Who would be better at mathematics: ENFps or INFps?

[unbornesia]

I'm studying for a maths exam. I just wondered who is likely to be more capable at mathematics, IEE who values Ne-Te (Ti polr) or IEI who values Ni-Ti (Te polr). Intuition and logic () are the functions that are active where maths is concerned, right?
Personally I love it when I get those click moments and figure out what I couldn't before. I'm not a huge fan of maths, physics ugh! I've seen a few IEE's who have gone into engineering and I've heard they often excell in maths. So yeah I'm curious.

[Begoner]

I don't think there would be a substantial difference in their capabilities; most of my math classes have been fairly evenly split between - and - valuers, with perhaps more -valuers. However, I would say that engineering is considerably more amenable to -valuers.

[Aleksei]

I'd say IEI. I've seen xEEs going FUCK MATH! HULK SMASH MATH!

But the relation to type is minimal -- it'd be more related to the cognitive abilities of the given person.

[Aleksei]

I might be confusing cognitive functions for cognitive abilities then..

There are given blindspots for every type, but math can be done through both and .

[Cat King Cole]

Maths ability is a function of early confidence and encouragement.

Same as music abilities and language abilities.

When it comes to pure skills like this, Socionics's exclusive domain is the "voice" of the practitioner. A Si dominant might use maths to quantify the processes and relationships they see around them, for instance, and a Fe dominant would want to make maths as accessible and fun as possible to get to the largest audience.

[Crispy]

If you're asking which function is best associated with pure math (The language of theory) it's . If you're asking who is better/worse than math, it depends on the individuals history more-so than type (Have they read/understood the necessary books/information in their lifetime yet?). If you're asking who has a better affinity to learning math quickly I would guess Thinking types > Feeling types as the main distinction.

[DirectorAbbie]

How one does math is type-related. Being good at math isn't. (Though Ti-PoLRs usually aren't good at math, probably because the most common way of doing math is Ti.)

[Galen]

The smart types.

I might be confusing cognitive functions for cognitive abilities then..

Could be. People seem to make this mistake all the time, but only rarely does someone actually realize it.

[Galen]

Math was one of my best subjects in high school, and the same goes for my other ENFp friend. I wouldn't call that in and of itself type-related.

[Beautiful sky]

This is not type related.

[woofwoofl]

I love being able to use math, it's one of the few things that will make sense, if not the only I have multiplied 4-digit numbers in my head before, though it has made me really dizzy...

Most of my use of math is in the form of cost-benefit analyses I do extensively for almost anything; math does a lot of the work, and then it's like shooting fish in a barrel...

[EyeSeeCold]

The smart types.

So you're saying NT types?

[Absurd]

Did it but didn't and don't see any use for me and I don't dwell on things I don't use.

[Suz]

How one does math is type-related. Being good at math isn't. (Though Ti-PoLRs usually aren't good at math, probably because the most common way of doing math is Ti.)

[Suz]

I think in higher levels of pure mathematics (masters, academics etc.), alpha NTs are heavily overrepresented, not necessarily because they're better at it, but mainly because they're the only ones who derive enough enjoyment out of mathematics to pursue it at that level without any view to practicality.

And obviously, the branch of mathematics makes a massive difference. Someone who is naturally good at 2D geometry is not necessarily going to be good at statistics (e.g. me).

strongly agree with both things you said.

[krieger]

probably Ni and Te. pure math bores Alpha NTs. Ne + Ti is about interpreting symbols, not manipulating them at face value.

Si works pretty well in a more root learning kind of way, though.

alpha NTs are heavily overrepresented, not necessarily because they're better at it, but mainly because they're the only ones who derive enough enjoyment out of mathematics to pursue it at that level without any view to practicality.

dead, dead wrong. sorry.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I'm weak , and basic logic/deductive reasoning was my best area in mathematics.

[woofwoofl]

that's not the right way to solve a math problem dude

[Skeptic]

If you're asking which function is best associated with pure math (The language of theory) it's .

I think in higher levels of pure mathematics (masters, academics etc.), alpha NTs are heavily overrepresented, not necessarily because they're better at it, but mainly because they're the only ones who derive enough enjoyment out of mathematics to pursue it at that level without any view to practicality.



And obviously, the branch of mathematics makes a massive difference. Someone who is naturally good at 2D geometry is not necessarily going to be good at statistics (e.g. me).

And obviously, the branch of mathematics makes a massive difference. Someone who is naturally good at 2D geometry is not necessarily going to be good at statistics (e.g. me).

2D geometry

har diddly har

ANYWAY axioms and postulates internally accepted by the user that found various theories that are built off said assumed truths does seem to glorify Ti (i.e. mathematics). However, there are different ways of approaching mathematics; just because the nature of its structure appears to be Ti oriented does not mean that the approach from any other type from the outside looking in cannot be an adept one. I've no doubt any type can excel at it, but they will no doubt learn and apply it in remarkably different ways... they'll just come up with the same answer as the next type.

[Trevor]

Some personal observations:

Elementary school (grade 5 to 8): Math professor: ESTj(M); best student: INTj(M)
High school (grade 9 to 12): Math professor: INTj(F); best student: ENTp(M).

[FDG]

I was great at maths during elementary school. Then it became progressively more boring.

[Jonathan]

probably Ni and Te. pure math bores Alpha NTs. Ne + Ti is about interpreting symbols, not manipulating them at face value.

Si works pretty well in a more root learning kind of way, though.

alpha NTs are heavily overrepresented, not necessarily because they're better at it, but mainly because they're the only ones who derive enough enjoyment out of mathematics to pursue it at that level without any view to practicality.

dead, dead wrong. sorry.

Interesting point, and valuable coming from an LII. Can you elaborate? So many people think of Ti as synonymous with math, I think because one could see (for example) the set of all theorems within a given universe as a "static" logical structure, and of the different ways of seeing things so as to understand these as a "static" intuitive structure. However, the operations themselves might be seen as dynamic. (In fact, I've come up with a whole new version of Socionics based on static and dynamic elements in math.)

Generally, I envision the kind of person who easily extends his knowledge of a systematic subject as more likely Alpha...say, the person who knows everything there is to know about number theory, group theory, etc. But perhaps a Gamma approach might be envisioning ways to solve some very challenging problems, so there's less emphasis on breadth or context, but more on seeing some way of solving some particular problem that others have missed.

Anyhow, I'm interested in what that means..."interpreting symbols."

...I have an idea of what it might mean, though. If we think of symbols as representing the static structure of mathematical truth, then the interpretation could be seen as a "way of seeing" that structure, a sort of translation Ti -> Ne.

...However, in my theory, if we see the symbols as an arbitrary system (e.g., e.g. just a given, not based on any logical deductions), then this is more a mathematical representation of Fi; so finding the appropriate non-obvious steps to transform between such arbitrary systems would be more of a Gamma operation.

...By the way, while a lot of people see math as a logical thing, I know for a fact that a lot of ethical types are good at math. In particular, I think SF types (both Alpha and Gamma) are often better at calculating things and NTs; they're often more focused at it.

[Minde]

My mother, who I believe is ESTj, does not enjoy math. She's decent in algebra and uses it in things like her sewing, but she when asked she talks about how she doesn't like math and isn't good at it.

My dad, who is INFj or at the least a Delta NF, was a math tutor in college and got half his degree in math (the other half of his double major was psychology). When us kids had math problems in school, he was always the one we went to for help.

And, yet, my mother is the one who balances their checkbooks.



Perhaps this isn't entirely related, but an example of how a ENFp approaches math and science in general:

My sister recently graduated with a pre-med degree. Prior to this she had never really showed any interest in the scientific field(s). She decided to get into medicine because she liked working at hospitals and she wanted to help people. When she began studying things like biology and chemistry she suddenly discovered that the knowledge was fun, too.

Often she'd be sitting next to me as I worked, and every few minutes I'd hear, "This is so cool! Did you know that [...]? And that [this] does [this] to your body?" and then she'd talk about ways it would apply to how we do things everyday. Or, if you want to very simply break it down, she was fascinated by the Te of it all.

When she got to her required statistics class, though, there were times when I really thought she wanted to kill herself or at the least burn the book. Many tears and headaches were had. But she pushed through and with determination and hard work passed with a good grade. Or, if you again want to simply break it down, the Ti of it all wasn't her strength or enjoyment. But she still did ok.

[FDG]

...By the way, while a lot of people see math as a logical thing, I know for a fact that a lot of ethical types are good at math. In particular, I think SF types (both Alpha and Gamma) are often better at calculating things and NTs; they're often more focused at it.

Do you mean in school, or real life? Because I agree if you mean in school, they approach the topic with some real willingness and focus (perhaps thanks to their ethics function?), they care very much about getting all their algebra right. Whereas I personally approach maths in a school setting as if I were approaching it during any other kind of life interaction, that is with a moderate effort mostly linked to emotional or monetary rewards (which usually are nihil for school maths). Yet I usually am the one making all the mental computations in daily interactions with gamma SFs, and they naturally entrust me with such a role.

When she got to her required statistics class, though, there were times when I really thought she wanted to kill herself or at the least burn the book. Many tears and headaches were had. But she pushed through and with determination and hard work passed with a good grade.

Lol jesus I see many feeling types doing this kind of thing with school, that is pushing themselves through emotional breakdowns. It's completely impossible for me to understand. I mean if you don't understand something you decompose it and proceed more slowly. If you can't manage to understand something at all, it's beyond your level and it's better to give up altogether.

[ashlesha]

Math makes me sick to my stomach.

I lack so much confidence when it comes to mathematics & I've always found it to be one of the most boring & difficult subjects in existence. No, seriously. If you were to watch me do a simple equation you'd probably label me as mentally retarded. I hate it. I really wish it wasn't that way.

I much prefer English. I've always found it to be quite easy & enjoyable.

i'm the same. i'm good with other subjects but its like my brain just doesn't process math concepts or something.

[Cat King Cole]

You two are like a case study of why lack of early confidence and encouragement stifles the development of maths abilities, lol.

Seldom is it the case that things are just "beyond your ability", unless there's some specific physical or neurological barrier in place (like bone structure, or a brain lesion).

The absolute "limit" of your abilities is when you get diminishing returns on increased ability or work achieved for expended time and effort. In some cases things like maths, academic reading, or learning an instrument just take an inordinate amount of time and effort to pick up, so you have to decide if you want to spend those personal resources.

[Jonathan]

Do you mean in school, or real life?

I meant in real life, like very quickly calculating the tip in a restaurant or that sort of thing. It's just personal experience though; it may not generalize to other people.

[FDG]

Do you mean in school, or real life?

I meant in real life, like very quickly calculating the tip in a restaurant or that sort of thing. It's just personal experience though; it may not generalize to other people.

Ah, okay, then it doesn't really match mine in this case...