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Thread: self discipline and authority

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    Default self discipline and authority

    I recall rocky and icepick saying that these things are related to Si. Can anyone expand on this? Is recognizing and obeying authority figures and rules a Si thing? And what is it that you're disciplining yourself to do? Is it things like diet and exercise?
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    No no... is anti-authority... if anything, would be authority...



    EDIT: I remember my Mom telling me one time that my sister (an ESFJ) would be much better in the military that me, simply because I don't take orders well and am too anti-authority, so this may relate somewhat...
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    lol oops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    No no... is anti-authority... if anything, would be authority...
    hence the ISTj being called the "model student."
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    is not exactly great at taking orders. i would describe it as a manifestation of or competition for authority, but never as submission to. at least in esxp and i see this in enxj as well.

    istj's can be good students, but i think its because they are organized and not because they are necessarily submissive. they are good at prioritizing and making lists, managing their workload, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    No no... is anti-authority... if anything, would be authority...
    hence the ISTj being called the "model student."
    INFjs and the other Fi dominant type are, at a very HIGH frequency, considered model students.

    thing.

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    I disagree. i think S people of whatever sort are considered "model students", they just make themselves easier remarked and the teachers symphatize with them. oh well

    don't mind me

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    I disagree. i think S people of whatever sort are considered "model students", they just make themselves easier remarked and the teachers symphatize with them. oh well
    Wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    I disagree. i think S people of whatever sort are considered "model students", they just make themselves easier remarked and the teachers symphatize with them. oh well don't mind me
    essers make model studentss because the use their big sensing eyeballs to sense the answer from their neighbor.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    I disagree. i think S people of whatever sort are considered "model students", they just make themselves easier remarked and the teachers symphatize with them. oh well don't mind me
    essers make model studentss because the use their big sensing eyeballs to sense the answer from their neighbor.
    lol! TRU!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    I disagree. i think S people of whatever sort are considered "model students", they just make themselves easier remarked and the teachers symphatize with them. oh well

    don't mind me
    Which is why esfps and estps are commonly referred for ADHD testing.

    I was a "model student". Honor Roll, teacher's pet, helped fellow students understand what the teacher wanted, etc. Of course, I didn't learn a damned thing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    I disagree. i think S people of whatever sort are considered "model students", they just make themselves easier remarked and the teachers symphatize with them. oh well don't mind me
    essers make model studentss because the use their big sensing eyeballs to sense the answer from their neighbor.


    ...I still don't think that a lot of sensors are model students... it really depends on the individual (and I'm not just saying that).
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise

    Which is why esfps and estps are commonly referred for ADHD testing.
    but they still get the best marks, damn
    whichever the methods

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    and ENTps for ADD
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    Default Re: self discipline and authority

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I recall rocky and icepick saying that these things are related to Si. Can anyone expand on this? Is recognizing and obeying authority figures and rules a Si thing? And what is it that you're disciplining yourself to do? Is it things like diet and exercise?
    You don't have Si.

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    I honestly don't know if I do or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise

    Which is why esfps and estps are commonly referred for ADHD testing.
    but they still get the best marks, damn
    wrong

    wow, you're making a string of wrong posts!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise

    Which is why esfps and estps are commonly referred for ADHD testing.
    but they still get the best marks, damn
    wrong

    wow, you're making a string of wrong posts!

    yes they do FDG, they do get the best marks, ISFps too + a few exceptions from the intuitives, such as ENFps, for example and ENFjs probublee

    this what i've noticed among my colleagues

    it's a paradox that NTs are actually the ones that get the lowest marks, in school, (this based on me and other NTs i know)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise

    Which is why esfps and estps are commonly referred for ADHD testing.
    but they still get the best marks, damn
    wrong

    wow, you're making a string of wrong posts!

    yes they do FDG, they do get the best marks, ISFps too + a few exceptions from the intuitives, such as ENFps, for example and ENFjs probublee

    this what i've noticed among my colleagues

    it's a paradox that NTs are actually the ones that get the lowest marks, in school, (this based on me and other NTs i know)
    In my school, of the group of kids who took all of the A.P.-level classes, AT LEAST half of them were ENTPs (and some of the worst students were ENTP as well ).

    Take for example, my Chemistry class (which is very small because few people bother with it). Of what I know, there is one ESFP girl (who sits at my table), her ISFJ friend, and another girl- INFJ. There's an INTP guy, and an ENTJ. Then the last one is an ESFP guy. After that, I could swear that the remaning students are ENTPs (there's about 18 kids in the class).
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    it's a paradox that NTs are actually the ones that get the lowest marks, in school, (this based on me and other NTs i know)
    Actually, most of the NTs I know have been/are honor rolls/best students, except some ENTPs, which just don't do anything, whereas ESFPs are usually okay students IME.
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    I shall add the ENTps and INTps don't even care about grades, they are so careless about school work (in all my life i've identified 3 ENTps and 2 INTps) and they have this in common, the careless attitude.


    Eh, the rest of us INTjs and ENTjs, i think we do care and want that our merits to be recognized, though we only manage to get teachers' disregard or even avesrion (at least how it happened to me). Other INTjs or ENTjs, please comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    Eh, the rest of us INTjs and ENTjs, i think we do care and want that our merits to be recognized, though we only manage to get teachers' disregard or even avesrion (at least how it happened to me). Other INTjs or ENTjs, please comment.
    Most teacher liked me a lot because I understood the material immediatly, but I don't think it's a function of N. I don't care if teacher disregard me; in fact, the more they try to be against me, the more I'll acquire a super-detailed knowledge of the subject in order to pwn them. You know, when you reply to every question/don't do any error, they can't really lower your grade.

    Hell, I had two ENFp teachers which were totally all over me (figuratively), because I was the only N in a class full of S. Sensor teachers were okay with me, they didn't really trust me/liked me but nontheless they had to give me the grade I deserved. They did prefer ESFps and ESTps, I agree, but in the end the grades were the same.

    Here in italy there are a lot of N teachers in high school, and I don't know why the majority of students was S while I was in HS, so naturally Ns were favoured.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
    I shall add the ENTps and INTps don't even care about grades, they are so careless about school work (in all my life i've identified 3 ENTps and 2 INTps) and they have this in common, the careless attitude.
    you are mistaken. while there are probably some XNTps who do not care at all about grades.

    more accurately, at least for me personally, is that i care about most of my grades, but i do not care at all about subjects which i do not care about and am being forced against my will to take. for example, i had a required art class last year which i didnt care about and for which i did no work whatsoever. i nearly failed the class and didnt blink. to date its the lowest mark i've ever procured. english classes are similar; i don't place terrible importance on them and i generally get lower grades than most other subjects.

    on the other hand, getting a similar grade on a math or science test would be a very traumatic experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    you are mistaken. while there are probably some XNTps who do not care at all about grades.
    no, i'm not mistaken, i think you misinterpreted my meaning. it happens, my fault also that i didn't explain in detail, with more words.


    more accurately, at least for me personally, is that i care about most of my grades, but i do not care at all about subjects which i do not care about and am being forced against my will to take.
    exactly, you see, i think it's the p-ness that has that effect on you

    j types are more conscientious. "goal-oriented people" (says the theory)

    Observing myself, say, even if i don't like a subject, i'd still feel guilty if i didn't do my best. it's an inherent sense of duty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    more accurately, at least for me personally, is that i care about most of my grades, but i do not care at all about subjects which i do not care about and am being forced against my will to take. for example, i had a required art class last year which i didnt care about and for which i did no work whatsoever. i nearly failed the class and didnt blink. to date its the lowest mark i've ever procured. english classes are similar; i don't place terrible importance on them and i generally get lower grades than most other subjects.
    i do exactly the same. i can look over my school records and tell you, according to grades, exactly which classes i hated/didn't care about/loved/etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gugu_ baba

    more accurately, at least for me personally, is that i care about most of my grades, but i do not care at all about subjects which i do not care about and am being forced against my will to take.
    exactly, you see, i think it's the p-ness that has that effect on you

    j types are more conscientious. "goal-oriented people" (says the theory)

    Observing myself, say, even if i don't like a subject, i'd still feel guilty if i didn't do my best. it's an inherent sense of duty.
    agreed. i would say that i cannot identify with this as "an inherent sense of duty." ever since my escapade with the art class, i have made a better effort to keep my grades up at stupid subjects, but it is not out of duty, but rather a knowledge that i need to keep grades up in all fields in order to get into a good college, etc. but not because i care, want to know anything, or feel compelled to do so.

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