le SLE
le SLE
I have Louis CK typed as Se-SLE sp/sx 7w6.
His sp/sx instinct stacking is easily mistaken for Delta values. Common conversation topics for sp/sx people revolve around rather physical and personal topics: food, comfort/discomfort, health/sickness, physical sensations, the practical concerns and the routines of everyday life, family, sex and relationships. But same is true of sp/sx Se/Ni valuing types as well, as sp/sx stacking is equally spread among Beta and Gamma types. Thus you have Betas and Gammas who superficially sound like Deltas.
At a closer look, quite a few of Louis C.K.'s quotes actually doesn't jive well with a SLI or LSE typing, including negativism, suspicious nature, subordination by force, and preoccupation with respect ascribed to Beta STs.
"I grew up in Boston, and in Boston, people just beat the shit out of each other for no reason. They just beat the shit out of each other. But I kinda think you need that to keep quality control 'cause in places where it doesn't have it, they are too free." — Louis CK.
"I just don’t trust any of it. Every time I read something about how there’s been another ridiculous climb of the Dow Jones, there’s a part of me that goes, “This can’t be good.” None of this is real money. You know what I mean? It’s not like there’s actually more of anything. It’s just ideas. When people are getting richer and richer but they’re not actually producing anything, it can’t end well." — Louis CK. (negativist, Te-devaluing)
"If you do something and people think you’re stupid, just go for crazy. You get more respect that way because nobody likes stupid people." — Louis CK.
(Stratievskaya's SLE profile - "Unthinkable for Zhukov situation is where he is taken for a dupe; this is more than a blow to the ego – it's the collapse of his whole program. Often there is an impression that he is obsesses with the whole notion of "respect - disrespect.")
"It’s like when you’re talking to a girl at a bar because you’re attracted to her, the first thing you say is always gonna be dog shit. The most honest thing you could say to her is ‘I wanna fuck your face.’ That’s the most honest thing you could say." — Louis CK.
A man will cut your arm off and throw it in a river, but he’ll leave you as a human being intact. He won’t fuck with who you are. Women are non-violent, but they will shit inside of your heart. — Louis CK.
I killed my Facebook page years ago because time clicking around is just dead time. Your brain isn’t resting and it isn’t doing. — Louis CK.
Bill Gates has 90 billion dollars … If I had 90 billion dollars, I wouldn’t have it for long because I would just dream of all the crazy stuff I could do with it. This guy, 90 billion dollars. He could buy every baseball team and make them all wear dresses and still have 88 billion dollars. — Louis CK.
There’s nowhere I won’t go. As long as it’s horribly, horribly true and/or wrong. — Louis CK.
He even V.I.'s as a SLE:
Last edited by silke; 12-10-2014 at 08:42 AM. Reason: updated pics
i always thought SLI. not because i don't find him funny or anything, because i do. i'm sort of surprised at all the SLE typings.
And here's an example of his Fi-PoLR/Fi-devaluing in his stand-up comedy. He has more moments like this one, but this Fi-PoLR bit was one of the more blatant hard-to-miss ones.
LCK: "I know that it's (ethically/morally) wrong [to kill and eat animals], but I don't care that it's wrong."
Last edited by silke; 07-21-2020 at 08:15 PM. Reason: updated video
I initially thought he was ILE from first impression and it makes the most sense to me, but it's interesting to see the varied typings on him, the only consensus seems to be that he is logical and most likely irrational. Perhaps his stage persona may make it more difficult to type him, but going off his interviews might be a better read on his type.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Haven't you heard? She is a humanist.Originally Posted by Galen
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
well it's not a super-strong opinion, but i just see his humor being sensual, unpretentious, Si-ish: a focus on day-to-day "shit happens" stuff, along with how he talks about sex & bodily functions (raunchy Si humor). also he's a bit of an apathetic crank (Fe polr? lol)
i just don't really see the Se - where does he show that he is a person who naturally mobilizes & empowers people, who is competitive, etc? and where is the Beta dramatic flair? etc.
I would attribute that to his sp/sx instinct stacking. Sp/sx people will commonly talk about casual day-to-day matters as well as topics pertaining to feelings, sexuality, relationships (sx being their 'creative' secondary instinct), and that is irrespective of their quadra assignments. Sp/sx is described as one of the most grounded and also one of the most regressive stackings perhaps because it chooses pays attention to the very basic, common denominators of living experience, which is a lot of what Louis' comedy is about.
The way he openly discusses the most private aspects of his family life on stage, and does so with an almost grotesque exhibitionism, was mentioned as a trait of sp/sx on enneagram forums (this was written by a posted who types as sp/sx himself):
After I've delved into enneagram types and instincts in some more depth, I've noticed that many traits that socionics attributes to Si, in enneagram get attributed to self-preservation instinct, to the point that the two are virtually indistinguishable. Though after witnessing gammas and betas concern with typical Si matters, it seems like it is socionics Si that has been mis-identified:Sp/sx also has an inverted narcissism (perhaps distorted exhibitionism is more accurate). There's an impulse to open the raincoat and reveal cancerous lesions covering the torso and genitalia. Festering wounds with a stench. It sometimes seems to be a challenge issued around deep, deep bonding: This is me; How real are you willing to be? Psychic nudity/revelation that, in itself, threatens the sp/sx with self-destruction....or at least social self-destruction, which is part of the distilling process toward the one-to-one uber-bond. There's an element of all that with sx in general but sp/sx, in this mode, prefers it truly organically grotesque, leaving a stain and a scar that's hard to interpret.
Self-preservation instinct responds to practical concerns of everyday life. SP types express concern centering around issues of security, food and health, employment, sustainability. In relationships, sp-first people focus on nesting, domesticity, building a cozy home with someone, or may fantasize about such scenarios.
...
The SP energy manifests as "conserved", "grounded", "tightly coiled", "planted", "immovable". The energy is usually heavy in its nature, as if the person is attempting to function while carrying some great weight on his or her shoulders and conserving energy for later personal use.
...
Topics SP types might talk about: food, dining out, dieting, nutrition, health, fitness, appearance and looks, money, savings and sales, shopping, employment, benefits, insurance, comfort, clothing, decor, interior design, strength, vitality, sickness, death, noise, discomfort, safety, security, environment, quality or durability of objects such as car, clothing, furniture
That's his instinct stacking manifesting once again. Sp/sx generally has a grounding, dulling effect:
- sp/sx - dulling, calming, quieting, grounding, descending, lowering, dampening, numbing, desensitizing, exhausting, deadening, extinguishing, making still (link)
Looking at Agee's latest thread in Beta quadra titled "Fuck IEIs" it sounds like he is the one who needs empowerment and mobilization lol. Imo those are just vague, faulty stereotypes that are not suitable for typing - SLEs aren't omnipotent energizer bunnies and Beta quadra isn't the drama queen central. Looking at what's happening on this forum, there has been quite a bit of drama spurred by members of Serious quadra (the Maritsa discussions for example).
What I was asking was, what makes your statement different from Fi base?
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
@siuntal
being a likely sp-primary myself, that is helpful information regarding sp-instinct, but none of it actually explains why Louis CK is Se ego? it's just "explaining away" his Si-seeming traits by using enneagram, which by itself isn't a convincing argument as to his supposed SLE-ness.
not that i expect you to explain why you see him as Se ego if you don't want to, because i'm not that hugely invested in arguing Louis' type. as i said, it's not a super-strong opinion of mine that he is Delta ST. i only gave my impressions because you asked.
please don't exaggerate my comments, because it misrepresents what i said. as i type myself the dual of SLE (specifically the more subdued SLE-Ti) i know i probably wouldn't fare that well with an "omnipotent energizer bunny" (which sounds more like Ej temperament anyway) though i know i appreciate a decisive voice to help spur me into action. also myself and many Betas i know are not drama queens.Looking at Agee's latest thread in Beta quadra titled "Fuck IEIs" it sounds like he is the one who needs empowerment and mobilization lol. Imo those are just vague, faulty stereotypes that are not suitable for typing - SLEs aren't omnipotent energizer bunnies and Beta quadra isn't the drama queen central.
"dramatic flair" = referring to common manifestations of Fe+Se valuing: poking for reactions to drawn you in, testing limits and stirring the pot, purposefully "infecting" others with emotion, having a penchant for trendy eye-catching style, taking action at the opportune moment, "putting on a show", etc.
stereotypes are based on the truth, though of course there is danger in overapplying them. regardless i don't believe what i said about SLE/Beta are "faulty stereotypes" at all - those are known, characteristic traits of that quadra and type. so if there is someone who does not exhibit them to some extent (such as Louis CK, in my view), i may have a hard time typing them as such. though i admit the possibility of being wrong here.
Just tell her that every type is capable of experiencing (1d) the liking/disliking of things, and that every Fe creative has Fi demonstrative (4d).
Last edited by anndelise; 08-15-2012 at 04:37 PM.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Yes, at what Glam said... he just doesn't give off the SLE vibe.. I have a hard time saying he is ILE as well but that just seems wayyy more plausible.
I act way more outgoing than I am when I'm work, it's when I'm "on"... His seems to be that way as well, an act, a show, he's a comedian. SLI sounds decent, though I'm
still leaning towards LSE for him..
Ode to Beta sexuality (and how it comes across to Deltas):
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Louis C.K. Reloaded
Let's give it a fresh start. @siuntal @glam @Park @anyone
Default
Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
think we've had this discussion before... still gotta disagreesiuntal: Louis CK is ST but his Fi-PoLR is rather glaring in his performances, for example his skits on letting loose lions in shopping malls and allowing them to maraud fat people, and just letting kids die from nut allergies as a way of getting rid of the allergy problem. This kind of throwing people off the deep end and letting them fend for themselves in hostile environment is attributed to SLEs. Promotion of such attitudes directly contradicts SLI's +Fi hidden agenda not to mention Delta Si.
IEEs take to this to very poorly as I've witnessed of my an IEE friend and her SLE ex-husband. This kind of insensitivity about him that she couldn't 'correct' in any way with her ethical objections simply drove her nuts! She must have confused her SLE for a SLI for a long time, admiring his Fi-PoLR directness and brashness - that was all the way until one day she couldn't bear it any longer and filed for a divorce. It's the same kind of Fi-blindness that is present in Louis CK's repertoire.
There are parts of his comedy that can be interpreted as Si, but as I have pointed out before in another discussion these may very well be due to his sp/sx instinct stacking, specifically his self-preservation instinct which is attributed all of the same properties as Si. Park of course will be able to relate to him on this basis, since their instinct stacking are exactly the same - sp/sx.
This act where Louis CK talks about letting lions feed on people who are fat and unfit is just http://www.thatvideosite.com/v/5303/...tion-and-lions
Last edited by Kim; 09-23-2013 at 12:13 AM.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I think SLI, but most definitely delta ST. I don't see SLE humor in the least.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I think he's Te base. His sense of humour is almost identical to mine. LSE > LIE.
You might be confusing Fi suggestive for Fi PoLR. An important thing to point out is that his criticisms of people are often things he catches himself doing, like using his phone too much and complaining about the lack of WiFi on aeroplanes, which he then turns into a rant that seems to be directed towards others and not himself. In this sense, he's critiquing his own behaviour.
Loius CK saying howI think SLI, but most definitely delta ST. I don't see SLE humor in the least.
- it would be great to set lions loose to hunt down fat and dumb people at the malls
- how we should allow people die from allergies as a way of ridding of allergy problem
- that people beating each other is good - else they'll be too free!
- that he is going to rape Hiitler and has him on his "rape list"
... is Delta humor now? That's an attempt at turning the quadra values upside down just to peg him down a type that doesn't fit him.
His manner of provoking and instigating narratives are much more typical of Se valuing ExTs types - SLEs and LIEs (what Narc says about Louis CK's humor being similar to his) and not anywhere near where Delta STs would like to progress.
Last edited by silke; 01-25-2016 at 04:45 AM.
I don't know how Delta humour is(I'd like to though), but he does seem Delta. Well it's tricky cos he's unique for any Quadra lol. If he's SLE or LSE he's definitely Creative subtype or something. And I don't see SLI.
Last edited by nigh; 09-23-2013 at 04:41 AM. Reason: amnesia
observant, insightful, self-degrading, fucked up
aw man, he's great.
I remember at one point I thought he was ILE, but that was a really horrible typing on my part. Although, I've never met an LSE like him before, it's the only type that seems to fit.
I think finding measures to deal with dumb people is perfectly in tune with delta st humor. He is referring to the "fat person eating a burger" as someone we could be, not a member of a group he mocks (it's also just one example - the lion idea is not to eliminate unworthy people, but to keep us on our toes - very different). He also consistently makes fun of himself being fat, so it's not a way of humor that brings down other people; it's, like @blackburry said, self-deprecating. I don't think I have ever been truly offended by something he says. There is always a very personal and somewhat humble quality to it (as in he does not belittle except himself). But then I haven't watched everything by him.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I can see LSE, but I still favor SLI (he certainly VIs SLI).
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
i think "offensive" humor can be characteristic of many types tbh. using "offensive" behavior to eliminate a Delta typing is probably not enough when taking other things into consideration. also i don't think all Deltas would necessarily find Louis CK to be offensive (Kim said she isn't offended by him, and my IEE mother isn't either)
as other people have mentioned in this thread, Louis CK is a very self-deprecating guy. he's actually a relatively humble and down-to-earth sort of character. his humor is often centered around his own status as an everyman, regular kind of guy.
in contrast, SLEs are characterized by things like bravado, dominance (whether professionally, socially, sexually, etc.), attention to status and image at some level - things that Louis CK could give a fuck all about (even just looking at a photo of him will be indicative of this.)
compare Louis CK to a go-getter SLE such as Alec Baldwin for example.
his subjects of humor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_C.K.
Te + Si + Fi hereEveryday life, Self-deprecation, Pessimism, Marriage, Sexuality, Old age, Economic materialism
Where have I said that "offensive humor" is representative of any quadra? That's a misrepresentation of my argument - in fact, I don't consider his comedy to be "offensive". What I have pointed out is that a good deal of his stand-up is based on humor that is shocking, startling, and refreshingly random, and that the pieces about throwing people off the deep end have been fully described in SLE profiles, while not being mentioned in anywhere of Delta STs, since such attitudes would directly contradict Si as the valued element of Delta quadra.i think "offensive" humor can be characteristic of many types tbh. using "offensive" behavior to eliminate a Delta typing is probably not enough when taking other things into consideration. also i don't think all Deltas would necessarily find Louis CK to be offensive (Kim said she isn't offended by him, and my IEE mother isn't either
Self-deprecation isn't specific to any type - SLE duals, IEIs, have been known to rely on it. Furthermore, socionics descriptions of SLIs mention very different traits, so I'm not sure how exactly you and Kim are arriving at the SLI typing, since even the socionics profiles are stating something completely different from what you're describing of Louis CK:
Descriptions aside, the SLIs that I have known in real life were not in a habit of putting themselves down - unless they were depressed or had a mood or personality disorder - quite to the contrary, they experienced most trouble admitting when they were wrong, as the profiles detail.SLI-Si: Somewhat stiff in dialogue, may be laconic, but tries to be good-natured if he feels tensions arise in interaction. Prefers items that are original and of good quality yet simple and unpretentious. Pays attention to his health, appearance, and figure, tries to dress tastefully. Aesthete, enjoys handcrafted items. His movements and gestured tend to be gracefully lazy, fluid, and at the same time confident and exact. His gait is a little lax, elastic. He dislikes hurrying, but at the same time he is not slow. Seems somewhat proud and haughty.
SLI-Te: He keeps at a certain distance from people, closed off, at times overly direct and inconsiderate in conversation. Very independent and proud, acts as he wishes. In conversation he is often waspish and ironic, but becomes amiable and concerned if he feels sympathy and respect for his conversation partner. Noticing that he has offended someone, regrets it and softens in communication, tries to turn everything into a joke, or may even apologize or try to calm the person down.
SLI profile by Gulenko: Stubborn and uncompromising in that which he considers to be correct. Though he is distrustful of new ideas, after testing them in practice is able to extract benefit from them. Independent. Proud, even haughty, needs a sensitive approach, praise and attention. Inclined towards skepticism. Poorly sees the future evolution of events. Concerned about making timely choices in life, yet feels dependent on the vicissitudes of fate.
And anyone who has watched enough of Louis' performances would also notice that he has a typical SLE approach to power and control, briefly summarized by this quote:
I grew up in Boston, and in Boston, people just beat the shit out of each other for no reason. They just beat the shit out of each other. But I kinda think you need that to keep quality control 'cause in places where it doesn't have it, they are too free. — Louis CK.
We've been over this before and I pointed out that SLEs don't always fit the stereotypical socionics mold of 'conquistadors' and supermen, and that their personalities are usually more complex and variable than such stereotypes with plenty of outliers, which I have noticed after interacting with several of them.
This debate is rather interesting because during the past few weeks I've witnessed a similar debate on russian socionics forums where several people have tried to bump a SLE sp/sx 9w8 out of Beta quadra using exactly the same kind of argumentation as was presented here - that SLEs are all about dominance and status, while this guy didn't represent anything of the kind. His instincts and ennegram stacked up such that he is rather laid back and somewhat self-deprecating - type 9 is called the "peacemaker" of the enneagram and sp/sx is the most regressive and grounded stacking [mentioned here]. He held his ground on the basis that he's dated several IEIs and was in a LTR with one, and that he was certain that they are his duals. What was interesting in that debate is that members of that forum were completely discounting any alternative influences on his personality in favor of socionics ones. It didn't occur to them that a self-preservation "peacemaker" SLE e9 isn't going to be the "Commander", the "General", or the "go-getter" stereotype painted in the typical socionics profiles. Such consideration required a deeper and broader insight into personality typology that most members of that forum were willing to consider, since they have been hyper-focusing on socionics for years and years and couldn't imagine that there was anything else beyond that could supersede it, which is same to what's been happening on this forum.
Visual aids.
Dane Cook (SLE)
vs
Louie CK (LSE)
Visual aids.
Dane Cook (SLE)
vs
Louie CK (LSE)
I really like Louie better. Does anyone like Dane Cook better?
I'm already luling at William with Louis.
Logical, Si/Ne, extroverted... I like LSE for C.K.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
That's exactly what he's doing.
As someone who's watched enough of his performances, I offer the following examples to summarize Louis C.K.'s approach to power and control.
Last edited by Park; 09-23-2013 at 04:22 PM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
On a somewhat related note, Louis C.K.'s best friend (from what I gather) is IEE comedy genius Chris Rock.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
yes, i agree with SLI Te subtype. I'm basically married to Louis C. K., but with blonde hair, blue eyes! LOL I have always typed my hubby as SLI, Te subtype as well.
Cat fight.
I think Louis C.K is a introvert, his standup and tv show is personal, often focused on his anxiety in various situations and other things.
I think he's Si valuing, and probably Si base as his major collaborations and work has been with people like Conan Obrien, Chris Rock, David Letterman, Dana Carvey.
I did think that it is possible that he's introvert after watching the video below some time ago. The way he interacts with Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and Ricky Gervais. What do you guys think?
...and then this suddenly got me more curious about Ricky Gervais' type.I thought he's Gamma.
Okay, now I gotta go and bump on the old Ricky Gervais thread.
As if extratims don't have those things?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Yeah, @Kim finds my jokes (and me, in general) much more offensive.i think "offensive" humor can be characteristic of many types tbh. using "offensive" behavior to eliminate a Delta typing is probably not enough when taking other things into consideration. also i don't think all Deltas would necessarily find Louis CK to be offensive (Kim said she isn't offended by him, and my IEE mother isn't either
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Only when I haven't slept enough.
I still don't quite see why LCK would be an extravert.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
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