Psychopaths

[rat1]

Make up your mind – does an environment facilitate it, or does the predisposition "create" a conducive environment?

Regardless, the multitude of subjects who demonstrated the condition from early childhood, despite growing up in a secure, privileged environment with no family members doing the same, contradicts either notion.

I said before, I wasn't going to debate it out, I was just clarifying my position... now to clarify things further, even though I probably shouldn't waste the time.

environment in the first bolded text is talking about the environment external to the self

in the second bolded text, environment is referring to the environment internal to the self

Which is a bit confusing I admit, but those two bolded areas don't contradict themselves.

Also your over attaching to the idea that only an insecure, under privileged environment, with anitsocial family members in early childhood can create a psychopath. I'm not saying the environment has to have X characteristics, I'm just saying the environment could potentially play a role and that I'm unconvinced and skeptical of the notion of it purely being innate.

You need to take your words and water them down to the bare essentials. Correct me if I'm wrong - all you're saying is it's a mix of nature and nurture..? I think you may overemphasize the nurture aspect just based on principle here. Some things do side more with one or with the other.. These brain problems I think are probably more nature. That's just blind speculation on my part.

[strrrng]

That must mean fags are more prone to psychopathy.

lol that's what I thought. Talk about natural selection.

[silke]

... I'm just saying the environment could potentially play a role and that I'm unconvinced and skeptical of the notion of it purely being innate.

and according to some studies it does:

One twin study suggests that psychopathy has a strong genetic component. The study demonstrates that children with anti-social behavior can be classified into two groups: those who were also callous acquired their behavior by genetic influences, and those who were not callous acquired it from their environment.

so evidence for strong genetic influence but it doesn't account for all the cases, thus environment does come into play (and that must have been challenging hunting all these psychopathic twins down)

... the authors report that the people classed as "psychopathic" cannot in fact be seen as a homogeneous group (i.e. as all having the same characteristics), and that the associations between structural changes and psychopathic characteristics do not enable causal conclusions to be drawn. They conclude that psychopathic characteristics involve multifactorial processes including neurobiological, genetic, epidemiological, and sociobiographical (the person's life in society) factors.

hence why "psychopathy" is considered to be a type of antisocial personality disorder where genetics have played a major role and cases where environment is the major factor in development of APD are then classed as "sociopathy"

[strrrng]

and according to some studies it does:

One twin study suggests that psychopathy has a strong genetic component. The study demonstrates that children with anti-social behavior can be classified into two groups: those who were also callous acquired their behavior by genetic influences, and those who were not callous acquired it from their environment.

This differentiates psychopathy from the far more numerous "sociopaths" diagnosed.

Also, ASP ≠ psychopathy OR sociopathy. The latter can be viewed as more of an environmental adaptation, but even then it stretches beyond anti-social, which is what 90% of prison inmates are diagnosed as; whereas, of the psychopaths diagnosed – and roughly 1/4 'don't get caught' – only about 10% are in prison.

hence why "psychopathy" is considered to be a type of antisocial personality disorder where genetics have played a major role and cases where environment is the major factor in development of APD are then classed as "sociopathy"

You're talking about clusters. An analogy would be that there are a handful of planets within a given solar system (or chain). A psychopath will always be antisocial, but the reverse isn't true.

[DividedsGhost]

Just for the record, since he doesn't kill anyone in the movie, it has been argued that the character from American Psycho evinces a psychotic breakdown with or from extreme depersonalization that is expressed throughout the movie. His narcissism and violence is then argued as a direct result of his depersonalization and his attempt to...assert control and a distinct identity, instead of losing control and feeling no sense of 'me' or 'I'.

It would be a big stretch to think this is what a 'psychopath is like'. Depersonalization involves fear and psychopaths are supposed to lack the fearful inhibitions that would cause such a disorder (supposedly from what I understand of dissociative disorders, so fuck off if you're going to whine and nit-pick like an annoying grandma for your own amusement).

[DividedsGhost]

A psychopath will always be antisocial, but the reverse isn't true.

That's not true. Just because someone lacks certain inhibitions that others lack revolving around certain empathetic responses (what we could refer to as psychopathy) doesn't automatically make them APD in the sense of the DSM.

What I mean is how one is treated and how one lives their life is also going to have as much of an effect. Unfortunately, since it's a competitive world where we're expected to take or struggle for what we want, I imagine someone with psychopathy most likely will develop APD.

[strrrng]

That's not true. Just because someone lacks certain inhibitions that others lack revolving around certain empathetic responses (what we could refer to as psychopathy) doesn't automatically make them APD in the sense of the DSM.

That is hardly all there is to psychopathy.

APD

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

Find me one psychopath who doesn't exhibit a majority of these behaviors.

Which leads back to the same point: many criminals develop these behavioral patterns in response to traumatic environments, etc.; psychopaths exhibit them as a natural outgrowth of a deeper-rooted psychic condition.