EIE-IEE Quasi-Identical Relations (ENFp & ENFj)

[pianosinger]

Sounds like you're learning something my father-in-law also had to learn the hard way...wealthy people are STINGY. A "poor" person requesting the same services would have been much more obliging and willing to pay the price. Backwards, huh?

[JuJu]

Thank you for the responses everyone!!

Personally, what I attributed to his Fi - maybe erroneously, but it didn't feel that way to me at the time - was the reason why he refused to pay: "my son didn't like it." As if that's a valid reason not to pay what you owe - that's disgraceful in my opinion.

I agree with the other sentiments though... The bottom line was: this man was in it for himself. (Since then, I've been told by others that he's always in it for himself.) Also, he's not a person of his word.

I have had major misunderstandings with my ENFp step-brother - they've been so major that we don't really talk, even though we're quasi-related - however, I think that he's a man of his word.

I don't believe this behavior is representative of all ENFps. I just thought that this particular guy's excuse regarding his "son not liking it," and thus "it's not worth anything," was Fi skewed horribly.

[Blaze]

I would more likely shell out the money while criticising myself for not being clear enough in what my son would want and not being clear enough to ya'll. And if you had given me what I had ordered, but it had showed flaws in my son's performance, well, that reflects on my son, not ya'll.

I may have mentioned in passing that my son hadn't like it. I may be frustrated at the waste of money. But I'd still be paying the fee because your people had done the requested work, and I, personally thought it was good work.

This is exactly what I would have done. IEEs don't just throw out Fi. They also consider possibilities and different scenarios, so I don't see how this would be IEE behavior. I think it could be any type who wants to get out of paying or who misunderstood something.

In any case, I hope you can resolve it!

Wow sounds exactly like a delta-beta debacle.

When IEE gets some Te factor in their head (read: money saving deal) they cannot be reasoned with due to their misguided apprehension of business and money.

It's like talking to a wall.

Misguided apprehension of business and money?

I have absolutely no idea of what I was thinking here WTF?? Retracted.

Stand by the small claims advice tho.

[pianosinger]

I don't believe this behavior is representative of all ENFps. I just thought that this particular guy's excuse regarding his "son not liking it," and thus "it's not worth anything," was Fi skewed horribly.

Understood. And you may have a point. But then, who does want to pay for something he doesn't like? Of course he should still pay. Especially after continuing to request services even after the fact. For all you know, the son likes it just fine and the guy's just being a wheeler-dealer.

[Nico1e]

Yeah, the only comment I have to say about this is 'Rich people are crazy.' Not all rich people, but a lot of them, especially if their entire family is socially powerful and well known, and the kids were born into that lifestyle. And, sorry if there are any rich people here. But this kind of thing happens, I've seen it. They really do often think that they can demand whatever they want, and get it, if they were born into a family that was already wealthy, and if they don't understand how a person becomes wealthy.

[JuJu]

@ pianosinger

I agree with you. In my opinion, however, I think that brings up an even more interesting Socionics-related idea: where does the influence of type/information processing end, and where does the influence of 'everything else' begin?

As someone who loves to think about Socionics, that particular concept fascinates me.


@ n1cole:

You are absolutely right, in my opinion -- I have noticed that too. Personally though, I'll put a clause on what you said: when I've dealt with super-rich people -- people who could give a damn about what they pay for, like major players here at MassMutual (a fortune 100 company in my city,) they're cool, pay on time, give no hassle. Smile on the streets and say "hello," etc. Personally, I've noticed that it's the people in the level or two under this -- rich, but not all the way -- who feel entitled to discounts, and entitled to act like douches, in general.

I first noticed this when I went to prep school at Lawrence Academy... The Saudi princes were as nice as could be about money, and paying ppl well for their efforts. The sons of rich folk several levels down -- the sons of bankers, sons of lawyers, etc -- could, on occasion, act like d-bags about money... And I'm finding the same outside of high school.

[JuJu]

P.S. Blaze: small claims was a great idea -- THANK YOU!

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't get why you are labeling his affection for his son as 'Fi'. I think you are correct to not label it too quickly as that. He just really loves him. You've always been a type of person where you're just really focused on your image and business. Most people aren't like that. Well a lot of people aren't.

You break hearts for your self-image and job. You've admitted to it as much. That person breaks other people's self-image and jobs for their heart. But in the end, everybody's heart gets broken since for you , there's no dichotomy.

Are you the bad guy or is he? Well I don't know if that's simple. It just reminds me of what I think is the oldest conflict in the book, the war between somebody's self-image and how they actually are treating other people. When we're so focused up on our own self-image (what a business has to do to stay successful though so I'm not attacking you as I understand where ur coming from completely) we can lose our ability to connect with people.

You hate doing things for other people without getting anything in return yourself, but that's how other people judge our real love.

I think you shouldn't be so hung up on your own self image but then again I think he should just leave you alone and go elsewhere to somebody he's more emotionally compatible with. =/

If you want to stay in good relations with him and want his future money then I think u will just have to be nice to him even if it kills you. God I don't know how sales people do it. I couldn't be fake like that omg poor salespeople.

[mikemex]

From what you describe it seems like you're dealing with your IDENTICAL (EIE) and you dislike him so much because he's totally opposite of what you expect from others (dual).

[lkdhf qkb]

You also have to be extremely careful with any kind of critism [towards EIEs] too. They are hypersensitve about themselves (ENFPs can be too).
Ultimately when you have two hypersensitve people hanging too close it becomes too much to deal with and so you have to separate for a time or spend alot of time clarifying what you meant.

That's my personal experience too, and why I prefer not to be close to EIEs. I think it's always better to remember that it's not the person, but the relationship Here what Gulenko says about it:

Communication between two "Passionate" (ER) types.
In such highly communicative pair petty accusations against each other cannot be avoided. Each will try to affect the other in an extroverted manner, but neither of them gives way. It will seem to both of these partners that the other does not understand them, so there will be a strong desire to sort out relations. However, any attempts to prove one's correctness to the other partner usually lead to nothing. Due to this, conflict does not fade for a long time. In contact with their environment, both compete in the emotional impact on it. Such a pair is easily made to quarrel, since the emotional excess in it must find an outlet. In the case of defending mutual interests against external encroachments the coordination of joint activities is complicated. Reaching equilibrium in communication for the long term in this pair is unrealistic.

[BrainlessSquid]

My experience with quasi-identical is pretty good. My favorite teacher in school was an EIE and we had a pretty much platonic friendship, she always appreciated my insights and motivated me to develop my skills. Once someone mentioned me when talking to her and she cried remembering me, I don't know why but probably she got emotional with all the good memories.

I also find their output pretty interesting in general

[EUDAEMONIUM]

These are probably the top 3 worst intertype combinations irl lol. I have gotten along with IEEs fine, but when it goes wrong it's bad.

There were two I worked with at my old job, they were both friends with one another. I got along with one of them completely fine and we were pretty good friends.

The other got offended by everything I said, argued with me constantly, and was openly arrogant and rude toward me.

My track record with SLIs is better than with IEEs.

[Rebelondeck]

Superficially, Quasi-identical partners seem to understand issues or situations to an equal degree of clarity but how they go about resolving them shows that their priorities, direction and methodology can be radically different so there's often doubt as to whether or not they actually understood things similarly. They can banter with one another about trivial subjects, but after several hours, many tend to find each other rather tiring or irritating - and working together for extended periods can become absolutely painful for more than a few. They can be good acquaintances or neighbours but they're as bad as Mirrors for their inability to agree on what to do.

a.k.a. I/O