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Thread: Shy Extraverts and Social Introverts

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    Default Shy Extraverts and Social Introverts

    Just saw pianosinger's thread about unimaginative intuitives and imaginative sensors and thought it would be a good idea to start a thread about this.

    There are some extraverts that can be shy and can appear introverted and usually they tend to be intuitives. Also there are introverts that can be talkative and can appear extraverted and usually they tend to be sensors.

    Anyways, I think this is why it can make it more difficult to type yourself because then you have to look at the functions to figure out what you really are rather than your social behaviour, and in the end functions are merely metaphorical representations of actual cognitive functions.
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    I can appear shy when around ESEs.

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    ESFp and ESFj are more introverted than others E
    hmm Extroverted introverts can be ISFj

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    Note that socionics introtim/extrotim has little to do with the vernacular usage of introversion/extroversion.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...haracteristics

    A common misconception, also compounded by some interpretations of MBTI or even of Jung's typology, is that extratims are extraverted as in "socially outgoing", and intratims are introverted as in "socially reserved".
    Roughly speaking, Jung's interpretation of extroversion/introversion is:

    Extroversion- Oriented predominately by the outer world, with psychic energy tending to flow outward.
    Introversion- Oriented predominately by the inner "world", with psychic energy tending to flow inward.

    It has also been regarded as objective/subjective and object/relation. At any rate, it is so that orientation of the psychic energy does not create hard lines of outgoing/reserved, so outgoing introverts/reserved extroverts is perfectly feasible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    Note that socionics introtim/extrotim has little to do with the vernacular usage of introversion/extroversion.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...haracteristics

    A common misconception, also compounded by some interpretations of MBTI or even of Jung's typology, is that extratims are extraverted as in "socially outgoing", and intratims are introverted as in "socially reserved".
    Roughly speaking, Jung's interpretation of extroversion/introversion is:

    Extroversion- Oriented predominately by the outer world, with psychic energy tending to flow outward.
    Introversion- Oriented predominately by the inner "world", with psychic energy tending to flow inward.

    It has also been regarded as objective/subjective and object/relation. At any rate, it is so that orientation of the psychic energy does not create hard lines of outgoing/reserved, so outgoing introverts/reserved extroverts is perfectly feasible.
    Yes

    I find Delta Extratims to be the least extroverted out of all Extratims in general, and Beta Introtims to be the most outgoing of all Introtims in general, though SEIs are pretty outgoing at times... I get a bit less outgoing in winter months, and that's probably due to the change of seasons...
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    ESFp and ESFj are more introverted than others E
    this is supposed to read the exact opposite way, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    Note that socionics introtim/extrotim has little to do with the vernacular usage of introversion/extroversion.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...haracteristics

    A common misconception, also compounded by some interpretations of MBTI or even of Jung's typology, is that extratims are extraverted as in "socially outgoing", and intratims are introverted as in "socially reserved".
    Roughly speaking, Jung's interpretation of extroversion/introversion is:

    Extroversion- Oriented predominately by the outer world, with psychic energy tending to flow outward.
    Introversion- Oriented predominately by the inner "world", with psychic energy tending to flow inward.

    It has also been regarded as objective/subjective and object/relation. At any rate, it is so that orientation of the psychic energy does not create hard lines of outgoing/reserved, so outgoing introverts/reserved extroverts is perfectly feasible.
    I'm aware of this, but it can be trickier to determine if an introvert was shaped at young childhood to be more energized by the outer world, and an extrovert was pressured at young childhood to be more energized by the inner world. I guess you could say these people are at the cusp as a result of the environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    ESFp and ESFj are more introverted than others E
    this is supposed to read the exact opposite way, right?
    big mistake from me, time to go sleep


    here I found quite interesting information
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ht=extraverted

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungAndAware View Post
    I'm aware of this, but it can be trickier to determine if an introvert was shaped at young childhood to be more energized by the outer world, and an extrovert was pressured at young childhood to be more energized by the inner world. I guess you could say these people are at the cusp as a result of the environment.
    I have little doubt that personality is shaped by both inborn tendencies and environmental interference but I can't be sure to what extent. At any rate, I understand what you are saying, but you specifically mentioned "shy extroverts" and "social introverts". Perhaps I am wrong, but I'm not sure if orientation by outer or inner world can be related to shyness or sociability. That is, I'm not sure if an introvert being socially outgoing will indicate that he is more shaped by the outer world as you are saying here. It could be that he is still shaped by the inner world as much as any other introvert, and he is just more outgoing. Is the gradation of introversion/extroversion tied to the level of sociability one portrays? Eh, maybe, but even still, one shouldn't judge introversion/extroversion by whether he is shy or outgoing.

    Gulenko, it seems, believes that the level of sociability an individual has is more related to subtype. I'm not sure if I believe that, and I certainly don't agree with making even more dichotomies, but here it is. Contact/Distance, he calls it.

    The post pianosinger posted that Anglas linked to might also be valuable, but still not 100% accurate in all cases.

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    I've noticed that a number of LSI I know tend to be social, or at least far more social than myself and most LII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungAndAware View Post
    I'm aware of this, but it can be trickier to determine if an introvert was shaped at young childhood to be more energized by the outer world, and an extrovert was pressured at young childhood to be more energized by the inner world. I guess you could say these people are at the cusp as a result of the environment.
    I have little doubt that personality is shaped by both inborn tendencies and environmental interference but I can't be sure to what extent. At any rate, I understand what you are saying, but you specifically mentioned "shy extroverts" and "social introverts". Perhaps I am wrong, but I'm not sure if orientation by outer or inner world can be related to shyness or sociability. That is, I'm not sure if an introvert being socially outgoing will indicate that he is more shaped by the outer world as you are saying here. It could be that he is still shaped by the inner world as much as any other introvert, and he is just more outgoing. Is the gradation of introversion/extroversion tied to the level of sociability one portrays? Eh, maybe, but even still, one shouldn't judge introversion/extroversion by whether he is shy or outgoing.

    Gulenko, it seems, believes that the level of sociability an individual has is more related to subtype. I'm not sure if I believe that, and I certainly don't agree with making even more dichotomies, but here it is. Contact/Distance, he calls it.

    The post pianosinger posted that Anglas linked to might also be valuable, but still not 100% accurate in all cases.
    I agree with you on the fact that sociability and extraversion/introversion are not necessarily compatible if only slightly. I also think subtypes just complicate things further unnecessarily and aren't required.
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    producing subtypes are more extraverted than accepting subtypes.

    Maybe that's got something to do with it...?

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    I'm shier and more withdrawn than a lot of introverts I know, I need to spend a lot of time by myself doing 'nothing' (= zoning out into intuition) but I'm sure I'm an extravert. The introverted people I know always seem to hold back in discussion, while I'm very upfront about what I think and feel and if I don't talk to you it's because I don't want to. I don't wait for the initiative of other people for social contact. I'm 'what you see is what you get' in that way, and I don't appreciate people trying to get me out of my shell. I do that when I want(once a week lol), no help needed thanks
    I rarely feel alone. I rarely talk to anyone, yet in my head i have the most amazing, the most fantastic discussions with the people in my life. In real life, what most people talk about is several orders of magnitude lesser than their inner experiences. Most people never reveal the singularity of their subjective experience.
    Maybe I should learn to explore other people's consciousness. Maybe I should aim for a real space between me and others. Instead of cultivating monologues and fantasies. It's hard, but the alternative to this seems to be madness. ~ lkdhf qkb

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    I have a lot of moments of dissociation and contemplation everyday but once I start talking sometimes I just never shut up. We could talk the whole day and maybe until tomorrow. I actually enjoy talking, it just depends on the topic. Sometimes when buying something I would talk more to the seller. At work I talk a lot in meetings when needed. When people ask me anything I just answer and ask questions back.

    If I know how to small talk I totally would. Nothing comes out though and clam up when I have to talk about my life or other people's lives. I am at lost what to ask and talk about.
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    Well, I'm an introvert that likes to debate and enlighten, to give clues and pieces to the larger puzzle, to work out potential and dragon serpentine long plots to archive how the many database references all stack into 1 for the big show, like putting ice cubes into Coca Cola for the level to rise, even if the analysis is not as happy or branching as signature polarity in the eyes of those using intuitive and feeling would explode beyond the pinch of overgrowth over.

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    lol I’ve never known anyone irl to call me extroverted, everyone usually talks about how introverted I am. My eldest daughter and I have talked about how there are extroverted introverts and introverted extroverts. According to my kiddos I’m an introvert-introvert

    I can occasionally be pretty talkative when I’m in the right mood and I’m enthusiastic about something, around people Im comfortable around. Usually though I do like to be around people, just not talk that much or socialize. I like to people watch and just not be lonely I guess...so yeah...what I would call a group oriented introvert introvert
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    I'm not shy but I can have paranoia in non concrete ways. Shyness is about having uncomfortable feelings of personal judgment whereas paranoia is the fear of external person/circumstances.


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    really if you think about it, it could correspond to dcnh with extroverted introverts having a extroverted subtype and introverted extroverts having an introverted subtype. Introverted introverts would be introverts with N or H and so on...

    thoughts? Maybe someone already mentioned it. I didn’t read the whole thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    @aster, that is a good point - does the dichotomy of contact/distance play a part? so that would be the N - H subtypes.

    the socionika website considers sociability in its descriptions of introversion/extraversion - I thought it was interesting:



    These features are based on the attitude to the perception of information: object and subject. For extroverts, I am one of the objects of this world; for introverts, I am the subject around which the world is built.


    Quite often, these signs are confused with such qualities as sociability - unsociability. However, sociability is essentially a contact, the ability to easily and quickly converge with people. These qualities are largely determined by the attributes of logic-ethics. On average, ethicists are more sociable than logicians.


    An unsociable extrovert tends to observe the world from the outside, noticing everything that happens, but not coming into contact with people. A sociable introvert may have intense contact with people, either because they are included in his subjective world, or because he needs information that is directly relevant to his subjective world.


    For another thread: What do the logicians have to say about the bolded part
    ahhh yeah and that’s a good point about ethical types being more sociable, didn’t think about bringing that into this myself.
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    Social interaction or shyness has more to do with self-confidence or the lack thereof than it does type. Being Ij, I most definitely need my alone time but I've never been shy or a recluse. When under stress, many Ejs will go quiet and isolate. Ips may often duck certain company but their rationalization processes really do need people stimulus. Eps seem to socialize well but only on their own terms and will sometimes need to get away from people. Humans are social animals and need interaction even if it's simply watching what's happening. The terms extravert and introvert aren't really applicable to information processing; terms like externally and internally-referenced processes would perhaps be less ambiguous when determining one's type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    really if you think about it, it could correspond to dcnh with extroverted introverts having a extroverted subtype and introverted extroverts having an introverted subtype. Introverted introverts would be introverts with N or H and so on...

    thoughts? Maybe someone already mentioned it. I didn’t read the whole thread
    I'm LII-C and I think I'm socially introverted but I didn't notice any other LIIs in my environment so I'm not sure.

    I think most researchers (except LIE) are socially introverted. It depends on many factors. I am an active participate on the Internet but I hardly ever speak in real lives since I don't share many common interests with the people in my environment.

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    Just colloquially I'm more or less ambiverted and have no problem yapping away with the Uber driver or whatever if I'm in the mood. Prob set apart as more socially introverted based on the fact that things like interviewing (or having prospective new tenants walk through my space, like today, ugh) are uniquely and distinctively anxiety provoking.

    I like to go out for energy but then after awhile I need to go home to replenish energy- crazy

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    I'm narcissistically very introverted lol. Even simply saying 'hi' in real life sometimes can feel like I'm climbing mt. Everest in effort & exhaustion. lol it's pretty bad.

    I don't think it has anything to do with confidence- I just think it appears that way. Even when I'm feeling very confident- I don't really want anything to do with anybody else. Unless they appreciate my own identity or something. I think introverts are very self-absorbed in a way- I don't believe that feel good crap that we're 'more giving' or whatever. We don't know how to be giving enough- that's the problem and why we have social problems. It's really quite obvious. As a demonic introvert, I have to constantly tell myself 'oh it's not about me here. Okay!' (pretends to be socially engaged) With extroverts it comes naturally and they are naturally charged by other people.

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    I come off as introverted in the being, but once I'm comfortable I tend to be more extroverted.
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