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    Default Brain Types

    There was an interesting diagram I remember that was on the brain types website until they took it down, but it basically it showed body figures explaining this:

    NT:

    Excellent mental ability
    Good verbal ability
    Okay fine motor skills
    Poor gross motor skills

    NF:

    Excellent verbal ability
    Good mental ability
    Good fine motor skills
    Okay gross motor skills

    ST:

    Excellent fine motor skills
    Good gross motor skills
    Good verbal ability
    Okay mental ability

    SF:

    Excellent gross motor skills
    Good fine motor skills
    Okay verbal ability
    Poor mental ability

    Does this sound accurate to you? Also, this is not my idea, I found this on the brain types website years ago so don't shoot the messenger.
    Last edited by Raver; 08-01-2011 at 07:06 AM.
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    I like it. It puts me squarely as an NT and also explains why STs always beat me at video games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    STs always beat me at video games.
    No kidding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Does this sound accurate to you? Also, this is not my idea, I found this on the brain types website years ago so don't shoot the messenger.
    I don't like this idea because it implies that people can be typed by their skills, talents, intelligence quotient, physical abilities, occupation, etc. rather than by how they process information. It leads to simplistic stereotypical typings a la "she's good at sports (excellent motor skills) so must be a Se-ego" or "he is a scientist (excellent mental ability) so must be NT". This is really one of the main pitfalls in typing and this diagram just serves to reinforce such biases. Wrt to accuracy I can recall several examples of people I have known irl who would contradict each category.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Does this sound accurate to you? Also, this is not my idea, I found this on the brain types website years ago so don't shoot the messenger.
    I don't like this idea because it implies that people can be typed by their skills, talents, intelligence quotient, physical abilities, occupation, etc. rather than by how they process information. It leads to simplistic stereotypical typings a la "she's good at sports (excellent motor skills) so must be a Se-ego" or "he is a scientist (excellent mental ability) so must be NT". This is really one of the main pitfalls in typing and this diagram just serves to reinforce such biases. Wrt to accuracy I can recall several examples of people I have known irl who would contradict each category.


    It's wrong, in many senses of the term "wrong", to throw SFs in the "dumb jock" category; I know a Fe-SEI who's great at writing/poetry and is going to a really fancy college and stuff, and shit, I'm too tired to think right now due to bike riding and walking all over the place (fuck yeah for wrecking the rationale behind my own post)

    I remember the LIE FDG talking about climbing massive ass hills on his bike, ones where the SEE me would have to probably hop off the bike and push to make it past...
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    I don't like this. It insults my mental abilities (which are good but not great). It borders on Keirsey levels of innate superiority. NFs are the designed supermen, followed by their ST bros. NTs are nerd stereotypes that don't really exist in the world anymore and SFs are just terrible human beings.

    I'd imagine it's based on a gross misunderstanding (or disingenuous misrepresentation) of the way the brain works. I'd be interested to hear their rationale for this little system.

    I suppose it works for "how things measure up inside", but I'd say my gross motor and verbal skills are equal; if you don't acknowledge that that seems like an apples and oranges comparison.

    Reasoning, planning, mathematics, etc, all things I struggle with (possibly difficult to believe). Understanding arguments, engaging in wordplay, vocabulary, accuracy in describing and understanding the world, associating concepts, etc, etc, I'm all very good at.

    Gross motor skills like articulating and maneuvering my body I'm also good at. I'm one of those people who steps onto a bus and treats it like a jungle gym, or one of those douches who stays standing on a moving train without leaning on anything, just to dare it to get me off balance. I can also be catlike when I'm making a point to be relaxed.

    Meanwhile my fine motor skills are atrocious. My hands quiver and I have a hard enough time writing without wibbling and wobbling everywhere
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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    I don't like this idea because it implies that people can be typed by their skills, talents, intelligence quotient, physical abilities, occupation, etc. rather than by how they process information. It leads to simplistic stereotypical typings a la "she's good at sports (excellent motor skills) so must be a Se-ego" or "he is a scientist (excellent mental ability) so must be NT". This is really one of the main pitfalls in typing and this diagram just serves to reinforce such biases. Wrt to accuracy I can recall several examples of people I have known irl who would contradict each category.


    It's wrong, in many senses of the term "wrong", to throw SFs in the "dumb jock" category; I know a Fe-SEI who's great at writing/poetry and is going to a really fancy college and stuff, and shit, I'm too tired to think right now due to bike riding and walking all over the place (fuck yeah for wrecking the rationale behind my own post)

    I remember the LIE FDG talking about climbing massive ass hills on his bike, ones where the SEE me would have to probably hop off the bike and push to make it past...
    Well, like I discussed with octopuslove, we think that they got the order of the abilities generally correct, however it is misleading because you have to take general intelligence into play, which has nothing to do with Socionics. For example if you take a dumb ILE, he may have decent mental ability with weak verbal, fine motor and gross motor skills, but compared to a smart SEI, they might end up having the same mental ability except the SEI would be vastly superior to him in verbal ability, fine motor skills and gross motor skills as a result of greater general intelligence.

    I think FDG being able to climb massive hills might have more to do with having stronger leg muscles, which has nothing to do with gross motor skills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    If this is true, I think it'd only be good for comparing different abilities within a person, rather than for comparing, say, the mental abilities of an NT with an ST. I'm sure everyone knows an NT who is kind of dumb, and is also not very good at talking, or sports, or resheathing needles...
    Well, I think general intelligence comes into play. So, the fact that NTs have the greatest mental abilities and SFs have the greatest gross motor skills only means that they're mind is designed to order their abilities in that specific way, not that they'll necessarily be strong or weak in something. So if you look at an intelligent NT or an intelligent SF, all of their abilities will move up a notch in strength, however the order of the strengths will remain the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I'm curious - does anyone know why NFs get off so lightly in this description with no "poor" abilities? And why does no type have "poor" fine motor skills? If NFs have poor fine motor skills it all become symmetrical, and SF/NT and NF/ST have complementary skill sets... though I doubt it reflects reality, with the NF musician/artist stereotype.
    Maybe because NFs are just that awesome? Perhaps there is no poor fine motor skills as that is a natural human strength? It would make things symmetrical, but I guess personalities' strengths and weaknesses don't work out that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post

    Maybe because NFs are just that awesome?
    I'm going to go with that... or that the author was an NF
    Haha, I'm just relaying the diagrams on the site into words.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I guess it very vaguely lines up with my experience, although in general the STs I've met have very good mental abilities. The gap between their "excellent fine motor skills" and their "okay mental abilities" is much smaller than, say, the gap between NFs' "excellent verbal ability" and "okay gross motor skills"
    I agree with this.
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    I think NT and ST would have a better mind-body connection, good hand eye coordination and ability to willfully produce action.

    NT's would probably be more slanted towards fine motor abilities and tasks that require thought and precision.

    ST's would probably be more slanted towards gross motor abilities and tasks that require pragmatic observation and manipulation of objects over thought and precision.

    NT's would be more surgical, where as ST's would be more tactile and direct in their manipulation of matter and mechanical movements.

    I think NFs and SFs have a better body-spirit connection, spiritualistic foo-fluff aside, what I mean is a better sense of how their body "feels" naturally, and stunted abilities with willfully producing action from the mind in comparison to ST's and NT's.

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    This is pretty interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I'm curious - does anyone know why NFs get off so lightly in this description with no "poor" abilities?
    I thought exactly the same. Like NFs, STs also have two "good" and no "poor" abilities. That might look like one "club" is more capable than an other. I guess it would have been better if those strengths were shown in a pie chart, this could also show that NTs and SFs are more "specialised" (more extreme scores among the fields) according to these diagrams.

    For me personally, I'd either put "mental ability" or maybe "fine motor skills" first and "gross motor skills" on the last place.
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    I may be stupid, but at least I'm a harder worker and better liked then most people I know. I'm also going through Medical School. . . so I can't be terribly dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post



    I may be stupid, but at least I'm a harder worker and better liked then most people I know. I'm also going through Medical School. . . so I can't be terribly dumb.
    Yellow, general intelligence is not Socionics related. Being an SF doesn't make you dumb, and being an NT doesn't make you smart. All it does is affect how your intelligence is distributed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post



    I may be stupid, but at least I'm a harder worker and better liked then most people I know. I'm also going through Medical School. . . so I can't be terribly dumb.
    Nah, you can be terribly dumb and still go through a full university cycle, up to PhD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post
    I may be stupid, but at least I'm a harder worker and better liked then most people I know. I'm also going through Medical School. . . so I can't be terribly dumb.
    Don't worry. There are enough retarded NTs out there as well. People can be both intelligent and stupid since these terms can be defined differently each time. Also, wisdom is more important imho, and this can be aquired by everyone to some extent.
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    Umm. I've always been shitty at sports, but good in art. I'm a great writer of course, and I most likely have a natural potency in music.

    (For typical gay man ness)

    lol it was embarrassing how bad I was at sports, like 5-year-old girls are better than me. Oh well though. I kick people's ass with writing.

    I probably wouldn't be that bad at archery for some reason, either.... Probably cause the competition is more self-focused/inward and archery requires a lot of focus/concentration which I can be really good in! But throwing the football around with the buddies is like not really my element you know, for many reasons...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    There was an interesting diagram I remember that was on the brain types website until they took it down, but it basically it showed body figures explaining this:

    NT:

    Excellent mental ability
    Good verbal ability
    Okay fine motor skills
    Poor gross motor skills

    NF:

    Excellent verbal ability
    Good mental ability
    Good fine motor skills
    Okay gross motor skills

    ST:

    Excellent fine motor skills
    Good gross motor skills
    Good verbal ability
    Okay mental ability

    SF:

    Excellent gross motor skills
    Good fine motor skills
    Okay verbal ability
    Poor mental ability

    Does this sound accurate to you? Also, this is not my idea, I found this on the brain types website years ago so don't shoot the messenger.
    Yes, i remember the diagram too, but i can't find it anywhere now.

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    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ead.php?t=1444

    This is what Rocky explained long ago:

    THE TOP OF THE MOTOR CORTEX: This controls everything starting from the toes and feet, legs, hips and up through the shoulders.

    The types that are dominant in this region of the cortex are the Empirical Animates (or the Sensory Ethics in socionics). -- SF

    THE MIDDLE OF THE MOTOR CORTEX: This area controls the lower arms, hands, fingers, and eyes.

    The types that are dominant here are the Empirical Inanimates (or the Sensory Logics in socionics). --ST

    THE BOTTOM OF THE MOTOR CORTEX: This is where you control the tongue, lips, jaw and throat areas.

    The types that are dominant in this area are the Conceptual Animates (or Intuitive Ethics in socioniocs). --NF

    NTs are pretty much off the chart.

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    As far as I know, NTs can't really autonomously move their limbs. Stephen Hawking is a good representation of your average (even above average) NT - there's a reason why SF types are their duals, they can control everything, even other people's movements.
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    For me its more along the lines of:


    Mental capabilities>Verbal capabilities>gross motor skills>Fine motor skills.

    My verbal skills are somewhat of a close second. My motor skills are pretty poor though my gross motor skills is miles ahead of my fine motor skills. I have the worst handwriting of anyone I've ever met.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    These correlations are fucking retarded.

    For myself, I'd estimate: Mental > Gross Motor > Verbal > Fine Motor
    Does verbal includes how large your vocabulary or how well your writing style is. Cause in that case I think second place is correct and correlation is less 'retarded'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    These correlations are fucking retarded.

    For myself, I'd estimate: Mental > Gross Motor > Verbal > Fine Motor
    Does verbal includes how large your vocabulary or how well your writing style is. Cause in that case I think second place is correct and correlation is less 'retarded'.
    Well, you mean that the ranking shouldn't be considered as absolute but just relative i.e. I might have better gross motor skills than a SF, yet my mental skills will still be higher. In that case it might make more sense, however the brain types guy had an absolute ranking system in mind IMHO - many people here use "good", "medium", "poor" instead of simply suggesting a ranking.
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    I always score significantly higher on mental aspects of tests than verbal aspects. So I dont think the list is correct.

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    NTs do have gross motor capabilities, it doesn't mean poor capabilites, just there is no strength noticed in the motor cortex. It is poor as in no particular strenght, no part of the body is more fit than the other, like arms stronger, or legs stronger, or the hips, or the lips and tongue and from here all the skills associated with these different parts of the body. Like STs are not at all clumsy, or NFs are the most verbal of types. NTs can be dancers or athletes.

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