticed that about us. We are capable of opening up a great deal, but we are too cautious to do so unless are sure we can trust them. If they open up to us that tells us they trust us, so we can trust them. Usually if an INTJ does have a perverbial mask on even in personal interactions its not because they consciously choose to, but because it become habit. For example, when I was a boy, I had a very bad temper and a loud voice. I almost got kicked out of school for it. But one day I decided that I must master my temper or it would master me. I think I was about 11 or so. So I put a perverbial mask on whenever I was angry and I learned to moderate my voice. And then years later I started using it to cover up other emotions because certain people took advantage of them.JC,
- Someone has opened up to me to an equal or greater extent. Regardless of type, I trust them and it can be a great release to talk to them.
That's interesting. I see that in both INTJs I know well. They started opening up after I had poured out my life to them and made it very clear that I basically trust them with my life.
Now Guest, perhaps the reason we do not understand an INTP's behaviour is because even we do reserve a certain amount of emotion for personal relationships. It's not that we don't have any it's just down deep. So even we are used to the concept of there being emotion in a relationship. But even we are not used to the INTP's seeming complete lack of emotion in relations. We use logic and emotion in a relation, although logic is more dominant,so someone who uses only logic in a relationship is as alien as someone who uses only emotion. And our logic is tempered logic, so it's not the same as theirs. What's your take on that Guest?
Well, it's alot better for me today. I still have the mask, but I don't have to use it very much. Although there are a few people that I still have to use it around because they do annoying stuff, and they've told me they do it specifically to annoy me. But for the most part, everyone's more mature, so I don't have to worry. People know me and like me just fine, so I can be myself around them. At least if I have enough energy to be myself.Quote:
So I put a perverbial mask on whenever I was angry and I learned to moderate my voice. And then years later I started using it to cover up other emotions because certain people took advantage of them.
How is that today? Do you still cover them up or do you show emotions?
Wow, that's a liberated attitude if I have ever heard one. I wish I heard it more often. But at the porocial university I go to there aren't many broadminded women. Anyway, that's a great attitude. It has spunk any INTJ should be able to respect.No worries, I do all the asking out. I have really been the initiator in this, partly because he is not one to take the initiative and also because I really don't want to wait around for a guy to ask me out whe I can just do it. Life's too short for dating rituals.
Now are you saying in the second part of the post that basically part of your identity as "you" is based on other people? Interesting. An INTJ's sense of self usually has nothing or little to do with other people. Now, why I wonder, did your personality form that way? Was it something from your childhood? I can't help asking, my minor was Psychology so I'm naturally curious.
Now even though you may use other people's opinions to assess yourself, but just remember, your opinion of yourself is always more important than someone elses opinion of you (unless of course you think you're immortal or something :wink: ).
Goof, that's so INTJ it's unreal: acute self-consciousness leads to awareness of interpersonal problem. INTJ synthesises relevant information, formulates action plan and then makes it happen.I almost got kicked out of school for it. But one day I decided that I must master my temper or it would master me. I think I was about 11 or so. So I put a perverbial mask on whenever I was angry and I learned to moderate my voice. And then years later I started using it to cover up other emotions because certain people took advantage of them.
I did the same, at 18/19, except it was about learning to recognise when someone was winding me up and not taking the bait (a social cue we're inclined to miss). It's still a conscious effort not to bite someone's head off and spit it out in response to good-natured teasing, but I am much better (at 21) than I was.
OK - back to thread topic. Romance and INTJs, a few simple rules.
- Reasonability and directness are key
- Taking the initiative massively increases your chances of success
- We're not being aloof. We're synthesizing! Give us a minute and we'll be back with you.
- Our emotional state stands at the last time we articulated it, so don't worry (if we're synthesizing, and don't seem to be all there).
- At the same time (this is where it gets tricky), we can be very sensitive to every non-verbal cue given off by a mate. If we pick you up on them, it's not insecurity, you just really confused us!
- If we're verbalizing emotions frequently, it may be a means of asking a question/seeking confirmation from you about your emotional state.
- (This one may be just me, any comments?) Physical closeness is great, but I'm going for a walk. Nothing personal, but it might be that half an hour's entirely private time keeps 'That Loving Feeling' going.
- There's nothing better than feeling included, part of the gang. Introduce us to your friends!
- If it's not right, let us know, tell us why. We have a great capacity to work on making things OK again and our energy and commitment in this may surprise you.
- Don't be offended if it takes a long time before you learn everything about our past, particularly previous partners. Don't be surprised that if there's something about a previous relationship that's relevant to this one, you learn about it at quite an early stage.
- End it in the right way and we'll be just fine. Just don't expect a drawn-out breakup full of maybes and don't knows. Even if you're doing it, we may be the one to eventually draw the line in the sand.
- It's often more Adieu than Au Revoir - be prepared that you might never speak to us again. Nothing personal, it's just that if we have closure, what's the point? If we share an environment, we may shut you out entirely until we're over you and then revert to normal standards of civility.
What do others think? Amendments? Additions? Disagreements, am I putting too much of me and not enough INTj into this?
Should we do something with it that MBTI types are using our forum for a dating purpose? At least as I can see we have no information wheather or not these INTJs and ENFPs are really Socionics INTjs and ENFps.
Do Intj's believe in love at first sight or the idea of soul mates?
If an Intj meets someone and they're totally smitten over the person, will they ask the person out or let the moment pass and never think about the person again?
If they let the moment pass, will they think about the person or forget about the person and move on to the next person quickly?
I'm just wondering......
Male21 - is that genuinely an issue?! I've been lurking for quite some time and I don't think my posts are that out of tune with the rest of the forum.
Ireland - Thank you! In response to your question, I just don't know. I find the idea of soul mates quite irrational and discomforting, but that might just be personal experience. I have no problem asking people out if I like them, because I approach it as a rational 'challenge'. It's likely to be quite direct and unimaginative, and bitter experience has taught me to make my meaning clear.
But is that INTJ, or just me?
Good one, JC! I totally agree with you. Especially the part about reading non-verbal cues. When my partner doesn't comment on the situation, I always ask. If he doesn't answer, I always assume the worst possible. And I find signs that support my theory, even if he thought of something absolutely different.Originally Posted by JC_INTj
A funny situation: my partner came home from work and was exceptionally quiet. It seemed like he had something bad to tell me. We went to have a cigarette and I decided to wait until he wants to tell me himself. For a few minutes he said nothing (I thought: wow, it must be really bad.) Then he cautiously started, "Honey, I have been thinking... I want you to understand my decision." (Hey! I haven't seen any signs that he's unhappy with the relationship!) "I don't think I will change my mind." (OK, that's really unexpected! I will just hear him out first.) "I... don't want us to..." (Damn, I was right. I will try not to make a big deal out of it. Maybe we can still be good friends afterwards.) "I really don't want to see The fifth Element tonight!!" (WHAT?!) As it turned out, he really was talking about a bloody movie all along. I told him what I had thought and we had a great laugh.
And I would like to add, that with INTJs, you should answer his/her questions whenever possible. I absolutely hated it when my ex often left them unanswered. I actually forgot I had ever asked, so I annoyed him by asking the same question 3-5 times during one week, or until he gave me some kind of solid answer. ("Maybe" doesn't count. At least not without the explanation.) And it's absolutely necessary when it's a question about emotions. If we have trouble reading you from non-verbal cues, you should never keep us guessing.
Additionally, I asked my partner if there is anything to add to the list. His response was: "An INTJ always needs to be left a way to bow out gracefully from an argument.". After I demanded an explanation, he elaborated: "It is extremely unwise to crush an INTJ with your facts, deductions and analysis in an argument. Much wiser course is to let her reconsider her position, agree with you or revise her facts and come to a new conclusion. This way, she can save face without losing self-esteem." In any case, I hope that doesn't mean he's taking it easy on me in arguments... :wink:
(PS! I made him write his quotes himself. I couldn't have translated them. Too many big words! )
One disagreement though - I don't have much trouble talking about my past and experiences. But that you have probably already noticed. My past is important to explain myself. This way my partner will understand me better and we can avoid a lot of misunderstanding.
Firstly, it is said to others ,not for others, am I correct?
Secondly, I appologize! If this is your issue , I have nothing further to say- continue your dialog.
Firdly, concider the thing what Hugo said on that you will not be happy in given relationship. There is no need to answer me as I have no interest in your dialog and I will probably not explore it further.
Have a nice day!
JC, great words on INTJs back on page four. I've been on a family vacation for the last week or so, so I'm just catching back up. You basically said it as well as it could be said.
Ireland, here's another INTJ's slant on love at first sight and soul mates. Love at first sight is great, I've felt it before. But you have to be able to notice more about the person than just looks otherwise, it might just be a physical attraction. Say for example, I would notice what kind of clothes the female is wearing, if she has glasses (which are not a bad thing because they signal a possible like for reading), how she carries herself (i.e. does she appear confident and friendly), how she has her hair, and so on. A person can draw a definite liking from that first impression, but it would be a rather tenuous love considering how little you may be able to draw about who the person is. However soul mates is a concept we have some trouble with. We do believe that there are people that are compatible in every way, but we don't believe that there is only that one person out there for everyone. With so many people in the world, how could we find one person when we don't even know who that person is? It seems like a situation that is set up to end in failure. But what we do believe in is that there are people out there who could be soulmates, but there is more than one possible person out there who could be a soulmate.
Hugo, interesting stuff on type relationships. I never saw that site on the web.
Kristiina, hi and thanks for the post. It's good to see a female INTJ and one that doesn't mind breaking INTJ stereotypes.
I agree with what you said about talking about the past. As an INTJ the only reservation I have about it is in certain situations. Like for example, when it comes to past relationships I usually don't mind talking about them, but then I also have the point of view that I don't need to know about the other persons relationships since when I am in a relationship the only relationship that matters to me is the one I am in, that's what's important.
Don't be so surprised now. Think about it this way. There are millions of INTJ's out there. Don't you think there could be some of us who are different in certain ways than one set description. For example, couldn't your friend be an INTJ who only a borderline Introvert. I flip-flop between being an I and an E sometimes because I'm borderline. And Hugo and Pedro don't care for love at first sight but there are INTJ's willing to give it a shot. Just remember, we INTJ's have drive, and that makes us adaptable. When I was young I saw I was rather shy, so I learned to be outgoing when I can. For me it's like a lightbulb. The happier I am the more outgoing I get. When I'm with my family or coworkers you would never guess I wasn't straight extroverted because I'm having fun all the time then.ENFP_wants_INTJ
I looked up the INTJ's dual out of curiosity and was amazed to see that the INTJ friend I have (not the guy I'm interested in) has an ESFJ partner. It is a great relationship, but this INTJ is more proactive than most. Under normal circumstances it seems awfully difficult for these two types to get together considering how careful and slow INTJs are and how impatient ESFJs are.
Well, Hugo that personality match thing sounds interesting because I've never really given it serious thought. So what would be an INTJ's match, an ENTJ?
This topic is quite intersting, despite the fact that I have never been involved in a romantic relationship! I know very little about socionics theory-but I am going to make an effort to do so-so I won't be giving any opinions. Could someone give me a link to info' on socionics theory? An aside: If an INTJ wanted an older ENFP woman married to an ISTP and with a child, what would the likelihood be off that INTJ getting that ENFP? On the whole. How does an INTJ romance an ENFP? Is that even possible. A question to the ENFP who wants the INTJ: Why? Why an INTJ? Why him? Hasn't his supervisory role begun to affect you? Look at how desperately you try to lay seige to his heart, despite the fact that, for all you know, the gates may already be open? Maybe he thinks to himself: "Let's see how equal this relationship is. Maybe I am investing to much. Maybe I am only a passing amusement for her. Let's find out." And so, he waits, watches, for the grand light gesture that will say, "We are equals."
Sapere aude, Dare to think...
Why is it that instead of encouraging we seem to do exactly the opposite when it comes to people pursuing an uncommon relationship? (not everyone obviously)
And another thing, I think most I's have a hard time opening up in general. If you are willing to cope, be patient, and understand the differences amongst you and your partner (or soon to be) then most, if not all relations, should be able to unfold into something special and fantastic.
Reach for the stars!
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
I think, from what you have said, that he adores you. Why? No INTJ wastes time with someone they don't like. An INTJ looks for someone they can invest huge anounts of time in without feeling that the cost is outweighing the benefit. So there is really no need to feel insecure. You said somewhere that he at times wrote several emails to you in a day. That's a big sign. In his mind he say's, "I've just thought of something and I know just the person I can share it with!" Grand light gesture? No idea! Buy him a card! "This is just to say:...." Don't gush! Don't splatter the card with tears! Something unexpected and understated. INTJs are like Englishmen, even when it comes to humour: they prefer the indirect, the understated, the light, not the American in-your-face thing. At times, there is a tendency to be more French, darker, more morbid, but most times, they are very English. A kiss on the cheek is better than a kiss on the mouth, in public at least. Why? There is a certain romance, a certain innocence about this dark old prophet. So, having realised, and I hope you have realised, that there is nothing to worry about, deal with those insecurities, enough to not start clinging desperately to him, which will simply confirm what dangerous things emotions can be. I don't mean become the next iron lady though! Don't take him for granted, remember to always maintain a mutual relationship of give and take, and allow him his space, sprinkle that with a little sincere flattery, always understated-INTJs dislike being worshipped, at least I do-and, voila! The bait is set, the deer is caught. In any case, as I said, the gates are already open, suprise him, show him you are not one of those traditional girls who wait and wait and wait for the man to lay claim to his prize-a prize he probably never knew he had, or if he did, wasn't quite sure it was completely his. Again, no gushing!
Sapere aude, Dare to think...
Incidentally, what kind of poetry do ENFPs like and how different is it from the kind INTJs like. Maybe you could both explore some poetry. Yes, I know, it sounds terribly bourgeois!
Sapere aude, Dare to think...
Good words Guiseppe. It sounds like you like peotry. Have you read Poe's early works from before his wife died? They are quite humorous. Another dimension to that INTJ humor is that it can be the kind of dry sarcastic humor that can be easily understood as being said seriously unless you know the person. Thats one thing allot of other types have a hard time understanding. One of my girlfriends had the hardest time understanding my humor when I was using the dry kind because she could not tell whether I was serious most of the time. All my friends and family get me when I'm using it but I guess she was just analyzing too much. Well we have been discussing this thread for awhile, so I'd like to just say something to keep things in perspective. Keep the relationship simple in your head ENFP. While it's fine to do complicated things on the outside, don't analyze too much or you'll psych yourself out too much by the time another opportunity for interaction comes along. Relax and accept what comes. Here's a sample of the flurtiveness that an INTJ might like. If he wonders what you are doing for the evening tell him that you were thinking of going to such and such restaurant, but it depends on if a certain __guy's name__ wanted to go with you. It is a question, but it also has a wistfull tone to, and that can be enticing, especially with an equally beguiling smile to back it up. Oh and thanks ENFP on those words about sexist dating rituals. Alot of us guys thought they pandered to women since they basically made the guys do everything. Where's the equality in that? Anyway, good luck ENFP. You deserve it.
I know INTj's don't usually flirt, so what could u look for if they were attempting to? If they liked you, how would you be able to tell?
If an INTj hangs around with you alot, fails to pick up hints and does not make any moves, he or she is flirting with you.
getting you to keep talking
yeah, thats right, but i do flirt alot if i got into the comfort zone with the girl i like.Originally Posted by rmcnew
oh by the wya, rmcnew are u intj? this girl is asking for intj's advice.
No, but that is the way I have seen INTjs behave around people they are interested in.
I see, this intj pretty much ignores everyone, or acknowledges them when they make a good point, but he mocks everything I say. I just thought it weird that he took the time to listen to everything I say, whether mocking me or not. Maybe that's a good thing?
According what I have read INTjs do not flirt, in the traditional way. This was true for me, but because of problems I am now attempt to flirt in a more traditional sense.
I generally don't talk to people unless a) I know them b) I need something from them c) I like them. So I agree with what is being said here, INTjs "flirt" simply by talking to people they like. But, as a male INTj this never works because I always get labeled as a friend, not as a romantic interest. Being a strategist I am starting to adopt some new strategies and flirt in a way more recognizable to my interests.
Mocking what you say is probably an attempt at flirting, if it can be called that. But INTjs who spend all thier time mocking you will turn out to be even bigger jerks than you thought. I know, I used to be one, i've grown up now.
ask him by puting "i like me" "i dont like you" on the paper, and ask him to circle one of them. dont ask him directly he will be too shy to answer.Originally Posted by Guest
Now that makes the INTJ look like some kind of mental retard.Originally Posted by Fry
ask him by puting "i like me" "i dont like you" on the paper, and ask him to circle one of them. dont ask him directly he will be too shy to answer.[/quote]