Makeup or no Makeup?

[Chiquichiquaquiles]

I expect them to know what they want lol

I ain't about to say shit on that

[sbbds]

I probably started experimenting with makeup (simple things like fruity lip gloss) when I was 13 years old or so. I feel like I’ve experimented with so many different things, yet now I see makeup guru type people on YouTube with 1000 different products and steps to their routines and I just feel completely incompetent. I feel like this culture has changed a lot because of social media like Instagram and YouTube teaching people how to “glow up” and transform into something different completely.

I think if a man loves you then he prefers, or at the very least, likes you at least as much without any makeup on. Can you honestly say “meh I prefer them with makeup on” about anyone you love? Not in a plastic/objective beauty or evil capitalistic way but subjectively. Maybe the girl version would be like overall preferring the guy using the money/status/opportunities made by himself instead of just using his family’s, or something like that, because it’s a better representation of who they really are. In every instance where it’s come up, guys have told me they prefer me without makeup. In instances where my boyfriend has been the one to experiment with light makeup, unless it was for a special occasion like drag I’ve felt extremely weird about it and just didn’t like it.

I also think the higher the man’s Si, the more he can generally tell how much makeup you’re wearing.

[End]

I look alright without makeup. No major skin issues so no need for foundation. My facial features are fairly prominent so I do minimal contouring. I use it to add color to my face. My makeup skills are quite amateurish.

I would say my face is above average...not near the top but enough so that random strangers will comment on it in public. Makeup just amps up my face. I have had some women express insecurity when I choose to wear it so I get self-conscious whether or not I wear it.

Then you too are blessed with neoteny I'd wager. Wish I lacked major skin issues though because I do have one. If I don't treat it regularly my forehead makes David Icke look like he's got a legitimate point about reptilians being a thing. Other than that though, if I keep myself clean shaven and deal with the gray hairs I have I can easily pass for a High School Student even though I'm 30+ years old.

Since you sound like a girl I'd give this advice. Makeup on the first date, then slowly "forget" parts of it as time went on. By the fourth or fifth in your mind you just forget it entirely. See if he notices. If he doesn't, he's probably fallen hard for you. A man in love will see even 5-6 HB's as 10's. Personality matters, be significantly nicer than the HB 10 bitchy supermodel to him and you'll see just how wrong those crazy Karen's were/are about "Toxic Masculinity" and how we only care about looks...

[SGF]

I probably started experimenting with makeup (simple things like fruity lip gloss) when I was 13 years old or so. I feel like I’ve experimented with so many different things, yet now I see makeup guru type people on YouTube with 1000 different products and steps to their routines and I just feel completely incompetent. I feel like this culture has changed a lot because of social media like Instagram and YouTube teaching people how to “glow up” and transform into something different completely.

I think if a man loves you then he prefers, or at the very least, likes you at least as much without any makeup on. Can you honestly say “meh I prefer them with makeup on” about anyone you love? Not in a plastic/objective beauty or evil capitalistic way but subjectively. Maybe the girl version would be like overall preferring the guy using the money/status/opportunities made by himself instead of just using his family’s, or something like that, because it’s a better representation of who they really are. In every instance where it’s come up, guys have told me they prefer me without makeup. In instances where my boyfriend has been the one to experiment with light makeup, unless it was for a special occasion like drag I’ve felt extremely weird about it and just didn’t like it.

I also think the higher the man’s Si, the more he can generally tell how much makeup you’re wearing.

Too much makeup imo looks weird on a woman and if I'm dating her and all that is smeared on her face.. it kinda sux. e_e plus I'll know how she really looks eventually one morning, so tons of makeup means she is insecure about her looks / hiding.

Some women I know have freaky long fake nails when I see that I kinda think less of her due to how impractical and kitsch it is. It just sends the wrong message to me at least. Red flags, imo avoid.

[Dr PissBender]

Too much makeup imo looks weird on a woman and if I'm dating her and all that is smeared on her face.. it kinda sux. e_e plus I'll know how she really looks eventually one morning, so tons of makeup means she is insecure about her looks / hiding.

Some women I know have freaky long fake nails when I see that I kinda think less of her due to how impractical and kitsch it is. It just sends the wrong message to me at least. Red flags, imo avoid.

Yeah, can't risk her make up falling on the sandwich after we send 'em to make us lunch while we watch da game huh

[SGF]

Yeah, can't risk her make up falling on the sandwich after we send 'em to make us lunch while we watch da game huh

Kissing a woman with so much makeup on is not the most pleasant experience.

[sbbds]

Too much makeup imo looks weird on a woman and if I'm dating her and all that is smeared on her face.. it kinda sux. e_e plus I'll know how she really looks eventually one morning, so tons of makeup means she is insecure about her looks / hiding.

Yeah, most guys seem to say things along these lines. Guys who really like this stuff (tons of makeup and really flashy and done up) are often weird too, and are few and far between. It doesn’t take a genius to predict what the general consensus is.

Some women I know have freaky long fake nails when I see that I kinda think less of her due to how impractical and kitsch it is. It just sends the wrong message to me at least. Red flags, imo avoid.

Lol, I am the opposite of this. I bite my nails really short. I can’t stand the idea of stuff getting underneath.

[SGF]

I wonder what men consider "too much makeup" to be. I don't run around with green eye shadow and heavy eyeliner on the daily, but I still think some "natural" makeup tutorials use just as many products as I use. Many of them perhaps even use more if they're filmed by an influencer, and these Natural/No-Makeup tutorials often utilize different shades of eye shadow, false lashes, lipstick, blush, concealer, and all. For instance, when asked about her take on the "No-Makeup Makeup Look" in an interview, Dita Von Teese said this:



And I agree with the sentiments tbh. It's still a lot of makeup in the end, just a different aesthetic achieved with much different applications and tools. And I don't think men care about the hard work that goes into makeup, or the expression, and just want a "clean" or "natural" looking aesthetic.

As for the long nails, they're fun. You learn to use them, and they're helpful in a lot of ways. I've maybe gotten acrylics once or twice? Mainly press ons that I would paint myself using weirdo indie colors and file them myself. I'm really picky like that. I would get comments from men, "Oh, my daughter has nails like that and I can't stand it!" but it's just more people to ignore I suppose. "They probably look lovely on her. Have a nice day." I have to keep my nails short since my sister is immunocompromised and I can't risk scratching her when I bath her or smth, but nails are also a fun form of self expression and something to try.

When I kiss her e_e it shouldn't feel / taste like a chemical factory on her face. The makeup can look all "naturell" and this still happens..
I guess women get used to it on their end? My gf did my nails once on one hand for the lulz.. I thought I was suffocating at the fingers. I had to rub it off with diluent in the garage. Idk, if she feels like she needs a lot of makeup for a social event, because it makes her feel good, imo go for it.. but I won't love her any less if she keeps the face-paint to a minimum otherwise. Someone I know once told me that she always carries a red lipstick with her, because putting it on makes her more confident..<_< imo she looked gr8 even after she are it all off her lips. *shrug*

Women with long nails don't do yard or garden work, its unpractical for exercise weak grip due to inability to form a fist , moving around and grabbing things or even for heavy keyboard use if sedentary. Its just always in the way and to me the message conveyed is that she will be whiny and high maintenance, not someone I can be active with, not someone I can take camping on a mountain or rely on to pull her own weight.

EDIT: I'm also sure men don't really care about women's nails. Clean and short-ish is perfectly fine. If women do their nails, its mainly for themselves imo.

[SGF]

Maybe she was buying the cheap shit


I know many women who do have long nails and do garden/yard work, exercise, lift and move things around and what not. As for all other points, I did mention people learn their way around nails and learn to use them to their benefit. They're quite sharp and sturdy so they end up being multipurpose in a way.


As for the latter half of your post, it's a weird thing to nitpick but still a valid opinion. I think people should ask themselves why they hold that opinion of people with nails though. It's most likely due to media. For instance, the SLE dude I grew up with became obsessed with his appearance after he became a teenager, to the point where some people would make fun of him by calling him a metrosexual. But he's pretty humble in many aspects, is very religious, still lives with his family and provides for them financially, knows how to repair things, and is overall a pretty sweet guy. I don't think there's anything wrong with people wanting to look a certain way.



My question was mainly rhetorical (I did not actually mean "men") and I was analyzing standards, society, ways of expression, and such, so it's kind of funny you replied to me with all this. But I mean, yes. A manicure costs like 40-70 USD. Of course people are getting manicures because they genuinely like them.

<.< thats a lot for something that temporary (to me it just looks like wasting money). Anyway IF women think they have to do all this for men.. well guys don't really care about most of it & won't notice in the first place. IF she does it for herself, that's a different story, ppl should do whatever makes them happy imo.

[SGF]

That's an erroneous assumption. There can be an element of "attracting men" but a lot of it has to do with artistic expression. I usually perceive extreme aesthetic displays like super long nails, goth aesthetic, etc. as more tied to the latter.

interesting. I like that idea tbh. So its like an Aurelio Voltaire type of thing, where they are part of a scene and its part of their identity / style. :> big fan of anything Gothic here tbh, although I prefer the more subdued, sort of the "edge of the forest" kind of thing, where realism meets the otherworldly.

[marooned]

i think eyeliner would look wonderful on men

[SGF]

I really don't think he can read. Much of my posts are talking about self expression and achieving specific aesthetics, I don't think I mentioned anything about trying to attract anybody. Just the perception that people have about others who use makeup as a tool for self expression, regardless of the aesthetic achieved in the end.

I just wanted to force my opinion into this thread :3, what your intention was or is doesn't really matter to me.

i think eyeliner would look wonderful on men

Yeah, I agree to that.

[sbbds]

@Nymphaeales re: long nails, I can think some of them look good, and if the woman wearing them looks put-together then I don’t really question the sanitariness of them.

I just remembered that I’m just kind of traumatized by long or painted nails of a specific style or with a specific personality of person being around me, because my mom would often paint her long nails growing up in really tacky colors and often accidentally scratch me or tap them annoyingly on things to get people’s attention. I hate that.

[sbbds]

I know many women who do have long nails and do garden/yard work, exercise, lift and move things around and what not. As for all other points, I did mention people learn their way around nails and learn to use them to their benefit. They're quite sharp and sturdy so they end up being multipurpose in a way.

They’re not uber long though right? The longer they get, the easier it gets to accidentally get one bent backwards or get caught on something, and then cue entire nail getting ripped off and going to the hospital and your soft squishy nail beds bleeding and needing months to heal. Longer + more space underneath = more surface area for bacteria to get on also. It’s almost dangerous to have IMO unless you have really gotten used to cleaning and maintaining them and have a fairly predictable urban lifestyle.

[sbbds]

I just wanted to force my opinion into this thread :3

I thought your input was valid because the entire thread was about the question of whether or not makeup etc is attractive to men anyway.

[SGF]

They’re not uber long though right? The longer they get, the easier it gets to accidentally get one bent backwards or get caught on something, and then cue entire nail getting ripped off and going to the hospital and your soft squishy nail beds bleeding and needing months to heal. Longer + more space underneath = more surface area for bacteria to get on also. It’s almost dangerous to have IMO unless you have really gotten used to cleaning and maintaining them and have a fairly predictable urban lifestyle.

..shit shit shit... STOP... the images in my mind omg. My nails hurt just thinking about what you wrote..

[sbbds]

..shit shit shit... STOP... the images in my mind omg. My nails hurt just thinking about what you wrote..

Yea see ur Si seeking

[marooned]

I've always had this disgust of nails that sometimes was a fascination, but overall it is a disgust. It's that they keep growing and the shapes they form and what they represent (for instance when pridefully grown out), or when they are different lengths/shapes. Sometimes in movies the young heroine will have really long nails of uneven lengths and it's some symbol of unbridled youth or something. I don't know why hair and nails bother me so. I try not to see them, but sometimes I will find myself observing them in disgust, but I don't see this as judging people as I find my own hair and nails most disgusting of all. When guys have long nails I'm usually even more disgusted, and I don't know why knowing a nail is being used as a tool is even more disgusting. Is it that there is something intimate about fingertips? I really have never been able to pin this down. It's not as serious as I'm making it sound.

[sbbds]

I've always had this disgust of nails that sometimes was a fascination, but overall it is a disgust. It's that they keep growing and the shapes they form and what they represent (for instance when pridefully grown out), or when they are different lengths/shapes. Sometimes in movies the young heroine will have really long nails of uneven lengths and it's some symbol of unbridled youth or something. I don't know why hair and nails bother me so. I try not to see them, but sometimes I will find myself observing them in disgust, but I don't see this as judging people as I find my own hair and nails most disgusting of all. When guys have long nails I'm usually even more disgusted, and I don't know why knowing a nail is being used as a tool is even more disgusting. Is it that there is something intimate about fingertips? I really have never been able to pin this down. It's not as serious as I'm making it sound.

Lolololol wtf

Yeah long (even slightly) nails on dudes is the absolute worst trait possible to me. It’s basically on par with being a serial killer.

[gone]

BandD is gay i don't think his view of what makes a woman attractive or not is to be trusted as much, i mean you could still recognize that someone you're not sexually attracted to is/isnt attractive but its still different idk

[Grendel]

Makes one less approachable. So if it's being done with the intent of appealing to others, it's self-defeating.


The artistic expression angle is a different story tho.

[nanashi]

i think makeup on some dudes is attractive, but I like when all people realize they are attractive when confident and that makeup is a choice, not a necessity

[SaveYourself]

I recently put on make up and had a sudden adverse reaction (emotional, not physical). I've been wearing it since I was 12/13 maybe and worn it nearly everyday (except when I wasn't seeing anyone) since I was about 16/17.

I think it's because of modern make up culture and also I've just got used to my bare face during lockdown. Also my skin is better that it's ever been so I need it less. Possibly I'm just sick of watching my 500th youtube tutorial on "cool french girl makeup", trying to chase that effortless beauty that's just good genetics

idk I hate instagram make up where everyone is contouring, strobing and wearing false eyelashes to go to school or work. I don't like the culture of doing your make up to look like a completely different person by the end of it - that's some body dysphoria shit. At girls as young as 13 seem to be doing it rather than playing with glittery lipgloss and blue eyeshadow like I was. Even without the problematic nature of it, most girls don't have the skill / money that influencers have so they end up looking trashy with brown stripes across their cheeks lmao

[Aeris]

To be fair, there is something intimate about breaking the touch barrier. People expect it to feel soft, sometimes calloused... but it doesn't feel like the other person is completely human when it feels like they're scratching or clawing at you, I believe.

It is something worth examining, imo.

Depends. Lots of people seeked my long nails for a back rub or some kind of massage in the past, even just light scratches on the hand. Then again, being very sensitive to pain, I'm particularily delicate in touch. I've only accidently hurt someone with them once in 17 years, and myself twice.
Tho, I guess peeps with brash movements and long nails are be scary.

[marooned]

I think what I find intimate about fingertips is they feel connected to something in the brain that's personal or a secret. They are able to know in this touch way. It's like they are brain cells.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Uhhh I thought I should better try to clarify what I meant, cuz I guess in my last post years ago I sound like a deranged homosexual that hates women. lol

Women in the animal kingdom are NATURALLY/ORGANICALLY very plain. Generally females are plain/average and blend in the shadows and men are colorful and 'stand out.' (like male lions having manes and not female ones, and male mallard ducks and male peacocks and there are a billion other examples etc.) Human females aren't lions of course, but the same concept applies to them as well and most female mammalian species. Make-up on human women therefore helps off-set some of that natural plain-ness, and makes them more noticeable the same way drinking water when your throat is dry helps quenches one's thirst. I don't mean "plain-ness" as an insult btw. I mean its just a fact. It also stems to calling women in society 'basic bitches' and I think true, some women can play that card to bully others (and they are called a 'Karen' or basic bitch as a retailation) but at the same time women by their very nature can't help but be 'basic' or 'plain' in this way.

Obviously, heterosexual competition for mating (Ie what keeps us all alive) is males standing out enough to be chosen as mates. Of course you have to 'stand out' in a way that is also socially approving to a heterosexual woman (ie. you also have to be good at blending in!), just like in contrast a woman usually wears make-up to 'stand out' and combat some of her innate plain-ness.

Maybe you could argue that subconsciously, the gay male at the mall doing a woman's make-up is trying to make her more 'male like' and thus more acceptable to the gay man's eyes (My lesbian friends tease and say all homosexual males are a bunch of misogyinists but I mean, she's kinda being jestful/playful when she says this but sadly a lot of straight women seem to seriously believe this though. sorry =() through the beneficial social lens of getting her to be more attracted to heterosexual males, since being overly plain and blending in too much is theoretically not very attractive as you just completely fade away. It's like bad enneagram 9 disintegration lol. But I'm probably psycho analyzing this too much now. =D

Of course it's superficial beauty. It's important in the sense of attracting a mate and to off-set a woman's natural plain-ness but of course it doesn't mean that a woman isn't beautiful on the 'inside' lol.

What I meant before about liking too much make-up, I guess I stereotypically like some things about drag culture and they use lots of make-up so that's what I meant.

[nanashi]

Uhhh I thought I should better try to clarify what I meant, cuz I guess in my last post years ago I sound like a deranged homosexual that hates women. lol

Women in the animal kingdom are NATURALLY/ORGANICALLY very plain. Generally females are plain/average and blend in the shadows and men are colorful and 'stand out.' (like male lions having manes and not female ones, and male mallard ducks and male peacocks and there are a billion other examples etc.) Human females aren't lions of course, but the same concept applies to them as well and most female mammalian species. Make-up on human women therefore helps off-set some of that natural plain-ness, and makes them more noticeable the same way drinking water when your throat is dry helps quenches one's thirst. I don't mean "plain-ness" as an insult btw. I mean its just a fact. It also stems to calling women in society 'basic bitches' and I think true, some women can play that card to bully others (and they are called a 'Karen' or basic bitch as a retailation) but at the same time women by their very nature can't help but be 'basic' or 'plain' in this way.

Obviously, heterosexual competition for mating (Ie what keeps us all alive) is males standing out enough to be chosen as mates. Of course you have to 'stand out' in a way that is also socially approving to a heterosexual woman (ie. you also have to be good at blending in!), just like in contrast a woman usually wears make-up to 'stand out' and combat some of her innate plain-ness.

Maybe you could argue that subconsciously, the gay male at the mall doing a woman's make-up is trying to make her more 'male like' and thus more acceptable to the gay man's eyes (My lesbian friends tease and say all homosexual males are a bunch of misogyinists but I mean, she's kinda being jestful/playful when she says this but sadly a lot of straight women seem to seriously believe this though. sorry =() through the beneficial social lens of getting her to be more attracted to heterosexual males, since being overly plain and blending in too much is theoretically not very attractive as you just completely fade away. It's like bad enneagram 9 disintegration lol. But I'm probably psycho analyzing this too much now. =D

Of course it's superficial beauty. It's important in the sense of attracting a mate and to off-set a woman's natural plain-ness but of course it doesn't mean that a woman isn't beautiful on the 'inside' lol.

What I meant before about liking too much make-up, I guess I stereotypically like some things about drag culture and they use lots of make-up so that's what I meant.

No. Females are not naturally plain.

Some camouflaged females happen to comprise some species.

This is not the case across the animal universe.

Your post intimates incorrectly that it is the case.

Even non-human sexual camo phenotype aside, you're engaging in

conflation, presuming that what is happening with some species which just happened to evolve that way (but could have successfully evolved many ways) SHOULD happen with humans and therefore does.

[sbbds]

@BandD Don’t you think maybe you just subjectively perceive women as being more plain because you’re a gay guy?

[sbbds]

Also, everybody is just more used to seeing images of women with makeup because of mass media and advertising. Therefore women without makeup look more plain in comparison to those.

In addition, a lot of women get used to applying makeup to cover up blemishes and look more vibrant as a shortcut rather than working on their basic health and skincare.

The combination of these things might make women seem “plainer” than men without makeup. @BandD

[SGF]

Also, everybody is just more used to seeing images of women with makeup because of mass media and advertising. Therefore women without makeup look more plain in comparison to those.

In addition, a lot of women get used to applying makeup to cover up blemishes and look more vibrant as a shortcut rather than working on their basic health and skincare.

The combination of these things might make women seem “plainer” than men without makeup. @BandD

Women compliment me on my skin lol (usually its the "I envy your skin..")
I only use soap tho.. I hope none of them own a skinning knife.

Literal morning routine:

1. Wake up
2. Cold shower with soap
3. Dress & brush teeth + deodorant & hair gel.

This is a wild idea and I know its out there... but maybe all that makeup harms your skin.

EDIT: bored at work..

[sbbds]

Women compliment me on my skin lol (usually its the "I envy your skin..")
I only use soap tho.. I hope none of them own a skinning knife.

Literal morning routine:

1. Wake up
2. Cold shower with soap
3. Dress & brush teeth + deodorant & hair gel.

This is a wild idea and I know its out there... but maybe all that makeup harms your skin.

EDIT: bored at work..

They are talking about your foreskin actually. Never heard of penis envy?

[SGF]

They are talking about your foreskin actually. Never heard of penis envy?

huh, interesting Freud never had foreskin, the rabbi chopped it off to succ on it. Maybe that is the source of all these wild brainlet ideas he had. Childhood trauma.. oy vey.

[sbbds]

huh, interesting Freud never had foreskin, the rabbi chopped it off to succ on it. Maybe that is the source of all these wild brainlet ideas he had. Childhood trauma.. oy vey.

So ur circumcised

[SGF]

So ur circumcised

No. As far as I'm aware outside of religious reasons only in the US do guys get circumcised when they are born. Barbarism. Catholic Hungarians do not circumcise their kids. Amputations and mutilations performed on innocent people without strictly therapeutic reasons are against the moral law.

Also, Freud was a charlatan. He promoted cocaine as a miracle drug capable of curing a wide range of diseases e_e and did more damage to his clients than good among other nonsense for $ and fame. The man's ideas are to be disregarded as absolute trash and its a shame they still persist in the public sphere. Its kinda irritating when I see it used casually.

[sbbds]

Well this thread just took a dark turn. Oops lol

[MissDucki]

There are a couple hills that I will personally die on, this is one of them.

A man or women is going to have to pry my makeup from my cold dead hands. Aint nobody taking that away from me. I love makeup. I felt ugly as a child and tween and people would compliment me when I would wear a little eyeliner. I felt pretty. Especially cause I always had red red cheeks and it made me stick out. I got into makeup as a teen and got really really good at it. I was known for my makeup in high school. I LOVED doing bright makeup like blue, red, purple and orange eyeshadow It made me feel beautiful and it was a really good creative outlet for me cause I had to wear a uniform too so I got to be expressive with my face.

Now, it is still a hobby and I have kind of chilled on the bright eye shadow but I do still love it. I have been wearing more natural colours cause I want to feel like runway model but I am getting into the bright stuff a bit more again.

Anyways, makeup makes me feel confident. If I am ever going to do something that scares me, I put on a full face and I feel confident enough to face it. It's like my war paint. For a lot of my exams, I would go in and wear a full face of makeup because my logic was even if I failed, I looked pretty doing it
I am very comfortable without makeup too. Like I am beautiful either way. I just feel like myself more when I feel that I can dress up and get 'pretty' and face the world. It is really important to me that my man both love me with or without the makeup. I don't want ANY man telling me he wants me without and prefers me to go 'natural' or want to 'take me swimming on the first date'. That's getting a swift kick out the door. BUH BYE! I look good in both dammit.

[Aquamarine]

So I love seeing makeup on other people but hate it on myself. I think it makes me look horrible and it feels like I have a pile of dirt on my face. The first time I wore a full face of make up was for my high school graduation picture. I felt so horrible the whole time and oddly insecure (which makeup seems to do the opposite for other people). I feel more confident without makeup.

The most I probably do is filling in my eyebrows and wearing lip-gloss anything else and I feel I look like a clown.

I just don't have a face that can pull off full coverage makeup...used to make me sad but I've accepted it.

[rose]

Meh.
As a teen, I felt like I had to so I learned to do it and do it well. There's a few years I wouldn't go out without make up because of stress of inadequacy.
I still have some if I want, but it's mostly a stress habit to me. As if I'm trying to hide my lack of social grace behind it. Not like it worked anyway.
My favorite part was lipstick, idk why.
I also wouldn't want of someone who tells me I look better without, like go to hell, you and your stupid opinion.
So long as people enjoy wearing makeup, I don't mind.

[Poptart]

My everyday look is eyeliner + mascara. If I’m going somewhere fancy then I’ll add eyeshadow + bronzer + lip gloss. Sometimes blush. I never remember to fill in my eyebrows.

[Beautiful sky]

None at all on most days